Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Davo on February 10, 2008, 08:05:54 am
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Interesting thread, unfortunately locked.
Its all about balance, arguments tend to focus on extremes, £500 van against £30 k. There is a great deal of ground in between.
I think the issue is based on risk to reward. Spending money doesnt guarantee you success, just in the same way that doing everything "on the cheap" doesnt guarantee success either. Investing money so that it gives you the best chance of success is the key to any successful business.
If a better vehicle means that you spend less time off the road ( Earning less money) means you can carry more water ( chance to earn more money) gets new customers to notice what you do ( chance to earn more money) then invest whatever figure your business or personal finances can afford.
However IMO a £5000 vehicle correctly presented and signwritten is worth more to your business than an unliveried brand new van. The way in which you conduct yourself when your dealing with customers is worth more than the latest pole.
But being the nicest most reliable friendly fella will only get you so far. saying that, maybe the argument is how far do you want to go?
Mark
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Good balanced answer, I locked it myself because i felt i had heard both sides which is what i wanted and couldn't see the point in going further and ending in a slanging match where two extremes would get upset. I only wanted views and not attacks. ;)
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Interesting thread, unfortunately locked.
Its all about balance, arguments tend to focus on extremes, £500 van against £30 k. There is a great deal of ground in between.
I think the issue is based on risk to reward. Spending money doesnt guarantee you success, just in the same way that doing everything "on the cheap" doesnt guarantee success either. Investing money so that it gives you the best chance of success is the key to any successful business.
If a better vehicle means that you spend less time off the road ( Earning less money) means you can carry more water ( chance to earn more money) gets new customers to notice what you do ( chance to earn more money) then invest whatever figure your business or personal finances can afford.
However IMO a £5000 vehicle correctly presented and signwritten is worth more to your business than an unliveried brand new van. The way in which you conduct yourself when your dealing with customers is worth more than the latest pole.
But being the nicest most reliable friendly fella will only get you so far. saying that, maybe the argument is how far do you want to go?
Mark
I was going to post a reply then discovered that I couldn't. Not sure why it was locked. Maybe some posts were deleted before it was locked. I've gone down the middle road with this issue myself. I'm not into DIYing a system and would rather buy a working system myself. I got a second hand van that was under 3 years old. In the first few months I spent about £15,000 of borrowed money on van/system/poles etc. In all, over two and a half years, I've probably done about £18,000 as my methods have evolved.
Could I have done it for less? Yes.
Would it have been more aggravation for me? Yes
IMO, neither way is wrong. The beauty of window cleaning is that we build our businesses in the way that is most suitable for our individual personalities.
However, some of the jobs I've done would have meant several return journeys if I had done the trolley/containers route. There would have been a lot more humping stuff around which my back isn't really up to as well.
In all, the loan for the van system costs me £200 a month. The credit card repayments for the other stuff I've bought are about £100 a month (and I do swap this to different cards to keep the interest down). Also, the bigger van is more to run than a smaller van. I suppose that, in all, my extra outgoings are about £330 a month. My extra income dwarfs that - though it took a while to build the workload up higher to compensate for the extra speed of WFP. Also, bear in mind that the taxman helps me pay for this in the form of capital allowances or, in the case of smaller items and consumables, straight year on year tax relief.
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Good balanced answer, I locked it myself because i felt i had heard both sides which is what i wanted and couldn't see the point in going further and ending in a slanging match where two extremes would get upset. I only wanted views and not attacks. ;)
I wrote my response before reading this BTW. :)
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I thought it was a good thread. Trouble is Saturday night discussions often get a bit heated.
My view is I spend money to make my life easier. The things I buy make a positive contribution in some way to my working life.
In my opinion the flash vans and uniforms are a product of the franchises that seem to be springing up. The people who take out these franchises are usually newbies if not complete outsiders and are told that this image will make them stand out above the rest of the window cleaning world.
That may be true or it may not, we can certainly debate it for ever and not agree. What is probably more true is that the people selling the franchises need to convince potential franchisees that they hold the secret of success and the visual reinforcement of a branded image helps them sell franchises.
Whether it helps the franchisee remains to be seen. Some franchises in the cleaning sector have made it, I am thinking of Molly Maids and Servicemaster.
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Trouble is Saturday night discussions often get a bit heated.
Lager fueled? ::)
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Without doubt. The replies get more "interesting" as the night wears on. But the lads have probably had a hard week, they need to let off steam.
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There wasn't a great deal of disagreement, just people saying the same things in different ways.
I think you can summarize what I say on most subjects as trying to apply the clearest and most logical thinking to the topic; investment in business, hot systems, marketing etc whatever, and taking best practice and experience from other fields to try and inform this.
Notice I used the word try, try to inform etc,and I didn't claim I was right or any more logical than anyone else.
Nice if we could all put our case and then lock the topic, but life isn't like that.My level of investment is very similar to shiners as is my income.The difference may be how long I've been doing it and my willingness to learn.
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I could see several people becoming upset about this : the guy with the cheap van in the post who doesn't deserve to be insulted in any way, and one or two guys who have gone down the other route who have to justify their expenditure in a very forceful way. I got the views i wanted from both sides and locked it to try and stop any insults.
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My grandad always used to say "the best horse in the stable is nearly always the most trouble"
Real discussions about real issues, not a problem, but you were right to lock it.
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The man who has got his head screwed on is the man who has actually got the work , not the man who thinks he knows how to get the work.
This is not a dig at anyone by the way.
Dave
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The man who has got his head screwed on is the man who has actually got the work , not the man who thinks he knows how to get the work.
This is not a dig it anyone by the way.
Dave
Very true!
;D ;D
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The man who has got his head screwed on is the man who has actually got the work , not the man who thinks he knows how to get the work.
This is not a dig it anyone by the way.
Dave
At last, common sense prevails ;)
Davo- Good opening post, you're right the original post did end up at extremes of the scale & lost all balance. My hands are up, got drawn in a little ::)
Tony
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The man who has got his head screwed on is the man who has actually got the work , not the man who thinks he knows how to get the work.
This is not a dig at anyone by the way.
Dave
So you can't think through or intelectualise it, you have to do it?
I've always been a dreamer, often pipe dreams, but when I do connect i tend to hit it out of the ground.
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The man who has got his head screwed on is the man who has actually got the work , not the man who thinks he knows how to get the work.
This is not a dig at anyone by the way.
Dave
So you can't think through or intelectualise it, you have to do it?
I've always been a dreamer, often pipe dreams, but when I do connect i tend to hit it out of the ground.
Let us know what happens when you connect this time Mr.Sol. Please ;)
Tony
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The man who has got his head screwed on is the man who has actually got the work , not the man who thinks he knows how to get the work.
This is not a dig at anyone by the way.
Dave
indeed and plenty of " DIY'ers " on the lwoer end of the " money spent scale" have the work
the domestic customer also like the idea of the " honest joe, working man " it goes down well, the guy who works in a office like to think of himself as slightly better off, in many cases he isnt, but its what you let him belive that counts and also lets you get away with charging good money for a unskilled / semiskilled job
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MR Sol
It is down to the individual not the tools.
The right tools and image might help but it wont give you a business.
I know guys in this business turning over £250k using home made systems and old vans.
Also know other guys turning over the same with off the shelf systems.
It is down to your own business accumin to succeed whatever tools you use.
Dave
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the domestic customer also like the idea of the " honest joe, working man " it goes down well
LOL only if thats what they are themselves, in which case they are of no interest to me as customers. This and the other thread has given me a useful insight into the cobble-together mentality. Clearly as with all trades peobably there are window cleaners and there are window cleaners.
FLIP, whats happening in the north sea? Anyone know? Is it terrorism?
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There s always a risk when you buy a second hand vehicle. My last van cost £300 and I got two and a half years out of it. I have a trailer, and tow bar fitted on my car.
If anything goes wrong with the van I can still work from the car and trailer. This is an advantage if you use a trolley system.
To make a large investment in my business would in my case be throwing money away, as I said before, I'm 65 and have all the work I can handle.
A tidy lettered van can bring you work, it's advertising your business, but the vast majority of clients have no idea about WFP systems, and wouldn't know the difference between a brand new Ionics or a well put together DIY system.
Say you phone around looking for commercial work, If your lucky you find a prospective client, you then have to go and talk to them, they are usually busy people so you ask their requirements, look at the job, and give them a price. Some clients may say "fine carry on", the majority will promise to get back to you.
The prospective client has remained in the building throughout, and has not even seen your van parked outside, let alone have a clue about what's inside it.
An Escort 55 is the smallest van that meets my requirements, I do over 50 miles a day and the Escort is good on diesel. At £350 I can forget about depreciation, and the tax man gives me £4,500 a year to run it. It's not rocket science, I run my business in the most cost efficient way. Dai
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the domestic customer also like the idea of the " honest joe, working man " it goes down well
LOL only if thats what they are themselves, in which case they are of no interest to me as customers. This and the other thread has given me a useful insight into the cobble-together mentality. Clearly as with all trades peobably there are window cleaners and there are window cleaners.
FLIP, whats happening in the north sea? Anyone know? Is it terrorism?
you would be s.prised to see the houses on my round, i do alot of bigger houses, not your average 3 bed semi
its funny how people get it into their heads that the perception they have of others must be right
of course you with your 100 quid a clean houses that you do 10 a day, i guess your the exception ::) ::) but hey, you have said it yourself, your special ::)
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There s always a risk when you buy a second hand vehicle. My last van cost £300 and I got two and a half years out of it. I have a trailer, and tow bar fitted on my car.
If anything goes wrong with the van I can still work from the car and trailer. This is an advantage if you use a trolley system.
To make a large investment in my business would in my case be throwing money away, as I said before, I'm 65 and have all the work I can handle.
A tidy lettered van can bring you work, it's advertising your business, but the vast majority of clients have no idea about WFP systems, and wouldn't know the difference between a brand new Ionics or a well put together DIY system.
Say you phone around looking for commercial work, If your lucky you find a prospective client, you then have to go and talk to them, they are usually busy people so you ask their requirements, look at the job, and give them a price. Some clients may say "fine carry on", the majority will promise to get back to you.
The prospective client has remained in the building throughout, and has not even seen your van parked outside, let alone have a clue about what's inside it.
An Escort 55 is the smallest van that meets my requirements, I do over 50 miles a day and the Escort is good on diesel. At £350 I can forget about depreciation, and the tax man gives me £4,500 a year to run it. It's not rocket science, I run my business in the most cost efficient way. Dai
Dai,
I presume its taken you many years of hard work to reach the position that you are in now. To be honest I feel that many who are newcomers to this business (myself included) are looking for the quick route, or should I say the route of least resistance. Not many enter a trade thinking " well 60 hours up a ladder for £200 a week will do me" But the new technology is partly to blame for that, its a safer job now.
The way you work works for you, and noone with any sense will argue with you, but just say for arguments sake you were 30 years younger entering this business, do you not feel you would approach things differently. And by that I mean, in the early years do you think you would have got to where you are now quicker if you had done things differently?
Mark
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the domestic customer also like the idea of the " honest joe, working man " it goes down well
LOL only if thats what they are themselves, in which case they are of no interest to me as customers. This and the other thread has given me a useful insight into the cobble-together mentality. Clearly as with all trades peobably there are window cleaners and there are window cleaners.
FLIP, whats happening in the north sea? Anyone know? Is it terrorism?
Ok, i'll cut to the chase & say what most viewers are thinking.
Tennet clean- you are an a**hole, good luck to you in your own little dream world with your (smaller than most) thingy! ;)
Tony
;D ;D ;D, most viewers, thats a little harsh, i bet its only 98 % of them, i am being kind here, it'll be higher than that, but im a thoughtfull kind of soul, i guess its because im a cobbler and i get to loads of soles ;) ;)
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Wait till my promotion to moderator comes through you two are both in for it!
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Apply for the position. I reckon you'd make a good moderator.
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Wait till my promotion to moderator comes through you two are both in for it!
Apply for the position. I reckon you'd make a good moderator.
Ha ha, me too!! ;D
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Why is everyone attacking tennet? I think he makes some very good points and I would totally agree with some of it. I too target wealthy areas and large houses, it makes good sense if you think about it. I don't think it matters what system you use though, anyone should be able to put together a simple van mount system for a few hundred pounds that can do everything that an expensive Ionics set up can do.
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i also target certain houses though i do take on smaller jobs if they are in the right area and are happy to pay a tenner min charge.
The trouble with tennets perspective is that it takes a long time to gain the type of customers he wants and therefore is of no use information wise to the majority of window cleaners who need to earn enough money to pay the bills asap. And that for better or for worse is by taking on the properties or customers that tennet writes off.
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Why is everyone attacking tennet? I think he makes some very good points and I would totally agree with some of it. I too target wealthy areas and large houses, it makes good sense if you think about it. I don't think it matters what system you use though, anyone should be able to put together a simple van mount system for a few hundred pounds that can do everything that an expensive Ionics set up can do.
Oh i clean the wealthy area's, but because i have a in the words of tuppenceclean " cobbled together system" im not worthy of calling myself a window cleaner
it seems that tuppenceclean does like to dish it out, as most of his posts are either just wind-ups or just plain idiotic ( im honestly not sure, i would hope its that he likes a wind-up )
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The trouble with tennets perspective is that it takes a long time to gain the type of customers he wants and therefore is of no use information wise to the majority of window cleaners who need to earn enough money to pay the bills asap. And that for better or for worse is by taking on the properties or customers that tennet writes off.
tuppenceclean also makes a point about being a "real window cleaner", i guess if you do clean 10 quid semi's, you fall into this
LOL only if thats what they are themselves, in which case they are of no interest to me as customers. This and the other thread has given me a useful insight into the cobble-together mentality. Clearly as with all trades peobably there are window cleaners and there are window cleaners.
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Wait till my promotion to moderator comes through you two are both in for it!
;D ;D
i notice you didnt disagree and jump tuppencecleans defence ;)
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i also target certain houses though i do take on smaller jobs if they are in the right area and are happy to pay a tenner min charge.
The trouble with tennets perspective is that it takes a long time to gain the type of customers he wants and therefore is of no use information wise to the majority of window cleaners who need to earn enough money to pay the bills asap. And that for better or for worse is by taking on the properties or customers that tennet writes off.
i vote mark for moderator ;D spot on again mate without being anything other than diplomatic
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it would take the fun out of coming here if i had to trawl every post. I'm suprised there are only 2 moderators cos there's alot of stuff they have to read and if they are not here for a couple of days that's alot of posts to trawl.
There could be a couple more. People like matt or squeaky (cos chepstow seems to be the recruiting ground) or even getting tosh to come back as one as he was good. But it cramped his style unfortunately, he claimed.
I'm not that diplomatic lj thorpe, but it seems like it when you read other posts.
I do try not to antagonise people though cos its easy to misunderstand when there's no eye contact and i don't like burning bridges. It's against my nature. I still think mr solubility would make a good one if he wanted as he might be blunt towards peope at times but he's straight to the point. A good thing i reckon.
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Mark, If I was 30 years younger I would do things very differently, I would have ambition driving me.
If I had a mortgage to pay and had debts I would drive myself a lot harder. I would be out at weekends canvassing better paid work. Having a full round can be a disincentive, I choose to come on here when I could be improving my business, or even getting some of the jobs done around the house. I have 3 doors that have been waiting to get hung for months.
I can work really fast, but lose what I gain talking to customers, those little 2 hour jobs around the house now take 4 hours to complete.
I am taking life easier, and why not? It's great to be young and full of drive, working hard to provide for your future, but there comes a time when we start running out of future. We are all different, as are our circumstances.
I can understand a young guy that wants what he believes is the best possible gear to work with, new van, smart uniform, latest hot water system. If it gives him the confidence that he may lack without it, he may think it's essential.
Hey guys, we are only cleaning windows, the most important thing of all, is that we clean windows to a standard for which our customers are prepared to pay. End of story. The method you use to achieve that standard is irrelevant to the end product. As far as I am concerned I will always strive to maintain that standard, but at the lowest cost to myself. Costs are what's coming out of your pocket before you take your pay, and cutting costs is an essential part of running a successful business.
MAINTAIN THE STANDARD, CUT THE COSTS=£££££'S
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Hey guys, we are only cleaning windows, the most important thing of all, is that we clean windows to a standard for which our customers are prepared to pay. End of story. The method you use to achieve that standard is irrelevant to the end product. As far as I am concerned I will always strive to maintain that standard, but at the lowest cost to myself. Costs are what's coming out of your pocket before you take your pay, and cutting costs is an essential part of running a successful business.
MAINTAIN THE STANDARD, CUT THE COSTS=£££££'S
well said dai ;D nutshell for me that
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personall ithink the trouble is he,s an arrogant antagonistic ahole :o but diplomacy has never been one of my strengths
but he a window cleaner, not just any old window cleaner either ::) ::)
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I'll go with the first bit if that's okay, young, ambitious, full of drive, running toward the future- It's like you know me Dia!
Then the stuff about the latest gear, signed van, uniform, latest hot system, well, I was a bit embarrased to be honest. No matter I like to lead by example. Very diplomatic of you not to mention the skivers and slackers gang though but I see two of them jumped straight in.
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personall ithink the trouble is he,s an arrogant antagonistic ahole :o but diplomacy has never been one of my strengths
but he a window cleaner, not just any old window cleaner either ::) ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Then the stuff about the latest gear, signed van, uniform, latest hot system, well, I was a bit embarrased to be honest. No matter I like to lead by example. Very diplomatic of you not to mention the skivers and slackers gang though but I see two of them jumped straight in.
does that mean we offically have a gang now :P :P
you made 2 posts in this thread before me, so are you 1 of the "jumper in's ", it was 4 hours before i replied, as it happens i was out doing some of my comercail, i wont say what i earnt in 3 hours this morning, as i dont want to shatter the illusion that im a waster ;) , it was with a " cobbled system " aswell :P, oh and whilst i was out i only met 1 person who was the area manager, he brought me down a coffee and we had a brief chat about my campervan and his home in florida ( to play golf ), the other places had no sign of life, i guess they just dont want to see in the back of my van
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Dai,
Just to say a quick thankyou for your reply. Take care and keep busy ( well as busy as you want to be)
Mark
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I'll go with the first bit if that's okay, young, ambitious, full of drive, running toward the future- It's like you know me Dia
the future is a pine box mate run as fast as you want
Then the stuff about the latest gear, signed van, uniform, latest hot system, well, I was a bit embarrased to be honest. No matter I like to lead by example. Very diplomatic of you not to mention the skivers and slackers gang though but I see two of them jumped straight in.
how can i be a skiver if iam my own boss ??? ::) ::) as for slacker .....spot on mate and proud of it.... roll on summer and the three day week.....
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Posts like this really do me in some times , but everybody has a valid point , in some way or other everybody is right , in my case , i have a 4k van 2001 , uniform thats gettiin on a bit , £875 diy system , £150 signwritting , facelift pole .3x gf poles , cd player , crap flyers and cards , but i am still the cheapest and may i say the best window cleaner in my area by far , i just dont have the business head to move on a level , i try but its not within me , im not ashamed of my lack of drive , but i have some fantastic jobs , which i will never lose , i manage my bills , my family are happy and dont go short of anything , what more can i ask of life ?
Mind you , i could always go back to my previous job , £215 take home for 50+ hours , or i can stay where i am , no hassle , less hours for 3 times that , not a look at me comment , just the truth , and for the taxmen that are reading this , check my return chaps , im honest
Rich P @ F
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your van cost about 3 times mine but iam so with ya on everything else ;D ;D ;D mind you i would like a nice van i just cant push myself that hard......mind you 2 years ago i had a L reg astra ....now t reg scudo....does its job ...just ;)
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oh dear. it looks like macmac has joined the ranks of the "can't win this argument so resort to insults" brigade.
LOL
Matt mate, i'm sure your diy system does you well. Keep up the good work with those water barrells. Dont you let anyone tell you it looks crap. ;)
And all you others who are taking the opportunity to have a go, wake up and smell the coffee. New window cleaners are entering this business faster and faster and they have money to spend. Do you think you are going to compete if you dont invest in your image. The answer is NO.
The time of complacency is well and truly over. Blokes are leaving city jobs becomming window cleaners, they aint gonna fanny around with DIY. A recession is coming, that means redundancies, and that means people starting window cleaning with capital to spend. Foreign workers are taking over jobs here at an amazing rate, and to be quite honest who can blame them. They work harder, treat customers better and are content with less money.
I saw some polish fellas window cleaning the other day and I have to say they looked very smart. Much smarter than your average British "couldn't even be bothered to shave" window cleaner. Good for them, I hope they do great, they deserve to.
Window cleaning is easy pickings for them, and the only way we can compete is on quality. Do you think you will be able to continue to get buy with cobble together stuff in a crappy old van. I doubt it.
Groundhog mate, cheers for your support. But this forum is weighted towards the lower end of the window cleaning scale unfortunately, and they will never be convinced about good quality. The only thing they can do is mock those of us with the money and attitude to do things professionally. And when that fails they turn to insults.
Do I care? NO! I'll lap it up and ask for more. Would they say any of it to my face, LOL no because they are all keyboard warriors nothing else.
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oh dear. it looks like macmac has joined the ranks of the "can't win this argument so resort to insults" brigade.
LOL
Matt mate, i'm sure your diy system does you well. Keep up the good work with those water barrells. Dont you let anyone tell you it looks crap. ;)
And all you others who are taking the opportunity to have a go, wake up and smell the coffee. New window cleaners are entering this business faster and faster and they have money to spend. Do you think you are going to compete if you dont invest in your image. The answer is NO.
The time of complacency is well and truly over. Blokes are leaving city jobs becomming window cleaners, they aint gonna fanny around with DIY. A recession is coming, that means redundancies, and that means people starting window cleaning with capital to spend. Foreign workers are taking over jobs here at an amazing rate, and to be quite honest who can blame them. They work harder, treat customers better and are content with less money.
I saw some polish fellas window cleaning the other day and I have to say they looked very smart. Much smarter than your average British "couldn't even be bothered to shave" window cleaner. Good for them, I hope they do great, they certainly deserve to.
Window cleaning is easy pickings for them, and the only way we can compete is on quality. Do you think you will be able to continue to get buy with cobble together stuff in a crappy old van. I doubt it.
Groundhog mate, cheers for your support. But this forum is weighted towards the lower end of the window cleaning scale unfortunately, and they will never be convinced about good quality. The only thing they can do is mock those of us with the money and attitude to do things professionally. And when that fails they turn to insults.
Do I care? NO! I'll lap it up and ask for more. Would they say any of it to my face, LOL no because they are all keyboard warriors nothing else.
are you going to windex ?
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oh dear. it looks like macmac has joined the ranks of the "can't win this argument so resort to insults" brigade.
LOL
Matt mate, i'm sure your diy system does you well. Keep up the good work with those water barrells. Dont you let anyone tell you it looks crap. ;)
And all you others who are taking the opportunity to have a go, wake up and smell the coffee. New window cleaners are entering this business faster and faster and they have money to spend. Do you think you are going to compete if you dont invest in your image. The answer is NO.
The time of complacency is well and truly over. Blokes are leaving city jobs becomming window cleaners, they aint gonna fanny around with DIY. A recession is coming, that means redundancies, and that means people starting window cleaning with capital to spend. Foreign workers are taking over jobs here at an amazing rate, and to be quite honest who can blame them. They work harder, treat customers better and are content with less money.
I saw some polish fellas window cleaning the other day and I have to say they looked very smart. Much smarter than your average British "couldn't even be bothered to shave" window cleaner. Good for them, I hope they do great, they certainly deserve to.
Window cleaning is easy pickings for them, and the only way we can compete is on quality. Do you think you will be able to continue to get buy with cobble together stuff in a crappy old van. I doubt it.
Groundhog mate, cheers for your support. But this forum is weighted towards the lower end of the window cleaning scale unfortunately, and they will never be convinced about good quality. The only thing they can do is mock those of us with the money and attitude to do things professionally. And when that fails they turn to insults.
Do I care? NO! I'll lap it up and ask for more. Would they say any of it to my face, LOL no because they are all keyboard warriors nothing else.
the whole point is, and im sure you will fail to see it, its the qaulity of YOUR work, not what van you drive or what brand kit you have, if you have the work and your good, you will keep it ( i hope ) and when you have a reputaion for doing good work, you get more work
Oh and everything i will write on here i will gladly say to your face, make no mistake about that
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LOL you love me really.
You just misunderstand me. Think of me like your friendly neighborhood devils advocate. Only I'm actually right and you're not.
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Here here Matt , i agree , its the quality of the work not the system or van , i will say image is important , but i know, if some smarmy prick from the city turned up on one of my customers doorsteps, with a golden pole and diamond van , they would not take him on , due to the fact that i am so damn good !
And by the way Tennant, you may be a muscle bound freak , but i will gladly whoop yo ass at Windex , if you have the backbone to challenge me . ;D
P@F , P@F
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LOL you love me really.
You just misunderstand me. Think of me like your friendly neighborhood devils advocate. Only I'm actually right and you're not.
I love you. no , i do realy, got any business tips for me? ;)
Tony
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so are you going to windex ??? ??? ??? ??? if so get a t shirt with tc on it so we all know who you are ;D great marketing potential
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woo hoo hoo all you nasty mean men ganging up on me, anyone would think you had insecurity issues that I was bringing out. So much testosterone flying about, better watch my back eh.
LOL I havent decided whether or not I'm going to windex, the last one was somewhat crappy. But if I do i wont be hiding in the shadows. Do come and say "hello". I'll show you mine if you show me yours - systems that is.
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woo hoo hoo all you nasty mean men ganging up on me, anyone would think you had insecurity issues that I was bringing out. So much testosterone flying about, better watch my back eh.
LOL I havent decided whether or not I'm going to windex, the last one was somewhat crappy. But if I do i wont be hiding in the shadows. Do come and say "hello". I'll show you mine if you show me yours - systems that is.
note to all .....try reading these posts back to yourself in a "Dale Winton" stylee..made me laugh ;D
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Do you think you are going to compete if you dont invest in your image. The answer is NO.
The time of complacency is well and truly over. Blokes are leaving city jobs becomming window cleaners, they aint gonna fanny around with DIY. A recession is coming, that means redundancies, and that means people starting window cleaning with capital to spend. Foreign workers are taking over jobs here at an amazing rate, and to be quite honest who can blame them. They work harder, treat customers better and are content with less money.
Window cleaning is easy pickings for them, and the only way we can compete is on quality. Do you think you will be able to continue to get buy with cobble together stuff in a crappy old van. I doubt it.
I never heard of a city job becoming a window cleaner?? Since when? ;D
If your competing on quality then you need to go back to ladders for the majority of the time?
One of my close friends has a round where he can leave his house each day with his set of ladders and walk the whole round each month. Doesn't even need a car let alone a van, sign written, etc. he earning about £100 - £150 a day easily. home by 2.30. Polish/City Boy/30000k set up wouldn't get a lookin.
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Tenant my old fruit bat , what was wrong with the last Windex ?
I suppose the merchandise was too cheap for you !
And i reckon it might have been full of scum of the earth window cleaners like myself , matt, and macmac .
HONEST JOE
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Insert Quote
Tenant my old fruit bat , what was wrong with the last Windex ?
I suppose the merchandise was too cheap for you !
And i reckon it might have been full of scum of the earth window cleaners like myself , matt, and macmac .
HONEST JOE
LOL it wasnt the people, I just thought it was a bit small. Only a handful of window cleaning things there, you could be done with it in an hour at most.
I suppose if you did carpet cleaning as well there would be more to interest you, but I don't. Bit of a waste of time I thought.
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Insert Quote
Tenant my old fruit bat , what was wrong with the last Windex ?
I suppose the merchandise was too cheap for you !
And i reckon it might have been full of scum of the earth window cleaners like myself , matt, and macmac .
HONEST JOE
LOL it wasnt the people, I just thought it was a bit small. Only a handful of window cleaning things there, you could be done with it in an hour at most.
I suppose if you did carpet cleaning as well there would be more to interest you, but I don't.
thats a normal type of post, not 1 of your usuall, you feeling ok ?? ? ?
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Like I said matt, you misunderstand me. LOL I wasnt joking about that
I might have strong views about stuff, but if you met me, you'd consider me the type of bloke to go down the pub for a pint and a chat with. Easy going thats me. No need to get all hot under the collar. Just take life in your stride. Thats my motto.
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Very entertaining ;D
But it's a moot argument.
Those that disagree about the level of investment. why not post your
turnover for a year, along with the cost of your investment.
That way the rest of us can understand where you are coming from.
Look forward to seeing the figures.
Ewan :)
post figures :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ::) ::)
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Very entertaining ;D
But it's a moot argument.
Those that disagree about the level of investment. why not post your
turnover for a year, along with the cost of your investment.
That way the rest of us can understand where you are coming from.
Look forward to seeing the figures.
Ewan :)
Turnover 3.4 billion with an investment of 1.54 pound sterling ;)
Tony
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tony.... four pence over a quid and half???? you snob ;D
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Very entertaining ;D
But it's a moot argument.
Those that disagree about the level of investment. why not post your
turnover for a year, along with the cost of your investment.
That way the rest of us can understand where you are coming from.
Look forward to seeing the figures.
Ewan :)
post figures :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ::) ::)
here we go
it'll go something like this
cost of van and system = 22 K
turnover = 95 K
:D :D
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Very entertaining ;D
But it's a moot argument.
Those that disagree about the level of investment. why not post your
turnover for a year, along with the cost of your investment.
That way the rest of us can understand where you are coming from.
Look forward to seeing the figures.
Ewan :)
Turnover 3.4 billion with an investment of 1.54 pound sterling ;)
Tony
did you go for the extra 10 amp fuse then, as that will account for the 4p , you had better watch it, you will be leaving the ranks of the " cobblers" soon
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Very entertaining ;D
But it's a moot argument.
Those that disagree about the level of investment. why not post your
turnover for a year, along with the cost of your investment.
That way the rest of us can understand where you are coming from.
Look forward to seeing the figures.
Ewan :)
Turnover 3.4 billion with an investment of 1.54 pound sterling ;)
Tony
did you go for the extra 10 amp fuse then, as that will account for the 4p , you had better watch it, you will be leaving the ranks of the " cobblers" soon
No, i bridged it with fuse wire, the 1.54 was actually for second hand boot laces. after four years & many knots they finaly gave up on me. it pained me to spend such an amount in one year but i ran out of tie-wraps & washing line so i just thought stuff it, i'll treat myself, i work hard why not. mind, i want another four years out of these too or they'll be going back! ;)
Tony
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I will , first year , 5000 van
2000 equip
1000 fuel
100 p.l
300 insurance ,van
320 resin
150 water
100 van tax
9000 out , 25000 in .
Now in my 2nd year outs down , ins up , thats all i have to say without my brief officer !
Not superb , but still a long way better than the rat race !
Rich P @ F
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And just to add to the last post , went out to work on saturday , not somthing i usually do , went to quote new job in fresh area , got job , did job , neighbours saw me working , got home with 1000 quids worth of extra work per year .
Think i will do a few more saturdays from now on !
Rich P @ F
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Various replies and insults deleted.
This is a good thread, with potential for good debate but it keeps descending into petty argument.
I personally have a 17k van and I guess I've spend about 5k on my system over the last 4 years or so.
At some point I'll spend another two and a half grand on a hot water conversion, shortly I'll be spending £300 or so on a new pole.
My van is sign written, my uniform is logo'd, it doesn't make me a better window cleaner, but it has probably drawn me in better contracts than I would have got were I still working out of the back of my car.
When my lease period is up, I shall hand in the van and get another brand new one.
I'm happy with my business, what I've done works for me...but I spent over 20 years working out the back of a cheap vehicle, operating on a shoestring all the time, so the best of luck to all who also work in that way, it did me no harm at all for most of my adult working life.
But for me at least, spending the money on image, expensive vans, poles whatever has certainly made a massive difference to my earnings.
Ian
-
Could have had a great deal more valuable information out of this thread, however there are some on this forum that think anyone who turns over more than £1000 a week is a dreamer, and then resort to insults because they havent got a valid argument to substantiate their claims.
Quote
It is down to the individual not the tools.
The right tools and image might help but it wont give you a business.
I know guys in this business turning over £250k using home made systems and old vans.
Also know other guys turning over the same with off the shelf systems.
It is down to your own business accumin to succeed whatever tools you use.
Dave
Turnover of £250,000 a year !! By my reconing thats just short of £5 k a week thats a touch over £300 a day isnt it?
Just because you cant comprehend it doesnt mean its not true.. And there is a forum member who's business IMO will dwarf these figures.
Dissagree by all means, but information to support your view would be helpfull.
The liar liar pants on fire doesnt really help.
Mark
-
Mark
Are you calling me a liar !!!!!
Good job i didnt tell you about the guys who turn over even more than that.
Dave
-
Could have had a great deal more valuable information out of this thread, however there are some on this forum that think anyone who turns over more than £1000 a week is a dreamer, and then resort to insults because they havent got a valid argument to substantiate their claims.
Quote
It is down to the individual not the tools.
The right tools and image might help but it wont give you a business.
I know guys in this business turning over £250k using home made systems and old vans.
Also know other guys turning over the same with off the shelf systems.
It is down to your own business accumin to succeed whatever tools you use.
Dave
Turnover of £250,000 a year !! By my reconing thats just short of £5 k a week thats a touch over £300 a day isnt it?
Just because you cant comprehend it doesnt mean its not true.. And there is a forum member who's business IMO will dwarf these figures.
Dissagree by all means, but information to support your view would be helpfull.
The liar liar pants on fire doesnt really help.
Mark
To make my possition clear-
I dont doubt the earnings of window cleaners, what i dissagree with is that you need a 25k set up to acheive them, you don't.
If i insult someone it's 'cos they insult me by assuming i don't earn top money, have good contracts or good customers, i do, & i don't have the 25k set up. ;)
Tony
-
Various replies and insults deleted.
This is a good thread, with potential for good debate but it keeps descending into petty argument.
I personally have a 17k van and I guess I've spend about 5k on my system over the last 4 years or so.
At some point I'll spend another two and a half grand on a hot water conversion, shortly I'll be spending £300 or so on a new pole.
My van is sign written, my uniform is logo'd, it doesn't make me a better window cleaner, but it has probably drawn me in better contracts than I would have got were I still working out of the back of my car.
When my lease period is up, I shall hand in the van and get another brand new one.
I'm happy with my business, what I've done works for me...but I spent over 20 years working out the back of a cheap vehicle, operating on a shoestring all the time, so the best of luck to all who also work in that way, it did me no harm at all for most of my adult working life.
But for me at least, spending the money on image, expensive vans, poles whatever has certainly made a massive difference to my earnings.
Ian
When/What was the defining moment that made you change from working out of a car to going the professional route with the van and uniform etc..and how long did it take you to achieve this?
Did you do it with the round you had or did this have to change aswell?
Nosey arent i !! the reason i am asking is i am going through a transition stage at the moment and just wondered if i am professional enough with what i am doing or if i have more to do yet
Dean
-
Various replies and insults deleted.
This is a good thread, with potential for good debate but it keeps descending into petty argument.
I personally have a 17k van and I guess I've spend about 5k on my system over the last 4 years or so.
At some point I'll spend another two and a half grand on a hot water conversion, shortly I'll be spending £300 or so on a new pole.
My van is sign written, my uniform is logo'd, it doesn't make me a better window cleaner, but it has probably drawn me in better contracts than I would have got were I still working out of the back of my car.
When my lease period is up, I shall hand in the van and get another brand new one.
I'm happy with my business, what I've done works for me...but I spent over 20 years working out the back of a cheap vehicle, operating on a shoestring all the time, so the best of luck to all who also work in that way, it did me no harm at all for most of my adult working life.
But for me at least, spending the money on image, expensive vans, poles whatever has certainly made a massive difference to my earnings.
Ian
When/What was the defining moment that made you change from working out of a car to going the professional route with the van and uniform etc..and how long did it take you to achieve this?
Did you do it with the round you had or did this have to change aswell?
Nosey arent i !! the reason i am asking is i am going through a transition stage at the moment and just wondered if i am professional enough with what i am doing or if i have more to do yet
Dean
I used estate cars up till last year (sept time) I built every month regardless but find now I have the van we gets better priced work because it is people's perception, I am not knocking others that still use cars and are trad or wfp, been there done it and done ok from it too, times change I changed, and again doing ok from it and again changing business wise.
Every one will have a story to tell, you just have to work out which is fiction and non-fiction.
Ian
-
Various replies and insults deleted.
This is a good thread, with potential for good debate but it keeps descending into petty argument.
I personally have a 17k van and I guess I've spend about 5k on my system over the last 4 years or so.
At some point I'll spend another two and a half grand on a hot water conversion, shortly I'll be spending £300 or so on a new pole.
My van is sign written, my uniform is logo'd, it doesn't make me a better window cleaner, but it has probably drawn me in better contracts than I would have got were I still working out of the back of my car.
When my lease period is up, I shall hand in the van and get another brand new one.
I'm happy with my business, what I've done works for me...but I spent over 20 years working out the back of a cheap vehicle, operating on a shoestring all the time, so the best of luck to all who also work in that way, it did me no harm at all for most of my adult working life.
But for me at least, spending the money on image, expensive vans, poles whatever has certainly made a massive difference to my earnings.
Ian
When/What was the defining moment that made you change from working out of a car to going the professional route with the van and uniform etc..and how long did it take you to achieve this?
Did you do it with the round you had or did this have to change aswell?
Nosey arent i !! the reason i am asking is i am going through a transition stage at the moment and just wondered if i am professional enough with what i am doing or if i have more to do yet
Dean
I used a hatchback car for the first 9 months of window cleaning (91/92) and have used a van ever since. I used much lighter vans until '05 as I was working the traditional way. I did get nudged into it really. The engine on my ancient hatchback was on the way out so I needed a replacement vehicle anyway. Plus I lived on my own so did not need much seating. I ended up with a Nissan Sunny van that I kept for 9 years. I never sign wrote it or anything like that. To me, it was just a car with 2 seats really.
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Not only that, but you need to do the Maths, you might have better priced work but your going to need it or work longer hours to cover £25k and more of equipment. Does it make financial sense when it can be done at a fraction of the price? (not aimed at anyone specifically)
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I only got a van to accomodate wfp.
Maybe i wouldnt have gotten some of my contracts without my vans and wfp, but on the other hand i wouldnt be paying thousands for wfp and £500 a month in fuel £80- £160 a month in resin, £30'000 van repayments.
I used to use £100 a month in fuel, ah those were the days.
Dave
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Fuel - this time last year £20 would get the needle to vertical now i need £25 Must be a huge difference for the haulage companies.
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Yes, that's the nub. I think my investment was about13k, but we're not actually talking about ourselves but the theory of it. Within reason the more you invest the greater the return. That's just a business fact.
What's implied is that people on the heavier investment side of the argument haven't been going long and therefore lack experience, or somehow overestimate their own achievments.
If I was your age DJW with your resources I would do things pretty much as you have. I've read your posts and think you've done very well. The theory side doesn't take into account that you have to pay bills etc which I don't.(any wc earnings of mine are on top of a high pre-existing income).
Your business is growing all the time and you are working very hard at it. Sooner or later you will come on a par with people who have been operating ten or more years. What I am saying, or what the pro investment lobby are saying, is that with the higher investment (in other words if you'd have had the money to start with as I did), and with an 'all the right moves' marketing approach they could be 'caught' inside a year.
Not everyone sees life as the race I seem to think it is, and you will notice from Ian Giles's posts that he wandered in the wilderness for a few years before rediscovering a sence of purpose. So things don't always happen in a straight line.
There is a natural ceiling to our earnings anyway, and you will soon hit it. We are governed by what we are physicaly able to do on our own. So a good system that reduces effort, increases both self esteem, and others perceptions of us would seem to me a sound investment.
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I filled my truck up yesterday £70
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The theory side doesn't take into account that you have to pay bills etc which I don't.(any wc earnings of mine are on top of a high pre-existing income).
so whats your other high income earner ?? ? ? just interested ? ? ?
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Guys,
For me/us, window cleaning is just a means to an end. I don't really care who has the newest van or latest pole; though I do meet up with Ian Giles for a beer (or two) on a fairly regular basis; we share the same local since we live fairly close to each other and I often call him names (to his face of course), 'cos he can earn more than Wor Lass 'n' I together! I use a backpack; he's got a shiny sign-written van.
He's also got far better work than I (I've done some of it to cover when he's off on holiday); but it's taken him over twenty years, and we've been in the trade for five years; so I'm not jealous one little bit. Many of his class accounts; large 3 storey stuff; he did for years from ladders; heavy HEAVY ones (I've borrowed them and not given them back; but I wouldn't like to work with them on a regular basis; no way).
But anyway, to me, window cleaning is an escape from the rat race. In fact, I became a window cleaner to escape the stress of a well paid, but highly pressurised occupation; an occupation that had I stuck, I'd have gotten about 40K tax free and £500 per month pension at the age of 40 years old (only two years away now).
I don't have any regrets about leaving the army five years ago and giving up my pension (though I do get a a decent forces pension when I'm 60 (Inch Allah); money isn't everything; quality of life does it for me.
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Mr Solubility thats the best post you have written - even i can understand that. I'm not always trying to prove anyone wrong but i do like to question things and try to understand other peoples views. I know for a fact that i am no business man (and never will be) i'm far too soft, slow to jump on an opportunity when it's staring me in the face and so can't always grasp how others work and drive to their fortune. I have a theory that anyone who is successfull in business could be transferred to any business with the same results. Several directors in the print industry hadn't a clue about the printing process but were a success in their feild.
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Tosh that's exactly my views too. I could have stayed in the printing trade for a while longer (the firms stilll going - just) and i could be earning 50k a year but that would mean Treble shifts, compulsory overtime, ongoing paycuts and the most boring job on the planet.
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Yes, that's the nub. I think my investment was about13k, but we're not actually talking about ourselves but the theory of it. Within reason the more you invest the greater the return. That's just a business fact.
What's implied is that people on the heavier investment side of the argument haven't been going long and therefore lack experience, or somehow overestimate their own achievments.
If I was your age DJW with your resources I would do things pretty much as you have. I've read your posts and think you've done very well. The theory side doesn't take into account that you have to pay bills etc which I don't.(any wc earnings of mine are on top of a high pre-existing income).
Your business is growing all the time and you are working very hard at it. Sooner or later you will come on a par with people who have been operating ten or more years. What I am saying, or what the pro investment lobby are saying, is that with the higher investment (in other words if you'd have had the money to start with as I did), and with an 'all the right moves' marketing approach they could be 'caught' inside a year.
Not everyone sees life as the race I seem to think it is, and you will notice from Ian Giles's posts that he wandered in the wilderness for a few years before rediscovering a sence of purpose. So things don't always happen in a straight line.
There is a natural ceiling to our earnings anyway, and you will soon hit it. We are governed by what we are physicaly able to do on our own. So a good system that reduces effort, increases both self esteem, and others perceptions of us would seem to me a sound investment.
the more you invest the more you return is not a business fact at all MR S, I am shocked by that comment.
Business sence is knowing where to invest and where to get the best returns on investment, if you think investing makes you money you need to look at real facts not knocking you but that comment is mental (most have heard the saying throwing money at the wall) investing has to be a well thought out part of business a foolish man invests money just on a whim, on wfp that does not mean you have to have the most expensive system nor does it mean you have to have it hot to get the best return on investment, I for one can stand by what I am saying on this one, I do ok from cold.
Mr S please dont think i am swiping at you, I am pointing out what you said on your post is wrong to a degree, I may not be able to spell to well but I have been in business long enough to know that comment is way out and I have also had a market stall, yes investment can work if done right, investing with a blind eye costs people a lot of money, most expensive is not always the best, we all live and learn but dont make in costly people that are reading this post ;)
You do have to invest a certain amount to go forward, but this does not have to be the amount some claim on here.
Ian
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mine takes £78 to fill up,
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i invested around £2000 and ive done really well out of that my heads well and truly screwed on . ;D ;D
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Can you stay on topic please Dave. They'd be a shake up if I was the gaffer.
Matt I was about to say something about christoper Marlow always living in shakespeares shadow but then realised you were quoting someone else.
I have a friend who cuts keys, he's done quite well. Anyway I found out who morley is.
"Printer's ink has been running a race against gunpowder these many, many years. Ink is handicapped, in a way, because you can blow up a man with gunpowder in half a second, while it may take twenty years to blow him up with a book. But the gunpowder destroys itself along with its victim, while a book can keep on exploding for centuries." — Chistopher Morley, The Haunted Bookshop
"Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to continually be part of unanimity."
"A man who has never made a woman angry is a failure in life."
"No man is lonely while eating spaghetti — it requires too much attention."
"When you sell a man a book, you don't sell him 12 ounces of paper and ink and glue--you sell him a whole new life."
"The most interesting persons are always those who have nothing special to do: children, nurses, policemen and actors at 11 o'clock in the morning." — Christopher Morley, Travels in Philadelphia
"Philadelphia was the first city to foresee the advantages of a Federal constitution and oatmeal as a breakfast food." — Christopher Morley, Travels in Philadelphia
"There is only one success, . . . to be able to spend your life in your own way. . . ." — Christopher Morley, Where The Blue Begins
[edit] Trivia
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Same discussion different day. Why does someone have to be right and someone wrong, I have read all of the posts in this thread and I think your all right, if it works for you!
I have a slightly different take on the issue, I have bought the flash vans and good off the shelf gear mainly because I saw an opportunity in window cleaning but I also wanted to avoid the stigma of being a window cleaner (dont shoot me, it's not my stigma its how many others view it).
In the early days before I had built up my business and developed a reputation I was a bit self concious about what it was I did for a living mainly because everyone I knew thought I was loop the loop giving up a good career and risking my families livelihood.
They probably still think Im loopy but the difference is that I now can justify it to the only people who count myself and my family.
-
I have a friend who cuts keys, he's done quite well. Anyway I found out who morley is.
"Printer's ink has been running a race against gunpowder these many, many years. Ink is handicapped, in a way, because you can blow up a man with gunpowder in half a second, while it may take twenty years to blow him up with a book. But the gunpowder destroys itself along with its victim, while a book can keep on exploding for centuries." — Chistopher Morley, The Haunted Bookshop
"Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to continually be part of unanimity."
"A man who has never made a woman angry is a failure in life."
"No man is lonely while eating spaghetti — it requires too much attention."
"When you sell a man a book, you don't sell him 12 ounces of paper and ink and glue--you sell him a whole new life."
"The most interesting persons are always those who have nothing special to do: children, nurses, policemen and actors at 11 o'clock in the morning." — Christopher Morley, Travels in Philadelphia
"Philadelphia was the first city to foresee the advantages of a Federal constitution and oatmeal as a breakfast food." — Christopher Morley, Travels in Philadelphia
"There is only one success, . . . to be able to spend your life in your own way. . . ." — Christopher Morley, Where The Blue Begins
[edit] Trivia
ref the key cutting, it was my attemt at humour ( not sure if people missd it though ) tuppenceclean is found of calling DIY'ers " cobblers, they who cobble together systems ", and most cobblers ( i.e shoe repairs ) also cut keys ;) see what i did ;)
ref Christopher Morley, some1 said i had the right idea on life on here a few years back ( this was on another thread about working all the hours god sends or spending time with my then baby daughter, which was the reason i started WC'ing, so i could work the hours i wanted, she has since started school and we have another little baby ), , i said someting along the lines of " i dont need some1 else to tell me what success is, my success it being able to work my hours and being a dad, he then posted the Christopher Morley qoute, i will be honest, it sums up how i feel, to you i might appear lazy and have no drive, but my drive is being able to work the hours i want and still provide and have a cracking realationship with my family, for example, today i did a school forest walk all morning, my daughter loved me doing it, then i got back, we had lunch and i wetn back to school to put together a shed for the school, i know i could have gone out and worked 5 hours and earn money, but i did my bit for the school
so anyways, wha is your "other high income earner"
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Matt,
It sounds like you've got the 'work - life' balance spot on.
I wish I did a few years ago.
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Given the choice of Tosh's life and the Tennet life , i would choose Tosh life , fun with your family , giving somthing back to the community , time off , what more could you want , an early stress related death like like Tennet , money isnt the be all and end all of it my friend , you cant spend it when you is dead man !
The only people who will thank you tennet is your kids , easy life when you are 6 foot under , cheers dad
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Guys,
For me/us, window cleaning is just a means to an end. I don't really care who has the newest van or latest pole; though I do meet up with Ian Giles for a beer (or two) on a fairly regular basis; we share the same local since we live fairly close to each other and I often call him names (to his face of course), 'cos he can earn more than Wor Lass 'n' I together! I use a backpack; he's got a shiny sign-written van.
He's also got far better work than I (I've done some of it to cover when he's off on holiday); but it's taken him over twenty years, and we've been in the trade for five years; so I'm not jealous one little bit. Many of his class accounts; large 3 storey stuff; he did for years from ladders; heavy HEAVY ones (I've borrowed them and not given them back; but I wouldn't like to work with them on a regular basis; no way).
But anyway, to me, window cleaning is an escape from the rat race. In fact, I became a window cleaner to escape the stress of a well paid, but highly pressurised occupation; an occupation that had I stuck, I'd have gotten about 40K tax free and £500 per month pension at the age of 40 years old (only two years away now).
I don't have any regrets about leaving the army five years ago and giving up my pension (though I do get a a decent forces pension when I'm 60 (Inch Allah); money isn't everything; quality of life does it for me.
tosh, my bro in law is in the police, he has 8 years to go till a full good pension and a fairly big lump sum, he sint sure he can stick it for that long
see even though i know what i do, and i do what i do, im not sure i could give up a good pension and a lump sum for the sake of waiting 8 years, it would be too good to give up
does that make me strange ??? ???
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Matt,
It sounds like you've got the 'work - life' balance spot on.
I wish I did a few years ago.
i feel so too tosh,
when i read about this gov and this country, its not been too bad to me so far ;), im happy with my lot, a few holidays and a nice house, it does me fine
you got the caravan sorted out yet ? ? ? ?
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I think I've got my head screwed on ...
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I think you're head is not screwed up as tightly as you think
But compared to a few others on this subject (which again I have read all of it) you arent doing so bad
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Mark
Are you calling me a liar !!!!!
Good job i didnt tell you about the guys who turn over even more than that.
Dave
Of course I wasnt calling you a liar, just using your post to illustrate the point that some claims of earnings on this forum are dwarfed by the earnings of cleaners that you know.
And I have a fair idea of who the really big hitters are who a forum members, but they tend to do more listening than talking. ;)
Mark
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Quote
To make my possition clear-
I dont doubt the earnings of window cleaners, what i dissagree with is that you need a 25k set up to acheive them, you don't.
If i insult someone it's 'cos they insult me by assuming i don't earn top money, have good contracts or good customers, i do, & i don't have the 25k set up.
Tony
Mac mac I agree with you, you dont need to spend vast ammounts to earn good money, I personaly think that the flash setup will never be a substitute for working "smart" however I do think its a matter of personal choice. What does puzzle me though is why it annoys you so much when someones perspective doesnt tally with yours. I would have thought it would give you even more satisfaction to know your earning without spending the sums that others do.
Mark
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Quote
To make my possition clear-
I dont doubt the earnings of window cleaners, what i dissagree with is that you need a 25k set up to acheive them, you don't.
If i insult someone it's 'cos they insult me by assuming i don't earn top money, have good contracts or good customers, i do, & i don't have the 25k set up.
Tony
Mac mac I agree with you, you dont need to spend vast ammounts to earn good money, I personaly think that the flash setup will never be a substitute for working "smart" however I do think its a matter of personal choice. What does puzzle me though is why it annoys you so much when someones perspective doesnt tally with yours. I would have thought it would give you even more satisfaction to know your earning without spending the sums that others do.
Mark
Yeah, you're right, i tend to get drawn in a bit. It's the thought of someone, a newby mainley getting a completely false impression of w/cing. Some people are risking a hell of a lot by changing carreer, giving up jobs, pensions etc.
Many posters on here give the impression that if you spend 20k on a set up & flash new van, you're made for life almost instantly- WFP- the magic wand, drop a moaning custy & hey, 20 new ones come running towards you all begging to give you more money etc. etc.
People make some big decisions based on info from this site & i personaly think it selfish to exagerate the reality. Although it does make me look negative a lot of the time, i feel it most important to show both sides of the coin. ;)
To build a good round that pays well with minimum effort takes a lot of work & time, no tool, van, system will do it for you.
Tony
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The best financial advice I'll give is to live within your means.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to trade in some old WF poles that were heavy and worn out for some newer, lighter ones IF you can afford it because it will improve your health and allow you to work quicker.
Same applies with any WFP gear, so long as you benefit from the unique advantages of it, then it's value for money providing you can't buy it or a similar alternative elsewhere at considerably cheaper prices.
Young window cleaners have more aspirations than the older ones and normally want to be the best, have the best gear, etc, that's fine because it gives them a goal to achieve, but be realistic, and don't get into debt, it's too easy. It's a lot, lot, lot, harder to get out of debt.
Most people in this country live in debt and no doubt stress too. It can ruin marriages, partnershps and your health if it spirals out of control. The older generation would loathe being in debt so they can sleep easy, whilst the younger ones accept it as the norm.
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Matt,
At last something I can commend you on. You live your life by a mission statement. In the begining you also had a very specific brief for the WFP site. If you approach all your projects like this that's why you've mainly succeeded. Woolly thinking drives me mad.
WW. In the few months you've had a van and wfp your business has expanded rapidlly. This is cause and effect. You invest, you get a return (mainly). That's why it's a business fact.
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Matt,
At last something I can commend you on. You live your life by a mission statement. In the begining you also had a very specific brief for the WFP site. If you approach all your projects like this that's why you've mainly succeeded. Woolly thinking drives me mad.
watch it, people might think that was a compliment :o :o
oh and my projects succed to varying degree's, but they allways succed, as im that type of person who doesnt stop till they do ;) ( its 1 of my bad points i have to admit)
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WW. In the few months you've had a van and wfp your business has expanded rapidlly. This is cause and effect. You invest, you get a return (mainly). That's why it's a business fact.
Ok, so if i invest 10k in a new van next week how much can i expect my profit to go up this year? ???
I would like fact please too. ;)
Tony
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WW. In the few months you've had a van and wfp your business has expanded rapidlly. This is cause and effect. You invest, you get a return (mainly). That's why it's a business fact.
Ok, so if i invest 10k in a new van next week how much can i expect my profit to go up this year? ???
I would like fact please too. ;)
Tony
You cheeky boy lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Haven't you already got a van MacMac?
So with the ten thousand you put another van on the road. Even you should be able to see the potential of that.
Next case ;D ;D
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Mr Sol have you got hot water,if so i have a question.
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Shoot
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Cheers,can you run the varistream on the same setting as you would on cold and get the same flow rate,do you use minibore and what`s the hottest you go on mornings like we`ve had of late.
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Firstly I'm not an hot expert , nor on wfp. I've read yours posts and I think you have more practical knowledge than I do on the general topic.
That said I believe my hot system is better than anyone else's. The key is it's simplicity and extreme low cost.
The system needs a variflow attached (obviously) to the pump. This variflow has to be set very high, about 2-3 O'clock to achieve the flow rate required to light the main burner.This does use a lot of water. I try to use the hose tap to slow this down a bit.
I use minibore. The system/flow beahves no differently to a cold system. (I do not have a DI on the van).
I like the water hot, that's just my preference. I cracked a pane a few days ago, so now on some windows I have to turn it down.
Remember when you start it comes out cold and warms up over four or five windows. If I had to critisise my system I would say it use's a lot of water and my control of the actual water temperature is a bit crude. As more people adopt it though i'm sure little tips and tricks and better way's of doing things will emerge.
I can promise you this though NWH, twenty minutes after first using your own hot system you will never want to work cold again.
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ive explained before how to cut down on the water use
as the water comes out of the variflow
fit a Y
1 branch of the Y will go up the pole and the other will return into the water tank ( fit a tap on this pipe, so you can control how much goes back into the tank and thus in turn how much goes up the pole pipe
job done
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Firstly I'm not an hot expert , nor on wfp. I've read yours posts and I think you have more practical knowledge than I do on the general topic.
That said I believe my hot system is better than anyone else's. The key is it's simplicity and extreme low cost.
The system needs a variflow attached (obviously) to the pump. This variflow has to be set very high, about 2-3 O'clock to achieve the flow rate required to light the main burner.This does use a lot of water. I try to use the hose tap to slow this down a bit.
I use minibore. The system/flow beahves no differently to a cold system. (I do not have a DI on the van).
I like the water hot, that's just my preference. I cracked a pane a few days ago, so now on some windows I have to turn it down.
Remember when you start it comes out cold and warms up over four or five windows. If I had to critisise my system I would say it use's a lot of water and my control of the actual water temperature is a bit crude. As more people adopt it though i'm sure little tips and tricks and better way's of doing things will emerge.
I can promise you this though NWH, twenty minutes after first using your own hot system you will never want to work cold again.
Thanks,what system do you have.
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I can't do that Matt. I mean I don't think I can do that. The water must go through the heater or else it won't light. If you know of a way of splitting it after then maybe...
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I can't do that Matt. I mean I don't think I can do that. The water must go through the heater or else it won't light. If you know of a way of splitting it after then maybe...
Mr Solubility,
Why don't you fit a Y return after the boiler, instead of before the boiler like Matt suggested. That way you have the necessary flow going through the boiler half goes back to the tank (pre-heat your baffled tank) and the other half goes to your pole so you can slow down on your water consumption.
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Yes, I've been thinking about this. Jeff told me it had been done on the diy but i couldn't find it. The hose i need to spit is tricoflex between the heater and the reel (i mean normal size garden hose).I have been trying to get hold of a tap that would regulate this and then go back into the tank. I've emailed Matt a picture on his link address so he can better understand it.
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I can't do that Matt. I mean I don't think I can do that. The water must go through the heater or else it won't light. If you know of a way of splitting it after then maybe...
oh sorry
i thought the pump and variflow were after the heater
in that case, after the heater just fit the Y
as i said
1 branch of the Y will go up the pole and the other will return into the water tank ( fit a tap on this pipe, so you can control how much goes back into the tank and thus in turn how much goes up the pole pipe
the flow will still be going through the heater at max, just returning to the tank
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ive just seen the pics
as the hosepipe comes out of the heater ( just before the hosereel )
just cut it shorter and fit a connection ( looks like you use a hozelock or similar ) fit a Y to this, hoselock make them, then continue 1 of the branches to the hose reel, and the other can return back into the tank ( this needs to have a tap fitted to it to control the flow back into the tank, the slower the flow to the tank, the more the flow up the pole )
very easy to do, a 15 min job, you only need :
3 X hozelock connections
1 X hoselock Y
1 X hoselock flow regulator
ive found some links
regulator
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/pd5_GARDEN_WATER-EQ_SPRAY-G%5Ba%5DA_6003_REGULATOR-PRESSURE-ONOFF-2190.htm
Y connection
http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/pd5_GARDEN_WATER-EQ_SPRAY-G%5Ba%5DA_5998_CONNECTOR-Y-2293.htm
you will be able to souce these from your local garden specialist
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oh and if you dont like using hoselock fittings, just go on altec
http://www.altecweb.com
and find the right fittings to fit inside your pipe, then you can fit the fittings inside your pipe and use a jubilee clips over them all ( this will stop any leaks )
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Haven't you already got a van MacMac?
So with the ten thousand you put another van on the road. Even you should be able to see the potential of that.
Next case ;D ;D
Yes i do but it's knocking on a bit, not got enough work for two vans, so, please answer my original question-
A 10k investment in my business will acheive me- ?
What's the cause & what's the effect?
Tony
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Haven't you already got a van MacMac?
So with the ten thousand you put another van on the road. Even you should be able to see the potential of that.
Next case ;D ;D
Yes i do but it's knocking on a bit, not got enough work for two vans, so, please answer my original question-
A 10k investment in my business will acheive me- ?
What's the cause & what's the effect?
Tony
it'll cause you to work harder to pay for it, thus the effect will be you will be very tired in the evening and not have much time to post on here ;)