Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Nathanael Jones on December 01, 2007, 10:56:55 am
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I've seen a couple of DIY hot systems mentioned over the past couple of months,... most of which got completely trashed by the members here.
Personally, I thought a lot of the ideas were very good,.. and I'm planning on doing my own DIY hot setup very soon.
What puts you off these DIY options?
If its installed by a Corgi registered gas installer, and you inform your insurance, display the appropriate stickers on your van etc,... why would it be any different from a Concept or Ionics setup,... apart from the price of course?
Here's what its going to cost me:
Heater €140 (inc postage)
Digital in-line thermometer €20 (Inc postage)
Installation €85 (A local plumber)
Gas bottle €40 (ish)
Misc connectors €20
Total €305 or about £200 sterling
Compared to £2.5K for a "brand name" system???????????????
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That would be my one major concern,.. but the plumber I spoke to is registered, and says it would be a very simple job. It would require drilling a hole in the roof of the van for the flue,.. but it's covered with a rotating wind stop that doesn't look too bad,... its a standard thing on the top of refrigerated vans etc, and he's supplying me one for the price!
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just like the stella advert, some things are "reassuringly expensive."
But don't let that put you off posting pics or sharing the info you have gained. Alot of people will be extremely grateful towards you if you can get an effective, safe, hot water system up and running.
Even more so if you can share your info and experience.
It was exactly the same for wfp systems a couple of years ago on here. Now lots of people have wfp systems from a huge range of prices and no-one bats an eyelid anymore. Everyone now sings from the same song sheet whenever someone has a wfp related problem.
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I would certainly be interested in seeing some pics and all the info you can give like all the parts needed where they come from and any problems that you have had to overcome to get the system up and running
Dean
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I don't have one yet,.. but I was talking to a guy on another forum who has one and says the running cost is about £1 per day.
The heater is an "on demand" tank less water heater designed for caravan's/RV's. The ignition is powered by 2 "D" batteries, and it has the usual overheat/ oxygen sensor/ flow sensor safety cut-outs.
Basically, once its installed, the gas is switched on, and the unit is switched on,... it will automatically start heating when the water begins to flow,... and cut off when the water stops.
There is a 20 minute safety cut out,... but on the rare occasions when I do go more than 2 minutes without stopping to move the hose etc,.. all that needs to be done is stop the water for a few seconds, let the heater reset, and start again.
The flame, flow rate is completely adjustable,.. at its max its over 60,000 BTU, as much as some central heating boilers,... so 20 minutes recycling the water into the (well insulated) van tank at night should be plenty to stop any worries about freezing.
Here's the heater:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110201074124&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001
And here's a handy in-line digital thermometer:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290172021918&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019
The ebay seller is going to e-mail me a manual for the heater,.. so I should be able to answer any more questions shortly. There is a smaller version of the same heater too,.. but its only rated to 72 PSI,.. and since I'd have it positioned after the pump, I wouldn't chance it.
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buy a carbon monoxide alarm for your van, 35 quid well spent ;)
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A good idea with any hot system Matt,.. any link where to buy them?
This unit has an oxygen sensor, and cuts out the burner should the oxygen level drop,.. but rather safe than sorry!!
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Sounds good, my only worry is pressure, the heater may not be able to deal with varistream on full blast? Luke
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The model linked to above will take 145 PSI (and is tested to double that I think),.. and up to 10 litres a minute,... so it'd even do a 2 man setup with ease.
There is also another option that interests me,.. but not as effective, and slightly more expensive,.. but with the advantage of not having a gas cylinder in the van. A heat exchanger (http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170173833318&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007) can be fitted to your vehicle which takes the excess heat from the engine and transfers it to your van tank when driving. You'd need to add a thermostat, a circulating pump, and some quite awkward fitting to the list,.. but its free and eco-friendly heat! It would remove any worries of freezing, and provide lukewarm water,.. but you'd need to drive (or leave the engine running) for an hour to obtain the desired temp, as it would heat the whole tank,.. not just the water you use.
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great!
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that looks sound.
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I'd have ordered one already,.. but I'm having trouble finding out what the Irish rules and regs are for carrying a gas cylinder in a vehicle! I've e-mailed 2 gas suppliers/distributors and 2 government departments,... not one of them has go back to me yet.
Lots of google searching only turned up the UK regs!!
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Nathanael, remeber to get hot water hose, either form Omnipole/Ionics or Concept and please post some pictures!! I would like toi do something similar but I would have to thing carefully about space, as my vans getting tight! Luke
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But not many poeple supply it in a microbore style in such long lengths, I was talking to Concept and they had alot of trouble finding a supplier, they get it from Italy, Luke
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I was planning to use standard minibore to begin with.
I'm told the max water temp on the glass should be 40 deg C in the summer, and 20 deg C in the winter or for single glazing to avoid any risk of cracking. Even with the heat loss down the pipe (Prob 10 - 15 Deg C), it should still be achievable. I'll be using 2 of those inline thermometers to start with,.. 1 at the van, and one on the bottom of the pole.
I'm lead to believe that standard minibore will handle 60 deg C,.. but not much above it???? Please correct me if I'm wrong,.. before I blow the hose!!!
Once it's all installed and tested, I'll splash out on some hot pipe,... by then Alex might have his new one on sale!
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A good idea with any hot system Matt,.. any link where to buy them?
This unit has an oxygen sensor, and cuts out the burner should the oxygen level drop,.. but rather safe than sorry!!
any diy store (b&q etc etc)
good luck with the install, dont get disheartened by the people who will knock the idea because it hasnt got a heafty price tag, im sure you know it will happen ;)
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dont get disheartened by the people who will knock the idea because it hasnt got a heafty price tag, im sure you know it will happen ;)
getting a sense of deja vu, matt? ;D
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I wantto have something similar soon, I will see how Nathanael get son first, Luke
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It will cost the same again in postage if you want it this year:
Postal Service
SAL surface & Air
$75
To Any Country 4 to 8 weeks delivery . Registered Mail
Postal Service
Surface Mail $40
To Any Country 6 to 12 weeks- by land and sea, depends on transport availability to your City. Registered Mail
Postal Service
EMS Express $142
To Any Country 5 to 8 working days delivery, trackable
Make sure you use paypal to pay for it.
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The guy I know went for the cheap postage and got it in 2 weeks.
I've been looking into diesel powered heaters too,.. but got sick of being outbid for them!
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Here's a carbon monoxide alarm cheap:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Carbon-monoxide-detector-Recomended-by-British-Gas_W0QQitemZ160185650958QQihZ006QQcategoryZ41970QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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we have 2 of them ones like on ebay
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dont get disheartened by the people who will knock the idea because it hasnt got a heafty price tag, im sure you know it will happen ;)
getting a sense of deja vu, matt? ;D
indeed i am ;)
ive looked at a hot water setup and i even spoke to a guy in the USA about them, along the same lines as nat is, it'll work well imho
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As per hot water hose. Varitech now do microbore and minibore rated to 60c. Its called microbore plus or something. They just sent me a leaflet on it. So none of this half inch nonsense.
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i used to sell Carbon mon alarms on ebay, i used to work for the MOD and had a few spare, nice little earner at the time ;)
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I use a heater much like this one and it does the job.
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Is it the case that the higher the flow rate, the colder the water with this heater? Luke
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As per hot water hose. Varitech now do microbore and minibore rated to 60c. Its called microbore plus or something. They just sent me a leaflet on it. So none of this half inch nonsense.
any idea of the price??? They really should get a website!!!
Yep Luke,.. the more water, the colder it gets,.. that's why I'd go for this hugely overpowered unit and dial it down!
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So at full output what temp will it heat to? Luke
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But not many poeple supply it in a microbore style in such long lengths, I was talking to Concept and they had alot of trouble finding a supplier, they get it from Italy, Luke
Yes just as if you turn down the water flow and up the gas the water gets extremely hot.
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So at full output what temp will it heat to? Luke
at 1 litre a minute, at full power, you could make your coffee with it!
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So at full output what temp will it heat to? Luke
That depends on the inlet temp.
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Just went out and measured the temp in my tank with my tds meter ( bearing in mind it is very cold here today!! ), it was 12oC. So my inlet temp would be around 12oC, Luke
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I'd have ordered one already,.. but I'm having trouble finding out what the Irish rules and regs are for carrying a gas cylinder in a vehicle! I've e-mailed 2 gas suppliers/distributors and 2 government departments,... not one of them has go back to me yet.
Lots of google searching only turned up the UK regs!!
It's an interesting concept.
I wonder what the regs say?
Naked flames with a gas supply is one thing but also in a van full of petrol/diesel?
I'll be interested to hear how it all works out for you. :)
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I was told it was not legal for me to have a USA supplied shurflo backpack coz it didn't have the CE mark ::)
What they'll make of a Gas water heater from China I've no idea ;D
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Sod the 'regulations', just don't do anything obviously stoopid and yule be ok.
(notice the xmas reference?)
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I think these will work well.
In fact a supplier I know has a system fitted with one on trial now. The problem is that they aren't CE marked so no Corgi registered plumber should fit one.. note I said should.
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Exactly.