Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike Halliday on February 29, 2008, 05:44:45 pm
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how does you price for leather compare to fabric suites?
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I tend to price the same as fabric suite at the moment as the cost of the chemicals cost about the same as running the T.M for 1 & 1/2 however with Pauls training im looking into putting the price up and will be able to do a leather suite quicker.
Do you charge more for Leather ??
Paul
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Paul I'm planning a radical increase in my leather cleaning price but at the moment I'm at £150 which is £20ish more than fabric.
Mike
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i will charge £226.00 for a typical clean and protect on leather 3 piece, if all the cusions are detatchable i charge more, an extra £10 per seating unit
i do quite a lot of leather these days cause i find most people cant be bothered to use the kit they got when they bought the suite
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I'm reading this post with tears in my eyes I struggle getting a oner for fabric or leather
John
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Colin,
How can you justify £226.00 to clean and protect a leather suite. I mean it's only a couple of hours work, tops?
Don't get me wrong, if you can get that sort of money they why not, but surely such a high price scares more people off. Does that £226 include vat or is that extra?
Simon
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about 170 for 3+2+1, I cant speak for Colin but I'm not here to justify my prices, if his customers are willing to pay that price for a professional service then that's all the justification needed in my opinion.
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Some call it CONFIDENCE others call it BRASS NECK others still call it ...................something else.
rob
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The thing is that most leather upholstery has fixed seating so it is quick and easy to clean but I find that they do tend to be in quite a state before they have it cleaned and also they also ask about colour repair as if you are going to get the felt tips out!
Shaun
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Where is Colin based in the country PROFILE DON'T SAY.
CHEERS TONY
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Tony I think Colin lives around us, york or whitby, I think.
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Colin is in Blackpool.
Shaun
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well there you go!! he lives in the land of the rich & famous ;D ;D ;D
no wonder he gets such a good price
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He seems to be getting good price I'm about £20 more than you Mike average leather suite find the small repairs like that one you showed on the other post pay real well though.
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This was a three quarter day work for $955.
I base my quote from pictures email from enquiries.
Otherwise my first hour visit on location just to look is $299 and every additional hour is $99.
Read our correspondence by email from the bottom up.
Question and I will answer the best I can.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
www.f.com
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It is on the attached email 604 - - - - - - - -
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From: Roger [mailto:info@leatherdoctor.org]
Sent: Fri, February 2, 2007 1:11 PM
Dear M - - - - - -,
Thanks for the info.
Do I have your phone number just in case I am lost?
Thanks again
________________________________________
From: L - - - - - , M - - - - - -[mailto: - - - - - - -@gov.bc.ca]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 7:48 AM
Hi Roger, we live at far end of - - - - - - - - - - - . The exact address is - - - - - - - - - We will be paying by Visa. The billing name is - - - - - - - - - -
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From: Roger [mailto:info@leatherdoctor.org]
Sent: Thu, February 1, 2007 6:35 PM
Dear M - - - - - -,
Yes I can block that date for you.
May I have the address please and also please indicate the mode of payment.
Who to Bill to in the invoice?
Thank you.
________________________________________
From: L - - - - -, M - - - - - - [mailto: - - - - - - - @gov.bc.ca]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 12:50 PM
Hi Roger I would prefer you attend 19FEB07 as we are having some other work done on the 12FEB07 which may impact the cleaning. Are you available on 19FEB07?
THX M - - - - - -
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From: Roger [mailto:info@leatherdoctor.org]
Sent: Thu, February 1, 2007 11:01 AM
Dear L - - - - -
I apologize for not replying earlier as I have already made mental arrangement to be at your place this coming Monday while your husband is in.
I will be there Monday 5th of February, in the morning between 9 and 11 depending on traveling condition and locating your place.
Monday 5th of February, in the morning between 9 and 11 depends on traveling.
May I have the address please and also please indicate the mode of payment.
Who to Bill to in the invoice?
Thank you.
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From: L - - - - - , M- - - - - - [mailto: - - - - - - - - - - - @gov.bc.ca]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:22 AM
I have not received an email response. Are you interested in providing the service or should I approach another company?
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From: L - - - - - , M- - - - - -
Sent: Mon, January 29, 2007 3:52 PM
Hi Roger, I would like you to provide all the services except the leather scent. My husband is available every Monday. Can you give me a date and timeframe for completion.
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From: Roger [mailto:info@leatherdoctor.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:01 AM
Hello M - - - - - -,
Re: Leather Chaise Sectional
Repairs to the three areas = $295
Optional Degreasing, Preconditioning, Super Preconditioning or Spotting = $175
Cleaning = $235
Recommended Rinsing = $125
Recommended Buttery Feel, Squeak, Rub & Non-Stick Conditioning = $125
Optional Leather Scent = $125
For further information call 604 468 2340, Roger
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For your reading:
Pigmented Leather Abrasion Repair
Mild abrasion on pigmented leather is where the color and top finish has been scraped from the skin. Deep abrasion is where there are missing fibers and rough edges sticking out as flaps. Procedures to repairs are first cleaning up the panel to reveal the true color for color and sheen matching and paying attention to abraded areas for grease or other contamination. Leather repair to flaps are reattached back to the leather with a leather bond and loose abraded surface grains are tighten up by a leather impregnator to build back its skin. Color and top coat repair to both abrasions require a primary pigment color, a secondary color if any and a protective top coat. Matching to all three finishing aspects is vital for an aesthetic repair.
A Safe and Effective cleaning:
The average leather has a pH value of between 3 and 5. A weak alkaline cleaner above pH 7 to pH 10 may cause streaks to sensitive pigment. A moderate alkaline pH 11 to pH 12 will result in stickiness and gumminess. A very strong alkaline pH 13 to pH 14 will dissolve the leather. Leather pH balanced cleaner provides the safety, while cleaning effectiveness depends on cleaners' surfactant concentration or polarity. When cleaning any leather our primary consideration is to use leather pH balanced cleaner equivalent to that of leather.
Spots & Stains Removal:
spotter™ pH 4.6 is leather safe pH 4.6 super spotter eight times more effective than the super preconditioner developed to tackle stubborn stains effectively.
It acts like a solvent type spotter to penetrate deep into the leather and remove unwanted hard-to-remove stubborn stain. Designed to allow sufficient "dwell time" for complete emulsification, de-flocculation and suspension to occur. It further works in harmony with the tanning agent, fatliquor, dyestuff and finishes.
Heavy Duty Preconditioning:
superCleaner4.0™ is leather safe pH 4.0 super preconditioner developed for extra tough soiling. Also used to remove blue jeans dye transfer and newsprint on pigmented leather. It acts like a solvent type cleaner to penetrate deep into the leather and remove unwanted hard-to-remove grease-based soil. Designed to allow sufficient "dwell time" for complete emulsification, de-flocculation and suspension to occur. It further works in harmony with the tanning agent, fatliquor, dyestuff and finishes.
Degreasing:
deGreaser4.1™ is leather safe pH 4.1 degreaser primarily used on long term, problematic, heavy build-up body oily & greasy soil. These ingrained body oil and harmful alkaline perspiration residue in high wear areas can cause deterioration, color-loss, worn-out, discoloration, delaminating or cracking to surface finish. Remember, age sets spots and stains. Prolong soiled damages through hydrolysis and oxidation may be more obvious after cleaning.
Preconditioning:
preCleaner3.7™ is leather safe pH 3.7 preconditioner developed for heavy soiling prior to cleaning to reduce unnecessary harsh mechanical agitation. Designed to allow sufficient "dwell time" for complete emulsification, de-flocculation and suspension to occur. It further works in harmony with the tanning agent, fatliquor, dyestuff and finishes.
Cleaning & Relaxing:
leaner3.8™ is leather safe pH 3.8 aqueous leather cleaner ‘n relaxer. As the pH value of leather is between pH 3 and pH 5 this cleaner is leather pH balanced to work safely in harmony with its tanning agent, dyestuff, fatliquor and finishes. It is developed for safe and effective cleaning for all types of leather. Designed for effective soil penetration, lubrication and suspension through chemical reaction without the negative effect commonly associated with soap, alkalinity and solvent ingredient cleaners.
Acidifier Rinsing:
rinse3.0™ is leather safe pH 3.0 mild acidifier ‘n rinse. Developed to neutralize and minimize harmful alkaline and perspiration residues. Reduce leather surface stickiness to a squeaky clean. It is further designed to re-strengthen the leather pH integrity, stabilize the tanning agent, dyestuff and fatliquor.
Buttery Feel Conditioning:
The sensuous surface touch of leather can be improved, enhanced and modified towards a special tactile fashion effect with a fine leatherScent’B™.
Squeak Conditioning:
Since most leather squeaks comes from leather rubbing against leather during movement. To reduce the friction and eliminating leather squeaks. We mist spray leatherScent’B™ entirely with special attention to where the squeak comes from.
Rub Conditioning:
A soft lubricated surface with leatherScent’B™ further improves the physical performance like rub, abrasion and scuff in high wear areas where loss of color eventually is inevitable through neglect.
Non-Stick Conditioning:
A non-stick conditioning with leatherScent’B™ is essential to shield the detrimental effects of sticky soiling from chewing-gum, sticky-tape, sparkles, etc.
Leather Scented Conditioning:
A once classic and rare fragrance that transcended gender with an ultimate intimacy associated with sensuous leather. Today, leather scent are created in the form of body cologne and perfume by the perfume houses of HELMUT LANG®, CHANEL® and SERGE LUTENS® to satisfy the olfactory crave of the seductive leather scent. leatherScent'B™ helps mask body odor with an unforgettable leather scent.
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Here is the damage pictures.
M- - - - - - L- - - - -
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----- Original Message -----
From: Roger
To: - - - - - - - - - -
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 2:39 PM
Hello M - - - - - - -,
I receive only one picture without the detail to damages to three areas.
Roger 604 468 2340
________________________________________
From: Y - - -[mailto:- - - - - - - -@telus.net]
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 10:50 AM
To: info@leatherdoctor.org
Subject: Repair Quote
I was advised by telephone to submit pictures in order to get a repair quote for my leather chaise sectional. Attached please find the pictures of the damage to three areas. My sectional also requires cleaning. Can you please contact M - - - - - - - by telephone at 604 - - - - - - - with the quote for repair/cleaing Thank you.
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Jesus Roger i needed that to sober me up better than Red Bull :)
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The price of leather cleaning will always depend on many factors
Your location in the country
Your current clients and their expectations
Your training and qualifications to do the job
Your overheads
The cost of the suite in the first place
How long you are going to spend on the process
Products used
etc. etc. etc.
Good products will always reduce your time but may increase your product costs (not enourmously pro rata). You really need to base your charges on the time element and how much you would expect to earn in an hour with the overheads you have. It is impossible to compare overall. We have had people on training course who have charged between £35.00 and £350.00 and neither is right or wrong taking all their circumstances into account.
Do a good job, use good products and have the right training and back up support and give your customers the best service you can for the price that is appropraite to your business.
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Judy is correct but I think it is a matter of finding the right customer to pay your fee not the the other way around.
Roger gives some indepth answers but as up to now we are limited to knowledge about his products so I'm hoping to get one of his sets at the CCDO if not I will buy one as I think it will be a good purchase.
Keep it up Roger look forward to seeing more of your posts.
Shaun
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Shaun, beware your wallet will only take so much opening in one life time :o :D
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My finger nails will be black and blue, I think I'm turning into a southern softy back to eating tripe to harden me up!
Shaun
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I base my quote from pictures email from enquiries.
Quick question Roger, do you find customers email pictures often as ive been thinking for a while to let customers upload pics to me via the quote form on the website.
M
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Mark, I always ask for pic's on email enquiries ( if not local) as most are just price shoppers.
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That's a good idea Paul, do yo uask the same for carpets and fabric upholstery?
Shaun
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No not for cloth upholstery or carpets because I have every thing on the van to handle what ever I may come across. But for leather I may have to get some dyes/pigments made up.
So I ask for a few pictures of the leather and damage first so I can give an idea of the price. If the customer is happy with the initial quote then I will call around to confirm price and take a swatch.
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When I tell them to save $200 by sending in pictures with a free consultation they often oblige. When they are serious about their enquiry they will often send in pictures. This is my experience, even today they send in pictures first before they bring their cushions in. (A $1600.00 job to refinish a 30yrs old sofa). I do not have time to chase after jobs, they flood in.
“A picture is worth a thousand words”
Roger Koh
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Roger do you make your own pigments or buy them in?
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We use high performance upholstery micro-pigment that is strong against UV light. Paul do this test (Have color pigments from all suppliers, make samples and place them against the sun, half covered and check every 3 months for degree of fading). We are not capable of manufacturing these pigments ourselves we only play with the concoction in our everyday work.
High quality aqueous low VOC (volatile organic compound) UV resistance micro-pigments are used for the following color coats:
napaColor84™
primeColor34™
semiColor64™
fineColor74™
nubuckColor94™
So we have 5 different pigment, why so complicated?
Of course all the above have different binders that hold these pigments that coat the leather with different degrees of strength and permeability for comfort.
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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Hi Mike,
I price fabric upholstery between £28-£35 per seating area & Leather between £34-£42 per seating area. Both will depend on the actual size of the suite.
Richie.
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simon, i pride myself on my work, sometimes i wished that i had charged more, i charge what me and my custys think is value for money
these suites are £2500-£6000 each to replace, so a few hundred quid is a small price to pay to keep their suites in tip top condition
i believe that anyone who wants to charge less is doing their own business a diservice, cicumstances to play a part, for instance a lightly soiled suite that might only take an hour i would probably charge around £150
lets face it to take £100-£150 an hour for cleaning carpet is the norm, is'nt it?
ps i get most of the suites i quote for and all prices are fully inclusive of VAT
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Richie we could do you a make over with filler and dyes to make you look beautiful.
Well perhaps not you can't make a silk purse!
Shaun
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lets face it to take £100-£150 an hour for cleaning carpet is the norm, is'nt it?
Err! No
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Hi Guys
I used to charge around 100 for a typical suite but a couple of years ago I decided to charge 150 plus 50 for protection.
I get a reasonable number to do it's worthwhile.
If people don't want to pay then their are plenty who will do it cheaper.
As a consequence I have also raised my fabric prices to similar levels .
Cheers
Doug
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Colin, that’s the inspirational mindset to “Clean and Grow Rich in Leather”.
The more confident we are, the lesser the competition.
The higher is our charges to the satisfaction of our customer;
the better is our pride and satisfaction.
There is no doubt about it; it’s the only way to grow richer than we think.
Expensive Good quality leather service is “cheap in the long run”.
Cheap leather service only reflects our mediocrity and is “expensive in the long run”.
That’s part of my sales scripts.
Tip of the day, to impress my customer I wear full leather suite when doing on-location jobs. I have a quick spray and wipe with leatherScent’B™ before I start out. When I meet my customer at the door close enough in most cases I notice the smile on their face…
How seductive sensuous leather can be…
leatherScent’B™ is more leathery than the leather itself…
It gives you the oomph…
Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System
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lets face it to take £100-£150 an hour for cleaning carpet is the norm, is'nt it?
Colin did ask a question.
Any one else going to answer?
Is £100 - £150 an hour for carpet cleaning "the norm" ?
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Joe
It’s achievable but a lot depends, I should not be here don’t do leather as most of my customer are DFS.
Roger K
It’s funny about smell; I’ve often used Pledge.
Len
Ps looking into wipes.
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Achievable is different to "the norm"
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Discussing charges is a sure way to argument and acrimony and comparing hourly charges is pointless as people who charge considerably less per job will often earn considerably more per hour.
For instance some will complete an average fabric suite in around one and a half hours and charge around £65 to £85, or £44 to £56 per hour, slightly more for leather, which takes less time and therefore returns an even higher Hourly Rate.
Others will take around four hours, charge around £120 and end up with an hourly rate of only £30 per hour.
While those who take longer will claim to be BETTER that is most certainly NOT necessarily the case !
So................from a BUSINESS point of view...............who is following two of the main disciplines of any business to best effect ; - TIME MANAGEMENT and PROFITABILITY ?
How many four hour " working " slots are there in a day ?
How many 90 minute " working " slots are there in a day ?
Also, you will almost never clean a suite, without the addition of at least one carpet, just how are you going to spend in there ?
My comment is not suggesting people should work CHEAP as I certainly don't think £50 an hour is CHEAP, but, if my garage, spark, joiner, etc was seeking £100 an hour for what is 95% labour, I would do what most would do and " shop around "
Only my opinion........................don't think so.
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I think that in our industry most customers don't want to know how long but how good it will be.
Shaun
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My local Ford garage charges £85 an hour for labour.The public deem a machanic as a skilled craftsman and cleaning is only cleaning which anyone can do so feel if your charging prices like £100 an hour your ripping them off
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Hi Guys
A lot depends on how many enquiries you are is getting, if 40 then you can certainly quote higher than if you are getting 10.
Those who are better cleaners , have bettter marketing or are well established can obviously charge more but in most cases they have earnt that right.
Cheers
Doug
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Joe
On some of my jobs YES £210 ph, which is the norm. On others a lot-lot less which is also the norm.
Steve
Ford £85 in your neck of the woods need to take mine into Merc £75 last time in it there were 5 looking at it plus being plugged into the computer system it took a apprentice to point out the fault and he was only passing by
Len
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A lot of common sense in what Carpet Guy says. IMO
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I have done 4 leather suites in the last week, all for under £100 each + vat.
While the customers was paying me I asked them if I'd quoted them over £220 + vat for the same job would they have booked me?
Unanimous answer? No!!!
Some said that if they knew what I good job I was going to be they would have been happy to pay more than I'd charged them but thought £220+ vat was just too much.
But hey, if you can get it! I just wonder how many customers you lose looking for the odd potential client that is willing to pay that much.
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:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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;D ;D ;D
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Simon,
The point is you had already given them the price and they had that price in there mind, I do agree with you that most people wont pay £200.00 + + Vat to have a suite cleaned it is to much.
Paul
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shouldn't you charge whatever you would have earned if you were cleaning carpets.
a couple of hours cleaning a leather suite I can easily clean a T/L ,HSL & the Kitchen so £150 sounds about right
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Simon at under £100 your a tad too cheap. More and more leather suites are coming up for cleaning now as DFS etc have been selling 100s of 1000s of them over the past 6 years, so top coats and redying are in good demand ;).
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Paul,
I take your point about having already given them the price, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the customers were lying when they said they wouldn't pay £220+ vat.
I'd rather charge a moderate price, do an excellent job for more people and reap the benefits of all the repeat and referral work that will surely come my way because I charge a fair price for a fantastic job.
Don't get me wrong, if people are happy to pay over £220 for something that is only actually worth half that then fair dinkum!
Paul,
Top coats and redying or one thing, but we're talking about just cleaning and conditioning. I don't do that, neither do most so there's a good market for your training courses. ;D
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Simon, Im very quiet this week, so if you fancy an hours drive here ( except Thurs) your more than welcome to come and spend a day/half day ;).
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Paul,
I did a course on restoration a good few years ago but never really got into it. Cruise ships are my forte and every time I watch the Leather Doctor at work on one of them I am always in awe of his skill at how he manages to make a scratch or tear disappear and match the colour perfectly, but it's not something I fancy doing myself.
Simon
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Simon, think how much you could more you could make doing the leather work on the ships as well. :o
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Nah,
Disloyalty to another member of the team is frowned upon really heavily and like I said, whilst I admire the skill involved it's not something that lights my fire.
Each to his own, I guess!
Simon