Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike Halliday on February 14, 2008, 04:35:11 pm
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quoted on this suite yesturday
you can see the problem, the top colour came off with just a gentle rub of cleaner;
i told the customer that the suite was beyond normal cleaning, and they had 3 choices, not have it cleaned, have it cleaned and the topcolour re-appliad or they have it cleaned and total removal of the top colour.
they chose the last one
what would you use to remove the top colour? or perhaps another option
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more photos
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Mike I thought your last post had generated lots of interest :) well here we go again ;D
I thought you were talking about a chesterfield antique finish, from the pictures this looks like a rub off or a two tone, either way straight forward ;)
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you're right Paul I did say it was an antique effect but on the second visit I realised my mistake.
mike
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Mike, these are called bucket seats and lift off the wooden frame with ease, so you could take it away to do over night.
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It looks like a world of leather suite.
I would fix the damage area by spraying the top colour on. You could then sell the cusomter the option to have the rest of the suite re-sealed using a leather finish. Rather than strip the colour off and recolour.
Its best to keep things simple, re-spraying that with colour wouldn't be the easiest thing to do insitu.
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Ben she wants the suite cleaning, I think there is a heavy deposit of nicotine sat on it, the cloth was dark brown
perhaps I should use the mild cleaner see if this effects the top coat, but I only rubbed the ultra in with just my finger and it took off the top colour.
the perfect option would be too clean it without removing the top colour but I need to remove the dirt and Nicotine with some thing that is so mild it doesn't harm the top colour, I have quoted a high price so time isn't an issue
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Hi Mike you can pick em mate
Tony 8)
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Mike,
The difficult thing is, if you wiped the leather with a damp cloth, you run the risk of removing colour. Its not so much down to the chemicals used but more with the rubbing action created as you clean it.
Since the suite needs cleaning. I would very gently clean the sofa, and then go over and touch in any areas that lose colour. Just lightly mist the area with an airbrush to re-instate the two tone effect.
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I have also come across this type of problem suite. A two tone which came off if you used just a damp cloth without any cleaning agent. The suite was about six years old and the customer had taken most of the top coat off on the main seating area's. Even the area's that do not get any use were not cleanable. Would this be a fault from the manufacturer or something that happens over a period of time with the use of the wrong product?
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Brilliant pictures Mick for marketing. With the heading this too could happen to your furniture if not properly maintained. :'(
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Looking at the photos you have 2 colours to put ontop off the base colour on the worn arm- brown then black ( roughly speaking) which doesnt look too difficult. Why is the back of the back cushion so worn? Its surprising that the colour comes off with cleaning on the rest of the chair / suite , it must be more worn than it looks.
#How about just colour the bad areas to tone in then top finish it all to lock it in.
Would this work or would there be adhesion problems?
Mike
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Could be that the customer wants it cleaning because it smells of tobacco, cleaning would reduce the smell but take the colour which means a full redye.
Shaun
PS looks like there wasn't any finish on it anyway, I think Paul mentioned this on his leather day that these could be buggers!
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In this instance we would agree with Ben.
In this case it was obvious that this was a 2 tone leather and that the top coat was coming off but a pre clean survey is always imperative as some 2 tone leathers are very difficult to spot and starting to clean even with a damp cloth can cause problems. A weak top coat may be removed simply with water.
Very gentle clean which will probably remove more colour then recolour and blend in (colour mixng will be difficult) and seal the whole suite with a clear coat top finish.
The brown stain coming off which you assume is nicotine is probably top coat.
There will be numerous problems if you atempt to strip off the whole top coat.
Seeing as the suite is so easy to remove I would take it away and do the work in your workshop to give you space and time.
Just confirm that the finish is wearing off rather than peeling off as these are two distinctly different problems.
Derek on this type of leather at that sort of age it is difficult to tell exactly what has caused the problem, it could be wear and dirt, it could be poor finish or incorrect cleaning products or a combination.
If the problem occured within 12 months it should always be referred back to the retailer.
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Mike did not get a lot of time on this as I was going out. Having looked at the pictures in more detail,I think it has been given a two tonr effect by covering a red/brown pigment over the original green colour. This is highlighted in the picture of the arm,if you look at the stitching it is reddy brown the same colour as the top coat and prob the same colour as what is coming off on to the cloth.On this suite of which I have cleaned a few I have not seen red stiching yarn used before, so I think it has been sprayed over and either no finish applied or a poor finish applied.
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I'm attending to this suite on Wednesday with a view to cleaning it, I've already discussed with the client about the removal of the top coat to give a uniformed appearance and she agreed to this, but after what has been said by Ben & Judy I'm not not willing to attempt a full removal, so will try and a 'gentle' clean without harming the top coat,
Ben has said the rubbing action might remove the top coat so I'm going to massage a mild cleaner onto the surface then either dab it off with soft towels or vacuum it off with a wet vac.
I'm hoping to remove the dirt without any harsh rubbing. I'm not confident with my colour matching to make up the colour to re-apply so its going to be a tricky job.
to be truthful I'd rather walk away from this job but now its too late, I'm going to make it perfectly clear to the client that in my opinion it should be left as it is, but if she wants me to work on it I will, but I'll get a disclaimer signed
any suggestion will be gratefully received.
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Mike you do right to get a disclaimer signed as if the finish is this weak then water on its own would probably strip it. If you want anyone to do the full job then just get in touch and we will help.
I don't think the vacuum method will be of any benefit, just use towels or paper towles to absorb the mositure and this will remove surface dirt.
We saw a similar one to this on Saturday and restoraiton is a very viable option if you can do the work. It would be a good idea to have it restored as the problem will only get worse now that the top finish has worn off. It leaves the leather very vulnerable.
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fingers crossed, but if you clean all the top coat off..........she my like the colour beneath better!
If it goes wrong, you are welcome to bring it up to us and we can help you with the restoration of it.
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All the top coat will not clean off as areas are worn at a different rate. This is always the problem with removing the whole of a second colour on a two tone suite.. There are 3 different areas of wear on a suite and these will be reflected dutring the clean.
Restoration is fairly straight forward and should be on offer to the customer.
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All the top coat will not clean off as areas are worn at a different rate.
i was joking
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Mike this should not be too hard and I think after you have done it you will see that.
It is a bucket seat leather so what about just taking a chair ( minus frame) to you garage and working on it first to see what you have to do to it. Pitty im not nearer to you.
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she does like the underside colour and has agreed to total removal of the top coat but I don't think it will all come off easily.
the reapplication of the top coat wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact its a 2 tone effect and I'll be the first to admit its beyond my level of skill to reapply.
on Wednesday morning I'm going to try again to talk her out of it, I might even just walk away from it but this woman has put her faith in me to do something, and I feel obligated.
to be truthful and without being boastful ;) ;) I'm a very good talker and portray a very knowledgeable persona, if I said pixies come out at night and pee all over the top coat she would believe me, so I could get a disclaimer signed and knacker it up but I want to do what's right for this woman and give her a suite she is happy with, at the moment she hates the suite because she thinks its disgustingly dirty.
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Mike I think your skill level may be better than you think,and you wont know till you try. If she is that unhappy with it then tell her your unsure of the finish but will take one seat away for a few days to try but cannot guarentee full rstoration .As long as she is happy with you trying then have a go. If it does not work out ( im sure it will though) I will come over and do it with you.
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Paul I could take it away but I'm snowed under with work I haven't the time to spend on this job, I want to just deal with it and then forget about it.
I think we should just leave this topic now and I'll see how it goes on Wednesday, I think I will get a disclaimer signed on cleaning one chair, then we can re-evaluate the result and then they can decided if they want me to continue, I'f I totally balls it up then I only have one chair to sort out.
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Mike have a go mate if she is happy to sign a disclaimer you got to start some where good luck Tony
ps hope to get to yours sometime this week
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Mike
Stripping the top coat is easier than keeping it in place...............I had several suites a few years ago when Reids started importing and the top coat literally washed off.
rob
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Mike if you don't think your up to the job why take it on,you are leaving yourself wide open for a claim disclaimer signed or not.
The top coat will probably come off easily on the wear areas but on the back will not be as easy to remove.I'm sure ltt sell aerosols to replace colour if it does come off then its a case of putting the finish back on.
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Mike how did you get on?
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its on wednesday
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cleaned chair this morning witht he customers consent & after them signing a disclaimer,
they did'nt want me to continue
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Hi,
I have a friend in your area who could do that job for your customer if they wanted it restored. Let me know if thats the case.
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thanks Ben but they can't afford more than £150 which is probably less that your mate would want for such a big job,
plus it would take 2-3 hours to remove the dirt before starting. it is very bad
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Mike that is still a good little project for you and once done will give you loads of confidence for more leather challenges.
Why not say to her that £150 is the price and ok you are not going to make much out of it as it will cost around £75 in solvents,cleaners,dyes,topcoats etc.
But if she is prepared to have it done over say a month or so time period,you could take it to your garage, one unit at a time and stip it and recolour it then there is no pressure on your time ( evenings and weekend work) and you gt a really good project to practice on and the customer is getting a very cheap job and not having to go out and but a new suite. WIN WIN ;)