Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: JSMC on January 12, 2008, 09:25:59 am
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ok guys if I do go into this window cleaning game I will most likely get some business from GF's father. A question i ask myself a lot is do you guys go into areas wher eothers work and look for business? I am unsure of where people work around my area and wouldn't want to be stepping on peoples toes.
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Targeting another window cleaners work is a definate no no but you do have to work so need to get jobs so canvassing areas is not a problem just set your own prices and dont be swayed by cheaper/dearer window cleaners prices
No window cleaner owns an area so canvass where you want to
also try being friendly with local window cleaners as they may pass work on or be able to tell you where their is work available the downside of this is you may get their problem jobs but it will be a start
Good luck
Dean
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Targeting another window cleaners work is a definate no no
Absolute rubbish! Window cleaning is like any other business, go out and try and get all the business you can.
You don't hear McDonalds saying "We can't open up in this area, theres a Burger King other the road"
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Targeting another window cleaners work is a definate no no
Absolute rubbish! Window cleaning is like any other business, go out and try and get all the business you can.
You don't hear McDonalds saying "We can't open up in this area, theres a Burger King other the road"
so you would be cool a guy coming onto your area and undercutting you?
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Whats absolute rubbish about my advice what you are telling him to do is foolish if you go out and target a window cleaners work then you are asking for trouble and could result in a serious problem if the window cleaner is not a nice person
My advice was to target different areas so that the likelyhood of one window cleaners round being targeted is limited
In future read the whole post you fool >:(
Dean
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what i do is to chat to every window cleaner i meet in the area and warn them that im putting flyers about but let them know im not trying to undercut or nick work of all the window cleaners i have met in 2 plus years only 2 have told me not to start as they have all the business in the area both have turned out to be halfwit morons both hated by the other cleaners and full of the horse stuff and if someone is not happy with their present cleaner
they are to sack them before you take them onto your books has always worked for me
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Dont like that word undercut why do you need to undercut theres plenty of work to go round
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if you target other peoples work then and "undercut" them i think thats pretty pathetic.
Theres plenty of work out there. why does anyone need to try to stop people earning a living.? what if someone did it to you?
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Who said anything about undercutting? ::)
Get realistic Aspects, are you running a business or not.
As for not upsetting other window cleaners incase they are not a nice person, cmon now grow some nuts.
I have never undercut to get work but if a customer wants me to replace their current cleaner, i will do as long as they inform the other party first.
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Who said anything about undercutting? ::)
Get realistic Aspects, are you running a business or not.
As for not upsetting other window cleaners incase they are not a nice person, cmon now grow some nuts.
I have never undercut to get work but if a customer wants me to replace their current cleaner, i will do as long as they inform the other party first.
i think the last section is the way i'd operate. I'd only take on work if they were not happy with their current cleaner. no point in stealing business from people.
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MHall yes i am running a business but obviously in a different way to you and have done very well from it for the past twelve years if you want to go round taking other peoples work then good for you do as you please
i like you never mentioned undercutting so i dont know what you are on about
i have my own pricing and i target the areas i want to but not at the expense of my fellow window cleaner it probably comes down to your own personality as to the way you run and operate a business and also areas and type of work maybe in the big city your attitude will work but in my small backwater it will not
AM I BEING CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU
Dean
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the first thing I do in any area is put flyers out. If anyone wants a window cleaner they will ring. As far as undercutting goes, I have my own prices and if they are cheaper than the windw cleaner in that area the so be it. I wont adjust my prices for any other window cleaners in the area the same as I wouldnt take on any house ifit looks like they already have one
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All this strikes me as nonsense. I canvass wherever I want. I leaflet, then follow up with a door knock.
You can't "target" another window cleaners work unless his customers are unhappy with him.
You knock, the householder says "No thank you, I've got one already" So what are you going to do then? Tell them they've got to move over to you or you'll bash 'em with an iron bar?
You can't poach another man's work unless you ask the customer how much they're paying, then offer to do it for less. Anyone who does this is stupid, because they'll make enemies who could be very nasty, and the customers they gain won't be worth having because they'll drop you for the next one who comes along.
Anyone who does a good job has nothing to fear from competition, so we should all be running our businesses on that basis, and living and working side by side with no "my patch - your patch" attitudes.
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All this strikes me as nonsense. I canvass wherever I want. I leaflet, then follow up with a door knock.
You can't "target" another window cleaners work unless his customers are unhappy with him.
You knock, the householder says "No thank you, I've got one already" So what are you going to do then? Tell them they've got to move over to you or you'll bash 'em with an iron bar?
You can't poach another man's work unless you ask the customer how much they're paying, then offer to do it for less. Anyone who does this is stupid, because they'll make enemies who could be very nasty, and the customers they gain won't be worth having because they'll drop you for the next one who comes along.
Anyone who does a good job has nothing to fear from competition, so we should all be running our businesses on that basis, and living and working side by side with no "my patch - your patch" attitudes.
Good Post that is Ian, and so so true.
Ian
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Targeting another window cleaners work is a definate no no
Absolute rubbish! Window cleaning is like any other business, go out and try and get all the business you can.
You don't hear McDonalds saying "We can't open up in this area, theres a Burger King other the road"
Well said mhall I agree, market and be damned.
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Targeting another window cleaners work is a definate no no
Absolute rubbish! Window cleaning is like any other business, go out and try and get all the business you can.
You don't hear McDonalds saying "We can't open up in this area, theres a Burger King other the road"
Well said mhall I agree aspects is talking throught his arse, market and be damned.
Why am i talking as you put it "out my arse"??
I have loads of work as do most window cleaners in this area we help each other here
and it works rather well as i have said before if you are happy running your business that way then do so it is no skin off my nose
Dean
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Sorry Dean
I was just about to delete that, I didnt mean it to sound that bad, I dont agree with you, but it is your opinion and a valid one.
I get a bit peed off when I hear the old "my patch" & "undercutting" line especially when it is said to someone who is just getting into the business and has plenty to focus on without worrying about other window cleaners and what they charge.
This is a business not a vocation IMO :)
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Bluez appolgy accepted i dont believe in the "my patch" window cleaners either
but out of respect for local window cleaners i know i steer clear of their work
Having said that i will be over the next couple of months be canvassing certain house types and commercial whether they already have a window cleaner i do not know
the point i am trying to put across is to target one window cleaners round is a no no
I hope i have cleared that up
Dean
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How can you possibly target another cleaners round, it is virtually impossible, unless you follow him arround for a month and write down the addresses that he cleans ( Dont think this is very likely).
No matter where another cleaner works there will be properties he doesnt cover, even if he says there all his.
Its a free market, you go where you want to go. Price at your price, if you get the work you get the work. If another cleaner loses out what are you supposed to do?
Deliberately undercutting another cleaner to get work isnt the way forward.
Price buyers will drop you if they get a lower price, who wants to build a round of "price buyers".
Mark
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I give up!!!
Run your businesses as you see fit and i will run mine as i see fit
I think in future i will keep my advice to my self
Dean
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Dean, don't get your knickers in a twist over this. I agree with you, I don't try to pinch other wc work and I deffo don't undercut. My view is there is plenty of work out there so there should be no need to poach work. That tactic might lead to tit for tat targeting of your customers and then your one step away from customers playing you off against the other guy to get a lower price, then we'll ALL be in the cack! :( Lets stick together, show a little respect to one another and we'll all prosper ;)
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Dean, don't get your knickers in a twist over this. I agree with you, I don't try to pinch other wc work and I deffo don't undercut. My view is there is plenty of work out there so there should be no need to poach work. That tactic might lead to tit for tat targeting of your customers and then your one step away from customers playing you off against the other guy to get a lower price, then we'll ALL be in the cack! :( Lets stick together, show a little respect to one another and we'll all prosper ;)
great words, but unlikely to happen :(
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Dean, don't get your knickers in a twist over this.
;D ;D ;D
Just re read this whole post and you are right i did get my knickers in a twist needlessly
I think we were trying to argue different sides of the same coin
Dean
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Well OK what do you do if a potential custie says
they want you to do the job as you can reach the 3rd floor with your WFP system and the other cleaner can not do it. they also add that they have become a bit irregular and are happy to change even though you charge a couple of pound more?
What would you guys do?
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Targeting another window cleaners work is a definate no no
Absolute rubbish! Window cleaning is like any other business, go out and try and get all the business you can.
You don't hear McDonalds saying "We can't open up in this area, theres a Burger King other the road"
your right MacDonalds don't say that but they also don't get their staff to stand outside Burger king's door saying don't go in there come over to us!!
Competition is healthy but one thing is for sure, you will succeed in this business far easier by making friends not enemies with the other window cleaners in your area. There are enough houses for everyone to make a living without deliberately taking work from each other?
Over the years i have lost count how many people try to undercut my work only to disappear shortly afterwards because they are working for peanuts??
I regularly pass on work to other window cleaners when i get enquiries from areas I am not covering and vice versa, we have enough problems to deal with in the weather, collecting etc...without fellow window cleaners deliberately targeting our work, just doesn't make any sense at all?
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[quote
You knock, the householder says "No thank you, I've got one already" So what are you going to do then? Tell them they've got to move over to you or you'll bash 'em with an iron bar?
;D ;D ;D ;D
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[quote
You can't poach another man's work unless you ask the customer how much they're paying, then offer to do it for less. Anyone who does this is stupid, because they'll make enemies who could be very nasty, and the customers they gain won't be worth having because they'll drop you for the next one who comes along.
There are some that ask the ££ question just for this reason! But remember the customer may be paying £20.00 really, tell the canvasser £16.00 and then get told "i'll do it for £14.00"
Never ask potential custies for the price they are paying at the moment until you have done your assessement and formed your own price. In fact what is the point of asking anway...you are only there because you would like their business, so just go with your own pricing structure ;)
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Helen that is fantastic!! :)
I'm going to try that tomorrow, I'll let you know how I get on.
ps: Are you allowed internet access whilst in custody? :-[
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your right MacDonalds don't say that but they also don't get their staff to stand outside Burger king's door saying don't go in there come over to us!!
Your missing the point Trevor, nobodies talking about trying to undercut and poach customers here, we are simply saying unless you followed a window cleaner around and noted his work, how could you possibly target it?
Were simply saying that there is no such thing as "my area" / "my patch"
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Targeting another window cleaners work is a definate no no
Absolute rubbish! Window cleaning is like any other business, go out and try and get all the business you can.
You don't hear McDonalds saying "We can't open up in this area, theres a Burger King other the road"
your right MacDonalds don't say that but they also don't get their staff to stand outside Burger king's door saying don't go in there come over to us!!
Competition is healthy but one thing is for sure, you will succeed in this business far easier by making friends not enemies with the other window cleaners in your area. There are enough houses for everyone to make a living without deliberately taking work from each other?
Over the years i have lost count how many people try to undercut my work only to disappear shortly afterwards because they are working for peanuts??
I regularly pass on work to other window cleaners when i get enquiries from areas I am not covering and vice versa, we have enough problems to deal with in the weather, collecting etc...without fellow window cleaners deliberately targeting our work, just doesn't make any sense at all?
You're so right about keeping things sweet with other window cleaners Trevor. A fair bit of work has come my way from other window cleaners who don't have a pole system. I've even covered a couple of their holidays on their scheduled commercial work. It's nice to have a good reputation for not being a poacher because word soon gets around if you don't play it straight. As for gaining new domestic work, I have sometimes asked a new customer how much their previous window cleaner charged. I have only got the work usually because the previous guy stopped calling and I only ask the question after my quote has been accepted. I only ask to try and guage how my pricing structure is in a particular area. I'm nearly always more expensive though, at one job, it turned out that the previous guy used to charge about 5 times more than me. It sounded like he was taking liberties because my price was a good'un
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when it gets like this you need to start to worry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ07TjyHfw8&feature=related
and for contracts I go for and dont get watch out.
thank is a joke by the way ::) :-\ :P
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Every cleaner has a price that he is willing to work for, this price varies from one cleaner to the next.
Now if he wants to canvass an area where a window cleaner is already working, and he is also cheaper than this cleaner, what should he do? should he increase his prices or should he not canvass the area.
If he moves away from this area because someone is already cleaning, what about the houses that don't have or can't afford this cleaner?
I am expensive compared to other cleaners, but it dosn't bother me if other cleaners start to canvass my customers, (I have helped quite a few to get started) if my customers are unhappy with the service I give them, then they will move to another cleaner, if they think that I am overpriced for what I do, then they will also go to another cheaper cleaner. but if they feel that I offer value for money then they will stay with me.
At the moment I DO NOT clean every property in the areas that I work and I don't think that any cleaner, cleans every property in his area, untill this happens then any area is open to compertion.
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It's all well and good to talk about not steping on toes when you hav an estalished round. I started in July and since then have had 10000 leaflets dropped in my area. I am so glad I didn't get my address printed on the leaflet and that would be my advise to any startup. In the months since then I have had so many threats I don't like using the mobile that takes the calls from the leaflets anymore. It just feels nasty!
If I was to try and be matey matey with the local cleaners I wouldn't have got off the ground. They are running a business the same as us and will not want you to gain custom regardless of how friendly you are. I know there will be exceptions but in general if they have any sense they will not want you to succed at their expense.
Having said all that, specifially targetting another cleaners round is a no no and could land you in hospital, afterall that is a pretty in your face thing to do.
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When I door knock, if they say they have a w/cleaner already, I just say 'ta very much' and I'm off.
I target people who do not have a window cleaner, not people who do have one, that makes no sense.
There is enough work out there for all I think ;D
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When I door knock, if they say they have a w/cleaner already, I just say 'ta very much' and I'm off.
I target people who do not have a window cleaner, not people who do have one, that makes no sense.
There is enough work out there for all I think ;D
That is so so true Dale ;) now if only others followed this there would be less bloodloss
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Anyway, can't you lot sleep?...... that goes for me as well
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Anyway, can't you lot sleep?...... that goes for me as well
sleep ??? have sites to design ;)
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Quite a lot of people don't tell you they already have a window cleaner and just ask you for a quote. When you tell them your price they say "Oh no my present window cleaner only charges me £xxx."
Sneaky
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Well OK what do you do if a potential custie says
they want you to do the job as you can reach the 3rd floor with your WFP system and the other cleaner can not do it. they also add that they have become a bit irregular and are happy to change even though you charge a couple of pound more?
What would you guys do?
you have a good point in that question and one I would have liked to have seen some answers to mainly because I was in that exact situation last week, The only reason I had been asked to quote was because of 2 windows over a conservatory and one 2nd floor window, she picked up on the fact i wasn't keen to take the job when I asked if she was happy with there work in general,
she's calling me if they don't turn up but I think she'll end up ditching them anyway.
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Well OK what do you do if a potential custie says
they want you to do the job as you can reach the 3rd floor with your WFP system and the other cleaner can not do it. they also add that they have become a bit irregular and are happy to change even though you charge a couple of pound more?
What would you guys do?
I didn't notice this post before.
Although I don't intentionally target other people's work and I don't go around trying to undercut, I would offer a quote in this situation. Indeed, I have gained several jobs like this. If someone is unable to do the whole job because they haven't invested in the tools to do it, I believe it's perfectly reasonable for me to quote for such a job. I picked one up fairly recently where my quote was a fiver higher but I could get to two windows over the conservatory. I didn't know the other guy's price when I quoted.
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I agree with Helen regarding pricing a quote. Always decide the price you want for the job and not to ask how much the previous w/c charged. The customer will soon tell you if you are more expensive than their previous w/c unless they are not too bothered about the price or are too polite. :)
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sum times custy tells porkys i love them to gasp
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personally dont believe theres such a thing as a persons area.we apparently live in a democratic country.no one person has the right to any one area.only thing i would consider as out of order would be deliberately targeting and undercutting
another window cleaners round.
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personally dont believe theres such a thing as a persons area.we apparently live in a democratic country.no one person has the right to any one area.only thing i would consider as out of order would be deliberately targeting and undercutting
another window cleaners round.
agree on that 100%
only one person has ever done that to me, they are on here aswell ::)
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There is no EXCLUSIVE ROUNDS. Target wherever you like, be competive and do a proffesional job. work is built on reliability and proffesionalisim. Go on courses and join a trade organisation like NFWCA. There is no need to undercut anyones price. The ethos of being in business is to maximise earning and profit. Keep pushing up the price and deliver a quality job.....
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It is a free country everyone is entitled to go and target and undercut everyone else, if they are so thick and stupid that they want to do so and don't realise that undercutting is the way to poverty.
Obviously people who do that are those that have no confidence and are taking what they think is the easy option,(to poverty as I said) but we do live in a democracy and what right have we to dictate how people live, as long as they abide by the law.
99% of customers require reliable service anyway as we all know. Price is not the major consideration.
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It is a free country everyone is entitled to go and target and undercut everyone else, if they are so thick and stupid that they want to do so and don't realise that undercutting is the way to poverty.
Obviously people who do that are those that have no confidence and are taking what they think is the easy option,(to poverty as I said) but we do live in a democracy and what right have we to dictate how people live, as long as they abide by the law.
99% of customers require reliable service anyway as we all know. Price is not the major consideration.
dont know the area you come from but many try an dictate price, these are not on my rounds by the way, undercutting is plain worng one it make the dole chancers work for less which i think is worng as they are one step nearer to being caught, and 2.. I cant say that on here I will get banned
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Hi Ian, if someone is going to change their reliable conscientious window cleaner (me or you) because some else comes round and offers to do it for £10 instead of £12, or whatever, then they are not worth having as a customer. Regarding customers dictating price, I dictate the price, the other day I said £16pm thinking I was being generous, they said our last window cleaner charged £8. I just walked away after politely explaining the situation. Regarding dole bludgers, sod them, decent customers wouldn't even speak to them let alone allow them to clean their windows.
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Hi Ian, if someone is going to change their reliable conscientious window cleaner (me or you) because some else comes round and offers to do it for £10 instead of £12, or whatever, then they are not worth having as a customer. Regarding customers dictating price, I dictate the price, the other day I said £16pm thinking I was being generous, they said our last window cleaner charged £8. I just walked away after politely explaining the situation. Regarding dole bludgers, sod them, decent customers wouldn't even speak to them let alone allow them to clean their windows.
good on you dude, you think the same as I do ;)
Ian
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Ian, I know but I still think u have the right to undercut if u so wish. Although I never would as we know it is idiocy. But freedom is a right.
Overcutting is much better ;D
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Talking about the original thread. Started window cleaning 16 years ago. Did houses for one year.(Hard work) Met a very few other cleaners, got on great, no one had an area, once exceptionally, in one street of 40 houses was 5 w/cleaners.
Then went commercial for 8 years,not rich but good easy money, then got a class 1 HGV and went travelling about and worked when needed money for 6 years or so.
Been back on the windows (houses) WFP for 3 months only seen 2 other w/cleaners, so never ever come across areas on domestic work in both my w/cleaning careers although it does happen on shopping streets.
Thought of going WFP about 7 yrs ago but it was new and lure of travelling was too great. You can't have everything.