Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: John Gregory on December 20, 2007, 08:01:55 pm

Title: Nightmare help please
Post by: John Gregory on December 20, 2007, 08:01:55 pm
Last job of the day today HSL 100% wool berber carpet , doing the pre vac caught a yarn of wool at the bathroom door that the customer had re tile ed , no plate re fitted its made a hole of about a inch square she is demanding I replace the carpet . I've offered to get a carpet fitter to kick it up and fit a plate , but she is not having it, Where do I stand .

Thanks John
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Chris34 on December 20, 2007, 08:13:53 pm
If it can be repaired then surely she would have to accept that.  If you was to scratch someone's car you wouldn't be expected to buy them a new car would you? so surely if it can be repaired then either she accepts your offer or she can try and take you to court which I would expect then she would be told it's not worth her while.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Ian Rochester on December 20, 2007, 08:59:14 pm
It's not a nightmare, it's an accident that you've caused and need to address.

Contact your insurers, I'm assuming you are insured, and they will assess it and deal with it.  Take photos of it as it is now and tell her it's going through your insurance.

That's what we have insurance for.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Neil Williams on December 20, 2007, 09:10:08 pm
Well it sounds like she will be equally to blame because the edging hadn't been finished/protected properly after the tiling job. If in your view anyone with a vacuum cleaner could have had this happen to them then you are just being made the fall guy, for something that was going to happen anyway at some point in the future.
Negotiate with the customer for a repair to be done. If she refuses then tell her to take you to court.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on December 20, 2007, 09:44:19 pm
As a professional you are supposed to notice these things so you may be to blame but if a repair can be done then legally you are in your right to do this providing that the repair returns the carpet to like it was before.

Be brave and get a GOOD professional fitter who has a bit of time to do it in January and hopefully you can shake hands and go on your way.

Shaun
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Les on December 21, 2007, 06:03:48 pm
A couple of years ago I had a similar situation where I 'Accidentaly' caught a wall whilst carrying my gear upstairs.
It was an old cottage and the plaster was very fragile. It made a mark about the size of a 50p piece.

I did an immediate repair, knocked money off the bill and cleaned an extra room for free  :o

The lady was at work but her 20 something year old son said it would be fine as they had some paint in the right colour.

2 days later I discover an email from the lady.. >:( demanding I pay to have the entire Hall Stairs & landing redecorated or she would take legal action. Nice Lady I thought  :P

I rang my Public Liability Insurers who were brillant. They said I should have no further contact with her as they would deal with the whole thing for me.. :D
As for decorating the whole area, they said she could p*#s off as they wouldn't have paid for it if it was her own insurance so no way would they be doing so on mine.  :o

The funny thing was that about a week later she emailed me again to thank me for my prompt attention.  ;)

I've been waiting patiently for her to call me again to do some more work. I want the pleasure of telling her to S#d off !!

She's the only one like that I've had in nearly 8 years so I just put it down to experience....and keep up the payments on my Liabilty Insurance  :)
Les
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Dave_Lee on December 21, 2007, 06:16:04 pm
John,
Sorry to hear of your problem. Insurance wise, you are probably responsible for the first £500 (Excess) However if was to be deemed you were at fault, you are only required in law to rectify the events back to how it was before the incident occured. In other words, NOT a new carpet - only the value of what it was worth immediatly before the incident occured, i. e. probably not very much. If she persists, think about making her an offer - a fitted door plate, or £50, take it or leave it. You could discuss your offer with the local trading standards to see if its reasonable enough.
Best of luck.
Dave.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: *paul_moss on December 31, 2007, 06:36:12 pm
John how did you get on in the end ?
and is Dave sorting you out for next year?
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: John Gregory on January 07, 2008, 11:05:05 pm
Hi all , I know Im dragging a post up  from a couple of weeks ago but it still has not been resolved , after taking advice off you chaps I got a carpet fitter to call and fit a plate over the hole I had allegedly made, customer still not happy. Customer has had quote to replace carpet £200 , not a problem I said , theres £120 towards it ( the job was worth £80) which I gave her back straight away, This women is a witch she is now talking about compensation for the inconvenience

John
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: John Gregory on January 07, 2008, 11:07:59 pm
ps forgot to mention she refused to take money off me , she is now saying she is going to take legal advice

John
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: BDCS on January 07, 2008, 11:18:58 pm
Hello, talk to trading standards - They'll advise you. I had a similar issue but not on a carpet but they told me to refund the money by cheque (recorded) and document the reson for the refund in a letter sent by registered post. When you state that you have spoken to trading standards the customers usually back off. Trading standards are there to protect us as well as the customers interests
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: richie on January 08, 2008, 07:24:15 am
Hi John,
I had a simlar thing a few years ago.  I spoke to my insurance company for advice.  They informed me that as long as the carpet could be repaired or a door plate fitted so that the pull was not in view and that the door plate did not look out of place the customer had to accept the job as a satisfacrtory repair and that it was it was prior to pre damage and or better.  Try calling your insurer just for advice rather than getting them directly involved straight away.

Richie.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: murky on January 08, 2008, 01:06:50 pm
John,

Where abouts are you, you dont say on your details..I did a retuft for a carpet fitter the other day, he caught the edge of the carpet whilst drilling to fit a door bar and pulled about 6" of carpet in.

Customer said it happens and was more than happy to let me repair it.

Murky

Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Joe H on January 08, 2008, 01:23:49 pm
and whereabouts are you Murky, you dont say in your details.
Might need someone with those skills one day - would be nice to know who to contact within distance.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: *paul_moss on January 08, 2008, 02:04:21 pm
Joe, you can call me now  ;)
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Joe H on January 08, 2008, 02:31:18 pm
Yes, I had made a mental note (and the wife says I am very mental!)
Sounds like you all had a good time Paul.

My previous post was trying to get others tell us where they are.
Do they have somehing to hide or what, in not putting detail up.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: JS2 on January 10, 2008, 09:33:23 pm
Hi all , I know Im dragging a post up from a couple of weeks ago but it still has not been resolved , after taking advice off you chaps I got a carpet fitter to call and fit a plate over the hole I had allegedly made, customer still not happy. Customer has had quote to replace carpet £200 , not a problem I said , theres £120 towards it ( the job was worth £80) which I gave her back straight away, This women is a witch she is now talking about compensation for the inconvenience

John

Hi John

Hope it's all solved by now, but regarding the last sentance, I'm of the opinion that one can only sue for compensation if one can demonstrate an quantified financial loss has, or will, occur as a result of some negligent action.  Did your customer have to cancel a profit-making event because of the carpet damage, or was she injured in some other way leading to a financial loss ?  I rather expect not !  I reckon this is a hollow threat due to frustration.  My opinions only though.

Regards

Pete (JS2)
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: John Gregory on January 10, 2008, 09:42:59 pm
The problem is now rectified I replaced the complete carpet for the witch yesterday , last night was the first night I slept since it happened it completely recked my Christmas , another lesson learned do a proper survey and never work for someone with a pylon in the back garden


John
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: David_Annable on January 10, 2008, 09:50:08 pm
Hi

I think you have just been unlucky, most of my custurds are good as gold.

Dave
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Phillip Mold on January 10, 2008, 09:56:01 pm
I agree  in that most of my curties are good as gold, but I am convinced I will meet a village idiot every year!
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: John Gregory on January 10, 2008, 10:00:51 pm
Thanks Dave

This women was as mad as a hatter , last night when i went round to give her money she told me that her husband was in bed with scarlet fever , she is proper looney toons for the sake of a couple of hundred quid its not worth the myth er , I'm more annoyed at myself for letting it  reck my chrimbo and my family's

John
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Doctor Carpet (Ret'd) on January 10, 2008, 10:18:18 pm
John

I know what you feel like, and the sense of relief when you can move on from these situations is wonderful.

If we met people like this all the time we would become inured to them. It's only because they are so few and far between we forget what they are like and are always taken by surprise when we again meet one of them.

Here's to a good 2008.

Roger
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: David_Annable on January 10, 2008, 10:21:15 pm
Hi

LOL

I've been to bed with Scarlet Fever, the wife wasn't to pleased when she found out.

Dave
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: John Gregory on January 10, 2008, 10:34:01 pm
Dave that was a really crap Joke . go to bed

John
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: richie on January 10, 2008, 11:27:38 pm
John,  Did you just give her the money to get it replaced or did you get the carpet?  I would not have give her the money, i would have firstly fitted a door bar n said there you go sorted.  If that wasnt possible coz the bar wouldnt have covered the area i would have paid for the carpet and not given the witch the money directly.

Richie.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: PaulKing on January 11, 2008, 09:10:04 am
I'm more annoyed at myself for letting it  reck my chrimbo and my family's

John

just moved absolutely everything away from my home and i really does make it easier, we had the nightmare lady  send a register next day delivery letter that was written on the 11th of dec but timed to arrive christmas eve, for maximum effect. Normally something like that would wreck my christmas or at least upset me for a day or two.

 I got it at 11.30 read it, put i on my desk and said it think about in the new year. And went to the pub with everyone else. Just replied to it this week.

pete did like you insight about a "qualified financial loss being proven" a very good point did you get it from a source somewhere as sound very professional.

Usually they make you come out after hours when they are finished work and then want compensation of their time, might well use that if i need to shut someone up. Another point is to let them know you will only reimburse on a imdemity basis i.e "like for like".
 Know how you feel they just like to twist the knife sometimes,



Paul was this the mother of a famous person job/
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Joe H on January 11, 2008, 09:33:41 am
I definately have sympathy with you John, as I had a problem late November (which i posted on here and got lots of encouragement) when 3 spots appeared after the clean.
My "problem" has gone quite, but not gone away I dont think.
It does affect your life, its always on your mind, and in your case it seems you have a particulary difficult client.
At least now you can forget it - done and over.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: JS2 on January 11, 2008, 07:24:36 pm
Dear Paul and John

The point I made about a quantifiable financial loss is how I understand the system of compensation for damage actually works.  In other words, a fair civil complaint is met with a fair and reasonable response.  As another forum member put it, if you accidentally scratch somebody's car then you are only liable to return it to the condition it was in before your action occurred (and I'm far from convinced that John even did anything seriously wrong at all, since the fault was waiting to happen because of the inferior state of things before he arrived).  However if during the time the car is being repaired the owner has to use alternative transport that costs more than the expense he/she would have otherwise incurred, then they can fairly make an extra claim for the surplus amount.  Any frivolous claim for inconvenience has on its own no financial value attached.  OK, if the house couldn't be used to host an important event because of the carpet damage then a financial loss might have occurred - but with all common sence this won't have happened in this case and the intelligence of the legal adjudicators would surely arrive at this conclusion (don't forget, in a County Court case we' re delegating the matter to very educated people).

However, please accept that these are my views and I may be incorrect.  I'd hate to be wrongly labelled some sort of 'forum Lawyer'.  Anyhow I expect that claims are dealt with on a case by case basis.

Perhaps this is a good opportunity for others to comment on the issue for the benefit of all colleagues since threats by customers, for whom forum members work so hard, are incredibly upsetting.

Regards

Pete (JS2)

Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: *paul_moss on January 11, 2008, 07:28:51 pm
Js2, I take your view and I would have stood my ground in terms of repair/make good.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: turneylogan on January 12, 2008, 08:58:34 am
I know it would never happen but I'd love to create a register on here of all customers of whom carpet cleaners and domestic cleaners (and any other categories) should be wary - i.e. non-payers and nutters.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: murky on January 12, 2008, 09:35:34 am
Betterclean,

You have email.

Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Joe H on January 12, 2008, 09:54:07 am
I know it would never happen but I'd love to create a register on here of all customers of whom carpet cleaners and domestic cleaners (and any other categories) should be wary - i.e. non-payers and nutters.

The list would be too long.
and of course there is the Data Protection Act
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: *paul_moss on January 12, 2008, 09:59:25 am
Joe is yours still ongoing ? or have you now delt with it.
Title: Re: Nightmare help please
Post by: Joe H on January 12, 2008, 10:43:51 am
Paul
She gave me one last chance to order the new carpet for her, then she said she was going to hand it over to her legal team (I think her home insurance said they would take up the challange).
Her date expired Dec 24th.
So far heared nothing but I am sure I will.
If she is still going to be involved maybe she is delaying cause her baby is due about 20th if I remember correctly.
Like John Gregory, it is always in your mind. Every time the postman comes you wonder if there will be a solicitors letter.
When, if, anything comes I will be consulting a solicitor for advice.

I took one of my domestic cleaners to small claims 2 years ago (took 16 months to get her to court).
She had fiddled her time on a regular basis ie daily, in a office clean where you gain accesss thro a electronic tag - so all times were recorded.
As it was so clear to see I handled my own case, but she got free representation from some council tax funded legal advice, and she won.
So I paid for her defence (via council tax)!!

That was a spread over 16 months and part way thro I got anonymous mail accusing me of being something rather nasty.
Went straight to the police with it.  Upshot was, they thought it would be her but as it was only 1 letter they would not do anything with it, not even give her a visit. They suggested I contacted her, tell her I had taken a piece of unwanted mail to the police, who are taking it seriously, and if any more came then action would be taken.
No more came, but I am sure you can imagine the mental torture you go thro. Not just on the accusation, but then "waiting" for the next one to arrive. Or worse still, the letter threatened to pass it (the lie) thro the neigbourhood.
No more did come, but when the court case came I had said to myself "win or lose - it will be finished" (as long as she did'nt start again).

Not a happy time in my life.
but then I thought - I only lost a few hundred quid pay thro a faulty justice system.... some have lost their freedom for things they have never done........ and others have gone free for serious crimes they have done.