Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Londoner on February 29, 2008, 08:11:50 am
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I have been actively trying to canvass the bigger houses round Northwood because I thought it would be more profitable. I am talking about houses worth 1-2 million pounds plus in private roads.
I can tell you its very hard work trying drum up business in those areas. Last weekend my wife and I canvassed a group of roads that all link into a circle called Copsewood Way. We got three.
I did a first clean on one of them Wednesday, it took me over two hours but if I say it myself it was a good job. I checked every window before I left. There was nobody at home (as arranged) so I left my usual payment form and envelope.
Yesterday I had the day off to go shooting at Bisley, during the afternoon my wife got a phone call from the lady saying she wasn't satisfied with the windows and wanted to be taken of my books.
My wife tried to get out of her what was wrong but all she would say was that she wasn't "satisfied".
She didn't wan't me to come over and have a look and she didn't want me to do a reclean. You can guess the last bit of course, she wouldn't be sending the money either. She just wanted to be taken off our books.
Am I bothered? no not really. I'm not going to turn to drink and I'm not going to lie awake worrying about it. Either she has such high standards that nobody could ever meet her requirements or , as I suspect, she's pulled a fast one on me.
The rich ones are definitely the worst but what the heck, life is too short and nothing I can do will make her pay ( cow!) so If I get all angry and bitter its me who suffers.
This is the third time this has happened to me although the stories have been different in each case. It seems to be a growing trend though and thats a worry.
Anybody else had it or is it just me?
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Vince,
I would still pursue payment if I were you.
Go round and calmly ask for the money... If she refuses then put it in writing that you require payment within 7 days etc...
Andy
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I don't think thats going to work, she dropped the fact that her husband was a Lawyer into the conversation with my wife. Not by accident I would imagine.
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I don't think thats going to work, she dropped the fact that her husband was a Lawyer into the conversation with my wife. Not by accident I would imagine.
Well that would make me even more determined to get my money, they are refusing you the oportunity to rectify the problem, whatever that is.
Take legal advice yourself, if i was in the same situation i would happily spend £200 to get my £30-£40 or whatever ammount charged back.
The customer has been totally unreasonable.
Mark
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How much was the job?
Andy
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I think that it is certainly worth a visit. People are very brave over the phone, but in person may be a little less inclined to bluff you out.
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You should be bovvered .... IMO. In a previous life I have filled out the claim forms to "sue" a solicitor and he paid up immediately.
OK a plan:-
Go round in the evening, with your wife (a child is better! ;D) and ask what was wrong and what can you do to put it right; tell the lady that she has an obligation to tell you what was wrong and let you put it right.
Let's assume she's not honest and pulling a fast one.
You now hand her a letter and say "I have done the job well, I beleive you owe me the £XXX and I will now pursue this matter further." Say nothing more but repeat this exactly whatever she threatens you with.
Walk away, stand at the bottom of her drive looking back at the house and taking notes and talking into a mobile phone.
(The letter should say what you did, the amount, also you have not been allowed to resolve any issues and that if not paid within seven days you will "escalate" the matter, and that "for the avoidance of doubt" any phone calls from them may be recorded.)
See if anything happens. Take notes.
Always be polite but firm.
They may ignore you, he may send a letter denying etc. if he phones with a "not paying push off attitude" just say "I will now escalate this matter, good day!" and put the phone down.
At worst it will make them sweat!
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I'd go and ask for the money face to face. You have to be nice about it, and of course conduct everything in a legal manner, and take the opportunity to inspect the windows while ya there. It has been my experiance that the poor people are the ones who give no trouble and the rich ones think they can get away with treating the"lower classes" like crap, it's no coinsidence that she told you her husband is a lawyer, she is pulling a fast one, If you took her to court the judge would have expected her to allow you a fair chance to rectify any problems and to have explained why she was unhappy. fair trading works both ways in the eyes of the law. You can get free advice on this from your local Trading Standards Dept. Don't take it lying down, why should you!
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i would pursue it,its sad that people think they can just decide they dont want to pay just because they think they can get away with it.This week i made up some quote sheets,based on one of the documents from this site,chopped it about to suit,put some terms and conditions on and added a bottom section that i can tear off and keep with relevant details AND a signature AND a "every X wks from XX/XX/2008 until further notice" i may also go back and change the wording on the "complaints " bit on the t&c's after reading this thread.I handed out 2 this week and to be honest i felt a bit of a nob when i did,it all seemed a bit much ,but i am now glad i did and will be tweeking them up and running off some more this wknd :)
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Absolutely, definitely, 100% don't let the matter rest.
The fact that he's a lawyer works in your favour because the last thing he needs is you taking her (or him) to the SCC which will tarnish his reputation.
Seriously Vince if it were me I wouldn't rest until I'd got satisfaction.
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I don't think thats going to work, she dropped the fact that her husband was a Lawyer into the conversation with my wife. Not by accident I would imagine.
Vince, you will do whatever you feel is best.
The fact that you know you did a good job, means that she is bendng the truth.
The fact she wouldn't let you rectify means that she is bending the truth.
The fact she wouldn't give details of what was wrong means she is bending the truth
The fact that she didn't want a re-clean, suggests they were ok and that she is bending the truth.
Is her husband a lawyer?.......perhaps she is still bending the truth
:) :) :)
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I don't think thats going to work, she dropped the fact that her husband was a Lawyer into the conversation with my wife. Not by accident I would imagine.
Is her husband a lawyer?.......perhaps she is still bending the truth
:) :) :)
Excellent point!
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I've a 'lady' whose ripping me off for two £12.00 cleans.
I used to get upset about it; lose sleep planning revenge tactics such as chucking handfulls of carpet tacks over their drive on a monthly basis.
But now I just let it go. Poo happens and I bet 99% of your customers are reasonable, decent people.
As I type I'm looking at a cheque that was 'refered to drawer' by a customer who cancelled when she sent the cheque. She must know the cheque was bounced 'cos she would've received a £40 bank charge for it; the cheque is for £15!
She hasn't contacted me; I could phone her and/or I could just resubmit the cheque and if it bounces again she'll get another £40 bank charge (you can resubmit them three times).
But I won't.
Life's too short to stress over this sort of thing.
My advice is to let it go, customers like these are rare (unless you're just starting up from scratch; then you seem to find loads of 'em).
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I tend to agree with Tosh although it always hurts. To be honest I am the "little man" being shat on by the rich lady in the big house.
I didn't mention this before and I am really reluctant to get into this one but there is a difference in the ethnicity of this lady and me. Having seen the way the lady has manipulated the situation so far its just an issue I am not prepared to risk getting caught up in.
So basically I am bottling out. Wiser and poorer but with my head held high.
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Im the same as Tosh and Vince.
I would let it go and forget about it.
You will always get one every now and then.
Customer will soon be replaced anyway
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I`d say don`t worry madam i`ve kept the dirt from the clean and will be round to put it back on your window`s unless you`d like to re-think about paying me.
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I tend to agree with Tosh although it always hurts. To be honest I am the "little man" being shat on by the rich lady in the big house.
I didn't mention this before and I am really reluctant to get into this one but there is a difference in the ethnicity of this lady and me. Having seen the way the lady has manipulated the situation so far its just an issue I am not prepared to risk getting caught up in.
So basically I am bottling out. Wiser and poorer but with my head held high.
I once dropped a shop and house owned by an Indian family because one of the occupants 'watched' me while I did the clean. I'm not racist, but no English (or Welsh; I clean Welsh people's houses; I'm not proud) person has ever done this to me; and I'm 'nearly' Japanese. There's nothing wrong with checking my work when I've finished; but being watched was... well not nice!
Just put it down to experience! Mention this 'lady' to other local window cleaners when you meet them; make it tougher for her to do it again.
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Vince,
Its your money mate, and im sure you'll deal with it in a way your comfortable.
....it always grates when this happens and im sure more so on a job this size.
Al
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Vince you have been shafted mate, it hurts, but the sooner you can put it behind you the sooner the hurt stops, but hey! what goes round comes round you know. I was out collecting last night, at a house next door to a guy who took me for £30 [I finally managed to get it from his Mrs].
I see this decorator pull up, I asked him if he was owed any money, he asked why, and I told him of my experience. "Thanks mate, I really appreciate you telling me that, I came to price up a job." He got back into his van and drove off.
I had a customer refused to pay once, I took out my pen and a piece of paper, and let him see me writing down his car registration number. His Mrs ran out of the house and stuck the money in my hand.
I never threatened him, or said a word either. Dai
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You're running a business. You try running this trick with a product or service from a large organisation and see where it gets you.
If you have any intents to run your window cleaning as a business then at some point you will have a confrontation with a customer. You might as well use this customer as the one who has finally pushed you too far. Get it sorted and when it happens again you feel more in control.
Sorry to sound tough Vince but are you going to back down everytime someone says they weren't happy.
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I had a customer refused to pay once, I took out my pen and a piece of paper, and let him see me writing down his car registration number. His Mrs ran out of the house and stuck the money in my hand.
I never threatened him, or said a word either. Dai
thats choice ,i like that ;D ;)
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I tend to agree with Tosh although it always hurts. To be honest I am the "little man" being shat on by the rich lady in the big house.
I didn't mention this before and I am really reluctant to get into this one but there is a difference in the ethnicity of this lady and me. Having seen the way the lady has manipulated the situation so far its just an issue I am not prepared to risk getting caught up in.
So basically I am bottling out. Wiser and poorer but with my head held high.
I once dropped a shop and house owned by an Indian family because one of the occupants 'watched' me while I did the clean. I'm not racist, but no English (or Welsh; I clean Welsh people's houses; I'm not proud) person has ever done this to me; and I'm 'nearly' Japanese. There's nothing wrong with checking my work when I've finished; but being watched was... well not nice!
Just put it down to experience! Mention this 'lady' to other local window cleaners when you meet them; make it tougher for her to do it again.
"or Welsh; I clean Welsh people's houses; I'm not proud"
WTF !? Explain ..................................
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"or Welsh; I clean Welsh people's houses; I'm not proud"
WTF !? Explain ..................................
It's just a joke, mate; my Missis; Wor Lass is Welsh. I live in Chepstow which is sort of South East Wales.
It's just a joke, honest; I love the Welsh; they make me laugh.
Sorry, I apologise for my bad spelling; I can't help it from giggling at your response.
Are you a Taff perchance? ;)
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Call round, face to face, as polite as you can. If she still won't pay tell her to give the money to charity, cause if she keeps it whatever she buys with it will bring her very bad luck. I f nothing else, she will worry about it for a while!
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Some debts I can't be bothered to collect. However, if someone really narks me off, I will perservere to the bitter end no matter how long it takes. I spent 18 months waking one of my ex customers up early Sunday mornings until he got so fed up he eventually cracked and paid up in full. He was cursing and swearing at me and I was laughing back at him. I know it's not professional and rather foolish, but somethings have to be done in the name of self respect and pride. I didn't pursue it for the money but for the principal by the way.
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I didn't pursue it for the money but for the principal by the way.
But when people say 'it's not the money, it's the principle', it really is just the MONEY!
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for me its both ;D the money AND the principle
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let i go dude i get ripped of sometimes forgive but dont forget
seek revenge dig two graves
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I didn't pursue it for the money but for the principal by the way.
But when people say 'it's not the money, it's the principle', it really is just the MONEY!
Tosh,
I let most things go over my head. I don't like to worry about things because it just stresses me out, then my arthritic flare ups begin and then I have to take time off work because of my health.
On my last post, it really was about the principal, not the money.
If I worried about debts, my health would suffer. I stick to my principals to the end.
I was in Germany in the forces and was ripped off at a fair by a conman. The German police wanted to arrest me for causing a scene in public arguing with this German conman. I stood my ground until the British military police sorted the situation out. I was quite happy to be arrested by the police because I firmly believe in sticking to my principals, (right or wrong).
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Why does WFP bring so many problems ????.
I can honestly say I have never had 1 complaint in 20 years and yet I read on here that I have been dropped and had cmplaints.
If the job is done properly then there should be no problem !!
I tell a lie, I did have a complaint once and when I went round the problem was on the inside which was not my fault making the customer feeling very silly.
This is my point with WFP, too many things can influence the finished job.
Not having a go just stating a fact !
Regards
Adam
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And "AM I BOVVERED" Yes you should be because you are not giving customer satisfaction !! ??? ???
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I tend to agree with Tosh although it always hurts. To be honest I am the "little man" being shat on by the rich lady in the big house.
I didn't mention this before and I am really reluctant to get into this one but there is a difference in the ethnicity of this lady and me. Having seen the way the lady has manipulated the situation so far its just an issue I am not prepared to risk getting caught up in.
So basically I am bottling out. Wiser and poorer but with my head held high.
Keep a couple of small fish in your freezer & some night it's ping rain, head round & throw them on the roof so they land in the gutters ;D Her gaf will smell like a fishing boat for weeks ;D ;D
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follow it up, or leave it as is?
alot of talk about principals. surely the principal is you had, at the very least, a verbal contract with this woman. she has broken this contract by refusing to pay for your services.
some guys have said this sort of thing is few and far between, surely though, the more times we let it go, the more people find out that the window cleaner is a soft touch and it snow balls. suddenly everyone she knows is trying it on with you.
the other possibility is that she is telling people what a bad job you did. each way you loose future income.
all each of us have is our reputation. is that worth fighting over?
only you can answer that.
Niall
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Why does WFP bring so many problems ????.
I can honestly say I have never had 1 complaint in 20 years and yet I read on here that I have been dropped and had cmplaints.
If the job is done properly then there should be no problem !!
I tell a lie, I did have a complaint once and when I went round the problem was on the inside which was not my fault making the customer feeling very silly.
This is my point with WFP, too many things can influence the finished job.
Not having a go just stating a fact !
Regards
Adam
am i right in thinking that for the last 2 years you have also been useing wfp,and still you say have had no complaints at all, cant be much wrong with wfp then can their ??? or are you the only one doing it right ;D
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Yes you are right , I have been using WFP for the last 2 years.
As I have said many many times, I only use it on high and awkward cleans and con roofs, my main form of cleaning is trad and I have never had any complaints at all. I make the customer aware that I only use it in certain conditions and explain the problems and as a result never had one complaint.
Quality is my main concern and not quantity and this works for me. If a contractor is getting regular complaints then they are doing some thing wrong.
I am not having a go I am just giving my opinion which this forum is all about, I care about the job I do and customer satisfaction is also important.
Regards
Adan
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I don't think thats going to work, she dropped the fact that her husband was a Lawyer into the conversation with my wife. Not by accident I would imagine.
I knew a builder who was up against the "my husband is a lawyer" line when he couldn't get payment for an extension. He replied that his best friend was also a lawyer and that he owned a 14lb sledgehammer. He got paid. Remembering what I do of the guy, he would have demolished the extension too. Not suggesting you should do the same of course :)
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Just turn up and offer to put the dirt back on for her.
If it was me I would have gone straight round to see the problem and talk to her. I've only had one bad experience so far and by being polite and apologetic it got me my money even though she was well out of order. You get a lot of satisfaction by not cracking under pressure. ;)
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Some years ago a local window cleaner here did a lot of work on a rented house belonging to a solicitor. It was a builders clean and took him all day.
He sent in his bill and she refused to pay saying she wasnt happy. So he went back and did the job again. Still she refused to pay. Nothing wrong with the work now - she just refused to pay.
So he went to where she worked and asked to see a solicitor regarding an unpaid window cleaning bill.
" Certainly Sir ....come this way."..He entered the office and was asked for details . He mentioned the name and address and the solicitor said " oh ... leave it with us"
He got his cheque in full a few days later. Didnt cost a penny! ;)
Simon.