Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: simon knight on November 17, 2007, 03:04:50 pm
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There was a time when I thought some who posted on here dumped customers too readily and my attitude was to cut custies a load of slack.
I was wrong...so wrong.
I've found there's basically 2 types of customers.
1) Those who genuinely want their windows cleaned regularly...monthly, bi-monthly or quarterly...I'm not fussed as long as they stick to the arrangement!
and 2) Those who really just want them cleaned as and when they're filthy...perhaps twice a year and want to call me.
Those who fall into category No.2 are being dumped and this is effectively halving my customer base so lots more canvassing required.
I know that from time to time I'll get calls from dumped customers wanting a clean....but what's a nice way of saying "you're dumped"?
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"I/We run a all year round service I/we cant afford to have customers choosing when they do and when they dont want there windows done' I/We clean on a weekly or monthly arrangement'
I would and have said something like that
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Someone said to me "if your boss told you to take two months off without pay you wouldn't like it would you?" It's the same for us we need a regular income we have mortgages to pay the same as everyone else.
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I have had alot saying to me oh i want it doing every 2 or 3 months etc and say so i will ring you then....
but i allways try and get them doin on paper well george so if they want every 3monthly clean fine.. but i dont let them ring me i allways get them down on george and i just come when george tells me.
I had one that i said ok give me a ring when u want them cleaning near when i first started what a big mistake!
Dave
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It must be great being so successful and minted from window cleaning that you can dump customers as you feel like. Sure most my customers are regular but the ones who do only want windows cleaned when they call I rarely refuse, I just explain my pricing( more than a regular clean obviously ) at that it will be' x 'amount at pre arranged time with instant payment. They do call me back and I dont have a problem with this. Work is work and so is money. If I've the time and its worth my while doing I never turn a job opportunity down.
Thats not a dig at you Simon or anyone else, just I'm not a wealthy window cleaner, I get by fine but until which time I've too much work I'll continue to adopt the same approach to my work.
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It must be great being so successful and minted from window cleaning that you can dump customers as you feel like. Sure most my customers are regular but the ones who do only want windows cleaned when they call I rarely refuse, I just explain my pricing( more than a regular clean obviously ) at that it will be' x 'amount at pre arranged time with instant payment. They do call me back and I dont have a problem with this. Work is work and so is money. If I've the time and its worth my while doing I never turn a job opportunity down.
Everyone is different in many ways :)
I to wouldn't turn a job down, but we are talking about customers that arrange to have it done weekly/monthly then change there mind and mess u about
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It must be great being so successful and minted from window cleaning that you can dump customers as you feel like. Sure most my customers are regular but the ones who do only want windows cleaned when they call I rarely refuse, I just explain my pricing( more than a regular clean obviously ) at that it will be' x 'amount at pre arranged time with instant payment. They do call me back and I dont have a problem with this. Work is work and so is money. If I've the time and its worth my while doing I never turn a job opportunity down.
Everyone is different in many ways :)
I to wouldn't turn a job down, but we are talking about customers that arrange to have it done weekly/monthly then change there mind and mess u about
Oh I see, sorry
In my case what I've said above still applies I'd just slap some extra pricing on them and explain that what they want is different to a regular clean and let them decide.
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It must be great being so successful and minted from window cleaning that you can dump customers as you feel like. Sure most my customers are regular but the ones who do only want windows cleaned when they call I rarely refuse, I just explain my pricing( more than a regular clean obviously ) at that it will be' x 'amount at pre arranged time with instant payment. They do call me back and I dont have a problem with this. Work is work and so is money. If I've the time and its worth my while doing I never turn a job opportunity down.
Everyone is different in many ways :)
I to wouldn't turn a job down, but we are talking about customers that arrange to have it done weekly/monthly then change there mind and mess u about
...and that's the whole point. Do you want regular guaranteed work or a book full of as and when punters?
All of my custies when first cleaned agreed to a regular basis...1, 2 or 3 monthly...then come the month some gave it the old "well they're ok at the moment can we leave it for another month or can I call you?"
I agree money is money but I don't want the situation where custies tittle-tattle in the street and Mrs Jones says: "Oh I just call him when I need them done"...and Mrs Smith thinks "Mmmm..I'll do that as well."
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I have had problems with customers doing similar things to what others have described in this thread. As I am not doing too well I can't really afford to drop them so I just grin and bear it for the most part but it is very annoying.
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hi simon just tell them dave aint sent me any scrims yet so you cant do the job with out them . no seriously mate custom like that aint worth having i had custys like this a few years ago and just stopped going when they seen me a few months later and asked why i hadnt been i just told them that the way they wanted didnt fit in with my plans . they soon realized it was my terms or no window cleaner ( im the only 1 in this area ) minght be diffrent for you . i did take these back on and they are now good custom and have had me as a cleaner for the last 5 years . they are even waiting until i return to work . so just play it cool mate .
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I think that if you want to build a successful round/business in window cleaning you need to have a solid customer base.
I've been going neally 2 years now. When I first started I would take on almost any job because it was work and money.
But, then I got to a stage where I had work due all over the place... For example I would clean 1 house that was every 8 weeks but clean their next door neighbour every 12 weeks or something silly like that... In the end it just didn't make sense working that way.
Now all of my customers except 3 very large and expensive ones are every 8 weeks. It works like a dream now!
Anyone who wants to break from the 8 week cycle is dumped! As an example the other day I cleaned a house. It was a £35 house which I do every 8 weeks. Customer pays me and says could you just come to me every other time (every 16 weeks) instead... My answer was NO, and she's now deleted from George... I don't want customers who don't want to fit into my round and my way of working!
Andy
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i allways explain i need a round full of regular customers who i know will have them cleaned when i come around, i have bills to pay aswell
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I think that if you want to build a successful round/business in window cleaning you need to have a solid customer base.
I've been going neally 2 years now. When I first started I would take on almost any job because it was work and money.
But, then I got to a stage where I had work due all over the place... For example I would clean 1 house that was every 8 weeks but clean their next door neighbour every 12 weeks or something silly like that... In the end it just didn't make sense working that way.
Now all of my customers except 3 very large and expensive ones are every 8 weeks. It works like a dream now!
Anyone who wants to break from the 8 week cycle is dumped! As an example the other day I cleaned a house. It was a £35 house which I do every 8 weeks. Customer pays me and says could you just come to me every other time (every 16 weeks) instead... My answer was NO, and she's now deleted from George... I don't want customers who don't want to fit into my round and my way of working!
Andy
Andy, you should have said yes but it would be £50/£55 every other time. Money is money at the end of the day and that is the point of having a business and thats to make money.
Simon, number to on your list: why dump them if they want to call you every six months that another customer thats charged a one-off cleaning fee that fits in when you are in the area when they call and it will be a bonus for that clean, think about it.
people that just dump customers I think are mad or richer than me, fair enough it they are a total nightmare, but a good house and good paying customer they can call me when ever they like but they pay a high price for this service and they are told this, then they have three choices either say the way they are (result), call me as and when (result) say no then I have tried to turn the customer to money 2 ways and they said no not my fault, cant talk badly about me ;)
I am not saying I never dump a customer, there are many reasons I do but not in the way above anymore, I must have lost loads over the years listening to that info.
even if you only convert 1 of them out of 10 to call every six months it is still money you would not have had if you just dumped them.
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i had one like this . a few months ago she asked me to clean them i asked if she wanted them cleaning regularly she says yes. do windows takes long time cos their filthy but i dont mind cos it woud be a good price for a regular clean. when im finished she says can you come every two months and can you ring before you come so i can leave gate unlocked yes thats fine i said.
two months later when i phone her she says oh no can you miss me out this time ok i said. next month i was in the area so i knocked on the door and she said oh no thanks not this time ok i said.
next month tried calling her on three seperate days before doing the area she is in no answer so i decide not to bother anymore.
about six months have passed and on thursday she sees me cleaning in her area and asks if i will clean her windows i said that im very sorry but im sticking to my regular customers she says but i only said i didn't want them cleaning one time i overlooked this and just said sorry but i priced the job up to be cleaned regularly and now the windows will be filthy again so i am sticking to my regular customer.
i dont want this sort of customer they are a waste of time i want to know that i have a regular income from customers if they are hit and miss i would rather not bother cos theres always someone whos had a window cleaner mess them about and just wants someone to clean their window regular.
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Tell them you will increase the price if they don`t fit in with the time scale your after,i don`t let the customer dictate to me anymore.I had 1 customer that was every 4 weeks and then she said that she would ring me every 3 months or so when they needed doing,she looked amazed when i said ok the windows will be in a much worse state therefore the new price will be X,can you imagine what state your round would be in if all your customers decieded they wanted to do this,i refuse now point blank about this way of cleaning and say that every 2 months is the longest i`ll leave them apart from the few 3 monthly big paying jobs,once customers know you won`t be messed around they won`t even bother trying it on as they`ll know you just won`t bother coming anymore.The key is to be firm but fair and in my opinion if they want there windows cleaned any longer than 2 months there taking the P***.
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There was a time when I thought some who posted on here dumped customers too readily and my attitude was to cut custies a load of slack.
I was wrong...so wrong.
I know that from time to time I'll get calls from dumped customers wanting a clean....but what's a nice way of saying "you're dumped"?
I'm one of them, i have a quality round because my round is 4 weeks only & my custys know that. I dumped 2 this year because of not this time because i dont offer that service. All mine know what day i will turn up even in the rain & they accept that or find another wc. I set my service & they have the choice if they want it.
If i turn up & they have a good reason either work is being done or about to start that's fine, other wise they get cleaned or they are off my round.
Also if i drop a custy they don't get back on my round.
Macc
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i.ve had a couple of customers said come back in the sping , i have decided that i will not go back it,s much better to give a service to your loyal punters , just knock a few doors and find someone that appreciates you , oh and one of them was a £50.00 job , forget them its their loss
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Prior to an initial clean for a new customer, IF the windows and frames are in a really bad state I will charge double the price to reflect the extra time spent cleaning the job. I ensure the customer is happy with this prior to taking on the work otherwise I won't take on the job, because if the customer is deceitful about wanting their windows cleaned at regular intervals then at least I am not out of pocket because of the extra time spent on the initial clean.
I find this method weeds out the deceitful customers who are only after a quick first & only wash and are simply taking advantage of our trusting nature nowadays.
With regards to dumping customers, I give them all two opportunities to mess me around and on the third time they are dumped because working in small villages word of mouth soon spreads that you are a soft touch and before you know it you would have a full round of customers messing you around with every excuse under the sun. Be firm but be fair. It works both ways but at the end of the day you are running your business, not your customers.
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I have no where near a full round but it is in an area where I no longer use my saving's to live and buy treats..
If I were to turn up to a job and was turned away (silly excuse like rain) I would explain the situation that I do not work like that ,should the customer still wish to continue their objection..I would walk away....and then try to gain a replacement customer.
I have been very lucky so far....only had 2 try this...1 has been dropped (pita customer) and the other saw my point and is still with us.
For those of us who are not full and each individual customer is really needed ....we need to be very careful not to get too quick off the mark ....I dropped 10 a\c's this year...made some very basic mistakes with customer care....
We need customers and our reputations can be tarnished very easily...Word of mouth spreads faster when it's a slagging off....
Dave.
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I don't operate a round system. I have a customer list made up of everyone who has ever used me wheather thats once or every 4 weeks and I try to fit in everyone who calls my phone for Interior, exterior and gutters. I have probably said this on here before but there just isn't a tradition of domestic window cleaning rounds in my area. I find that it gives me a bit more control on price, i can change it whenever I want and depending on how busy I am I can upsell interiors. Downside is that I have to market continually to keep busy particularly in the winter( about 15/20 hours a week flyers and door knocking). I do have commercial rounds that keep me going year round. I can see the points being made but in my area I would be a very quite w/c if I relied on only serving my regular customers.
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made some very basic mistakes with customer care....
Would be interested to hear what you did wrong if you are willing to share? I am just 3 months into it and would like to avoid as many problems as possible.
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dumped one before i even started his windows! no access to the rear of his house except through the garage he said call me and i will pop back from work and let you in , i fitted him into the round called him to arrange access he says nah call me tommorow and do them then a messer from the start
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I had one like that too. Quoted him £14.00 including his front door. He wanted the lot for a tenner. I said no, then he wanted the door dropping off the job. I said £13.00 without the door. Rang him to arrange access for his first clean and got the 'miss me off this time'. Said sure but deleted him off as soon as I got home.
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You can sometimes see the signs before you start. If you canvass a road and find they all have a window cleaner then right in the middle up pops one who hasn't had one for ages.
There is always the suspicion that she's been dumped by the previous/existing window cleaner for whatever reason.
This unfortunately is the nature of canvassing and building a round. When you get a new customer you don't know their history so you are going to get a higher percentage of time wasters. In time you can drop them but when you are starting out you may decide to put up with it.
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davids3511...You asked what some of my very basic mistakes were...
I give all my new clients terms & conditions....Which I started to think of as a concrete contract...but in truth terms and condition are really only good as leverage in the event of an issue...they are not law....
I became very grumpy at one stage and started to think that they needed me more than I need them...
I had a complaint from one person and the g/f took the call when I arrived home I was tired and cranky...once the g/f told me she had aranged for me to return the following friday and rectify the issue (if there was one)...I got on the phone and told them I would not return and they could find another cleaner...
Now this all seems very obvious now...but I now will not return a call of this nature today...I now leave it until tomorrow...lets me cool down and think.
I started to take it all a little too personally and I have said this before...I still have an issue being a window cleaner(I know...please don't flame me) and I think I let my ego get the better of me from time to time....I am now seeing window cleaning in a much more positive light now that I am not using savings to live and now that the business is doing much better.
I liken this game to farming....finding good ground, planting seeds, nuturing, feeding, watering (no pun), weeding, more weeding....rotating crops, times, dates.....and of course harvesting...some yields, area's, crops produce better than others and you get the occassional whopper!!
Above all I now see that I am a small business that is growing and not the image in my head which was that of an elderly guy struggling by to get beer money and enough for a few bets and smokes.
But in the end the thing that has pulled me through the most is this forum and the many great and not so great members...there is a lot of nonesense and alot of good info too...just a case of weeding through it !!!..
Oh yes one other piece of advice if you are going to buy anything from another forum member....check them out first and get all their details and I mean all...!!
Cheers
Dave.
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Hi Pingu
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I already recognize myself falling into some of these traps. It is getting a little better for me now that I have finished nearly all my first cleans, had about 100 to do in the last 5 weeks I was totally sick of them and getting very demotivated.
Spent some time doing second cleans of Thursday and Friday and I flew through them. I am actually looking forward to work on Monday.
David
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I think there are times when we need to be firm. I bet 50% of my customers would be happy if I only came round every 3 months. Many monthly customers wouldn't know their windows had been cleaned, if you didn't leave a slip.
An agreement is an agreement, and both parties should honour it.
If I am told to leave them this month, I ask them if they would prefer to go on my bi-monthly list at +50%.
If they break our agreement, it will be at extra cost to them, that is if they want to remain a customer.
I am much more tolerant if it's a well priced job, and they are good payers.
If you were doing a street of shop fronts, and one of them starts messing you about, you would have to decide if you really want another cleaner to do them, and compete with you. Dai
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Andy, you should have said yes but it would be £50/£55 every other time. Money is money at the end of the day and that is the point of having a business and thats to make money.
The problem with my customer wanting to go to every other time is that when it comes to every other time I won't have time to do it as she will be an extra on that day, and it's not worth travelling 10 miles there and 10 miles home again just to do her windows on a different day.
Money is money that is true... And obviously I am in it to make money... But a good succuessful profitable window cleaning business should be founded on a solid reliable customer base.
Andy
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Andy, you should have said yes but it would be £50/£55 every other time. Money is money at the end of the day and that is the point of having a business and thats to make money.
The problem with my customer wanting to go to every other time is that when it comes to every other time I won't have time to do it as she will be an extra on that day, and it's not worth travelling 10 miles there and 10 miles home again just to do her windows on a different day.
Money is money that is true... And obviously I am in it to make money... But a good succuessful profitable window cleaning business should be founded on a solid reliable customer base.
Andy
I agree with the last bit, but what says these customers are not going to be reliable. We all run our business' in different ways that work for us, I myself always leave room for cleans that are one-off because I offer this services and get quite a few of them, that part is not a solid foundation but is extra that helps my business grow as my name is being talked about more.
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Thats the difference between an ideal world and real life. We would all like to have reliable customers but most of us have to make do with what we have. Most of mine are pretty good but others I just put up with because I want their money.
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Hi Vince that has got to be the best and most concise answer on this subject...I tend to ramble...but that was class...
Dave.
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Lets be honest we all get awkward situations from time to time and we all get the "oh not this time "please merchants from time to time. How we handle these situations is down to how we all run our own businesses. Flexibilty goes a long way, but it has to be from both sides, the custies and the people running the business.
IMO alot of this can be sorted out at point of quote :) First Question "what regularity are you looking for?" 99% of the time I am then asked, how often do you come to this area? You can then take it from there and come to an agreement. Written quote with terms which you give to custie and keep a copy yourself.
Sometimes custies don't keep to the agreement, but you have to take into account why they have dipped out of their scheduled clean? a) Have a funeral wake here when you are due....... ok you can live with that one and then carry on as normal from the next time of their schedule.....b) Oh i don't want them done this time as you arrive to clean... ok for one time, but keep an eye on these, get their phone number (saves a vehicle journey) and when you are next due phone the day before, if you get a yes all is ok, if you get a no.......send letter with copy of the original quote. words to the effect, I have enclosed the original agreement between us, which says that you are on a 6 weekly schedule. You windows have not been cleaned since....... at your request. We have to take this that you wish to come away from the agreed 6 weekly schedule and we will now adjust our records. We do offer an appointment only service, which starts from £xxxx, but will be quoted at each request. Please allow at least 5 working days notice for this service. Please note that during busy periods of the year, this service may not be available. Has worked with some and they are now back on their original terms, and others have not contacted us, but driving past their properties it is clear they have not found someone else. Be fair but be firm, don't be taken for a mug, but don't cut your nose off to spite your face ;D
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I think it's quite ironic that one of the most frequent complaints that I hear from customers is that their previous window cleaner(s) have been unreliable - such as only showing up a few times before disappearing into the sunset. However, the the most frequent complaint about customers seems to be that THEY are unreliable too. :)
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If a customer is difficult, I either drop them or do a very quick job on their windows each time I go after that. I get paid the same for less work. Their loss! If I turn up to do a job and for no good reason they say leave it I charge them for turning up. £3 if it's a small house or £5 for a larger one. They don't like it but why should I lose out? I don't mind customers who want it done, as and when. I point out to them that I will nedd a couple of weeks notice so that I can fit them in when it is convenient for me and that they will have to pay extra depending on how dirty the windows are. Seems to work fine.
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This job gets you down at times. Most of us are a little cranky from spending too much time on our own and having too much time to think about things ( twitch twitch).
Little things get all out of proportion. To the customer you are just the window cleaner and its no big deal.
To you its "Look lady I've got bills to pay, mouths to feed, my kids need new shoes and in case you hadn't noticed its only a few weeks to Christmas. I lost two days last week with the rain and half a day when my pump packed up. WHAT DO YOU MEAN NOT THIS TIME??"
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This job gets you down at times. Most of us are a little cranky from spending too much time on our own and having too much time to think about things ( twitch twitch).
Little things get all out of proportion. To the customer you are just the window cleaner and its no big deal.
To you its "Look lady I've got bills to pay, mouths to feed, my kids need new shoes and in case you hadn't noticed its only a few weeks to Christmas. I lost two days last week with the rain and half a day when my pump packed up. WHAT DO YOU MEAN NOT THIS TIME??"
Back of the net Vince.
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I think it's quite ironic that one of the most frequent complaints that I hear from customers is that their previous window cleaner(s) have been unreliable - such as only showing up a few times before disappearing into the sunset. However, the the most frequent complaint about customers seems to be that THEY are unreliable too. :)
As soon as we hear that one, warning bells begin to ring ;D We joke with people that they will probably get fed up with us being so regular!!!! ;D
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i.ve had a couple of customers said come back in the sping , i have decided that i will not go back it,s much better to give a service to your loyal punters , just knock a few doors and find someone that appreciates you , oh and one of them was a £50.00 job , forget them its their loss
i agree,i just tell them i,me to busy and pass them on to another wc
mike]
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i agree,i just tell them i,me to busy and pass them on to another wc
mike]
If it's a rubbish customer why give another poor unsuspecting w/c the aggro? ;D
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initiation ceremiony
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initiation ceremiony
lol