Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Paul Coleman on January 26, 2008, 07:15:11 pm
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I've had two sections of my superlite 2 stuck together for most of the day (sections 3 and 4). It hasn't been a problem as I'm spending the whole weekend on one big job but it will be a problem tomorrow when I need to pack my gear away. I've left the two offending sections locked away on site as 10 ft of pole won't go in my van. I asked some guy to hold one section while I pulled and twisted but he couldn't get enough grip. I have been using the PTFE spray quite liberally too. Although I have taken care not to push the sections into each other too hard, I'm wondering if the cleaning action has perhaps nudged them further into each other because it has been a very dirty first clean and I've been quite vigorous at times.
So, are there any tips on how I might be able to separate these two sections please?
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Get the two of you, both wearing rubber gloves! It gives a lot more grip. Rather than pulling the section apart, try twisting them apart. Get one of you to hold the upper section, the other needs to twist the lower section clockwise. It may help to stand side on to the section and twist it away from you.
If this doesn't work (which it really should) email me on alex@agardiner.co.uk .
Extended first clean work, with hours of vigorous pushing must have gradually jammed them together.
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Heat the joint areas up until they are a bit too hot to hold a couple of times and leave them cool naturally. Then try. Also if you are used to locking the joint when assembling lets say clockwise then try untwisting it anticlockwise. Have you tried the 3 man release ?
I have also heard of wd40 helping.
Then put a few wraps of tape round the top of the base section joint to stop it compressing down the pole. The tape can be moved later as the pole wears.
They all compress with use. No matter whose pole it is.
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Make sure that you twist the lower section clockwise when separating the joints (on all but the top joint) as they have been designed with a spiral weave which will unwind when twisted in correct direction.
In standard use these joints will not need a tape stop. For prolonged heavy duty use then it may be of use.
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Hi Jeff
Where exactly do we put the tape? Any pics?
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Push the joint together so its secure as usual. Then undo it slightly about 1/8th inch, wrap the tape say 3 times to create a ring/stop with distinct collar edge that will stop the top section sliding further down over the base section. If its too loose it will spin.
Its the consant flexing in a vertical position that compresses each joint and the higher you go the more it is driven down if your using it for long periods.
Did the F16 2 years ago and havent yet had to move the tape. You could also colour code the tape - say traffic lights, if your poles are not numbered.
Karlos also has the spiral weave on his Garbolino and had to send for replacements as they are still locked together. Tape all the joints !
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Hi Jeff
Ta for the reply.
What kind of tape do you recommend?
Will the joint still be tight enough to keep it together?
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Rubber glove trick worked on mine a short time ago, sections four and three got stuck in wet weather. This is the only joint i don't tape as the section won't fit inside the first when not in use. I've had a cheaper modular pole stick before and crushed it by gripping too tightly. Strange thing is that i've found they stick even more after spraying with ptfe as it seems to encourage the joint to slip even further over the next pole.
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I have also heard of wd40 helping.
Alex said a wet lubricant isnt suitable for these poles, Luke
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WD40 I aint tried it either.
But the tape stops it happening.
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Couple of turns of black insulating tape is what i use. Then i put several turns on the bottom of each section to stop it chipping.
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I will put tape on my pole eventually. I have never had it jam yet though, but its worth doing. It doesnt harm your pole but improves it, Luke
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If you use your modular on domestics there is a lot of ups and downs movemet and probably not enough to lock the joints. But if you plan to work at height or you use a heavy brush like the Vikan for say more than half an hour , then the poles begin their compression and locking by gravity.
Tape the joints.
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Another reason to do it is the nature of the poles. Because they arent fully adjustable then sometimes you can be working closer to horizontal which makes the joints push together more, Luke
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Luke, if or when it happens - you won't believe how tight they go. I was at the limit of my strength to twist mine apart with rubber gloves on.
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yes the carbon can nearly weld itself together , Luke
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Spray doesnt work vertically, tape does.
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You get one person to hold one section while you twist the other,the person holding dosen`t twist he just holds as tight as to stop it moving and they will easily come apart.
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but the tape will help to reduce carbon wear, but both together, well its like Spiderman and Superman, the Super combination!!!! Luke
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Maybe the tape reduces the wear by stopping a lot of the "hard" friction but doesnt stop it happening because there still has to be "soft" friction. Its friction and gravity that keeps the joints together, but its a really good point Luke and maybe you second generation guys will come up with more answers !
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I have the solution to stopping all this sticking and have used it on modular poles for a while now,if you go in halfords you can buy male velcro one sided sticking tape,it`s about 2.5 " wide.Put your pole together by that i mean all of it,wrap a strip of this tape on the top section where it meets the next 1,what happens is that the section can only butt against the velcro as it acts as an end stop.The reason it stops it sticking is because the velcro also has width to it which stops the section going in any further than you would want,the only trouble with this is you can`t store all the sections in one pole ie if you have say 8-9 sections you`d have to store them in 3 separate containers as the tape stops them going inside each other,apply superglue to the sticky side for extra stick and all your pole sticking problems will be gone for good.
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Make sure that you twist the lower section clockwise when separating the joints (on all but the top joint) as they have been designed with a spiral weave which will unwind when twisted in correct direction.
In standard use these joints will not need a tape stop. For prolonged heavy duty use then it may be of use.
Thanks for the reply Alex (and everyone else). I will grab some gloves for this then. I was wondering how you define "lower" section. Would this be lower as in "lower numbered" section or lower as in "the section closer to the ground when the pole is standing up". I'll assume it means lower number though I will check the weave visually to see if that holds a clue. I will probably have gone out to work before there is a response to this. Tell you what though, it's a great pole to get up to those very high, difficult windows.
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Pair of Marigolds should do it. ;) I took it that the lower sections meant the fatter one closer too the ground when i did it.
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Make sure that you twist the lower section clockwise when separating the joints (on all but the top joint) as they have been designed with a spiral weave which will unwind when twisted in correct direction.
In standard use these joints will not need a tape stop. For prolonged heavy duty use then it may be of use.
Thanks for the reply Alex (and everyone else). I will grab some gloves for this then. I was wondering how you define "lower" section. Would this be lower as in "lower numbered" section or lower as in "the section closer to the ground when the pole is standing up". I'll assume it means lower number though I will check the weave visually to see if that holds a clue. I will probably have gone out to work before there is a response to this. Tell you what though, it's a great pole to get up to those very high, difficult windows.
Replying to my own question here but having given it some thought, clockwise is clockwise whichever way I look at it LOL if you think about it a bit.
That may be part of the problem because when thinking about how I gripped the pole yesterday, it is more natural for me to turn it anti-clockwise.
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Pair of Marigolds should do it. ;) I took it that the lower sections meant the fatter one closer too the ground when i did it.
LOL. Never thought there could be more than one definition of "lower" :)
However, if you grip and turn clockwise, it would still be clockwise whichever end you work from because the pole would be turned around if you worked from the other end anyway.
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Unless you turn it upside down.
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Make sure that you twist the lower section clockwise when separating the joints (on all but the top joint) as they have been designed with a spiral weave which will unwind when twisted in correct direction.
In standard use these joints will not need a tape stop. For prolonged heavy duty use then it may be of use.
Thanks for the reply Alex (and everyone else). I will grab some gloves for this then. I was wondering how you define "lower" section. Would this be lower as in "lower numbered" section or lower as in "the section closer to the ground when the pole is standing up". I'll assume it means lower number though I will check the weave visually to see if that holds a clue. I will probably have gone out to work before there is a response to this. Tell you what though, it's a great pole to get up to those very high, difficult windows.
The lower section means the one nearest the ground.
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following this kind of topic isn't making it any easier for me to commit to buying a modular pole you know! The effort it is saving you seems to be getting somewhat lost in trying to get the thing together and apart again!
On the other hand I may have to get one so that I can follow exactly what on earth you're on about ;D
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the negatives far outweight the bad points, Luke
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the negatives far outweight the bad points, Luke
Should that read the POSITIVES far outweigh the bad points ;D
Dean
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;D
Unfortunately nothing in life is perfect, but the Superlight pole is heading in the right direction.
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Well I could see from the weave and by feeling how much easier it felt by turning t clockwise. Unfortunately, my numbers 3 and 4 sections are still welded together in spite of the best efforts of two burly guys. I tried the hot water treatment to, to no avail. At least I managed to get the thing home anyway. I wedged it onto the roof bars under the brackets that used to sport a pole holder and strapping it tight to the adjacent ladder.
I don't think I've helped my cause much by my previous efforts as it is more natural for me to turn it anti-clockwise. I'm not sure but wonder if this is due to my left handedness.
This has caused me to wonder why natural stops weren't included in the mould for the pole sections - or are they just not made that way?
It's starting to look like I will need to buy a few intermediate sections for the S2. Now that I know a bit more about the pole's quirks, I will be able to work around them better. Looks like when I'm on a very big job and need to work a bit vigorously on the first clean, it would probably be an idea to disassemble the pole once in a while at natural breaks in the work. It's no hardship but I do wish I had been aware of this from the start.
Just for good measure, I used my telescopic fibre glass pole on a part of the job (the bit where I needed something between 10 and 20ft ), and I ended up with the pole hose splitting and soaking me LOL.
In spite of my best efforts, I actually managed to finish the job. Probably my best ever paying weekend, even allowing for needing some pole sections. To put things in perspective, there were windows on that job that I don't think could have been done without a high, very lightweight pole so, in spite of the hassle, it's earned its money.
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I was considering getting a super light pole but I have heard this problem mentioned a few times now. As I work on my own two men with rubber gloves etc is not my idea of fun.
Surely working vertically at height will compress the pole, sticking tape to it would really annoy me especially after spending my hard earned cash. Should the manufactures do something about this problem instead of suggesting tape!
If somebody suggested sticking tape to a new car you just bought to correct a problem, would you all be so accommodating then?
Would a screw fit be better like the Unger modular pole?
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Tape is dead easy you only need to do it once in a while. Mine jammed within ten minutes of use - probably because i picked the sections up from wet grass. No doubt about it it is still a problem with modulars unfortunately.
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Thank goodness there's a telescopic version out soon. I have a supalite pole but only use it for the MOST AWKWARD of windows, (which is once every couple of months for a few minutes, if I really have to as a last resort), because it's an awkward pole to work with, no offence to anyone who uses one.
It's my opinion and I'll stick with telescopics regardless of how much praise other users give this pole.
This pole is light with the lightest of brush heads, but, if you wish to put an alternative brush on, then the pole is awkward to work with because it's top heavy. The USP of this pole relies on using the lightest of brushes available, otherwise it's just another run of the mill pole except that it's awkward being modular and too time consuming.
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Spray? WD40? Marigolds? sections "welding" together?
I wont be buying one anytime soon. Its obviously not fit for the purpose.
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Wayne, polite question, have you tried working any current telescopic 60ft pole other than the modular S2 ?
One day soon there may be a 6.5oz brush.
Quote. "This has caused me to wonder why natural stops weren't included in the mould for the pole sections - or are they just not made that way? By Shiner.
If you think it through, its a natural thought but if you do fit a permanent stop or screw on the pole then as the pole wears it will become loose and spin - say after 2 years. The fixed stop cannot be moved, so you need another pole. But tape can be removed and used lower down.
Kev,
Rolls Royce apart, do you put accessories in a new car. The tape is a neccessary accessory much like a tom tom if you drive a lot, if not you dont need one.
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Hi Tennet, eventually you may change your mind, whats the max height you currently need to work at ?
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Spray? WD40? Marigolds? sections "welding" together?
I wont be buying one anytime soon. Its obviously not fit for the purpose.
Funnily enough, in spite of the problems I've been having, I do actually like using the Superlite 2 - but only on certain types of job. Now that I've discovered a few dos and donts the hard way, I feel that using it in the future will be a lot easier. Naturally I would prefer that it was telescopic but I don't think there is a telescopic pole around of that height that is so light. It sounds like the SL-X will cover that up to 30ft (if telescopic extension piece is included) but I would have preferred one that goes rather higher as that would save the need to go modular at all. On the job I've been doing this weekend, I needed to use a 40ft pole length for some bits and most of the top floor needed a 35ft length. The SL2 coped admirably with it without my body going through too much strain even though some of the high work was at a tricky angle. The bits where I missed having a long telescopic pole were when I had to break the pole down to get under some telephone wires and trees.
I'm starting to regret this thread in case it sounds like I'm being overly critical of the S2. A pole like this was made for the work I've been doing this weekend. If I had used a heavier pole, it would probably have meant returning next weekend to complete the job and would have been more strain on my body.
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Kev,
Rolls Royce apart, do you put accessories in a new car. The tape is a neccessary accessory much like a tom tom if you drive a lot, if not you dont need one.
Im not sure tape should be considered an accessory in this case Jeff.
I have been cleaning windows with water fed poles for some time. The majority of my work is commercial. I have several jobs that I use a 60 ft carbon X-Tel pole for. There is no doubt it is heavier than a fishing rod, However by applying common sense and good working practices I clean all sorts of buildings with no strain or difficulty at this height. It does not take longer if you clean in manageable sections. It is also hard wearing. I have to say having a lighter pole would be a good thing but having used modular poles in the past I dont think this is the way forward. They are hard in use and fragile and they stick together. Just by applying common sense it is obvious a push fit joint will compress under pressure.
I look forward to the arrival of the new super light telescopic pole but thankfully due to forums such as this one I will have several good or bad reviews to go on before I chose to spend my cash or not.
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Im not sure tape should be considered an accessory in this case Jeff.
With the Super-Lite2 I do not recommend tape as an accessory. We use these poles ourselves all of the time and no tape ever goes near our sections! If some find that it suits their working method better with tape then as it is their pole they can fit this if they prefer it, but the vast majority of S2 users (and yes there are a lot of these out there) never have need of this after market addition.
I will be talking to Shiner today on the phone and we will sort this situation out. Sections should not stick together. If necessary replacement sections will be sent out to rectify this situation for him. These sections are hand finished in the factory, sometimes there can be variations in the finishing surface or weave which may explain why this one joint has stuck together. Whatever the reason we will look into it and sort it out.
In testing we have taken sections and with a wooden mallet have hammered the two sections together until they are tighter than would ever be achieved during normal use. We were still able to twist these sections apart. Perhaps I ought to produce a short video on how to easily separate the sections. I will look into this.
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Im not sure tape should be considered an accessory in this case Jeff.
With the Super-Lite2 I do not recommend tape as an accessory. We use these poles ourselves all of the time and no tape ever goes near our sections! If some find that it suits their working method better with tape then as it is their pole they can fit this if they prefer it, but the vast majority of S2 users (and yes there are a lot of these out there) never have need of this after market addition.
I will be talking to Shiner today on the phone and we will sort this situation out. Sections should not stick together. If necessary replacement sections will be sent out to rectify this situation for him. These sections are hand finished in the factory, sometimes there can be variations in the finishing surface or weave which may explain why this one joint has stuck together. Whatever the reason we will look into it and sort it out.
In testing we have taken sections and with a wooden mallet have hammered the two sections together until they are tighter than would ever be achieved during normal use. We were still able to twist these sections apart. Perhaps I ought to produce a short video on how to easily separate the sections. I will look into this.
Although I am not a fan of modular poles, I have never used the the Superlite 2 pole.
Alex in no way are my comments intended as a dig at your pole. I have used modular systems in the past and find them difficult in use, fragile and that they stick together. Through experience I prefer telescopic poles. Maybe when I visit Windex in March you will convert me however I am looking forward to the release of your new telescopic pole and I do hope its as good as it sounds.
Kevin Red
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No probs :)
You're not very far away from us. If you ever want to come down and see the S2 in action or the new SL-X, just give us a ring. We won't actually be at Windex but the SL-X may make an appearance courtesy of a distributor.
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Hi Alex,
Thank you for the offer, I am sure I will make a visit especially to see the new SL-X.
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Hi Alex
When will the SLX be for sale?
Roy
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Wayne, polite question, have you tried working any current telescopic 60ft pole other than the modular S2 ?
One day soon there may be a 6.5oz brush.
Quote. "This has caused me to wonder why natural stops weren't included in the mould for the pole sections - or are they just not made that way? By Shiner.
If you think it through, its a natural thought but if you do fit a permanent stop or screw on the pole then as the pole wears it will become loose and spin - say after 2 years. The fixed stop cannot be moved, so you need another pole. But tape can be removed and used lower down.
Kev,
Rolls Royce apart, do you put accessories in a new car. The tape is a neccessary accessory much like a tom tom if you drive a lot, if not you dont need one.
Hello Jeff,
I am forever using a facelift pole with an ionics gooseneck (as it's lighter and allows me to fit a Tucker brush) for all my work up to 45 ft and an Ionics ergolite carbon with a Tucker brush fitted for the awkward reach 40-45 ft jobs that require a stiffer pole.
I also used a Tucker pole (12 ft sections cut down to 10ft so that it will fit inside my van), with the last 3 sections at 6ft to adjust the height of the pole easily whilst raised up a building.
I'll only use the supalite pole if I'm going higher than 45ft, but shy away from higher work because it's difficult trying to pick a suitable day where wind conditions are near perfect to use this pole. I also shy away from using this pole because a lot of the buildings I clean I find I am very restricted with ground space to stand back at a decent angle to use the pole correctly, because I would have the problem of standing in the middle of busy traffic roads. Also trying to add/remove sections can be awkward and inconvenient at times which is why I prefer telescopics for two main reasons: they are easy to raise/lower and because there is a bit of weight to them which I prefer when working in gusty locations.
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Yep Wayne,
working almost vertically with modulars does mean that you cannot often get the angle to apply pressure and as you say the modulars lengths are often wrong. Sin of sins ::), Since the confinement of some of the 88ft job I have now cut down an old spare cracked extension to shorten it to about 3ft and also keep bits of the Zensorflex to do the same higher up the taper.
The brush angles change when vertical over pavements and in confined areas with handrails and barriers etc acting as an obstacle course when you have your head screwed right back, so I use brushes with soft splay, brushes with bristles at near vertical angles and use many and various angle adapters, one goes at 90 degrees over 14" cills when working vertical. At that angle you just sort of "feel" the glass and trying to find the bottom of the frame.
Yes the telescopics are better in the situations you describe. So I use the short section as above. I carry all my gear on the elecy golf trolley so the sections are at hand. I used to have the 8ft section Ergolites and in close confinement had to stand on steps to alter the height. Also appreciate that the facelift also comes into its own.
We need so much stuff now in our "arsenal"
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Jeff,
I understand you completely and can relate to what you have mentioned. I have never tried your 'bog brush', (excuse the term), style brush although I can see the advantages of it.
To be perfectly honest I don't like the Bentley brush because it's flocked and doesn't splay on the glass. Also, quite a few customers were moaning that the sharp edges of the brush were scratching the sills. I checked for myself and the brush really does scratch the sills, so I don't use it.
I may try the supalite with a bog style brush similar to yours again to compare. I just wish I could fit the Unger Carbon Tec lightweight brush on the supalight pole with a swivel gooseneck as that would be ideal.
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Snap, At Shallow angles the Bentley stands of the glass like a wire brush, and also holds the dirt. I surform the edges off my brushes paticulary the sides because they allow more splay to get in the corners.
Only just done the Hedgehog bog brush so no time to evaluate. But if you do gutters and soffits etc it might be good.
Are the carbon tech bristles soft and short ?
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The Unger carbon tec is very similar in appearance to the Tucker but much lighter in comparison. There's less bristles, so it allows probably twice as much water through. The bristles are mono filament and the brush splays a lot in all the right directions so probably ideal in principal if I could work out a way of attaching it to the supalite pole. I may have to glue an Ionics gooseneck on and attach the brush head to that.
With an Ionics multipole brush the brush splays in one direction only, it's very floppy and heavier. Ionics commercial brush head is good for telescopics but too heavy for the supalite.
I thought about cutting the edges off the bentley brush like you've done but I wear them out within a month or two. All the bristles just fall out so I wouldn't want to waste time faffling around cutting the bristles. I haven't given up looking for an alternative yet.
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wd40 works a treat I've used it for some time now, i learnt it way back i use to use it on my motor on the black bits used to make them shine a treat and water used to run off it like lightning, that's when i realised it was a good water repellent , so it made sense to use it on my first modular pole in its prototype stage cause mine got stuck too but since the use of wd its never happened again the tape trick is spot on Jeff trust you to let that one out of the bag (http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l190/grizzly69_2006/jedi.gif)
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All credit to you Smithys.
How do you use it and does it leave a sticky residue or does it dry off leaving a coating of some sort ?
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It is easy to modify a Tucker/Carbontec unger brush for a Super-lite 2 or any other pole with a vikan style thread. Buy the Brush then go and buy a thread plate from here or your local hardware shop. Simply screw it and glue it to the brush then jet the brush in whatever way you like, Luke
http://www.cleanstore.co.uk/products/Product.asp?ID=2074
(http://www.cleanstore.co.uk/images/large/2074a.JPG)
(http://www.ungerglobal.com/phpworx_images/ct27b.jpg)
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"Thread plate" thats one to learn off you Luke. Seen the heavy galvanised, no good. Will try one. Now where did I put my Vikan/cleantech/ Unger alu adapter.
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I wouldnt recommend putting a thread plate on the larger brushes, but a 11inch one will be fine, Luke
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Thank-you Luke.