Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: windowwashers on December 28, 2007, 04:14:41 pm
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Just had a complaint from a customer :-[ I go round there and windows are totally spotfree :-\ so I knock on the door to a man smiling and tut tut tuting, and then out comes a red faced lady with a white tissue saying I have not cleaned the frames ::) now I did these myself so I know they are done, so I ask where the problem is and out comes a new white tissue and wipes under the frame sill ::) then goes into to one because I have not cleaned the vents.
I do my best to stay professional and say sry as it is dark I cant do them again but I do not clean the under side of a down stairs sill as I am not kneeling down to do it. I am shocked that anyone would ever wipe a frame down that looks clean.
She then said I pay you to clean my frames and my relpy to that was no as I said to you I do these free of charge, but will do better next time if possible, I can only do my best and if you are still not happy then I guess you will have to cancel she then says next door is not happy either :'( so after saying sry to her I go and knock on next door, and she was happy I asked she said they look great.
Now I really want to bin this woman as I have never been so shocked in my life, I will clean them again next time as see what she says first as emotion is no way to run a business.
I am so glad this was at the end of the day and I had left my phone at home or it would have made the best day I have had so far bad.
A white tissue has anyone else had this ?????
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i havent had this, they usually come out pointing saying why are the windows wet, arent you going to shammy leather them off! hmmm
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Just had a complaint from a customer :-[ I go round there and windows are totally spotfree :-\ so I knock on the door to a man smiling and tut tut tuting, and then out comes a red faced lady with a white tissue saying I have not cleaned the frames ::) now I did these myself so I know they are done, so I ask where the problem is and out comes a new white tissue and wipes under the frame sill ::) then goes into to one because I have not cleaned the vents.
I do my best to stay professional and say sry as it is dark I cant do them again but I do not clean the under side of a down stairs sill as I am not kneeling down to do it. I am shocked that anyone would ever wipe a frame down that looks clean.
She then said I pay you to clean my frames and my relpy to that was no as I said to you I do these free of charge, but will do better next time if possible, I can only do my best and if you are still not happy then I guess you will have to cancel she then says next door is not happy either :'( so after saying sry to her I go and knock on next door, and she was happy I asked she said they look great.
Now I really want to bin this woman as I have never been so shocked in my life, I will clean them again next time as see what she says first as emotion is no way to run a business.
I am so glad this was at the end of the day and I had left my phone at home or it would have made the best day I have had so far bad.
A white tissue has anyone else had this ?????
Well I would explain that doing the vents would cause a poorer quality job unless the wanted to pay double for me to return the next day to brush over any runs from them. This customer sounds very close to a dumping. In fact, if they had been rude or personal in their manner of complaint, that would be an instant dumping.
As for under the sills. Well I don't do under the sills even on the top windows - and that could show up from the ground.
Come to think of it, maybe an instant dumping IS in order :)
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Sounds like she wants an excuse to say not today thanks. Or perhaps you caught her on a bad day? ::)
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Sounds like she wants an excuse to say not today thanks. Or perhaps you caught her on a bad day? ::)
I am hoping a bad day, I made her pay anyway as I was happy with work I did windows and frames where all clean, just not white tissue clean as that is impossible.
Will see next time although I dont like binning customers there is a limit, her card is marked
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She'll probably be wearing the white gloves next time. ;D
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don't let her mess you around............. BIN HER
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one of the main reasons we never did houses is of these petty people who have nothing more better to do,go commercial all day ;D or go back and give her a cloth,when she asks whats this,say do it yourself :P
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Terry does your firm ever use WFP,you say you do only commercial that`s what made me ask,cheers.
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Terry does your firm ever use WFP,you say you do only commercial that`s what made me ask,cheers.
at his speed he dont need wfp, although I would give him a run for his money :P.
I choose wfp for safety ;)
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Just because you can clean window`s fast by hand dosen`t mean you`ll do loads over the course of the week-month,you still have to go up and down a ladder and that`s what slows you down working trad.Up and down that ladder all week gets you down and gets you knackered,the time thursday comes you`ve had enough of it where`s with the pole it`s a peice of pee walking from window to window,you go home when you get bored not when your worn out.I`m not having a dig at Terry as he`s been in the game a long time and probobly has his round well sorted,plenty of shopfronts with easy access.
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don't let her mess you around............. BIN HER
I agree 100%!
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don't let her mess you around............. BIN HER
I agree 100%!
I am giving another chance, why bin a good house on emotion
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It`s not emotion mate she sounds like every WC`s nightmare,customers start as they mean to go on beleive me.1st thing is she wants a £20 job for a fiver,and women that come out waving a hanky around wiping down the window sills are only agro in my experience,if your keeping her on all i can say is you must need the work mate.
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Her expectations were unreasonable and I think you handled this as well as any of us could. I agree with your comments, and I doubt I would pass the white cloth test either.
I would say though that people have warned me on here of 'over promising' either in my leaflet or otherwise. I 'm guessing she is a fairly recent customer.
I'm sorry it ruined your otherwise good day and I'm glad the neighbours responce gave you some peice of mind. Try and take a balanced view about this.
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Her expectations were unreasonable and I think you handled this as well as any of us could. I agree with your comments, and I doubt I would pass the white cloth test either.
I would say though that people have warned me on here of 'over promising' either in my leaflet or otherwise. I 'm guessing she is a fairly recent customer.
I'm sorry it ruined your otherwise good day and I'm glad the neighbours responce gave you some peice of mind. Try and take a balanced view about this.
Mr S, if I am being frank about it, I never got worried about my work in the slightest I was more p'ed off that she had the goul to say these things to me when her windows were disGusting with the capital G I have been cleaning them a few times now, maybe she was having a bad day, I was having a great one did 2 days target in one so was over the moon (and no all houses cleaned the same I did check a few and all fine)
when someone winds me up I try and stay calm now as I have a good name in this area, I picked up 3 more houses aswell today and cleaned them aswell so I must be doing something right somewhere.
the white cloth test is near on impossible to pass it was windy here today so dir in area ect, she IMO is off her rocker or is having a bad day, I will laugh about this tomorrow just at the mo it is annoying the hell out of me as the windows were all spotless
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i would give her another chance, she may turn out to be a model customer, i've had it happen before.
what do you have to lose? ;) if i binned people of every slight problem how would i expect to grow...very slowly is the answer ;)
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i would give her another chance, she may turn out to be a model customer, i've had it happen before.
what do you have to lose? ;) if i binned people of every slight problem how would i expect to grow...very slowly is the answer ;)
Nat I agree with you 110% hence why I did not say to her she is canceled.
I sustain growth and this is one of the reason why, she was a good customer and I hope she was having a bad day, I will see next time and I will do them myself, if she does this again I will give her the clean free and then cancel her, as she would be a customer that is not good for business
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WC`s syndrome is being afraid to dump customers in the fear that it will snowball,it won`t all your doing is filtering the rubbish into a pile.Just as long as the pile is not to high so that it affects the big picture it dosen`t matter,how often do you dump 1 and then go round the corner and pick 1 up.
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its not being afraidv NWH, its just making a rash judgement after 1 visit
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WC`s syndrome is being afraid to dump customers in the fear that it will snowball,it won`t all your doing is filtering the rubbish into a pile.Just as long as the pile is not to high so that it affects the big picture it dosen`t matter,how often do you dump 1 and then go round the corner and pick 1 up.
|NWH I have been cleaning windows and running a business for long enough to know that, I have also learnt that dumping a customer is not always the best thing to do after one little thing, I used to do this, but I got wise to not doing it,
Work straight and run business smart ;)
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Work smart and run a business,what with putting up with idiots like that i think not.Your customers obviously don`t know how you run your business if there P***ing you about like that,why would you want to keep customers like that for. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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cause you could potentially earn solid money from them month in month out. disposing after 1 visit is just arrogant and stupid!
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Work smart and run a business,what with putting up with idiots like that i think not.Your customers obviously don`t know how you run your business if there P***ing you about like that,why would you want to keep customers like that for. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
because this is the first time she has ever had a problem, if I just stopped she will talk, a 1 happy customer may talk to 5 people an unhappy customer will speak to hundreds think about it.
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Work smart and run a business,what with putting up with idiots like that i think not.Your customers obviously don`t know how you run your business if there P***ing you about like that,why would you want to keep customers like that for. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
because this is the first time she has ever had a problem, if I just stopped she will talk, a 1 happy customer may talk to 5 people an unhappy customer will speak to hundreds think about it.
sorry WW
But that does not make too much sense. ::). you said that her card is marked so if she mucks you around the second time and you drop her, whats stopping her from talking to other customers Then ::).. I am with you on giving customers a second chance , But when they are like that you will just be paronoid when you go to her house..
Nathanael Jones is right Dump her ;D
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Those 5 that she talks to will know not to mess you around.
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or cancel if she knows them well!
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Those 5 that she talks to will know not to mess you around.
I am not worried about 5 people knowing I will not be messed about it is more the person that has a problem will always say the same, I am not a one man band that just picks up on and replaces
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Oh well. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Just because someone says they have people working for them means NOTHING,if you have people working for you then you need the work so i can see why you would won`t to put up with idots like that day in day out LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Just because someone says they have people working for them means NOTHING,if you have people working for you then you need the work so i can see why you would won`t to put up with idots like that day in day out LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I am guessing you have been at the sherry, I dont put up with as you call them (Idoits) I tend to call them customers and they pay for my living and my wifes hairdressers bill. I would not put up with this type of comment on a regular basis, but have learnt over time it is best not to be hasty as people that speak up are normally very good customers, maybe she did have a bad day maybe not, I will find this out next time and will deal with it there after.
Ian
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I don’t see to much of a problem with her as she thought when you said you clean all the frames she properly thought all around the whole window unit (vents & under window ledges).
Just keep cleaning the way you do and she will get used to it.
I don’t know about you but ive picked loads up saying that there old window cleaner never cleaned the frames but did they dump there window cleaner? No.. is the answer they just want a regular cleaner.
Just put up with her, she will come up good in the end.
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Just because someone says they have people working for them means NOTHING!
just that you could earn more money or maybe not actually doing much work to earn more money...just paperwork and good management as a job role ;)
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I don’t see to much of a problem with her as she thought when you said you clean all the frames she properly thought all around the whole window unit (vents & under window ledges).
Just keep cleaning the way you do and she will get used to it.
I don’t know about you but ive picked loads up saying that there old window cleaner never cleaned the frames but did they dump there window cleaner? No.. is the answer they just want a regular cleaner.
Just put up with her, she will come up good in the end.
I explain to every customer what we do and dont do when cleaning.
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Nat you don`t now what your on about mate,i know someone that has 4 blokes working for him and he earns less than me.If you have staff you might turnover a lot of money but that`s not what counts.
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ok NWH i don't know what i'm on about mate ;) ::)
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At least you admit it,that`s something i suppose.
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of course mate you know best ;D ::)
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Listen and learn me old mate. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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:-*
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now now guys.
I earn less than you NWH, does that make you feel better ;)
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he's off in la la land at the moment he will be along soon ;D
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Reminds me of the 'March-Out' cleans i used to do on a military site, where the estate manager would run his finger over the architrave running round a door-frame to see if there was any dust on the top sill whenever a family was moving out prior to the next lot moving in.
Mind you, from what Ive heard about your window-cleaning Ian, shes expecting a silk purse form a sows ear ;D
In all honesty, messing about aside, Id say shes expecting a bit much, windows are on the outside of the house afterall, does she ask the spiders to move along nicely, like the baliff does when your house gets repossesed?
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I've never had this point of view from a customer - if I kept her on for one more try then I would say "I don't clean under cills as it messes up my brush and gets more dirt on the bits where it matters - ie the glass."
But if the job was low value and my round is over-full then it would be bye-bye!
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I'd probably giver her another chance, but also explain that her expectations are unreasonable. However if she was abusive she would be off the books right away. I'd say though that you've got reason to take her off now if you wanted seeing as she said that her neighbor wasn't happy when she was.
Simon.
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All this talk about dumping. Let's put it in perspective again, she has moaned once and been good until now. She has come out with an incredibly petty expectation and that that rings alarm bells, but it's worth keep taking her money if it is a one off and it doesn't cause stress in future.
I suspect she might be one of those who hasn't come to terms with wfp and is probably thinking that you use take longer to do her windows, so she has gone looking for a fault, couldn't find one with the glass and went looking for anything she could find.
The next clean will let you know for sure if she's worth having or not.
Bringing the neighbour into it under false pretences is out of order though.
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I had a lady query recently why I hadn't done anything about the cobwebs and black mould growing on the eaves of her bungalow where they jutted out over the windows.
I think she accepted my explaination but we will find out next time I go there. Its down to unrealistic expectations and having nothing better to do.
I also recently had a lady phone me up after a first clean and tell me very nicely, even appologetically that she didn't want me to come back. I asked her if there was something wrong with the windows. "Oh no" she says "they are lovely, never seen them looking so good" It turned out she just didn't like this new way of doing the windows. " I suppose I'm a bit old fashoned".
You never know whats going on in their minds.
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WC`s syndrome is being afraid to dump customers in the fear that it will snowball,it won`t all your doing is filtering the rubbish into a pile.Just as long as the pile is not to high so that it affects the big picture it dosen`t matter,how often do you dump 1 and then go round the corner and pick 1 up.
A true point...well said
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WC`s syndrome is being afraid to dump customers in the fear that it will snowball,it won`t all your doing is filtering the rubbish into a pile.Just as long as the pile is not to high so that it affects the big picture it dosen`t matter,how often do you dump 1 and then go round the corner and pick 1 up.
A true point...well said
from the view of a one man band I am guessing
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WC`s syndrome is being afraid to dump customers in the fear that it will snowball,it won`t all your doing is filtering the rubbish into a pile.Just as long as the pile is not to high so that it affects the big picture it dosen`t matter,how often do you dump 1 and then go round the corner and pick 1 up.
A true point...well said
from the view of a one man band I am guessing
LOL...maybe a four man gang will be the answer!!!
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WC`s syndrome is being afraid to dump customers in the fear that it will snowball,it won`t all your doing is filtering the rubbish into a pile.Just as long as the pile is not to high so that it affects the big picture it dosen`t matter,how often do you dump 1 and then go round the corner and pick 1 up.
A true point...well said
from the view of a one man band I am guessing
LOL...maybe a four man gang will be the answer!!!
lol
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I`m thinking of employing 3-4 blokes and paying myself the same as them after expenses,i have customers that constantly moan,i have all the paper work and phone calls to deal with but ,that`s ok at least i can say i have people working for me LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I`m thinking of employing 3-4 blokes and paying myself the same as them after expenses,i have customers that constantly moan,i have all the paper work and phone calls to deal with but ,that`s ok at least i can say i have people working for me LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
why would you pay yourself the same as them ::)
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WC`s syndrome is being afraid to dump customers in the fear that it will snowball,it won`t all your doing is filtering the rubbish into a pile.Just as long as the pile is not to high so that it affects the big picture it dosen`t matter,how often do you dump 1 and then go round the corner and pick 1 up.
A true point...well said
from the view of a one man band I am guessing
LOL...maybe a four man gang will be the answer!!!
lol
Maybe I'm joking here mate..lol...anyway mate I just walk away from customers if they moan to much..you will always find more..its works for me down here in Essex 8)
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Ian i`m thinking of taking some of the advice on here LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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NWH there is one benifit to employing staff that maybe you haven't considered, If you have work for four staff then the value of your business is probably higher, this may be a consideration for some people. I know that in my way of thinking everything is always for sale and the value of my business is sometimes (not often mind) more important than the amount of money that I get out of it in any given week.
On the main point of dumping or not I tend to try to keep my customers where possible and sometimes they just want to have a moan and get it off their chests. Let them at it so long as they keep paying. Another trick is to do the job when you think they are out.
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Ian i`m thinking of taking some of the advice on here LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
what are you like lol
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I`m thinking of employing 3-4 blokes and paying myself the same as them after expenses,i have customers that constantly moan,i have all the paper work and phone calls to deal with but ,that`s ok at least i can say i have people working for me LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
you really are norrow minded NWH. no wonder you haven't been able to successfully employ people with out hassle, your arrogance is really shining through.
i can't be bothered to go into the costing and logistics of it all as it will seem like gloating. but if you believe one man and his van can earn you more than a successfully bulit business then you don't need me to tell you what an idiot you are.
sad but true!!
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Nat how much do you earn employing.
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I once knew a window cleaner that produced the worst results I have ever seen. He never possessed a scrim, and use old bar towels he cadged from a pub.
Over the years, this guy must have lost half of his new customers after the first couple of cleans, but he eventually ended up with a full round of non complaining customers and no stress.
If I take my car to the car wash, and pay a fiver, I don't expect to have my car valeted, and it would be unreasonable for me to do so, and that IMO is what this lady was, totally unreasonable, bad day or not she would have been dropped.
I have persevered with a few unreasonable customers over the years, and then find I am spending twice as long to do their windows for no extra cost. I used to worry in case they could find something to pick on, it's just not worth the effort or stress. DUMP and move on.
I never canvass for work, it all comes from personal referrals from existing customers. Dai
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I once knew a window cleaner that produced the worst results I have ever seen. He never possessed a scrim, and use old bar towels he cadged from a pub.
Over the years, this guy must have lost half of his new customers after the first couple of cleans, but he eventually ended up with a full round of non complaining customers and no stress.
If I take my car to the car wash, and pay a fiver, I don't expect to have my car valeted, and it would be unreasonable for me to do so, and that IMO is what this lady was, totally unreasonable, bad day or not she would have been dropped.
I have persevered with a few unreasonable customers over the years, and then find I am spending twice as long to do their windows for no extra cost. I used to worry in case they could find something to pick on, it's just not worth the effort or stress. DUMP and move on.
I never canvass for work, it all comes from personal referrals from existing customers. Dai
100% truth!
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More than you NWH!! ;) ;D
I don't think its appropriate to share that info on here but its far greater than what one person could earn on their own. if you wish to gloat about how much cash you earn then thats up to you. i'm stating the fact that a successful business/team will earn you far much more money than a one person show! one person is limited to a certain amount each day even with the best and creamy work. if you have a winning formula you can keep building. i have a 10 year plan we can talk again then if you wish and we can share pound notes and hopefully you will still be in good health from all your work you have encountered over the past 10 years.
my business is not where i want it to be but it has doubled in turnover in 2007 and the aim is to keep going at the same rate each year for 10 years. tell me that you can grow and expand like that when your a one man show? i think not!!
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I am not a 1 man band.
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what are we arguing about then?
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How many staff do you have.
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why?
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LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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how many do you have?
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Why. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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well then you fool! ;D
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:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Come on you two you can do better than than that.You have to back your opinions with either logic or experience.
On another recent thread Ian Lancaster said that you had to beat 35%. This was the magic number needed for the ratio of paying an employee against money brought in.
The problem I have with this is that an employee must earn £210 to earn himself £70 for a days work, and very often I don't hit the higher figure myself. What do you say to that Nat?
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what i say to that is your not charging enough if all you can do is £210 a day on your own.
i really ain't going into more depth than that. otherwise an on slaught will start about gloating with how much money you should earn.
I've seen it happen before and i ain't getting caught in the middle of it...sorry!
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Nat if you have say 3-4 staff with vehicles and equipment i take it your earning somewhere between 20-25k a month.
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read my last post!!
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I know what you mean about getting caught in the onslaught. I don't mind or disbelieve that you can out earn me. It's your basic expansion strategy that I'm interested in.
Several on here say they have been bigger but dropped back down to solo and earn more- Ian Giles the moderater has made comments to this effect-. Others like Helen and Dave seem to employ in a workmanlike way and chase contracts, while still others have franchisees.
You know enought about this forum to know that no ones going to believe you anyway so you might as wel just say. What's your secret Nat?
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What's your secret Nat?
If you've found a winning formula why would you want to share it? sorry but i don't wish to.
people can believe what they want it really don't bother me.
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I once knew a window cleaner that produced the worst results I have ever seen. He never possessed a scrim, and use old bar towels he cadged from a pub.
Over the years, this guy must have lost half of his new customers after the first couple of cleans, but he eventually ended up with a full round of non complaining customers and no stress.
If I take my car to the car wash, and pay a fiver, I don't expect to have my car valeted, and it would be unreasonable for me to do so, and that IMO is what this lady was, totally unreasonable, bad day or not she would have been dropped.
I have persevered with a few unreasonable customers over the years, and then find I am spending twice as long to do their windows for no extra cost. I used to worry in case they could find something to pick on, it's just not worth the effort or stress. DUMP and move on.
I never canvass for work, it all comes from personal referrals from existing customers. Dai
100% truth!
Yes I agree, 100% right
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The formular is easy to work out but not as easy to keep up with, mine is for eight years. ;)
Pro
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I don't understand the reluctance to accept that window cleaning can be run as any other service business. I employ between 3 and 6 staff depending on the time of year and the volume of work. Now I will not try to tell you that everything is rosy all the time but the general idea is that if you can make 20 to 25% of the turnover of each employee and build up a valuable business that you would not be capable of doing on your own.
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" the general idea is that if you can make 20 to 25% of the turnover of each employee and build up a more valuable business than you would be capable of doing on your own."
Thanks for that Bluez that has a more truthfull feel. There have been a few braggarts on this thread.
It's been said thought that at some point you have to take youself off the tools (i wish), so with a staff of five if you spent all the time organising etc would only match your solo income, and might also take you over the vat limit.
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Mr. S You would match a solo turnover. It also opens up the world of the big commercial work which is very profitable but you do need the numbers of staff for it. After a bit you also develop ways of cutting costs and raising productivity and economies of scale.
There comes a point when you stop breaking it down into specifics for each employee and you just look at % profit same as any other business. Mc Donalds would be happy with 25% of turnover as profit. I have had months where 35% is possible but I have nt as yet managed to achieve it consistantly. Thats the plan for 2008. By the way I haven't been on tools for a good while so that bit is true.
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Mr solubilty your absolutley right with what you say about the tax issue,if you matched your income with having staff therefore come off the tools you would be earning way over the VAT limit,unless your prices were to go up 17.5% your 25% profit would become 7.5%.Yes you wouldn`t be working but it would still be a headache organising the work and covering holidays and sick days,don`t forget the day to day running costs of the business ie vans equipment etc.Without it being properly thought through you could end up losing money from the start,when employing you must have money in the bank.