Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: lee_dewing on November 30, 2007, 04:49:59 pm

Title: blown windows
Post by: lee_dewing on November 30, 2007, 04:49:59 pm: anyone been blamed for water in between windows.
what do you say?
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: squeejay on November 30, 2007, 04:56:47 pm: Quote from: lee_dewing on November 30, 2007, 04:49:59 pm
anyone been blamed for water in between windows.
what do you say?
im trad mate its impossible but still get blamed >:(
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: simon knight on November 30, 2007, 05:13:17 pm: I see loads of blown windows, especially Veluxs. I tell customers they can't be fixed....am I right in saying this or is there some company that has a way of sorting the problem out?
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: Blackbushe Windows on November 30, 2007, 06:12:17 pm: Some double-glazed windows blow very quickly - within a year or 2. Others will last many years. The water between panes is condensation that is not your fault.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: windowwashers on November 30, 2007, 06:16:18 pm: Quote from: lee_dewing on November 30, 2007, 04:49:59 pm
anyone been blamed for water in between windows.
what do you say?
Never been blamed for it ever, if I ever did I would laugh then explain what I blown window means.

And that is the seal is damaged and letting in air/moisture ect
the seal is in the middle of the frame, unless you take the out side frame off then rub it up and down alot you would never touch it.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: Captain Scarlet on November 30, 2007, 06:18:35 pm: My dad used to work for Everest, it is a broken sealed unit caused by bad craftsmanship and poor quality materials, Luke
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: M & C Window Cleaning on November 30, 2007, 06:54:48 pm: I was once blamed for a blown unit by a double glazing company when they came to fix it within the guarantee period. That was when I was trad only. I just told the custy that they were trying to point the finger elsewhere to take the heat off themselves. After all, what is the point of manufacturing a window that can't be washed without damaging it.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: gsw on November 30, 2007, 07:28:58 pm: i have a customer who has dg in wooden frames and where the units are not a great fit in the frames sometimes the water runs down the inside of the glass, this has now been sorted as she had the painter and decorator mastick all the window panes......they are georgian windows !!!!!! bet he was cursing me!
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: Llaaww on November 30, 2007, 08:21:41 pm: I found this, another one that I have seen involves drilling a small hole in the sealed unit and filling it with cleaning solution before emptying it again with a syringe. Probably not worth it unless it is a particuarlu big window.

How we cure a Window

With the Crystal Clear restoration, this cycle of net accumulation of moisture is reversed. Using proprietary, precision tools, our technicians effectively re-engineer a window, introducing breathing holes so the unit can expel moisture on its own.

The secret to the Crystal Clear process involves the installation of the 'micro' DefoggerTM valve and seal. When radiant energy such as sunlight heats and pressurizes a curing window, the valve is activated, allowing vaporized moisture in the chamber to vent to the outside. In a very short period, all moisture is expelled from the environment. The sealed unit no longer accumulates moisture and has recovered its 'dry air' insulating properties.

No mess from tearing out the sash. No inconvenience with work often performed from the exterior or discreetly from the interior. No manufacturing with finite raw materials. No burning of fossil fuels to manufacture and transport windows. No waste of glass (estimated at 1 cu. tonne every year in America).

An eco-friendly restoration at a fraction of the cost of replacing the unit.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: Neil Williams on November 30, 2007, 08:45:54 pm: Quote from: lee_dewing on November 30, 2007, 04:49:59 pm
anyone been blamed for water in between windows.
what do you say?

It did happen once. Once I'd stopped laughing there was a small debate on how moisture appears between the glass. There you go matey you need new patio doors.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner on November 30, 2007, 08:52:51 pm: Does anyone ever get asked to replace window glass that has blown?
If so,how do ya go about it.I`ve been asked a couple of times,wonder
If it might be a good `add on` perhaps.Luke,can you ask your dad,what
Does he say? Thanks.

Lewis Doubtfire
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: john tomkins on November 30, 2007, 09:37:52 pm: I was told the constant changing of temperature on the glass (sun, rain etc_)
causes moisture on the insides of the unit, around the outsides of the unit is a moisture absorbant strip/beads and when that gets to capacity then condensation will form between the glass and it's new glazed unit time.
True or not? :-\
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: L.J.Thorpe on November 30, 2007, 10:37:11 pm: jesus find a window fitter/glazier sealed units are relatively cheap and easy to fit my neighbour did a swop on an opaque one of mine for free just because i got him some work also it saved my customer thousands cos she had the units swopped instead of new windows even if i paid for mine was only 30 quid and took all of 20 mins to fit
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: Londoner on December 01, 2007, 07:26:07 am: The units are expected to break down after about ten years. The glass constantly expands and contracts so eventually the rubber seal just gives out. Because of the extra expansion and contraction caused by direct sunlight, windows facing the sun go quicker.

A unit can be changed in minutes and the trade price is peanuts. The window companies don't make the units themselves. They all buy them from a central manufacturer.
There is a company round here called "Window Doctor" who make a good living out of changing blown units. It is definitely a good add on business for any window cleaner but you need to find someone to show you the ropes and where to buy the units.

There was a good thread on here a while back about just that.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: matt on December 01, 2007, 10:01:56 am: Quote from: Vince Green on December 01, 2007, 07:26:07 am
The units are expected to break down after about ten years. The glass constantly expands and contracts so eventually the rubber seal just gives out. Because of the extra expansion and contraction caused by direct sunlight, windows facing the sun go quicker.

A unit can be changed in minutes and the trade price is peanuts. The window companies don't make the units themselves. They all buy them from a central manufacturer.
There is a company round here called "Window Doctor" who make a good living out of changing blown units. It is definitely a good add on business for any window cleaner but you need to find someone to show you the ropes and where to buy the units.

There was a good thread on here a while back about just that.

correct in all accounts, they say the ave life is 10 years, some break down in less as the fitter might leave bits of grit / sand in the bottom of the window when its fitted, this causes it to wear faster

some1 was trying to sell the info a while back on here
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: davids3511 on December 01, 2007, 07:05:36 pm: Would be an interesting sideline. We would certainly know who to target, at least in the beginning.

Where can you go to learn about the job? Haven't exactly got the time to become a glaziers apprentice.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: Londoner on December 02, 2007, 06:50:40 am: The first step would be to find out where to buy the units from. you can buy them from any window company but they are going to put a big mark up on them.

We need to find out where they buy them from. I think I have a source that might know.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: S.A.J on December 02, 2007, 07:40:13 am: How have I got condensation inside my double glazed unit?
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The double glazed unit consists of 2 pieces of glass held apart around the edge by a (usually silver colored) spacer bar. This bar is filled with a desiccant, tiny silica balls similar to those found in parcels to reduce the moisture levels. In the case of double glazed units, the silica soaks up any residual moisture held in the space within the unit when it is first made. Around the outside of this metal spacer bar, sealant is pumped to seal the unit and complete the process.

After a period of time the seal 'breaks down', causing a hairline fracture in the seal, thereby letting air containing moisture in. Various factors can accelerate this breakdown, such as wood frames and putty, poor frame drainage, poor installations not leaving sufficient gap between the glass edge and the frame, locations in extreme sunny positions or where excessive vibrations occur.

Once air can get into the unit, the silica originally used becomes fully saturated and condensation starts to form as temperatures rise and fall against the side of the glass.
If your units were installed during the last 10 years, check your guarantee and see if you are still covered.

Despite rumours to the contrary, it is not possible to repair the units by splitting them and re-sealing them!

Stuart 8)
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: LWC on December 02, 2007, 10:04:22 am: one old woman came out once and tolf me to go away and look what ive done to her front window. the had gone, and i knew this from before when i was trad, i always saw it, but she has net curtains up so decided to blame me.

i just said theres not enough pressure to blowyour seal im sorry. its not me.

then...ohh then she made me mad, it wasnt anything to do with that..."oh well i dont like the way you just splash a bit f water around on the window.

bye bye i said...then get this, "oh no i want you to do the windows" WHAAAAAATTTTT!!!???!!!???

i did them and never went back lol
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: john tomkins on December 02, 2007, 10:08:01 am: Had one say can you leave the top few inches of the bedroom window (must have been 8ft x 4ft) coz you keep filling the insides of the glass with water ::)
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: davids3511 on December 02, 2007, 06:30:29 pm: Quote from: Vince Green on December 02, 2007, 06:50:40 am
I think I have a source that might know.

Please let me know if you find out anything.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: Londoner on December 03, 2007, 07:47:58 pm: Yes I will but its not likely to be before the weekend.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: lee_dewing on December 04, 2007, 09:33:05 am: thanks all didn't have time to type out much as run out of time on internet at library.

Doing customer today £18 job he phoned me up last month and in a round about way was blaming me for a blown decrocative window.

I gave all explanations and stood my ground i.e south facing windows tend to go first and all other reasons given here, in the heat of the moment i agreed to carry but use ladders, i now regret saying this and don't know wether to dump him,
leave a note saying sorry but no thanks.
Just don't feel comfortable cleaning somones windows who's going to hold me responsible for every problem on his property?

I have actually cleaned upvc with wfp and seen water running inbetween panes so it can't be impossible to get in(am i wrong)

dangerous subject!
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: windowwashers on December 04, 2007, 09:54:53 am: Quote from: lee_dewing on December 04, 2007, 09:33:05 am
thanks all didn't have time to type out much as run out of time on internet at library.

Doing customer today £18 job he phoned me up last month and in a round about way was blaming me for a blown decrocative window.

I gave all explanations and stood my ground i.e south facing windows tend to go first and all other reasons given here, in the heat of the moment i agreed to carry but use ladders, i now regret saying this and don't know wether to dump him,
leave a note saying sorry but no thanks.
Just don't feel comfortable cleaning somones windows who's going to hold me responsible for every problem on his property?

I have actually cleaned upvc with wfp and seen water running inbetween panes so it can't be impossible to get in(am i wrong)

dangerous subject!
if the seals have gone then yes it can get in, if it hasnt gone it cant.

I would avoid this customer just to be on the safe side.

Ian
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: Ian_Giles on December 04, 2007, 10:11:30 am: I can't imagine any possible way for water to get into a double glazed unit from being cleaned with WFP.
The seal would have to be incredibly badly damaged for water to get in as a result of being cleaned, and as has been pointed out, the seal is on the top edges of the pane, and this is invariably up inside the beading holding the pane in place.
Moist air might get inside but not water in it's liquid form.

Ian
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: john tomkins on December 04, 2007, 04:32:08 pm: I agree with Ian, really can'r see water getting in at the top of the unit, you are probably seeing what sometime happens and the water is getting past the seal on an opening window and trickling down the insides of the glass flooding the sill :o
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: Londoner on December 04, 2007, 06:58:43 pm: Water can't get into a window unit. The only reason you might see water running down the back of the glass is if the water is getting past the frame and running down the other side, not the inside.

Condensation forms inside as the leaking unit heats up and contracts so does the air inside. When the air inside expands it forces some of the air inside out past the leaking seal. When the unit cools down again air is sucked back it from outside. However the air that is sucked back contains a little moisture which condenses against the cold glass. Next day the process is repeated and so on. Eventually the unit looks like somebody has boiled a kettle in there.
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: lee_dewing on December 05, 2007, 09:53:33 am: ian window washers seems like your the only one that agrees with me.

I'm not making it up guys it was another customer next door to this one funny enough downstairs window was shut at the time of cleaning was blown but not terrible, as i cleaned with wfp, water trikled down inbetween pane, i poop myself.
left my bill as customer out, in with cheque was a note saying they were cancelling til further notice.

I always tell customers there's no way water can get in(fullstop).
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: windowwashers on December 05, 2007, 10:55:34 am: Quote from: lee_dewing on December 05, 2007, 09:53:33 am
ian window washers seems like your the only one that agrees with me.

I'm not making it up guys it was another customer next door to this one funny enough downstairs window was shut at the time of cleaning was blown but not terrible, as i cleaned with wfp, water trikled down inbetween pane, i poop myself.
left my bill as customer out, in with cheque was a note saying they were cancelling til further notice.

I always tell customers there's no way water can get in(fullstop).

I like to be Controversial ;)
Title: Re: blown windows
Post by: kevinc on December 07, 2007, 08:43:04 pm: intresting one this,i'm a fitter during the week(need to build my round up so i can sack the day job)vince is right regarding expansion and contraction-the use of washing liquid will quicken the failure of a sealed unit(it reacts with the seal(as most are oil based)and causes the unit to fail)being wrestling with this one for a bit,do i use fairy and get loads of work changing glass or use say unger detergent instead, if anyone is in the leeds area and would like a free lesson on changing sealed units i'm up for it as for where you can get them-most glaziers will make them for you nowadays at very cheap prices around £30 a metre is average-this is a very good add-on to get into fourty or fifty quid profit for an hours work(including a cup of tea is not to be sniffed at)