Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: xxmattyxx on February 25, 2008, 05:07:37 pm
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I had a custy approach me today after doing there windows for the first time WFP, which was 18 days ago, saying they wernt impressed. Apparently the windows were minging, she said they looked like net-curtains when the sun shone on them.
Anyway, I was a bit annoyed as they hadnt phoned to complain, apparently he got up the ladder and did them himself afterwards. I would have liked to have seen them, at least to know how bad they were and to know what had caused it.
Anyway, when I first started doing this custy about 6 months ago it was trad and he came out and asked if I would be doing the frames, they were as minging as minging could be (black with dirt top bar), so I said then that I could but it would be more as they were so soiled. To which he declined, he obviously wanted it as a freebie, he wasnt going to pay for that. So I left them.
Anyway, when I did them WFP 18 days ago I did the lot with water from their outside tap first to give these minging frames a good going over then WFP'd them.
Today I said to her give it one more go and we'll see how they come up, to which she seemed agreeable. I went up there today after finishing wrk to try to have a look but theres no-one in, so cant see round the back, the fronts look fine, but that may be becasue he did them
I havent had any other complaints so far but have noticed a little bit of spotting occasionally but by no means anything like what these guys are suggesting.
Im wondering if theyre problem custys as when I started doing them they moaned about their last window cleaner apparently breaking into the house ???
So, what you guys reckon? Are they trying a fast one on, or could the windows really have been that bad even with 2 cleans on the same day?
Frames are uPVC.
Matt
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The're lying.
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If you went over them firstly with normal water, you might have got tap water dribble down even if you wfp them afterwards.
I dont understand why you used their water in the first place, the cost of cleaning 1 house wfp is pence in water usage.
Bob
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If you went over them firstly with normal water, you might have got tap water dribble down even if you wfp them afterwards.
Bob
You think tap-water would make them appear as poor as she was saying?
I dont understand why you used their water in the first place, the cost of cleaning 1 house wfp is pence in water usage.
Bob
I am currently using a trolley system, and work out of a car, my water carrying capacity is limited, thus it seems doing frames first that are heavily soiled this way is perfectly acceptable.
Matt
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I was going to say the same, i live in a hard water area and it only takes one squirt with a hosepipe, let them dry and they are pretty much ruined. My missus watered the kitchen windows and the plants. They have never come up properly since.
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Still think they are lying though.
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Tap water will leave the "net curtain effect"
Unless you let the tap water dry and come back in a couple of hours, the tap water will be sitting there waiting to dribble down.
You have to bite the bullit on the first clean and that may mean you have to go home to get more water.
You should be ok next time so dont worry about it.
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DJW
Unless you know these customers, why do you think they are lying?
Bob
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I havent had this occur on all the other houses Ive used it, pleasantly pleased with the standard of work for first time round.
Im sure its not the tap-water.
Why are they lying? I dunno. I dunno if they are, sometimes you get an odd feeling from some custys, you know like when you know theyre not going to be that regular, the story about the previous window-cleaner breaking into their house with his mates seemed odd when they told me.
Perhpas they just dont like the thought of WFP or the need for her to be there for me to do them.
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If you went over them firstly with normal water, you might have got tap water dribble down even if you wfp them afterwards.
I dont understand why you used their water in the first place, the cost of cleaning 1 house wfp is pence in water usage.
Bob
Right,don`t go over with them with tap water first this is a myth that will only make the window`s come up worse than before you even do them.The water that is full of minerals dries on the glass and leaves deposits on the glass,you then go over them with pure water and this fails to shift mineral deposits on the glass which you have put there,sacrafice the extra pure water that you`ll have to use in order to get them clean.The only way is to take your time on the first clean.
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They wernt complaining about spotting, she said it was like a curtain.
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Best thing to do is take a pair of new curtains next time and compare ;D
Im sure you will be fine next time. NWH seems to be spot on (excuse the pun)
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If it was like a curtain i know what you mean,almost like dry ripples of water.It seems to dry like this on some window`s until a few cleans,once the window`s are sterile it won`t dry like this in my experience,there`s still residue on the glass forming this pattern.The window`s that your talking about sheet or i`m a dutchman.
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Matt
Firstly with spotting you need check what might be causing it, before the customer gets the blame.
I would check the following first
Your water has a tds reading of 000, take this reading from water that has come from your brush head.
Your brush head is clear of any dirt.
If you are producing and using pure water then the window got contaminated from some other source.
You can use tap water to do a 1st clean, but you must use plenty of pure water to completely rinse this water away, so it might not be viable to use.
What I do on 1st cleans is really scrub the frames first, then I will use the brush head to wipe the frames down of excess water then I clean the glass.
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DJW
Unless you know these customers, why do you think they are lying?
Bob
If your a proper windowcleaner you would leave a contact number which he probably did. So why oh why didn't the customer phone up and complain? If the guy is capable of doing his own windows - why pay to have them done? That's the only reason why it smells a bit fishy to me. Of course i could be entirely wrong. :)
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You will only see this effect of rippleing once they`ve had a really good shower of rain on them maybe it`s the first time since they`ve had rain,this will go after a few cleans.You also get this if you don`t rinse enough on the first couple of cleans.
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DJW, yup they have my number, she goes by the house here everyday to take the sprog to school too.
Anyway, I can really only conclude that it is contamination from above the top horizontal bar, really heavily soiled and minging, that just didnt get rinsed thoroughly enough.
Just been back up there to have a natter with her and look at the glass, she seemed alright actually not too dogged off about it.
Next time, Im going to take the ladder and have a proper look at the top-side of the highest horizontal bar, see if it needs more of a clean off and maybe do them twice.
See how it comes up then.
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Let your customer know that unless they inform you of a problem with their windows within a maximum of 7 days you only have their word that the windows weren't cleaned properly and as you need to inspect them you can't tell what the problem was because they've been over them again.
Sounds to me like your customer wanted you to do all the hard work of cleaning all around the minging frames, leave it 18 days to complain, saying that they've re-done them ( yes the glass, not the frames).
You've been had, they saw you coming a mile.
Get it on your website, or on your window cleaning chits, that if the customer has a problem with your window cleaning work to inform you within a maximum of 7 days.
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You've been had, they saw you coming a mile.
Why have I been had, because I didnt get paid?
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Iv'e been WFP for 2 years and still get some new customers windows doing the net curtian thing. It's muck from the top edge. when you first do them you have to clean the top edge then let them dry, then clean again.
Dont presume all your customers windows will come up well, WFP is awful for some windows. Go back and do them for free. You didn't do them well enough first time.
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First cleans are always a bit risky but of you have tap water marks on the glass you won't get it off next time you clean. You are going to clean it off with shower cleaner or something similar.
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Matt,
Unless you've a strong feeling that these are problem customers, do them one more time and stress to the customer that they should phone you straight away if the windows aren't clean.
Tell them if there's any problems you'll be round straight away to sort them out; with your ladders if need be; but also reasert that with 99.9% of your work, the windows and frames dry leaving the windows clean. Just make sure they have your contact details, so there's no lack of communication.
Some customers just don't like the pole; I lost one two weeks ago to a trad guy and that customer sacked her previous-to-me window cleaner because he used a pole; I must've been cleaning her windows for about four years.
Another, when I first started with the pole, a customer complained her windows were spotty, so I went and checked the following day and they were gleaming; the only marks were on the INSIDE of the window; her previous window cleaner had used a WFP; and she just assumed they would be rubbish.
Window cleaning would be much better if we could run some sort of 'sensibility test' on our customers prior to taking them on.
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Let your customer know that unless they inform you of a problem with their windows within a maximum of 7 days you only have their word that the windows weren't cleaned properly and as you need to inspect them you can't tell what the problem was because they've been over them again.
Sounds to me like your customer wanted you to do all the hard work of cleaning all around the minging frames, leave it 18 days to complain, saying that they've re-done them ( yes the glass, not the frames).
You've been had, they saw you coming a mile.
Get it on your website, or on your window cleaning chits, that if the customer has a problem with your window cleaning work to inform you within a maximum of 7 days.
7 Days!!!!!!! ???
24 to 48 hours maximum.
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maybe im wrong matt but i was told some timeago(on this site)never to use tap water as it can contaminate your pole and tank and takes ages to flush out
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Let your customer know that unless they inform you of a problem with their windows within a maximum of 7 days you only have their word that the windows weren't cleaned properly and as you need to inspect them you can't tell what the problem was because they've been over them again.
Sounds to me like your customer wanted you to do all the hard work of cleaning all around the minging frames, leave it 18 days to complain, saying that they've re-done them ( yes the glass, not the frames).
You've been had, they saw you coming a mile.
Get it on your website, or on your window cleaning chits, that if the customer has a problem with your window cleaning work to inform you within a maximum of 7 days.
7 Days!!!!!!! ???
24 to 48 hours maximum.
Helen
I suggested to the lad who started this thread to make sure his customers complain within 7 days maximum because he was having the urine extracted in my opinion. I personally insist that if a customer has a complaint to inform me within 24 hours, maximum 48 otherwise I can't offer a refund or free wash if the fault is mine. It is stated on the bill I leave my customers.
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Matt, you don't give a location in your profile, do you live anywhere near the sea?
I have seen windows minging after just a few hours, after gale force winds and rain near the coast.
It can travel inland for miles too.
I have used customers water for glass conservatory roofs, giving them a rinse with the pure stuff after. They turned out fine, but the tap TDS is only around 40ppm.
As has been said, complaining after all that time is just not on.
PS do you use nitrox?
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maybe im wrong matt but i was told some timeago(on this site)never to use tap water as it can contaminate your pole and tank and takes ages to flush out
I dont use a tank, Im working out of barrels, but the tap-water I was using was straight out the back of the houses outside tap
Matt, you don't give a location in your profile, do you live anywhere near the sea?
I have seen windows minging after just a few hours, after gale force winds and rain near the coast.
It can travel inland for miles too.
I have used customers water for glass conservatory roofs, giving them a rinse with the pure stuff after. They turned out fine, but the tap TDS is only around 40ppm.
As has been said, complaining after all that time is just not on.
PS do you use nitrox?
Not near the sea Dai, about 40 miles inland.
Nitrox? Not on me glass ;D
Actually, no I dont use Nitrox, I may at some time in the future do the course, not just yet, qualified to PADI level at the mo, Im a casual holiday diver, off to the Red Sea 2 weeks today actually, I'll do a couple of dives.
Matt
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The tap water you used WON'T leave any mineral deposits on the glass that won't just clean right back off with pure as it's not been left long enough to take effect. Also the glass is never at any point sterile (just to clear that one up ) My guess is oxidization of the top frame. when this contaminates the pure water It can look like sheeted weak milk when dried.
Why you doing the top frame anyway?
Another thing, if you plugged your hose reel into the tap then when you changed over to pure you would have had a whole hose full of tap water to push through first.
Tony
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The tap water you used WON'T leave any mineral deposits on the glass that won't just clean right back off with pure as it's not been left long enough to take effect. Also the glass is never at any point sterile (just to clear that one up ) My guess is oxidization of the top frame. when this contaminates the pure water It can look like sheeted weak milk when dried.
Why you doing the top frame anyway?
Tony
indeed, i do conserv galss roofs with tap water and a final rinse with pure, dont it for years and its fine
Another thing, if you plugged your hose reel into the tap then when you changed over to pure you would have had a whole hose full of tap water to push through first.
Tony
i allways watch the "in hose" and watch till it start moving and wait a short time, then i know the water is pure
this is only on glass roofs though
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I did a first clean on a new house in Northwood last week. A big detatched house with lots of glass.
Somebody had tried to clean the windows in the past with a pressure washer and all the windows had water staining like you describe. I wiped them over with Cillit Bang to get it off. Took me ages but they came up OK.
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The tap water you used WON'T leave any mineral deposits on the glass that won't just clean right back off with pure as it's not been left long enough to take effect.
It'd take a lot of convincing for me to believe that tap-water left on a pane of glass for 10 minutes is going to leave behind all of its mineral contents ;D
I dont know why people say such sweeping statements.
Regarding swapping over from the in-house tap to RO, yes I flush the hose out first.
Anyway, Im simply putting it down to the high level of contamination of the frames, as I said before Ill get up there next time with the ladder, and just have a good look round, with a cloth too, and do them again thoroughly.
Live and learn.
Thanks guys.
Matt
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It'd take a lot of convincing for me to believe that tap-water left on a pane of glass for 10 minutes is going to leave behind all of its mineral contents ;D
I dont know why people say such sweeping statements
Matt
Depends where you live - i can show you glass like this where one shower of tap water does this, admittedly not after ten minutes but it won't shift with my sytem either and it doesn't show in dull weather. Oxidized frames sounds a good bet, but you normally see it streaming down the glass or on the path.
Anyway, Mat i'm sure you'll sort it out - let us know what conclusion you come too next time.
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Tap water can leave deposits when it's left to dry, I guess most of us have seen the mess that lawn sprinklers leave when left too close to the glass.
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We have a very high limescale content where i live. I had one custy moan about spots on her window and i knew it was perfect when i left. Turned out the kids were playing with dad and squirted water everywhere. I've used Crystal clear on it (expensive) but you can always see a pattern when you rinse.
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tap water has to dry to leave marks, i too use tap water on glass cons roofs then final rinse with pure and results are fine. matt i am sure that you will find at least one or two houses that will never be any good with pole and about ten times that who find first cleans are a bit crap but dont let it phase you. You are about to experience "ladder withdrawal syndrome" where you are unable to check work up close from ladder,have to go to next job while windows are still wet so cant check work,can onlly rely on customers reports of standard of finish...........etc.i would go back and do em ONE free clean and see how it goes,after that play by ear its usually easy to tell the aholes from genuine probs and a lot of teething probs DO get resolved....chin up ;D ;)
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it wont help that the customer has done them themselves, probably covered in windowleen now
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You can also get the same effect from lime leeching out of the cement above the window and being carried down by the rainwater.