Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: leepaton1 on February 14, 2008, 08:43:55 pm
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hi guy just starting window cleaning in your opinion which would be the best way forward to start with . i have got a custom base of 120 houses which im going to start next week . what would be the best way to start either trad or wfp till i get into the hang of things and hopefully build up more work thanks for any help/advice given :)
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All down to your budget really and where you want to go with it - part time or full time?
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man....watch this one go nuts ::) ::) ::) big old row coming on here.personally i went trad then trolley and wil have van and trolley by ...summer i hope .all depends on your budget etc ..what djw said really.GET THE POPCORN OUT MATT ;D ;D ;D
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even if you decide to get a trolley, just by adding a water tank a submersible pump and battery to it will give you a van mount and the ability to detatch if you really need it.
If cash is a problem, then a backpack, pole, RO and 25 litre barrels will at least get your foot off the ladder for the least possible outlay.
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There are three threads all titled "who's got his head screwed on" try and pick the bones out of them and decide for yourself. All down to money
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Oh and age/fitness come into it too - if your young and fit then you could start with ladders, backpack or trolley. If your older, richer,with a tired body then go van mount. ;D
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There are three threads all titled "who's got his head screwed on" try and pick the bones out of them and decide for yourself. All down to money
;D ;D ;D ;D learn to do trad tho ;)
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when i 1st went wfp i bought a van mount and a mark1 freedom trolley. I broke statues, plants and knocked all sorts of things over with the microbore and started using mainly the trolley for a long time. I got very quick with it and learnt to do a good job using water sparingly.
But i've had what i thought was back problems for a while and went to get a massage off some yoga woman back in october and she told me my back was fine but i have a "raised hip." She said its normally due to heavy lifting.
So i've gone back to using the van mount as the main bit of equipment.
This was caused by the trolley but its unfair to blame the trolley as it was the posture i used to get it out of the van.
Lifting the hose reel out isn't such a strain and i can alternate how i lift it out which i couldn't really do with the trolley.
I would have stuck with the trolley as i got more work done with the 400 litres i carried as i could keep an eye on it with every 25 litres i used.
Now with a tap to restrict flow rate i'm almost getting as much work done with the van mount as i was with the trolley but much quicker.
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took advice from this forum and went wfp straight away,has taken me 3 months to perfect but it is the right decision,however still part time with only 80 properties. you have done well to be starting with 120 good luck.
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You've only given us one vote so I'm not voting.
I would vote all 4
You'll need all of them.
In today's market with house and commercial building designs challenging you, what is needed in the average w/c arsenal of tools is a versatile kit. This includes being flexible enough to be skilled with all 4 methods.
Hows about that ;)
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befor the various camps notice this thread and start shouting about van mounts ,back packs ,hot systems,etc, i think a trolley is a good compromise tostart with but as mark says the lifting is hard work.however i use a trolley but combined with a hose reel it gives option of leaving in van and swap barrels in there(LESS LIFTING) or run it round to awkward bits if you have to
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djw i plan to go full time ive got a nice start of 120 houses do be done fortnightly . mark thanks for the reply hope your hips ok now . budget wise its a bit tight at the moment but i want to be safe while i work a wfp looks the way to go . Dos anyone have a link for the working at height regs that they can post on here please .
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i understand pj about needing all for , ive done a bit of trad before so i should be ok with that its just wfp as its all new to me and im trying to find a good way to start with this on a shoestring budget .
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120 houses a fortnight is a pretty good shoestring.
Buy the best you can afford
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working at height stuff is here.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2005/20050735.htm
yeah, i'm getting more flexible again now, thanks. The reason i mentioned is that it came about slowly and took several months of minor irritation until i got to the stage where i couldn't stretch away the niggles. Funnily enough, i got the most relief by working. It was sitting around thet caused me problems.
A backpack, cheap RO and an xtel pole will be your cheapest introduction to wfp. Apart from the cheapest RO which you would want to probably buy again but larger or by upgrading with new membranes if possible, the rest of the kit will have its place and wouldn't be wasted.
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pj these houses are whats been given to me from the old cleaner who retired and they are not the best prices hopefully once i start i will put the prices up and work on it from there , i reckon the prices have been same for the last 5 years but i will work at it a hopefully make something of it . mark thanks for the link and glad you are on the mend .
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Don't mess about with trolleys or backpacks, if your serious about this business get yourself a van mount! Most people including myself make the mistake of starting small with a trolley or backpack and then end up wishing that they had got the proper equipment to begin with, you don't have to spend a fortune, but get the best equipment you can afford and the biggest tank that you can fit in your van, your business will soon grow into it, but if you start with bp's or trolleys you will soon want to upgrade!!
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leepaton1,
Tread carefully, Sad but true the customer is most important here. without them you wont be earning. Dont lose sight of the fact that what it all boils down to is cash in your pocket.
Is this work established? do you know how to wfp? what are the customers used to?
If its established wfp then go for it, and just use whatever system you can get your hands on, they are all as cheap or expensive as you want them to be. However if its "fresh" work or been done previously with a ladder I personally would establish myself with the customer as a good, reliable, honest window cleaner and use a ladder. (with a definate goal of switching to wfp within a year.)
Make sure you keep your 120 customers and make sure that number goes up not down.
Ps: A personal experience:
I bought 600 customers a few years ago, worth about 4k a month (established work, trad, and a little underpriced) but a nice round. It took me about 3 months to totally decimate it. changed to wfp, done a rubbish job and lost over 400 of them. Didnt even have the sense to tell them I would do it trad from now on, because I was so adamant I was wfp from now on!!! With a little forethought I could have kept those customers, raised the prices over a couple of years gone wfp and had an awesome round.
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taken on board groundhog what you say , yes im serious about this business as im fed up with being in dead end jobs .
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djw i plan to go full time ive got a nice start of 120 houses do be done fortnightly . mark thanks for the reply hope your hips ok now . budget wise its a bit tight at the moment but i want to be safe while i work a wfp looks the way to go . Dos anyone have a link for the working at height regs that they can post on here please .
Leepaton1 If youve got 120 houses to be done fortnightly thats 240 a month you should be getting on for a couple of grand a month thats more than enough to keep you busy for a few months. Dont get to bogged down with how you clean, just make sure that you do clean them.
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bvc the round ive just got as been done by the same cleaner for the last 8 years ive not bought it its all been done trad but as its only a small village and i no most of the people they would be happy for me to use either method . ive a mate who uses wfp and he will be taking me out next week for a couple of days .
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Ok mate, just read you got the work from an old boy, whos retired. Think about it, The old fella was probably on first name terms with all 120 of your customers, done them for years and watched all their kids grow up. He probably drank tea, ate biscuits and had a chinwag with most of them and spent half an hour on every house with his ladder. I would bet most of them are over 50.
Now picture this. A groundhog turns up in a van full of water, get his hose out and sprays it everwhere. Puts it all back in the van a puts a bill in for a tenner. when the customer asks were is the ladder, they get told, sorry love health and safety. (I guarantee if you do this, you will not have 120 customers left next month.)
My advice, Consolidate your round, earn your money, then build it up to where you want it.
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GET THE POPCORN OUT MATT ;D ;D ;D
the wife cooked a nice meal tonight, so no popcorn for me, but im sure this thread will rubble on till tomorrow ;)
A TROLLEY as far as im concearned, its good to start with, you can stick it in a car or van, if in time you decide on a Van mount then its not wasted as it can be used for them houses that are heard to park outside etc etc, you can even alter the trolley to run as a van mount, just use the IN pipe into a tank in the van
<--------- e.mail me for a link to the DIY WFP site, you will then have to let me know your name ( post a Oi matt thread here, i will see it ;))
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bvc the round ive just got as been done by the same cleaner for the last 8 years ive not bought it its all been done trad but as its only a small village and i no most of the people they would be happy for me to use either method . ive a mate who uses wfp and he will be taking me out next week for a couple of days .
In this situation i reckon the best way to approach it is to do them wfp but go back at the end of the day to check the dried windows and if good then ask for the money.
No matter what explanation you give them beforehand, they will probably not like this new way by default. But if they are dry and spotless when you're asking for payment you will have taken away their most likely ammunition of what they don't like.
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Ok mate, just read you got the work from an old boy, whos retired. Think about it, The old fella was probably on first name terms with all 120 of your customers, done them for years and watched all their kids grow up. He probably drank tea, ate biscuits and had a chinwag with most of them and spent half an hour on every house with his ladder. I would bet most of them are over 50.
Now picture this. A groundhog turns up in a van full of water, get his hose out and sprays it everwhere. Puts it all back in the van a puts a bill in for a tenner. when the customer asks were is the ladder, they get told, sorry love health and safety. (I guarantee if you do this, you will not have 120 customers left next month.)
My advice, Consolidate your round, earn your money, then build it up to where you want it.
Ok, I look a bit of a wally now, that should teach me to read all posts before I post!!
Well 8 years Is still a fair while, but if you say the customers are happy with wfp you would be mad not to go wfp.
I cant believe Im saying this, but I kind of agree with groundhog, Get a cheap van mount, as it looks a little more proffessional on an established round, (most people will think youve got a nuclear reactor in there) It also creates a little bit of mystery because all the customer can see is a pole. Plus if your just starting out, you will need as much water as you can transport. Backpacks are fantastic, (I carry mine by the strap like a shopping bag and the pole in the other hand) but you need to know how to conserve water and be familiar with your work.
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Ok mate, just read you got the work from an old boy, whos retired. Think about it, The old fella was probably on first name terms with all 120 of your customers, done them for years and watched all their kids grow up. He probably drank tea, ate biscuits and had a chinwag with most of them and spent half an hour on every house with his ladder. I would bet most of them are over 50.
Now picture this. A groundhog turns up in a van full of water, get his hose out and sprays it everwhere. Puts it all back in the van a puts a bill in for a tenner. when the customer asks were is the ladder, they get told, sorry love health and safety. (I guarantee if you do this, you will not have 120 customers left next month.)
My advice, Consolidate your round, earn your money, then build it up to where you want it.
good call
this is what i did, i was in the same situation as you, i did the round the first few times with ladder and WFP system, the hard to reach windows i did with WFP ( inc the bath room ) i then did the windows i was sure i was safe enough on ( i also used a rojik ladder stopper and a sand bag )
this served to purposes to me, 1. i met the customers and got to know them a little, 2. it got them used to seeing the WFP trolley, i explained about the WAH regs AND MY SAFETY and i would as soon be going over to WFP upstairs ( now they had seen me use it on the hard to reach windows, above porches etc etc , so it wasnt that much of a shock )
i would also just do the upstairs WFP, then you can do the downstairs and get it right first time ( non of this, it'll come good in a few cleans ) by hand downstairs you know it'll look good
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Yep, I think matt has got it spot on. No pun intended. The last thing you want to say to these customers is, sorry but you will have to pay me at least 3 times before your windows look clean.
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Yep, I think matt has got it spot on. No pun intended. The last thing you want to say to these customers is, sorry but you will have to pay me at least 3 times before your windows look clean.
Yes, i can't get my head around that either. We are not paid to do a good job in the future. Wfp is a great tool but its out of order to take money for a job that we haven't done. If windows haven't come up good we should rectify it rather than hope for the best next time.
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I cant see any reason for a customer to wait for 3 cleans for a satisfactory result from wfp :o If you follow whats said on here and it is mostly good advice then the customers will see the advantage straight away. ok so a first clean takes twice as long, "frames first then around again for the glass" you will make that up on the next clean you need to invest your time to reap the rewards later.
I have not had a compliant yet about wfp.
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Yep, I think matt has got it spot on. No pun intended. The last thing you want to say to these customers is, sorry but you will have to pay me at least 3 times before your windows look clean.
Yes, i can't get my head around that either. We are not paid to do a good job in the future. Wfp is a great tool but its out of order to take money for a job that we haven't done. If windows haven't come up good we should rectify it rather than hope for the best next time.
I must admit I have used the line there maybe a problem first clean, but if there is please let me know and I will be straight back to sort it, I prefer to cover myself that way ;)
I do spend longer on first cleans but unless you stand and wait for the water to dry completly you cant tell if you going to have problems.
Thats my take on it.
Roll on 6:30 so I can go to work
Ian
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cheers for advice guys its good to no that theres people out there that will give advice . like the sound of the trolley matt as you say you can still use as a van mount thanks :)
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Now picture this. A groundhog turns up in a van full of water, get his hose out and sprays it everwhere. Puts it all back in the van a puts a bill in for a tenner. when the customer asks were is the ladder, they get told, sorry love health and safety. (I guarantee if you do this, you will not have 120 customers left next month.)
What you have failed to account for is the Groundhog charm 8), I have taken over many jobs from other cleaners who have been trad, and to date I can only think of 1 customer who I have lost due to wfp, it is how you sell yourself and your service that counts! ;)
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id go with what matt said until you get used to the work as it seem to be a new round for you , you never no you minght have 120 customers to start with but you could lose some of these .
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this is what i did, i was in the same situation as you, i did the round the first few times with ladder and WFP system, the hard to reach windows i did with WFP ( inc the bath room ) i then did the windows i was sure i was safe enough on ( i also used a rojik ladder stopper and a sand bag )
this served to purposes to me, 1. i met the customers and got to know them a little, 2. it got them used to seeing the WFP trolley, i explained about the WAH regs AND MY SAFETY and i would as soon be going over to WFP upstairs ( now they had seen me use it on the hard to reach windows, above porches etc etc , so it wasnt that much of a shock )
i would also just do the upstairs WFP, then you can do the downstairs and get it right first time ( non of this, it'll come good in a few cleans ) by hand downstairs you know it'll look good
What a lot of fannying about, start as you mean to go on, clean them properly with your wfp and let them see what a good job you can do with your system, don't p*ssy foot around apologising that you have to use wfp because of health & safety ect, tell them you use wfp because it is fantastic, that there frames and sills will be cleaned everytime and that the windows will stay cleaner for longer!!! ;)
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What you have failed to account for is the Groundhog charm
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? strange ....cos ya keep it well hid on here
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this is what i did, i was in the same situation as you, i did the round the first few times with ladder and WFP system, the hard to reach windows i did with WFP ( inc the bath room ) i then did the windows i was sure i was safe enough on ( i also used a rojik ladder stopper and a sand bag )
this served to purposes to me, 1. i met the customers and got to know them a little, 2. it got them used to seeing the WFP trolley, i explained about the WAH regs AND MY SAFETY and i would as soon be going over to WFP upstairs ( now they had seen me use it on the hard to reach windows, above porches etc etc , so it wasnt that much of a shock )
i would also just do the upstairs WFP, then you can do the downstairs and get it right first time ( non of this, it'll come good in a few cleans ) by hand downstairs you know it'll look good
What a lot of fannying about, start as you mean to go on, clean them properly with your wfp and let them see what a good job you can do with your system, don't p*ssy foot around apologising that you have to use wfp because of health & safety ect, tell them you use wfp because it is fantastic, that there frames and sills will be cleaned everytime and that the windows will stay cleaner for longer!!! ;)
aye, thats a cracking idea groundhog
leepaton1, just do as groundhog says, of course when you lose a 1/3 of your work, as least you can say " i told them good and proper ::), im the boss "
or you could play it safe and follow my idea ;)
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yeah what matt says ;D groundhog has a one size fits all idea that works regardless of location,budget etc,he is seldom wrong and his charisma more than compensates for any other shortcomings
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groundhog it may seem like fannying around too but im after a bit of advive mate i want to make sure im going the right way about and making the right decision on what to use when i start , i dont want to waste money that ive not really got .
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OK Leepaton follow these two amateurs advice and build yourself a very nice little average round, peronally I think you would be better off getting a job in Tescos, now thats really playing it safe!!!
When I first decided to take the plunge into full time window cleaning I asked for advice from a chap called Paul C Smith on another forum, he advised me to get straight into wfp, to go for an 800 ltr (min) van mount system and not to waste time messing about with trolleys and backpacks, to get my van sign written and to wear a uniform. To employ at the first opportunity so that you can concentrate on canvassing and growing your business, to set a high minimum charge and stick to it...... I could go on.
Where is Paul now? He now owns the massive Powerclene window cleaning business, and makes a fortune selling franchises in his business!!!
I wish I had listened to Paul from the start, so my advice is if you want to be average listen to mat or lj thorpe, if you want to be the best... listen to Paul!!!! ;)
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think big, be big
as long as you think your big, your big
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think big, be big
as long as you think your big, your big
Have you been drinking? ;D
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he hasnt been drinking your just illiterate
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think big, be big
as long as you think your big, your big
Have you been drinking? ;D
not since last october, apart from a few glass's of "baily's with a hint of mint" for christmas
my advice to this guy is to play it safe, he isnt in a possition to risk it all on the toss of a coin ( and thats what taking over work, doing it WFP up and down straight from the work go, is doing )
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groundhog it may seem like fannying around too but im after a bit of advive mate i want to make sure im going the right way about and making the right decision on what to use when i start , i dont want to waste money that ive not really got .
if you want world domination listen to a real pro like groundhog.He believes in himself and knows what he wants(and what everyone else wants ::)).If you want a start in wfp,would like to earn at least 3 or 4 times an hour what TESCO pay and only have about a grand or so to spend...well ;D
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As I said before if you want to be Mr Average, then listen to the kind of advice that the likes of mat and lj thorpe give you, but if you are really serious about going into business, then listen to me, or better still listen to Paul C Smith! now he's a proper businessman. It's not an easy option, but if you are prepared to work hard then success can be yours, don't settle for average, the sky really is the limit in this game!!! ;)
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have you ever stopped to think that a view of the world based solely one one perspective may not be just a little one sided....
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have you ever stopped to think that a view of the world based solely one one perspective may not be just a little one sided....
Exactly, you are giving your perspective and I am giving mine, its up to Leepaton1 what advice he wants to take. Its entirely up to him, I can only advise him what I would do in that situation, just as you are advising him based on what you would do. Is that ok with you??? >:(
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im sure Paul C Smith has done very well, he might be living in his million poud house etc etc, he might sell a francise to unsuspecting wannabe window cleaners ( thats another dsicussion though )
this is about a guy who has 120 houses of some1, wants to keep the work and is asking about the best way
lets be honest
its not a goog idea to arrive at the work and squirt some water over them, take the money and hope they understand that for a few cleans they will not be 100 % , hope that he doesnt lose loads of work
surely in this instance you must be able to see the benefit of playing it safe
in 12 months when he is sorted and has more work, he can then look into a van mount doing WFP up and down and it will then be a choice to risk a little
but for the time being, playing it safe is the way to go
dont run before you can walk and a great oak tree out of a little acorn spring to mind
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its not a goog idea to arrive at the work and squirt some water over them, take the money and hope they understand that for a few cleans they will not be 100 % , hope that he doesnt lose loads of work
Who said anything about squirting water over them and hoping for the best? I'm talking about cleaning the windows properly with wfp, I never tell the customers that they may not be perfect for the first few cleans! that is asking for trouble! I always give them an extra scrub and rinse on first cleans and I never get any problems with them, and I don't get people cancelling due to wfp, I think I had one old dear cancel because she didn't like her path getting wet! Don't try to scare this poor guy into thinking that if he uses wfp he will have a mass exodus of customers! because if he cleans them properly it won't happen. (whats goog?) ;D
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I cant see any reason for a customer to wait for 3 cleans for a satisfactory result from wfp :o If you follow whats said on here and it is mostly good advice then the customers will see the advantage straight away. ok so a first clean takes twice as long, "frames first then around again for the glass" you will make that up on the next clean you need to invest your time to reap the rewards later.
I have not had a compliant yet about wfp.
Even going around twice as you describe, I still sometimes encounter imperfections oon some jobs. Doing it twice on the first clean does cut out a lot of it though.
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this is what i did, i was in the same situation as you, i did the round the first few times with ladder and WFP system, the hard to reach windows i did with WFP ( inc the bath room ) i then did the windows i was sure i was safe enough on ( i also used a rojik ladder stopper and a sand bag )
this served to purposes to me, 1. i met the customers and got to know them a little, 2. it got them used to seeing the WFP trolley, i explained about the WAH regs AND MY SAFETY and i would as soon be going over to WFP upstairs ( now they had seen me use it on the hard to reach windows, above porches etc etc , so it wasnt that much of a shock )
i would also just do the upstairs WFP, then you can do the downstairs and get it right first time ( non of this, it'll come good in a few cleans ) by hand downstairs you know it'll look good
What a lot of fannying about, start as you mean to go on, clean them properly with your wfp and let them see what a good job you can do with your system, don't p*ssy foot around apologising that you have to use wfp because of health & safety ect, tell them you use wfp because it is fantastic, that there frames and sills will be cleaned everytime and that the windows will stay cleaner for longer!!! ;)
Personally, I leave out the bit about staying clean for longer. I don't want them trying to reduce the frequency.
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groundhog it may seem like fannying around too but im after a bit of advive mate i want to make sure im going the right way about and making the right decision on what to use when i start , i dont want to waste money that ive not really got .
I had about a 5% turnaround in my customers base through switching to WFP. Some of it was my choice as some of the access was trickier once I started with it. I could afford to lose the moaniest 5% though. However, I've gained a lot more than I've lost through switching because there are lots of places that are not accessible by cleaning the trad way as well..
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OK Leepaton follow these two amateurs advice and build yourself a very nice little average round, peronally I think you would be better off getting a job in Tescos, now thats really playing it safe!!!
When I first decided to take the plunge into full time window cleaning I asked for advice from a chap called Paul C Smith on another forum, he advised me to get straight into wfp, to go for an 800 ltr (min) van mount system and not to waste time messing about with trolleys and backpacks, to get my van sign written and to wear a uniform. To employ at the first opportunity so that you can concentrate on canvassing and growing your business, to set a high minimum charge and stick to it...... I could go on.
Where is Paul now? He now owns the massive Powerclene window cleaning business, and makes a fortune selling franchises in his business!!!
I wish I had listened to Paul from the start, so my advice is if you want to be average listen to mat or lj thorpe, if you want to be the best... listen to Paul!!!! ;)
My own preference is somewhere in between (at the moment anyway). Being an employer is stressful for a lot of people. No point being wealthy if you have a mental breakdown or a heart attack. I think window cleaning is great because we can build our businesses to suit our own personalities and/or perceived limitations. Some are happy with it as a part time supplement to a regular PAYE job. Others like myself are content with (for now) trying to maximise their incomes as sole traders. Other people are more driven and wish to employ several people. A few are extremely highly motivated and want to build a major business. For me the important thing is to only break out of my comfort zone a little piece at a time because that way, I find that the stress levels are more manageable. More chance of me maintaining good mental and physical health that way. Although many have thicker skins than me, I believe that most people are affected in some way if they try to run before they can walk. And even if they cope with it themselves, they may find that their home life suffers. Not much point in building an empire and feeling stress-free to suddenly notice the the wife and kids have gone because they haven't been getting enough attention.
Building a window cleaning business (or any business for that matter) isn't just about crunching numbers and working hard.
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its not a goog idea to arrive at the work and squirt some water over them, take the money and hope they understand that for a few cleans they will not be 100 % , hope that he doesnt lose loads of work
Who said anything about squirting water over them and hoping for the best? I'm talking about cleaning the windows properly with wfp, I never tell the customers that they may not be perfect for the first few cleans! that is asking for trouble!
I don't tell them that either. I just tell them that although it's often possible to obtain a good quality job on the first clean, on some windows, it sometimes takes two or three cleans achieve a top notch job. Exactly the same thing but sometimes, how you word things can be important. :)
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Im in the a similar position, im turning 30 this year, worked hard since 16, been a Kitchen Manager for 6 years, and now a carer for 4 years, now decided to set up my own business but im in the lucky position of keeping my current job while i build a business as i work 07.15 till 08.30 then back at 15.30 till 21.30 so ill start dropping shifts as i grow, I know ill be tired due too 2 jobs but im giving myself a year to sort, Im a ambitious person so i want to get maximum as poss, I dont want to drive a car with 25L tanks with Ladders etc (thats not a dig at people out there that do this) as Im in the lucky position of having 7k to start and a job that pays the mortgage and bills so know it wouldnt be easy for other people.I decided a year ago that this is what i wanted to do so done lots of overtime with the backing of misses and spending quality time with kids on the days i have off (kids cant wait till i get van, 8 year old son has already asked if when hes 16 he can come work with me) I'd have to say that The Shiner has given great info along with everyone else as i see everyones side. I thought about starting just trad but thought what a pain it would be to then have to go around all custys (already picking up the w/c slang) and let them know i've changed to wfp, so why dont you you introduce yourself to the custys and at the same time tell them the method you will be using (wfp) instead of introducing yourself then going back a few weeks later to tell them about the change. sorry to go on and good luck to you as your in a great position, just go for it and hit it hard. keep us posted on how you get on.
Chris
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its not a goog idea to arrive at the work and squirt some water over them, take the money and hope they understand that for a few cleans they will not be 100 % , hope that he doesnt lose loads of work
Who said anything about squirting water over them and hoping for the best? I'm talking about cleaning the windows properly with wfp, I never tell the customers that they may not be perfect for the first few cleans! that is asking for trouble! I always give them an extra scrub and rinse on first cleans and I never get any problems with them, and I don't get people cancelling due to wfp, I think I had one old dear cancel because she didn't like her path getting wet! Don't try to scare this poor guy into thinking that if he uses wfp he will have a mass exodus of customers! because if he cleans them properly it won't happen. (whats goog?) ;D
i was tired, goog
the thing is though, we know WFP can do a good job, sometime it doesnt, these new customers will not have loyality to Lee, so after a first clean that isnt 100 %, they could well say " that brush thingy doesnt work well ", we have read a fair few cases on here when customers dont liek it
i know my "Play it safe idea" might be boring and will not earn the guy 500 quid a day, but it'll help him get known by the customers, it'll help them come to terms with change and it'll help him keep the customers he has
i guess though, thats the way i have, play it safe,
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"My own preference is somewhere in between (at the moment anyway). Being an employer is stressful for a lot of people. No point being wealthy if you have a mental breakdown or a heart attack. I think window cleaning is great because we can build our businesses to suit our own personalities and/or perceived limitations. Some are happy with it as a part time supplement to a regular PAYE job. Others like myself are content with (for now) trying to maximise their incomes as sole traders. Other people are more driven and wish to employ several people. A few are extremely highly motivated and want to build a major business. For me the important thing is to only break out of my comfort zone a little piece at a time because that way, I find that the stress levels are more manageable. More chance of me maintaining good mental and physical health that way. Although many have thicker skins than me, I believe that most people are affected in some way if they try to run before they can walk. And even if they cope with it themselves, they may find that their home life suffers. Not much point in building an empire and feeling stress-free to suddenly notice the the wife and kids have gone because they haven't been getting enough attention.
Building a window cleaning business (or any business for that matter) isn't just about crunching numbers and working hard. "
I would say this guy knows what he is talking about and I for one agree with him.
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What you have failed to account for is the Groundhog charm
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? strange ....cos ya keep it well hid on here
genius ;D
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What you have failed to account for is the Groundhog charm
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? strange ....cos ya keep it well hid on here
genius ;D
fair play, it was ;)
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What you have failed to account for is the Groundhog charm
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? strange ....cos ya keep it well hid on here
genius ;D
Genius is not a word that I would associate with Mr Thorpe!! ;D
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its not a goog idea to arrive at the work and squirt some water over them, take the money and hope they understand that for a few cleans they will not be 100 % , hope that he doesnt lose loads of work
Who said anything about squirting water over them and hoping for the best? I'm talking about cleaning the windows properly with wfp, I never tell the customers that they may not be perfect for the first few cleans! that is asking for trouble! I always give them an extra scrub and rinse on first cleans and I never get any problems with them, and I don't get people cancelling due to wfp, I think I had one old dear cancel because she didn't like her path getting wet! Don't try to scare this poor guy into thinking that if he uses wfp he will have a mass exodus of customers! because if he cleans them properly it won't happen. (whats goog?) ;D
I cleaned them excellently and lost dozens.
Some areas none, some areas lots.
So actually Matt is just telling him like it is and not hyping it up to be magic.
He may lose 2, he may lose 40.
You don't know his customers, only your own.
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I know that I've only lost one customer due to wfp, and gained over 100! And the one I lost would have been dumped anyway, a right pain in the arse!! Anyway I'm not going to give out anymore advice on here from now on as I only get attacked for telling it as I see it, and I'm not going to become one of the sheep! >:(
Good Bye :(
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Ok observations from Malc Gold who three years ago went from trad to trolley, then added a backpack, then a 125L tank in his estate, then a 175L tank in his estate and then in Nov 2006 bit the bullet, leased a new doblo and put in a 400l tank.
In hindsight I should have gone for a van right away. I was working on a shoestring and unreliable cars forced my hand. If you can get credit then get a new van.
What I did right I got from this forum and it is the most important bit of advice I can offer:-
When you change from trad to wfp you must communicate that to your customers before you do it. In writing - twice. Once that it's happening and then again the first time you clean them.
When you do your last trad clean give them a letter explaining why you must change over. Dwell on health and safety, how they may be liable if your insurer will not pay out because you are using unapproved methods and you have an accident etc. Tell them how the windows will be left wet to dry to a clear finish, tell them the upvc will be cleaned. Do not back down on this. Dwell on the positive and warn of possible consequences - we all "know" what insurers are like! DO NOT be apologetic!
Switch over your round an area at a time. So that over about 3 months all areas will be changed.
I lost five custy's out of 220 - three were unavoidable (old georgian original leaky frames) two were because I was complacent and didn't do the above.
My average earnings per day are about half to two-thirds as much again what they were when trad.
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Note re: Squeaky.
I honestly believe Squeaky lost so many because he wasn't convinced himself that wfp would do a better job.
You still aren't really are you Roger?
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well i did my first day yesterday using a trolly that ive borrowed from a cleaner whos helping me out . i must say i was impressed at the results i did find it to take some time on each house but its new to me so after time i should speed up . i managed to do 12 houses which minght not be a lot but its a start , out of the 12 i only had 3 customers question me as to why i hadnt dryed them after i explained they were all more than happy to give me a chance . thanks for the advice youve been giving im off to do some more now :)
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Note re: Squeaky.
I honestly believe Squeaky lost so many because he wasn't convinced himself that wfp would do a better job.
You still aren't really are you Roger?
I think it does a fine job Malc.
Takes a few cleans to trust it though, and by then some have deserted.
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Why don't you do upstairs with backpack and down trad. That way you won't spend much to start and you'll get some practise trad.
For my opinion too many rely on water fed pole for everything.
Good window cleaner should be skiled in all tools of trade. Sometimes a normal trad extension pole is even quicker than wfp. The more you spend to get kit the longer you'll have to be working to make it pay for itself.
I went DI and backpack to start wfp and grew as the business grows. Unless you got loads of cash to spend.
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Why don't you do upstairs with backpack and down trad. That way you won't spend much to start and you'll get some practise trad.
For my opinion too many rely on water fed pole for everything.
Good window cleaner should be skiled in all tools of trade. Sometimes a normal trad extension pole is even quicker than wfp. The more you spend to get kit the longer you'll have to be working to make it pay for itself.
I went DI and backpack to start wfp and grew as the business grows. Unless you got loads of cash to spend.
indeed
i would get a cheap RO / DI though, 80 quid from RO-MAN for a 50 GPD unit ( must be cheaper than just DI )