Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: lee_gundry on November 15, 2004, 10:52:38 pm
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with more & more carpet/upholstery cleaners now using micro splitters,which brand do you use????
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looking at the poll results so far.
is it poosible the price has some thing to do with it ?
or can all you people tell a difference, i cant
please tell me how if you can
geoff
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Cost is my main factor..........we are in business to make money and every little bit helps.
Never tried any other microsplitters because..........Solutions sent me a FREE sample pack :o No one else offered such a thing and as a result i now use the product. This approach and the customer service mean that i do not need to look elsewhere. Once treated in such a way then who would look elsewhere for a product that does the same and arrives in a similar time but costs more ???
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i too have just got a sample pack from solutions.......£15+vat. whats going on nick as you seem to be charging some of us for a sample and giving it to others.
how do you guys find it on cost compared with a detergent?
solution no.2 10l is £30+vat+delivery dilute at 1/10
prochem extraction pro is £7+vat pick it up local dilute 1/100
am i missing something as solutions seem to cost a lot more?
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Number 2 is not an extraction solution but a pre spray so only small amounts are needed.
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I think the best thing about microsplitters is that I can confidently walk into a customers house and remove nearly all stains and marks with very little to cart about and very small risk of damage. I use a half decent portable machine, and I think I can get as good results as anyone else using solutions, and I've only been c/c a year. They are also very easy to use, and I've never heard of anyone causing damage using them.
I paid for my trial pack too, but it was worth every penny, its nothing compared to all the detergents & chemicals I have sitting in the garage, most likely never to be used again.
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where do you get micro splitters from ie website, phone number etc
thanks
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yes paul i know its a prespray, but i still think it would work out a lot more expensive.
i have just cleaned a large suite and i used 0.6l of no.2, does that sound excessive? i was happy with the result and so was the customer which is of course important.
with the remainder of my 1l trial bottle i cleaned of my two seaters and i cleaned the other with haitian cotton cleaner, i could see no difference and niether could the missus. as i was cleaning the sofas i thought solutions were winning but when finished and dry they both looked as good. the solutions clean would have cost me about 10 times more than the chemspec product.
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Shaun
But solutions would not cause damage to your respiritory system!!
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Hi Guys,
I think the reason Solution is Beating One step 3:1 is that Nick is pushing much harder - better marketing.
Cheers,
Doug
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Hi Shaun
You only pay delivery on small orders, Nobody delivers for free, some just include delivery in the price we offer a choice. trial packs are offered free from time to time,
I note you suggest a dilution of 1-10, why not try diluting higher it will dilute 1-20
if used correctly microsplitters work our far cheaper and more importantly much much SAFER than conventional chemicals,
Best regards Nick
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For myself, I use OneStep Fineline for virtually everything, synthetic as well as wool. I've used Solutions No2 and found it excellent, and wouldn't like to say if it's better or worse than other brands as I can't honestly tell. But for the way I work with my equipment, I get on better with the OneStep Fineline rather than Solutions No.4. I feel again that the cleaning performance is inseperable, but the agitation is easier with Fineline for me with my equipment.
For my approach to business, I find what works for me then charge accordingly, so cost isn't an important factor and chemical costs within our sector of the industry is very low anyway. Plus I don't pay list price for my goods. As for micro splitting spotters, I think Eco Spotter is really rather good. Or should I say superbly fantastic. So is the No3 sample I have but, to be honest with Eco. to hand there is little need for No3 if I use my own 1:3 regular spotting mix. As for service, who's the best? Wouldn't like to say except that if everyone offered the same standard asmy suppliers and Solutions UK there would never be any complaints 8)
Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken
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Can we all just agree that both products are very good, both offer good service and that choosing between the two is down to personal preference ;D
I keep No 2 & No4 handy at all times along with eco-spotter and no 3
but also one or two other brands for red wine,tanning etc.I also have Fineline which I will use on upholstery.I can not see any difference between the two and I am quite happy using either ;) I like the fact that both are very safe to use for customer and cleaner alike.
As for cost I make mine go a long way but find the Solugard to be expensive in comparison to other protectors.
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I think i got my sample free as a joining promotion for ANOTHER FORUM :-X
I still use the Solutions but not the forum :P
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Shaun
I would usually use 1-2 litres for an average suite (pre-spray) with a fresh water rinse on most occasions.
I would never just clean with a detergent in the tank and no pre-spray as the results are inferior IMO except under furniture which doesnt see the light of day.
I use solutions due to it being cheaper. If I thought one step was better then I'd buy it. As Ken says chemical cost is nothing.
Mark
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Regarding cost, the fact acidic rinse is not needed with micro splitter is an instant saving. I clean some really grubby commercial carpets and did use prochem high force then acidic rinse which i was really happy with, I have more recently changed over to Solutions heavy duty which works out cheaper, less messing about, no risk of leaving residue and believe it or not ( sceptics wont :-\ )gets better results.
This stuff really is the business!!
Paul
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I now use micro splitters and they are cost effective.
If use use the wrong concintrations and over spray then you will use more product.
However if the fabric is very heavily soiled then you will use more, but must price accordingly.
FROM MY EXPERIENCE ONLY THE USE OF M/S TAKES TIME TO GET RIGHT BUT ONCE DONE IT IS SUPERB
Paul
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Doug
Been looking at the latest C&M mag and CHT cant see any mention/pictures of Solutions, great marketing Nick?
Ken
Lost a bit on agitation is easier etc, can you elaborate?
Shaun P
I also had to pay for mine, that’s life! By the way I do find it cheaper using M/S
Len
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Hi,
Drank the remainder of my batch, absolutely crap stuff, wouldn't wash a dog in it.
Cheers
Pete
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Peter,
Your doing something wrong ;)
Paul
P.S, Brings the dog up a treat ;D
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Has anyone tried The World of Cleans new product,
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Ian I've been using Biosafe for the last month and I can't tell the differance from other M/S
this is why I voted 'other' on the above Poll
Mike
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Len
Most of my work is on wool. I always use the softest brushes available on my host machine, but I know that many use stiffer quite safely most of the time. I find that with Fineline, the agitation process can often be completed quicker, and more spots broken down, than with other products I've used.
There maybe other variables though to the equation. Different identical machines have different rpm due to manufacturing/assembly variations. The water available locally may have an influence or it may even be a mindset of mine ??? But, as we all often find, I've found products and systems that work for me, so I'll stick with them. If Fineline wasn't available, I would gladly use similar alternative products.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Ken,
You may have read posts where I have commented on not being convinced about MSs, however I see that you clean mainly wool carpets. If I were doing the same then I would happily switch to MSs as my main method, however in my oporation in my area, wool carpets account for a maximum of only 25% of the jobs I do. On medium soiled wool carpets I have had excellent results with both One Step and Solutions using a fresh water rinse.
Dave.
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I hear what you're saying Dave, and , as always, you need to go with what works for you with your systems.
I keep with the woolsafe product for all carpets because a) I'm couldn't be bothered to change the bottle on my Spraymaster, so b) I've made it work for me. Yes, I do frequently clean carpets with synthetic yarns, so I fill the Cleaning Pie with more aggressive agitation. This means that for most residential carpets, the brushes I use on my Host Machine are as follows: Wool and cut pile nylon Soft Gold Brushes. All polypropylene and loop nylon Medium White Brushes and for Flotex Stiff Black Brushes. Me and my customers are delighted with the results.
It is frequently said by many that they can't quite achieve the desired result with microsplitters and freshwater rinse, so the extra help from a detergent rinse helps to tip the balance. I think it's important to bare in mind that a detergent, even without OB's will initially brighten a carpet as you work, usually giving an artificial impression as to it's real cleanliness. A FW rinse, however, will make the fabric look darker/duller than it will when dry. Liken it to spilling some water onto your shirt. The wet area will look darker and duller than the dry areas around it.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Ken
Thanks for the feedback; I believe water quality has a part to play in our game.
Len
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For myself, I use OneStep Fineline for virtually everything, synthetic as well as wool. I've used Solutions No2 and found it excellent, and wouldn't like to say if it's better or worse than other brands as I can't honestly tell. But for the way I work with my equipment, I get on better with the OneStep Fineline rather than Solutions No.4. I feel again that the cleaning performance is inseperable, but the agitation is easier with Fineline for me with my equipment.
Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken
How can agitation be easier with fineline rather than solution no4 are they both not liquids.I too use a Host machine and i cannot see where your coming from with that comment ???
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Sorry Steve,
Perhaps I should have said that the agitation appears to take less time to achieve the same results on both soil and spots. Hence the term "easier" which, I suppose, is not strictly accurate.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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I used microsplitters for the first time today on a grubby looking h/s/l carpet and to say i was impressed was an understatment these things are brilliant i still cant get my head around how they work mind you
i would reccomend anybody doing a trial with microsplitters because you wont belive the results without trying it your self
Thanks Nick!!
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The reason most people are using Solutions is simple "PRICE".
Just bought 2 cases from Nick - £105.72 +vat
One Step 2 cases - £170.00 + vat
Both do the same job, if John Bolton says so thats good enough for me.
Why spend £65.00 more for somthing that gives equal results.
Phil
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With the greatest respect for all concerned re: the use of MS, I mainly only use them for "some" upholstery.
I believe that operators who initialy try these chemicals/cleaning agents are first, delighted with the results, then carry on using them and eventually get so used to the results that they begin to believe that "this is it , this is the best cleaning result achievable" when it may not be.
I DO find them to be better at upholstery cleaning over carpet cleaning, furthermore I will say I cannot achive different good/better or worse with any of the brands currently available, although I have yet to try Biosafe off Paul. I definetly commend Nick and Karl though , for encouraging people to clear rinse as it has been the case in my opinion that CCs for far too long have been leaving heavy residues behind due to obviously using too much of "whatever" agent they was using. Just my tuppence worth.
Glynn
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Hi Guys,
Had my first experience today where m/s was better than anything else on fringes of a chinese rug.
This was the best result I can remember achieving.
Otherwise I have found m/s good on most upholstery and some carpets.
Cheers,
Doug
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Those who refer to using MS on some carpets, I presume its the dirtier maybe commercial jobs where conventional detergents are prefered??
If I am correct and this is the case, next time perform a head to head with Heavy Duty Solutions Number 2 against your conventional detergent.
I did this and not only does the MS aproach save alot of messing about, the results were superior, it works out cheaper, exposure wont kill me and of course residue free ;D
Of all the micro splitting varients i have used this stuff really has impressed me.
Paul
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I have been using M/S for most of this year, but today decided to do a comparative test on identical 80/20 off-white carpet.
I used conventional pre-spray in the dining room & M/S in the lounge. Agitation as normal.
I found no significant difference in ease of cleaning or in end result. Both carpets were heavily spotted, and both products worked equally well at removing these.
The only discernable difference was that the conventional product produced a slightly brighter result.
So I am really none the wiser ??? I think further comparisons will be necessary.
Bryan
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Bryan
The comparisons...were these made immediately after the clean or when they were completely dry... there's a difference?
Micro-splitters do tend to be duller in appearance until completely dry.
Derek
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Bryan
The words Optical Brighteners, spring to mind!!
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Obviously the end result is what counts, i.e. when dry. I did a cotton/rayon mix suite today. I used solutions no 2. On the lightly soiled areas a fine mist was enough, on the more heavily soiled areas I found the initial mist although actively agigated was not good enough, but a second application produced acceptable results. I clean one heavily soiled seat cushion in this manner and speed dried with the blower whilst doing the rest of the suite exept the other settee seat cushion.
When the cleaned cushion was dry I compared it with the still soiled other seat cushion - it was certainly much cleaner and I have to admit as the suite was drying it was getting brighter all the time.
I guess its a case of going through the procedures and knowing its clean even if it doesnt jump out and say "Im clean" as soon as youve done it, just like some wool carpets do even when using conventional detergents with optical brighteners.
I agree with Glynn, I can definetly see the value of MSs more in the use of upholstery cleaning than carpets, but would add that anyone leaving sustantial conventional detergent residues in whatever they are cleaning, are not using them correctly, for there is no reason why this should happen. When used correctly they do not leave resoiling residues, as is proved in my operations on a daily basis - like today, lounge carpet, medium soiled - I last cleaned with Crystal Green four years ago. It hadnt been cleaned since and as I was going the client said "See you in another four years."
Dave.
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Derek & John,
The slight difference in brightness was noticed immediately after cleaning, NOT when dry ! and it was only slight & I am sure would not be noticed by the client.
Probably the normal pre-spray does contain some optical brighteners, although does not specifically say so.
But I agree with Dave, even using conventional products correctly should leave only minimal residue & not cause a re-soiling problem. I have certainly never been aware of such problems with any of the different products I have used over the years, or at least no-one has brought it to my attention.
Bryan
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That detergents can contribute to an acceleration of the re-soil rate has been clearly demonstrated and is something that I have observed myself (on remedial cleans) many times.
Factors that can affect this contribution include the formulation of the detergent product. This is not the 'self-neutralising' factor, which refers to its' pH, but the fact that some detergents are more free-rinsing than others.
By far the greatest factor is the way that they are employed by the cleaner. Using the correct dilution rate and leaving the minimum amount of product in the carpet will ensure that this unfortunate side-effect is kept to a minimum - practically unnoticeable - extent.
In different areas of life there are chemicals and chemical compounds such as aspirin and paracetamol that can be highly beneficial when applied correctly. When not correctly use, that can have seriously detrimental consequences - if a substitute for either of these were to become available that did not have the same potential for harm but was otherwise efficacious, then it would be worthy of support. I think that micro-splitters fall into this category.