Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Richy L on January 28, 2008, 05:57:22 pm
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hi guys.
I did a job for a decorating company for £1,000. ... its a limited company.
I have now been told that one half of the partnership has left due to money problems.
I have been told i will have to wait for payment, if i get get it, as the business is now in trouble and they are on the brink of going bust. so i have been told to wait until he sorts the business out, then i will get my money.
the main problem is, i dont have anything in writing, as he asked me to do the job straight away, and they are based a couple of hundred miles away from me.
Any advice? ???
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get to your accountant and solicitor straight away, thats the best advice i can give.
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I think you need proper advice on this one,
It may be that there is ramifications of not doing the right thing, eg, it might be that lodging small claims or forclosure papers(?) against the business will put you ahead in the creditor list, not doing something correctly might put you last on the list!
take proper paid advice (its an investment!)
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hi there
the problem is if they are realy in trouble, and you issue court papers against them then , you are throwing good money after bad in all reality.
if they are not in trouble and they are making you wait, then a chase letter might be worth it.
just make sure that if yo do go don the court route, that you serve the papers to the registered office.
if you chade letter then state Late Payments Act and your intention to charge statutory interest.
regards
martin
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but if i have nothing in writing, couldnt they just say they dont know anything about the money or me? ???
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hi there
a verbal contract in law, still has teeth.
obviously a written contract, or purchase order numbers protects everyone.
we have introduced works munbers this year for every job, new terms and conditions, etc.
at the end of the day if they go broke none of that really counts.
the other thing we do is photos of work, esp on the larger contracts. they are good.
regards
martin
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well ill give it another week, he said to leave it two weeks, so ill ring him at the end of this week and see where i stand.
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I would still get advice,
we recently had karl on here who lost 3k because someone went bump, i am sure had he know they were in trouble he might of found a way to get himself paid (or at least try).
Personally if i could lodge a claim for my money which sent them under but meant i would get my money then thats what i would do. Its of no benefit to sit around and let someone else do it and right off your own £1000,
burying your head in the sand for a week is not taking a proactive approach, i think its better to do somthing and be in control of the situation than let others be in control.
I will only repeat that you need proper legal advice, no one on this site is going to give you £1000 if their advice is wrong! and £1000 is alot to pay for unqualifed, incorrect legal advice!
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hi there
the problem is, that if your action is enough to take them under then you can almost guarantee you wont see any money
the bank will be in first with anf guarantee on borrowing.
and then the HMRC are preferential creditors,
trade creditors get in behind that.
one thing you might like to do is to do a company search, and see if they have any upto date info, directors etc.
regards
martin
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Send this, it has worked for me
ACT NOW TO STOP COURT PROCEEDINGS
Over due payment of Invoices!
Dear Mrs. ****
We have written to you and also phoned, with out any luck
We are very concerned because your account with us is over due by £133.95!
Unpaid Invoices are detailed below
Invoice numbers 2131, 2244, & 2311
All invoices that we send out are due for payment with-in 30 days of invoice date under late payment of commercial debts Act 1998
Please send your payment in full to reach us with-in 7 days of this letter in order to avoid court proceedings or we will without reference to you, issue a county court claim.
Yours Sincerely
Andrew Cheney
MD of Smart Cleaning Ltd
If no relpy I get this company to send a letter out (cost 2 or 3 pounds) http://www.thomashiggins.com/
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Hi,
If it's really looking glum, try and find other one of their contractors/suppliers and ask them if they've had problems.
Maybe your client lost money on that job and maybe they are thinking if they knock the cleaners they'll gain 1k on the bottom line , it does happen in the building industry.
If it's looking like they are going bust there is no point in using the legal system as the only thing you'll get in the end is a letter from the liquidators.
Have you thought of meeting the director expalin that this could also put you under and maybe do a deal ( just the cost of the job)
maybe all of the above is rubbish but just a bit more for your thinking pot.
Nick
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Don`t suppose you need or know anyone who needs a grands worth of decorating done, you could try and sort it that way.
Failing that I would do as the above post says and offer to lower the debt if it is cleared immediately.
Failing that go and knock the geezer out for taking the p, it may make you feel better :o, I doubt it would get you your money though :(
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if there going bust go there with a couple of big mates remove goods to the value
i no its not the best thing to do but would you let someone steel 1000 pounds from you and do nothing!!!
good look
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cheers for all your help guys.
Im going to give him a ring tomorrow morning, and ill see where to go from what he says.
ill keep you posted! :)
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Don't bother phoning, you'll get fobbed off again.
Go around there and be as nonthreatening as possible, but be firm. This guy is waiting for the inevitable to happen, and once he goes bust you'll NEVER see the money.
Ask him what he suggests for payment, explain you're a very small company and this is having a serious impact on your business. His money problems and his partner leaving aren't YOUR problems. If there are other staff there then that indicates he has the money to pay them!! Does he have a car? Then he has money for fuel.
When was the work done by you? How late is the payment?
Court action takes too long, I've been in this situation, on one occasion I sat in reception until I was paid, took about half an hour.
Don't get fobbed off with excuses, try and get a cheque out of him then take it straight to the bank.
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i did the job about 7-8 weeks ago. i was told i would be paid in 10 - 14 days!
the live about 150 miles away from me, its not like i can pop over. and ill have to find their address anyway, i havent got it.
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150 miles north or south of cardiff?
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east... :)
well its in devon, or near.its about 125 miles actually.
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sorry, devons the wrong direction for me.
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thanks anyway mate
:)
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I am in Devon & willing to help
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Hi
Sorry to see you have a problem.
Go to where they are. tell them you are taking anything that amounts to what they owe you. Tell the police what you are doing, get something on paper to leave, and get your money. You did the work you need to get paid. P.S take £10 in coins taped together in you hand. All the best Michael D
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i`m in devon too, if there is anything i can do
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cheers guys.
yesterday i rang and his wife answered. shes was really friendly, kept calling me lovely ... i.e "ok lovely". she asked me what the call was about, and i said "its about some money that i should of recieved 4 weeks ago, but i still haven't had it"
She said he would phone me back today (friday).
I didnt give him chance to ring me so i just phoned him ......
him: hi you alright
me: im ok, u?
him: not really, im on the other line at the moment trying to chase some f**** cheques. I know what you're ringing me about and ill get the money to you as soon as i can. Theres not a lot more i can do at the moment. ill let you know when i get the money in to pay you.
me:ok, well ill ring you again in a couple of days.
Its doing my nut in. i dont want to take force unless there is absolutly no other option. so ill be ringing him again monday. and ill keep pestering him until i get somewhere.
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Richy,
I dont want to give you bad advice, so you should double check this - but Im quite sure what he has done to you is classed as 'trading whilst insolvent' meaning he has taken goods or services from you knowing full well he didnt have the means to pay for them, which aside from him going bankrupt means he could be prosecuted for fraud - I Think!!!!
If you can verify this and put it to him im sure he'll find a way of paying your money - Good Luck
Al
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thanks alistair.
I dont want to get to heavy yet. it'll be easier to get my money if were not enemies. how long should i let if go on for though?
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Richy,
Youve got to remember that this guy has stolen £1000 from you, it'll be those that shout the loudest who will get there money.
As for how long you should let it go for - my opinion is the longer you leave it the less chance you'll have of recovering your money.
Al
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hi richy it happens it sucks but it does happen :'( :'( have a look on here good site loads of free info and letters
www.payontime.co.uk (http://www.payontime.co.uk)
try and work with the poeple who owe you OR it can work against you ...do every thing by the book. because if it goes to court you will get shafted not the bad payer ::) ::)
been done twice in 4 years for fairly small amounts £500.00 and under.if this happens it smarts but you can right it off in your accounts at the end of the year. thats the only thing you can do in my experience.
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Any Luck!
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Any news on this one, bet he never paid :( >:(
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so far he hasn't, no.
But i found the number of his old work partner and he said talk to him. Then he rang me back and said he did intent on paying me, but when he's more "financially stable" (whatever that means).
Im going to keep calling the guy that owes me the money, i dont want to give up!
... and of course, any new news ill keep you informed :)
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Dont be soft on this whinging numpty. He has no intention of paying you.
I had a client rip me of when i just started up their company was liquidated I got £32 out of £1000 owed, it took 3 years to get it.
From every thing I've read here it sounds like the same will happen to you.
use the advice given to you above go to www.thomashiggins.com get them to send a letter it will frighten the poop out of him.
Or better still go to www.moneyclaimonline.gov.uk and start immediate court proceedings. Guarantee as soon as he sees the county court summons if hes got it he will pay up.
Dont be a soft poope ARE YOU A BUSINESS MAN OR a Whimp If you dont do somehing soon you will be the only loser.
It makes me very angry when these smarmy little sods think they can p us about because we are in cleaning.
Come on mate you know we are right the numpty is taking the p.
Guarantee as soon as he sees the county court summons if hes got it he will pay up.
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Look on the companies house website were all limited companies are listed and see if his accounts are up to date,ask him nicely for a letter explaining his situation and giving you a rough idea of what the chances of you being paid are and you may trick him into putting the proof he owes you money into writing,he`s probably bumped a few people and will be trading under another name soon,if you lived on his doorstep it probably wouldn`t have happened so i reckon he`s testing you out,become a pest and keep checking if he is doing any work,then show up at job.I had same problem and put an advertisement in the bluffers local paper asking if anyone else had had the same problem.
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Similar thing happened to a mate of mine who is a painter, the guy owed lots of people money, he was just pulling a fast one on him saying he had money troubles etc, still drove around in a range rover sport though, I'm a tiler so one night we tiled the bonnet of his range rover, and left a note saying this would keep happening until he paid all the trades he owed money too. He didn't know who did it as he owed loads of people money, but within a week everybody had been paid.
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I am of the opinion that you are someone who takes a person at face value and hope for the best.
The question is how long are you prepared to wait for monies that you may receive with no interest nor administrative charges for your time spent chasing it?
You are aware of money problems in the company which may be so severe causing a business partner to leave. However, this does not mean that partner is off the hook but this depends on his legal status within the limited company. So armed with this information what have you done? Nothing but place a few phone calls and are phobed off all the time with a promise to pay.
I also gather you do not want to go down the small claims route; maybe the time and effort needed has put you off. You may want to seek advice from your local CAB ***highly recommended*** on alternative actions.
A 'default notice' if not defended can be purely administrative and very effective if you enforce the order, it affects credit status etc., and if as someone mentioned earlier about 'insolvent trading/Fraud' there are cases where the individuals concerned are held personally liable to repay a debt.
Furthermore if he is trading insolvent just image how many other businesses he may be taking for a ride. Someone has to take a stand and do what's right just to avoid someone else feeling what you are experiencing now.
You need to demonstrate that you are handling your company professionally and that you have sound procedures on debt management, otherwise forget it and move on.
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Devon just over the moor where
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You need to find out if it was a limited company or just a partnership. If just a partnership they are both personally liable for company debts.
Would be good ammunition for you. Keep onto the other partner too. You did the work whilst he was still a partner right?
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thanks for your advice, but i have no address, just a name for the company and a mobile number.
The only address I can get hold of is the partner that has left.
And it is a LTD company.
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If it is a limited company then you will be able to find their registered address at companies house and serve a notice there. Its good service...........meaning you do not need to serve notice of your claim at their trading office.
You can still as far as possible find the actual directors, if
you can prove the company is trading insolvent...(which can be done via filing for a winding up order) after your default notice is granted) or if fraud has taken place forcing the courts to look behind the company and at the directors personnally. Whilst I do not want to confuse you or give you wrong advice, again, I would strongly advise that you seek legal representation and explore the avenues open to you.
By the way having the partners address is a good start.
But there is information missing, gaps unfilled and hard to get a complete picture on this without all facts. You are certain its a limited company but have no name of persons, just a name of company and mobile telephone number.
Why are you not chasing the partner who is still liable? Can he confirm whether this other guy is a registered director? This partner must know something about him.
I now tread with caution!!!! You have been given a wealth of good advice by forum members and still fail to act.
Let me just say this. If someone using a limited company is trying to hide behind it and commit certain unlawful acts they can and may be held personally liable for ALL debts owed!!!
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Ring the guy tell him you have a parcel for him with a damaged label but you have his contact number on your paperwork . Can he give a delivery address.
Ring him in morn about eightish make a name up of a parcel company ,It just may work???