Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner on December 26, 2007, 03:46:52 pm
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This subject has been discussed before and just wonder what members think to this idea? Go to www.friendsof water.com/Water Catch.html . This product is US based
And as the site say`s, it has`nt even been produced yet thru` lack of interest.This winter I`m hoping to try and get something going and in position that will replace my
RO unit permanently.I`ve looked and searched around but can`t find a suitable alternative to whats above.Can anyone suggest anything that’s the equivalent to what
Is above.? I used rainwater for a few weeks about 8 or 9 months ago and honestly,I find it superior in general to anything that goes thru` an RO unit.This applies especially on phobic glass.All replies and comments much appreciated.
P.S. I caught the water from workshop and garden shed roof,anything up to 500 liters
Per day on really rainy days,but started having problems for one reason or another with my tds readings starting to climb.Originally I could get it as low as 2ppm but ended up at 17 ppm.
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This subject has been discussed before and just wonder what members think to this idea? Go to www.friendsof water.com/Water Catch.html . This product is US based
And as the site say`s, it has`nt even been produced yet thru` lack of interest.This winter I`m hoping to try and get something going and in position that will replace my
RO unit permanently.I`ve looked and searched around but can`t find a suitable alternative to whats above.Can anyone suggest anything that’s the equivalent to what
Is above.? I used rainwater for a few weeks about 8 or 9 months ago and honestly,I find it superior in general to anything that goes thru` an RO unit.This applies especially on phobic glass.All replies and comments much appreciated.
P.S. I caught the water from workshop and garden shed roof,anything up to 500 liters
Per day on really rainy days,but started having problems for one reason or another with my tds readings starting to climb.Originally I could get it as low as 2ppm but ended up at 17 ppm.
What was the tds of the rain water once in your tank before resin ect ?
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I used to not use resin,plain untreated rainwater.I used to filter it thru`
Aquarium wool recommended by Jeff Brimble.If the rainwater is
Completely untreated it works much better I found.
Lewis Doubtfire
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I used to not use resin,plain untreated rainwater.I used to filter it thru`
Aquarium wool recommended by Jeff Brimble.If the rainwater is
Completely untreated it works much better I found.
Lewis Doubtfire
thats just given me an idea, will get some filters from my dad's shop and wool ;)
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why bother to harvest rain water for what you would save & store is it worth it . rain water can messure 002 tds reading but unless you got loads of water butts i wouldnt consider this option .
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why bother to harvest rain water for what you would save & store is it worth it . rain water can messure 002 tds reading but unless you got loads of water butts i wouldnt consider this option .
its more to do with the eco side of it from what i gather from the people who do it
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matt i no its more to do with eco side . im thinking more amout side . l doubtfire as caught up to 500ltrs a day but how many days as this happend . can it keep you working for a year doubt it . so will it be worth it in the long run ? some how i cant see this .
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Hi Dave,during a period of drought,or perhaps up to a month without rain,
Possibly what you state might apply.I`m `small fry`,and use very little water
Compared to some of you fella`s.It`s a sophisticated and `mobile` arrangement
For catching rain that my post was about.Not wether it is a viable project or not.
A few of us including Jeff Brimble has got into this way before,I just need to get
Myself going again,but improving what I already have in position.
Lewis Doubtfire
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Hi Lewis, without going into the debate about whether you can get enough rain or not. A std. std house roof will collect enough but the tds may vary from 0.6 -25tds so my thoughts are for those that want to including anyone with a high tds, they should use that roo fand possibly a neighbours.But you have to consider what to do with all the water you dont need (gallons and Gallons of it) After basic sponge filtration into a large butt or two or an IBC, then through either a basic gravity fed DI filtration that could be home made or simple DI cannisters. Or Through an existing RO system with an added pressure pump.
Whatever you collect is free and "green" - just look at it as an added system until you get going, I havent swithed on my RO since August.
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Any chance of a picture Jeff or anyone else using a similar set up?
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i cant remember the web address but the americans have got a piece of technology that can pull moisture out of the air to service army personell serving in iraq.
The technology is patented but this is the sort of thing we need to go mainstream as we would no longer need filters and we could swicth the thing on as we needed it without any effect to the water suply.
lets face if they can get water from desert air they would have no problems in our climate. ;D
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Regarding that web site in my original post.This is possibly `Heath Robinson`,,,but,,
Do a search under golf umbrellas and also Parasols.There`s loads to go at! It`s true
What Jeff says,ya get loads.Off my own garden shed roof that’s 8 foot x 6 foot.A
200 liter water butt soon fills,it`s amazing.A parasol or umbrella directed into an
Individual container,at short notice,done relitavley quickly after half an hour or so.
Certain parts of the country your ppm would be 3 zero`s.3 ppm at the most and would
Stay constant at that,because of no contamination.Do a `search`,what do members think? Replies appreciated.
Lewis Doubtfire
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Bluez, one/2 tanks/ butts on blocks. Then use a rain diveter from B&Q to send water into it via some basic aquarium sponge fiters. The top pipe on the gutter is to stop the water going through the tank by simply lifting it higher than the inlet with a couple of clothes pegs, the back pipe is just pushed on when I want to make water.
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/JeffBrimble/2007_1130ultralite0092.jpg)
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/JeffBrimble/2007_1130ultralite0094.jpg)
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Ionic next Reach & Wash system (maybe)
http://www.aquamagic.us/generators.htm
Andy
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you could plumb all your house gutters into one and have 3 or 4 ibc's in the garden, and collect from your roof - then use gravity to prefilter the water before going into the ibcs. You could have atleast 2 ibcs 1 ontop of the other, the top one collects the rain water, then you connect the tap up to a di system, that uses gravity to DI the water before it runs down into the bottom ibc, so you wouldnt need a pump.
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Yep ! watch it or you will catch the rain virus :)
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For those that cannot harvest rain I have just found out that Absolut vodka has tha same tds of 000.4.. :P hic so you dont need fancy calibration fluid just use good Vodka ! Gins close as well 000.9tds
Tequila Sunrise anyone ?
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Some toothpastes have the ppm on the tubes so you can use that for calibration fluid, Luke
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For those that cannot harvest rain I have just found out that Absolut vodka has tha same tds of 000.4.. :P hic so you dont need fancy calibration fluid just use good Vodka ! Gins close as well 000.9tds
Tequila Sunrise anyone ?
Carling is 856 tds so dont use that
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Lewis, you said you are 'small fry'. I hope you don't mind me asking, but I just wondered how much wfp work you did?
I am small fry too, but trad only at the moment. I was looking at some of your ideas to get a basic wfp set up.
Thanks,
Ian
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Lewis, you said you are 'small fry'. I hope you don't mind me asking, but I just wondered how much wfp work you did?
I am small fry too, but trad only at the moment. I was looking at some of your ideas to get a basic wfp set up.
Thanks,
Ian
Ian, go for a pro set up wfp, you will earn more than you do trad I had been trad for years I love wfp and is now coming into its own
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Hi Ian,what your asking is `off the topic` really.What I`ll do is e,mail
You privately with my own opinions and help.Thanks for your enquirey.
Lewis Doubtfire Gleem Clean ( The Blade Runner )
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Sorry Lewis, did go off topic a bit. To bring it back on topic, I have about 350 litres capacity from rain butts. Just wondering if this would be enough to have a go at wfp, but without the expense of going RO, DI, etc straight away? I just want to trial it really, before deciding what to do.
Ian, I probably will go wfp in the future. Some of my round isn't suitable for wfp, but the majority probably is. I just wanted to give it a whirl really before splashing out on a pro set up.
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Maybe, Buy or borrow a tds meter or get the water tds tested. If its ok. Get a std pump up or small agri sprayer, or fence paint one and experiment with brushing it on and rinsing off, ground level.
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Sorry Lewis, did go off topic a bit. To bring it back on topic, I have about 350 litres capacity from rain butts. Just wondering if this would be enough to have a go at wfp, but without the expense of going RO, DI, etc straight away? I just want to trial it really, before deciding what to do.
Ian, I probably will go wfp in the future. Some of my round isn't suitable for wfp, but the majority probably is. I just wanted to give it a whirl really before splashing out on a pro set up.
350l would last over a day going at it full on, if you want to play with it that is more than enough, one thing I would say is if you get spots ect it could well be the rain water, test on your house, I was sceptical about the whole thing, I now have a new system wfp and turned my back on trad as wfp after a little time is alot quicker alot safer and you can clean frames aswell with less time that doing glass only with trad.
where in the UK are you, if you are near me you are welcome to come out with me for a morning and have a go.
Ian
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Thanks Jeff. I will give that a whirl I think.
Ian, I am on the south coast (Portsmouth), so it might be a bit of a trek for me. But thanks for the offer.
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Ian, its how started. Actually you can make as simple as just using a bucket of water. But once you start experimenting you wont stop. A backpack and pole will allow you to reach the dangerous ones you cannot reach trad and it just sort of develops from there.
If your near the coast the tds might be up so you would have to DI - I have my unused RO for backup.
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Thanks for that Jeff, looks good.
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Rains fine -dont even think bout trying that Vodka trick :P :P :'( (ouch)
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As someone who used to work for the Water Board (as it was then) when I first left school. I would like to point out that technically its illegal to collect rainwater. All rain that falls in a particular area "belongs" to the water authority for that area.
Even a garden rain butt breaks the rules. I have never heard of anyone being done for it and can't imagine they ever would.
However, with the introduction of water metering several schemes have been suggested for collecting rainwater to use for flushing the toilet. These have been kicked into touch by the water authorities by saying they would have to be licenced.
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Vince,well how about that! Collecting rainwater illegal! It dos`nt surprise me,
Ya can`t breath the air to live without being out or order! Ian,what Jeff says is
`near the mark`. Backpack perhaps,and everything goes from there.I could`nt
Mail ya anyway,no mail address.If ya do gets spots when using rainwater,it
Will be because the water youv`e collected will be say above 15ppm.Jeff `B`
Is the rainwater `guru`.Jeff,would ya say anything under 15 ppm is oaky or is
That too high?
Lewis Doubtfire Gleem Clean ( The Blade Runner )
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As someone who used to work for the Water Board (as it was then) when I first left school. I would like to point out that technically its illegal to collect rainwater. All rain that falls in a particular area "belongs" to the water authority for that area.
Even a garden rain butt breaks the rules. I have never heard of anyone being done for it and can't imagine they ever would.
However, with the introduction of water metering several schemes have been suggested for collecting rainwater to use for flushing the toilet. These have been kicked into touch by the water authorities by saying they would have to be licenced.
I have just checked with our Water Authority about the legality of collecting rainwater. According to South West Water not only is it not illegal, but they are encouraging all of their customers to start using rainwater wherever possible and will sell you equipment to do so.
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The water in my area is a high tds. I definitely couldn't experiment with tap water without getting RO and DI equipment. Rain water sounds like a reasonable way of experimenting.
I seem to remember hearing that rain water technically belongs to the water companies before. I can't imagine anyone having legal problems though. As Alex posted, most of them seem to encourage the use of rain water.
Lewis - You should be able to see my e-mail address now. Thanks!
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Getting back on `topic` so to speak.I think I`ll forget the parasol/umbrella idea and
Put the collected rainwater that’s already in my garden butts thru` a DI canister.Jeff,
Members,what parts would be needed to connect the canisters? I`m definatley going
The gravity fed `route`.Oh Jeff,while I`m online,like ya`ve done with the fishing pole
Weight comparisons etc. etc .etc. would you be good enough to outline the parts in
Detail what youv`e used in your set up.So far the only thing I`ve had to use since my
Tds started to climb rapidly,which was when I stopped collecting and went back to my RO for water was some aquarium wool from my local aquarium shop.This was just to catch all the flies,midges etc.
Lewis Doubtfire Gleem Clean ( The Blade Runner )
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Left a bucket out overnight just for the hell of it ................... 9ppm what the hell have I been buying ro's for.
My back garden is going to be full of pots and pans from now on ;D ;D
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No guru lewis, I just asked others like Justin Ruggles on other forums
Yes its not written down will try to do a topic. try using Algarde blue aquarium filter sponge stuffed in a pipe before before the wool. I now no longer use the wool.
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Hi Jeff,whats the advantage of blue aquarium filter wool instead of the other?
This last hour or so I`ve been `messing` around over at B @ Q and my workshop
Getting ready for an `attack`.A reading of `butt` water I`ve had for weeks that looks
Visibily as drinkable has a reading of 12ppm.
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looking at meteox you should be getting some good rain about now, just measure the current tds.
Not blue wool- blue sponge its firmer and easier to cut. Comes in rectangular 2x2x8 inch.
As its quiet - http://www.tropicalfishforums.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=196
Heres a pic of what your looking for, also comes in fine grade. I got a bag full of unbranded for 7 quid. You reuse it by rinsing. So you dont need much. Just Stuff it up a removeable section of pipe. Clean every 500L or so http://www.warehouse-aquatics.co.uk/juwel-jumbo-filter-sponge-coarse-533-p.asp0L
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Bluez you get to be picky after a bit I only collect when the rains coming down at less than 1 tds My tap water is 70
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70 would be nice mine is close to 300 and the pressure is pants as well.
Great info
thanks
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Hi Jeff, you usually wait half an hour so after it starts raining before ya start
To collect right? So you wait then till your reading shows 1 ppm and your away?
I`ve been collecting all afternoon and my reading is 10ppm.Everything clean
Before I started.Last summer when I did`nt take half as much care,my reading
Would be 2ppm.Then the flies and midges,muck in the air would take over and
After a couple of days it would be up to around 15ppm.Any hints or tips as to what
I might be doing wrong.? I`m just a bit disappointed really.I know I live in the
Industrial north but nevertheless,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Lewis Doubtfire
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Yes very dissapointing for you.
Is your tds meter accuarate compare with vodka Whats the Calibration- maybe 10 is 1 ?Did it register zero with RO/DI Whats your roofing materials ? Clean ?
Anyone else achieving less than 1 tds ? or is it just me ?
The other thing that we need to think about is can rain tds be higher than zero and still work ?
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Hi Jeff,just done a test with my tap water that’s gone thru` my RO…. 000ppm
So it`s not my meter.Don`t know about Vodka,I ain`t got any.My shed roof is
What looks to be same as yours,mineral felt with smallish `blobs` of bitchumin
In the guttering.
Lewis Doubtfire
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If your refering to the gutter pic, the mineralised felts just on the edges, the rest is just plain flat felt with an alu paint coating.
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Williamson Pumps sell a Rainwater Harvesting Kit which may be of interest. Have a look on their New online Shop at www.williamson-shop.co.uk
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Martin maybe you could eloborate on what it is that it does ?????
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Hello Jeff
We have a nice little pdf on this subject but i dont know if i can upload to the forum so i have emailed it to you.
Cheers
Martin
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i get 000tds every time straight from the sky, ;D
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Martin,
Got the pdf.
But for the others that might also be interested, What does it do or allow ?. It looks like a pic of a turbine pump and a seperate pressure switch, could it also be used as a pump before the RO/DI in most systems. If so, when the rainwater butt runs dry is it just a case of refiling it with tap water ? Here is the small piece of the text Martin supplied.
Many window cleaning companies now use water fed pole technology.
These systems require ultra clean water which is achieved using specialist filter equipment.
The RO Filtration process unfortunately means using more water than is required to fill a storage tank due to
brine water run off and if on a meter this can substantially add to all the running of a company
With purity of around 4 parts per million, rainwater is ideal for pole based window technology.
Using rainwater which has been collected, filtered for leaves/moss etc and has stood for a day or two can
provide a good source of water for the RO System
As the water collected can have a low TDS , the RO system filters have to work less hard and thus have a
longer life.
HOSEPIPE BANS
It is not long ago that such bans only occurred in the hottest, driest months of the year but
now it can happen almost anytime of the year for may people watering cans can be a heavy
time consuming business.
"
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Joe,if your catching the rain at 000ppm what is your interest with resin
At all ?
Lewis Doubtfire
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Another consideration-
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=47912.0