Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: derikraven on December 11, 2007, 08:31:04 am
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serious question here, whats the best way to approach cleaning a nubuck? suite. I've got one to do next week. Can it be wet cleaned?
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Firstly you need to be 100% sure that it is Nubuck. There are some very good fabric imitations around and people do think they have Nubuck when it isn't. Look and feel alone will not give you a definitve answer.
A Nubuck suite will have been very expensive. If you use a microscope to have a look at it you will be able to see either the structure of the leather fibres or the fabric threads.
If you follow this link you will see a complete guide to cleaning Nubuck.
http://www.lttsolutions.net/cleaning.asp#nubuck
but as I have said it is vital to check first as this process would ruin a fabric suite!!
Wet cleaning is often specified by other people but we would not recommend it at all. If you wet Nubuck all that happens is that the dirt is drawn deeper into the leather, the whole thing will go black and you will have no idea what it is going to look like until it has completely dried out (which takes forever). It can also draw old stains to the surface so it can look worse than when you started.
if you want any more advice don't hesitate to get in touch.
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As always, a good answer from the professionals who specialise in this area.
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Seriously, the best approach to clean a nubuck suite is to wet clean it!
Besides the effective removing of soils, spills, stains and other foreign contaminants,
the suite should return to its original nubuck characteristic when done by a serious leather cleaning professional.
And additional features should be highlighted to bring value to the customer:
1. Diminishing fatliquor to be replenished to return to the nubuck’s original tannery structure softness.
2. Diminishing Wax or Oil Pull-Up Effect to be replenished especially on body-contact, light and heat exposure surfaces.
3. Enhance a “finger writing effect” aesthetically to its fine nap.
4. Enhance a “silky feel” non-stick surface to its fine nap.
5. Enhance the unforgettable classic Leather scent that will make customer smile.
Using Leather safe (pH 3-5) wet cleaning system products is the preference both for the cleaners’ reputation
and for the sake of maintaining nubuck leather chemistry integrity seriously!
Products are available, email me for details.
Roger Koh
IICRC#942 LCT MTC MSR
info@leatherdoctor.org
Leather Doctor® System
Sharing with you a 21st century breakthrough in leather cleaning and restoration technology
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unless your 100% sure what your doing give it a miss :)
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Stay right away from wet if you value your insurance, 4 years ago I did a report on a suite worth 12k, ruined by a cleaner using 'safe products'.
It's not something to experiment on, using any product. I would do it the dry way, even Fenice only use a light foam/cloth procedure.
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Cleaning dry is undoubtably the safest way, but the results aren't that great, especially not compaed to wet cleaning.
I have been testing nubuck cleaning out quite extensivley the last few months and I have found it is best to brush the pile using a dry brush to remove any loose dirt. and then after that, if you feel necessary, wet clean the leather.
I cleaned two pairs of nubuck shoes last week, when doing the dry mothod it didn't make the slightest bit of difference. It wasn't until i wet cleaned them that you could actually see the cleaning results, which were superb!
A few tips. You don't need a nubuck cleaning brush or cloth. I found using a tampico brush and terry towel much better, and both of which are in most peoples tool kits. The only specialist products you would need are a protector and cleaner.
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Tampico brushes are far too soft for doing this type of work which is why you need a napping brush and a Nubuck Cloth is sticky so it does the work properly. If you do not use these products obviously the results will not be good because a tampico brush and a terry towel will give nothing like the results that proper equipment does.
Can someone explain how on a leather that is so absorbent and continually draws in moisture that wet cleaning can possibly draw out the dirt.?? ???
We have had huge success dry cleaning nubuck over the past 15 years. We have also seen many disasters where a wet cleaning system has been used using so called 'leather safe' products. Wet cleaning is massively risky and anyone using this method should double check their insurance to make sure they are covered for any problems that this will throw up. Many problems that you will encounter during wet cleaning will be unfixable once they have happened.
This is a subject that we have researched and worked on over the past 15+ years and the results speak for themself.
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Can someone explain how on a leather that is so absorbent and continually draws in moisture that wet cleaning can possibly draw out the dirt.?? ???
The dirt & stains are loosened by the cleaner and so come away from the fibres, then when you brush it it brushes the dirt out or too the surface, which you then wipe away with the cloth.
Just because something is absorbant doesn't mean it cannot be cleaned.
Tampico brushes are far too soft for doing this type of work which is why you need a napping brush and a Nubuck Cloth is sticky so it does the work properly. If you do not use these products obviously the results will not be good because a tampico brush and a terry towel will give nothing like the results that proper equipment does.
It is not obvious that they do not work as well, you have to test each method out and see what works best for you.
I also found that the nubuck brushes can remove a lot of the fibres from the nubuck making the pile less evident in that area - I belive this happens because you try so hard to remove dirt or stains with the brush that you start to remove the fibres. This also happened if you were too aggressive with the tampico brush. The advatage of wet cleaning is you do not need to be aggressive and so you do not get this problem.
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We cleaned our first Nubuck Suite (not shoe) in the late '80s and have cleaned them (not regularly- because of the problems) ever since, the last one being a chair last month which came up really well.
So we do have experience of on site practical applications of our processes and the problems that other processes create (because we have tried them) so if you do not want to follow the advice we have given that is entirely up to you and as someone said in an earlier post check your insurance. Repairing damage caused by incorrect use of product or process is usually impossible to rectify on Nubuck.
We have also done colour restoration on Nubuck so we understand the problems of trying to restore colour and damage to Nubuck. We don't do this anymore!!!!
We always teach to play safe so Good Luck.
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All im going by is what I have done these past few months. I have tested the cleaner on seven different upholstery nubucks and I haven't had any problems with it.
What type of problems to you expect to occur? Its only a mild water solution, what possible damage could it cause? I even poured it onto each leather and let it dry and it dried back to normal without any problems.
The only down side of course, is you have to wait for the leather to dry to see any results, but this is something you just allow time for before you start.
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Dirty and worn leather will give vastly different results to tests done on new leather.
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Dirty and worn leather will give vastly different results to tests done on new leather.
Two of the leathers were extremely dirty and each about 2 years old.
But you still didn't answer my question.
What type of problems to you expect to occur?
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We have cleaned many Nubuck suites in the USA where Nubuck was far more popular than it has been here.
Seven Nubuck suites in a few months :o
If you have had wide experience of cleaning Nubuck you will have encountered all the problems yourself. It takes time over many years to experience all the problems that leather presents and cannot be done by simple tests.
Most of the problems that occur when wet cleaning Nubuck have been posted before and I do not intend to put up all the information here so that you can develop your knowledge on the subject just so that you can use it as your own. If you have cleaned 7 Nubuck suites in the last few months then you should have a good knowledge of the problems that these cause and that you are prepared to back up the information and products you supply to your customers.
If you want to pursue this argument please do it through a private email as this is getting out of hand and is very unprofessional.
Any one who wants to discuss the problems of wet cleaning Nubuck with me may contact me on 01423 881027 and I will be happy to help.
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are you joking???
You said wet cleaning causes problems. I haven't had any problems with it, yet you say they occur.
You have to back up your claims, you can't tell people that it damages leather, without proof.........you can't even tell me what the potential damages are.
If you have cleaned 7 Nubuck suites in the last few months then you should have a good knowledge of the problems that these cause and that you are prepared to back up the information and products you supply to your customers.
My point is I haven't had any problems.
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No one mentioned damaging the leather except you. All our statements can be verified and backed up so please read the last paragraph on our last reply. ::)
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This is for the benefit of all members of the forum. You cannot say that one method damages the leather WITHOUT BACKING IT UP.
I am about to start marketing a wet cleaning system for nubuck when all my testing is finished, and I find it offensive that you say its damaging. If you had a good reson I could accept that, but you cannot just brush the matter away because you are unwilling to answer my question, or back up your statements.
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Judy as you said you need to be very experienced when it comes to Nubuck, and it would take lots of years or lots of suites to clean to gain that experience.
For that reason I always walk from them as I have only done a couple of Nubuck cleans and found the end result not to my satisfaction ( strange as the customers seem to be happy with the result). Same goes for any unfinished leather, I just walk now as the customer usually only calls when its too far gone or had a go themselves.
Dont forget that the Nubuck market is only around 4% of the total leather trade.
I prefere to stick to pigmented leather.
Ben thanks for your help with the new PU finish to day it worked a treat and problem solved :D
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Hi Paul
Most people do walk away from Nubuck for the reasons you state. Results are very unpredictable (even when dry cleaning methods are used - although with this method the results are more predictable than with a wet system). As you say Nubuck is a very small %age of the market (I think they must all be in Newcastle by the sounds of it!!)
Unfinished leathers although they do not clean effectively are ideal candidates for restoration which is very straightforward and the results are stunning. Will try and post some photos.
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(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg147/judy105b/Nubuckcleaning.jpg[img]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg147/judy105b/BedRestoration.jpg)(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg147/judy105b/BedRestoration2.jpg)
This shows restoration done on the following bed head.
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(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg147/judy105b/BedRestoration.jpg)
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Here is a testimony of Nubuck Urine Stains Decontamination by Leather Doctor® System.
Besides removal of foreign contaminants successfully, the nubuck is restored new again!
And these are the cleaning features that make customers smile!
1. After 8 years of color loss through natural fading, the colors are enriched and rejuvenated by fatliquor5.0™ thus bringing the color back to its original!
2. Besides texture softness (hand), coarse breaks and creases are minimized (the leather structure looks plump-up after fatliquoring).
3. Nap softness with fatliquoring produce “a finger writing effect”.
4. Natural smooth silky feel that serve as a non-stick protection to sticky soiling too!
5. A classical leather scent that brings out the sensuous leather which has enchanted both ladies and gentlemen through the ages and make leather so captivating.
Read on what Karen has to share - her experience with you.
She can be contacted if you wish.
Well besides there are photos too, if you wish to see!
Happy reading!
Roger Koh.
(Leather Doctor® System is developed for DIY enthusiast to produce stunning professional result – no prerequisite experience necessary!).
We have owned our Nubuck sofa and liove seat for 8 years now.
We bought it at the Bay and at the time were not told how to care for it or really how precious a leather it was.
We had just spotted it, liked the design and colour and as it happened to be on sale, we bought it.
We didn't think much about it until it seemed time we should have it cleaned, as one would periodically clean any furniture.
It happened that we were having our carpets cleaned so I asked the fellow if he could also clean the sofa and love seat.
He informed me as it was suede, it could not be cleaned, that any kind of cleaning treatment would ruin it.
So that was that, we took his word as gospel and just vacuumed it regularly and bought covers for it when our little relatives came to visit.
For eight years we had no incidents other than our cat walked on the back of the sofa with wet paws and left tiny little prints, hardly even noticable.
Of course over time the colour faded and there were usage marks as in any furniture that gets sat upon on a regular basis, however it didn't bother us and after all it was eight years old.
A couple of months ago we had some guests come and stay with us for a few days.
Upon their arrival we all sat in the living room and enjoyed some wine and catch up conversation.
Our guests sat on the sofa, one on the center cushion, the other on the end.
After about three hours of a most enjoyable visit and too much wine we decided to call it a night.
I got up to take the glasses to the kitchen and when I returned the one guest had got up and come around the coffee table to say good night to me
and as I glanced over to where that guest had been sitting I noticed a rather dark triangular "spill ?"
The other guest also noticed it and then looked at the guest standing up and with jaw dropped to the floor said...........you've wet yourself!
Sure enough, the guest looked down and did indeed see wet pants!
I quickly in a panic got some paper towel and tried desperately to soak it up but the sofa had soaked it up like a sponge!
Absolutely nothing was coming up on the paper towel.
My guest was very sorry and asked if it would be ok, and I said well, its suede and it will probably stain.
But I said it's ok, just go on up to bed.
I was devestated & sure it was ruined and would have to be chucked out.
I knew my husband would be horrified, he had gone up to bed befor this had happened,
and so I just told him the guest had spilt some wine in order to save some embarrassment on the behalf of our guest, and not to gross him out!
My God, I suddenly realized I was living an episode from Sienfeld!
Poppy peed on my sofa!!!!! One could really not help but laugh.
In the morning our guests came downstairs and again appologized for the accident and offered to have it cleaned.
I said that was fine, but I had been told because it's suede, it could not be cleaned.
But that I would try to call around and see if someone or something can't be done.
I went through the phone book and called the first cleaner I found, he said it could be done,
but when he showed up and saw it was nubuck leather, told me it could not be done.
I couldn't give up, so kept calling different cleaners, same response.
I called the Bay where it was bought to see if they could do something, they could not.
My sister had asked her carpet cleaner Chem Dry, if he could do it and he said he could.
He came to the house to look at it and told me he could not guarantee getting the stain out, but recommended we tint it to cover it up.
We really didn't want to change the look of the furniture, as it would then look like shiney leather and not suede.
I finally accepted that it could not be cleaned and my brother in law suggested having the center cushion reupholstered with a piece from the back of the sofa.
What a brilliant idea!! The cushions are sewn right into the sofa, so they couldn't even be turned over.
So I called an upholsterer who asked if the back of the sofa was done in strips of leather and not one piece.
It was, and so that cancelled out reupholstering!
There was no way she would ever be able to get another piece of nubuck to match but she gave me the number of the Leather Doctor and suggested I call him.
This is now three weeks after it orignally happend, it took that long to finally find someone who might be able to help.
I phoned Roger and explained a guest had peed on my sofa and could he get the stain out?
Right away in talking with him I felt at ease because of his extensive knowledge about leather care and especially the Nubuck.
Roger explained how the ph levels in the urine could effect the ph levels in the Nubuck and needed to see the stain.
He asked me to take a photo of it under regular light, and under a black light.......thankfully my teenage daughter had asked for one a couple of Christmas's ago, because who has a black light sitting around the house???
Anyway, we were able to send him the photos and he called me telling me he absolutely COULD get the stain out!
What a relief! I thought our furniture was ruined and now it was saved!
We took our sofa to his place and left it in his professional capable hands.
We were amazed when he sent the photo of the center cushion, stain removed!
When we picked up the finished product a few weeks later, we were thrilled!
It looked amazing! The stain completely gone, the finish like new, the colour back to the original colour!
The feel soft and supple again, he had renapped them, and the natural grains were brought out once more.
Our furniture looked brand spanking new and it's eight years old and was peed on!
The Leather Doctor did an amazing job and I would highly recommend him for any kind of leather care.
He was professional, funny and honest.
He could not give me a definate cost at the beginning because it was too unpredictable as to how much product he'd need to restore the furniture, but he gave me a rough estimate and the end result was well within it.
Thank you Roger, the Leather Doctor!
Sincerely,
Karen
White Rock, B.C. Canada.
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Sounds like a happy customer Roger, well done :)