Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: d s windowcleaning on December 18, 2007, 09:25:24 pm
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really simple way to warm your water while on the move . buy a car invetor for around £40 from maplins buy a tea urn and remove the element drill a hole through your tank lid and fit the element . fill your tank back up and plug in to invetor . takes around 45 minutes to warm 300 ltrs of water . seen this working today and was impreesed .
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mmmmmmmmmm
Good idea but dont know what to make of it????
How warm is warm?
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warm enough to wash greasy pots and pans .
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or a cup of tea ;D
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Your tds meter usually has a temp setting on it, why dont you give it a reading, or is it on a friends system? Luke
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Most of my work is within 10-30mins of my home so this wouldnt work for me, Luke
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You can buy these elements to heat static water,they go through the lid of the tank to about half way down.About £250 + vat i`ll try and scroll through my favorites to find it.
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http://www.andwat.co.uk/acatalog/WATER_HEATERS.html
(http://www.andwat.co.uk/acatalog/Immersion.jpg)
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That`s the one Luke,blimey you must be looking at my list of favorites,i think the firm is in liverpool.
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They suck a lot of leccy. Need a SERIOUS inverter.
Also, if you spill water on your inverter or any of the 240V electrics....
....BOOM!
Interesting idea though.
I am thinking that your engine in the van will be working overtime to power the inverter ???
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I've met Andrew, hes a nice guy. They come from Southport, Luke
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its not my system luke its one i seen being used at sheffield today . the lad who was using it says around 45 minutes to get the water up to a nice temp but thats for 300 ltrs of water . so if you have a bigger tank then it will require extra time . but i must say with all the post of freezing its a real good cheap soulotion and one that i myself will be doing .
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Its not the tank water that freezes though, its the water in the pipes and hoses. only a heater in your van can cure that! Luke
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invertor is not near water tank and its only used from him setting off and getting to his first job which is around 45 minutes .
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when you put the warm water through your hose it will clear it . and as the tank warms this will the create heat in you van witch will allso help . simple but effective .
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I see Dave, Luke
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A heater in the van will not solve your problems,you need hot hoses and to get that and have control over the temp of the water,a retro hot water system or one that`s fitted as standard is what you need.
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most of these erns are 1500-3000kwatts that is some invertor
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,you need hot hoses and to get that and have control over the temp of the water,a retro hot water system or one that`s fitted as standard
I agree, when I go hot I'm going to get a retro heater and replace my microbore with hot stuff, luke
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You can use minibore hose,it`s the system hoses you might need to change.
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You mean the tricoflex between tank-pump-di-reels ? Luke
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Normal tricoflex or hot hose is recommended for system hoseing.
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So, I'll be fine then? Luke
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Alex is getting a supplier to make up some "Thermobore" for hot wfp systems. It will be 8mm ID, and rated to 90 deg C,.. and I'm sure he mentioned early on a reflective insulating layer in the hose to minimise heat loss before it gets to the brush head, hopefully this feature made its way into the finished product?
I'm sure Alex will give us more info when its ready for sale tho.
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Nathanael, how is your hot system going? Luke
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Nathanael, how is your hot system going? Luke
Luke, what did you mean with Retro heater? :)
Thanks.
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Retro fitted! Luke
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Luke the retro systems ie omnipole,do take up a fair bit of room in a small van.
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I'm not going to go with something like that, I've got other plans. Luke
ps. what type of WATER FED POLE system do you have NWH?
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I'm not going to go with something like that, I've got other plans. Luke
ps. what type of system do you have NWH?
Man, we really need a list of solutions in one post, from buy it off the shelf to DIY, it's kinda difficult to roam the forums looking for info on water heaters. :-\
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heard somewhere that a shureflow pump can only take water upto 45 degrees . dont know if this is true? Half way through having a go at a diy hot water system using a 12v immesion heater
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You have limited options,your better off getting it done by the pro`s,DIY it at your own risk.
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Most pumps will go between 80-90 degrees.
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http://www.andwat.co.uk/acatalog/WATER_HEATERS.html
(http://www.andwat.co.uk/acatalog/Immersion.jpg)
The heater element shown in the pic is a 3Kw with an inca alloy sheath which is suitable for de-ionised water. However the length of it means it would have to go in in a minimum of 175 litre upright tank and it would have to be plugged into the mains 240v a/c. To run it using a 3000watt inverter would cost a minimum £500 off of ebay plus a minimum of 5 large amperage batteries banked together just to keep it running if used in transit.
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That`s what i was saying,get it done properly turn it on hot water thank you very much,i don`t think it`s DIY people like i think it`s hassle.
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It's a very good heater element and will do the job BUT it does drink the electric because it is a 3Kw immersion heater. It's primary use is for pickling in large tanks.
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why bother,cold pure water works just fine.
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The heater pictured is actually quite a good idea if used to heat the water overnight. If you plug it into the mains overnight and work out how long it takes to get the tank up to the required temperature then put it on a simple timer to come on say 2 hours before you have to go to work. It will also have the advantage of pre-warming the inside of your vehicle slightly before work thereby de-frosting pipes etc inside the vehicle.
If you complement this with an instant 'as-you-go' gas heater you have a complete solution for about £400.
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If the immersion heater can heat up the water in an hour or so, then use the electricity from home berfore driving to work. Then to make sure the water in your hoses is also warm, make a connection thru the top pf the water tank and connect your microbore hose to it, then turn on the pump at low pressure/flow rate that way your water will circulate and get the hoses and hose water hot as well.
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If you heat up the water at home, how long will it stay warm during the day?
Alex, any links for the 'instant 'as-you-go' gas heater'? Thanks :)
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Nathanael, how is your hot system going? Luke
Still in the planning stages Luke. I've heard of a couple of people having problems with the cheapo gas powered water heaters, and I wasn't keen on having a gas cylinder in the van anyway,.. so that idea was scrapped.
I've seen a system that uses a twin coil calorifier, with one coil taking heat from the vehicle engine (free eco friendly heat!) and the second coil powered by an erberspacher/webasto type diesel heater. If you do much driving between jobs at all, the diesel heater hardly kicks in at all. The only problem is, I need a bigger van to fit it all in!!
You have your standard cold WFP tank, plus a 80 litre calorifier, and you simply connect the pump before the calorifier with a Y splitter,.. one branch goes through the hot tank and the second goes to the could input on the mixing valve. The hot output from the tank goes to the hot input on the valve. You need a good quality thermostatic mixing valve, not one of the cheap shower mixer types though.
I think this will be the way forward for me though.
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what ever you do, Do Not Leave Your Pump On when trying to un-freeze the frozen pipes if everything is solid, it will burn out your pump.
Mine did last week :'( :'(
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What noise did it make before it went.
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What noise did it make before it went.
something like eeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr er er errrrrrrrr er e r .....
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a simple soulotion that works . no more lost days . all thats needed is 1 car invertor 1 elemement 1 spanner . simple but true . trry remove a element from the kettle and see how easy this is . stuff gas heating ;D
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a simple soulotion that works . no more lost days . all thats needed is 1 car invertor 1 elemement 1 spanner . simple but true . trry remove a element from the kettle and see how easy this is . stuff gas heating ;D
Kettle elements are normally between 4.5 and 7 KW,.. good luck finding an inverter that will handle that!!!
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the invertor from maplins works nathanael .
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a simple soulotion that works . no more lost days . all thats needed is 1 car invertor 1 elemement 1 spanner . simple but true . trry remove a element from the kettle and see how easy this is . stuff gas heating ;D
Kettle elements are normally between 4.5 and 7 KW,.. good luck finding an inverter that will handle that!!!
Nathanael - I think you'll find that most household kettle elements top out at 3kw/12 amps. Otherwise a 13 amp fuse would blow 13amp x 240 volts = 3120w
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BTW - my tank is cold water but lagged with space blanket/polystyrene/ply.
If I put a 3kw element in the tank and switched on by timer 2 hrs before I started work, then on the principle of an immersion heater would it not warm things up to let me work on frosty days?
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if you really mst have hot water
buy a hot water cylinder element ( 25 quid in wicks, i checked yesterday )
wire it up to a fused extension lead
leave on over night ( or as alex said, on a timer so its not boiling )
fit polystrene slabs around the tank, thicker the better ( then cover that in ply painted the same clour as your floor, i know people on here think that people care what the system looks like )
the water will stay warm for the best part of the day
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if you really mst have hot water
buy a hot water cylinder element ( 25 quid in wicks, i checked yesterday )
wire it up to a fused extension lead
leave on over night ( or as alex said, on a timer so its not boiling )
fit polystrene slabs around the tank, thicker the better ( then cover that in ply painted the same clour as your floor, i know people on here think that people care what the system looks like )
the water will stay warm for the best part of the day
Interesting, my tank is already lagged as you describe - but where to put the element? Dropped in the lid hole? Or cut a hole and seal it lower down by the outlet pipe as heat rises?
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if you really mst have hot water
buy a hot water cylinder element ( 25 quid in wicks, i checked yesterday )
wire it up to a fused extension lead
leave on over night ( or as alex said, on a timer so its not boiling )
fit polystrene slabs around the tank, thicker the better ( then cover that in ply painted the same clour as your floor, i know people on here think that people care what the system looks like )
the water will stay warm for the best part of the day
Interesting, my tank is already lagged as you describe - but where to put the element? Dropped in the lid hole? Or cut a hole and seal it lower down by the outlet pipe as heat rises?
well a hot water copper cylinder has it at the top, they have them in most households so it must work ;)
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i dont know where the hot water coil elements are in boilers at home , but the hottest water rises to the top, and is colder near the bottom, having the element in the top will not really warm the water in the bottom very well unless its a very good heater.
it would be better to have the element at the bottom, or mounted in from the side or bottom.
I think a system which uses the vehicles engine heat to heat up water along with a diesel powered unit, like the eberspacher /webasto ones that are 12v for the ignition and run off diesel is the best, efficient solution- if not going for a 'off the shelf' unit. Electric powered will just drain too much power too soon.
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i know that they enter from the top and point down,
you can get them on 11" and 27" normally ( sad but ive done the research )
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if you really mst have hot water
buy a hot water cylinder element ( 25 quid in wicks, i checked yesterday )
wire it up to a fused extension lead
leave on over night ( or as alex said, on a timer so its not boiling )
fit polystrene slabs around the tank, thicker the better ( then cover that in ply painted the same clour as your floor, i know people on here think that people care what the system looks like )
the water will stay warm for the best part of the day
I like that idea Matt,.. I'd be worried about using an inverter drawing that much power for extended periods of time,..
I was thinking of having 2 tanks in my new van,.. the wfp one and a pre-insulated copper cylinder. I'd have the cylinder as hot as possible before I left home and use a thermostatic mixing valve to mix the 2 feeds to the appropriate temp. My only worry would be if the water would pick up impurities from the copper?
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i know that they enter from the top and point down,
you can get them on 11" and 27" normally ( sad but ive done the research )
I'm glad you have cuz your input on this forum helps me no end! Thanks. :)
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what about using the cylinder coil to heat the water and then keep it warm with the kettle element working off the invertor?
Michael
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sad as it may seem (boing day ) but me & a mate tryed this today & it worked . this was tryed on 150 ltrs of water which got to 30 degrees in 45 mins im not saying it took 45 mins we checked after 45 mins . invertor was £39.99 from maplin /element was taken from a old t urn from a road side caff . so ive seen it & tryed it & no it works .
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sad as it may seem (boing day ) but me & a mate tryed this today & it worked . this was tryed on 150 ltrs of water which got to 30 degrees in 45 mins im not saying it took 45 mins we checked after 45 mins . invertor was £39.99 from maplin /element was taken from a old t urn from a road side caff . so ive seen it & tryed it & no it works .
Nice one!
Did you have the engine running, or will it work straight from the battery?
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Be sure to have a spare battery as a 1000 watt heating element will draw approx 80 amps of battery power in one hour through an inverter.
You will need at least an 85 amp battery to operate for an hour as batteries never fully reach their total capacity.
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nathanael engine was running at the time . as we drove from my mates to a area he works then back to his house to see what temps were like . on arrival at area he cleans temp had got to 14 degrees . on return it had got to 30 degrees . which over 45 minutes i dont think was bad result .the reason we worked on 45 minutes was that the first time i seen this in action in sheffild was the person i spoke to said it roughly took him 45 minutes to get to his jobs .