Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: stuartb on November 14, 2007, 06:55:51 pm
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About to buy my pole system and I just wondered how you cope with the hose straddling across the pavment and pedestrians and customers potentially tripping over it? Can this be a real problem?
Cheers
Stuart
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About to buy my pole system and I just wondered how you cope with the hose straddling across the pavment and pedestrians and customers potentially tripping over it? Can this be a real problem?
Cheers
Stuart
Make sure you have trip hazard signs is the simplae answer for that
Can take a pic of mine if you want to see one, I also have about 6 others, when you get them make sure you get good ones as the cheap ones just blow over
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Use you judgement? if there is to much foot traffic then don't put a hose out, use a backpack! if OK then put cones out
Andy
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Their are many measures you can take like using mini/microbore hose that is usually bright yellow so is highly visable
Place the hose out of the way of people the best you can and use warning signs
Dean
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Use you judgement? if there is to much foot traffic then don't put a hose out, use a backpack! if OK then put cones out
Andy
I uses hoses where ever, I have signs people tend to croos the road or do a weird shuffle
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Unless it's upstairs job, don't use wfp at all.
It's quicker and easier to squeegee shops.
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Unless it's upstairs job, don't use wfp at all.
It's quicker and easier to squeegee shops.
Sry squeaks to reply to every post but I disagree sometimes and have to add my thoughts, do everything wfp, I have shops and they are way quicker with wfp, one window maybe not, then again I go for bif jobs not small.
do only upstairs wfp as IMO you are telling the customer you are not 100% sure about what you are doing (going to get stick for saying that, but then I say what I think and thats it)
GO WFP DO WFP not sure about it, dont do it, a half hearted business is not a good business to be in.
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You can see my hose protected by the rubber, its the type you see at temporary traffic lights by LUX, I just cut the channel wider so my hose fitted.
I only use it across footpaths if its a busy area.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/HS.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/HS1.jpg)
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You can see my hose protected by the rubber, its the type you see at temporary traffic lights by LUX, I just cut the channel wider so my hose fitted.
I only use it across footpaths if its a busy area.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/HS.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k23/jeffo_01/HS1.jpg)
Jeff, where do you get that from, or should I not ask, I need some of this asap.
cheers
Ian
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It's quicker and easier to squeegee shops.
Sry squeaks to reply to every post but I disagree sometimes and have to add my thoughts, do everything wfp, I have shops and they are way quicker with wfp, one window maybe not, then again I go for bif jobs not small.
Nah, sorry.
Only if you're crap with a squeegee. ;)
Trad:
Clean window, grab bucket, walk for a few seconds to next window, clean window.
WFP:
Get out of van, pull brush and hose out, clean window, put brush and hose back in again, get back in van, drive to next job avoiding traffic, get out, pull hose and brush out, finally clean next shop.
By then I've done 3 or 4! ;D
No contest, sorry.
And it leaves a clean shiny dry shop and not a wet mess!
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It's quicker and easier to squeegee shops.
Sry squeaks to reply to every post but I disagree sometimes and have to add my thoughts, do everything wfp, I have shops and they are way quicker with wfp, one window maybe not, then again I go for bif jobs not small.
Nah, sorry.
Only if you're crap with a squeegee. ;)
Trad:
Clean window, grab bucket, walk for a few seconds to next window, clean window.
WFP:
Get out of van, pull brush and hose out, clean window, put brush and hose back in again, get back in van, drive to next job avoiding traffic, get out, pull hose and brush out, finally clean next shop.
By then I've done 3 or 4! ;D
No contest, sorry.
And it leaves a clean shiny dry shop and not a wet mess!
Sqeaks you most be gwetting old m8, I am very quick with a sqeegee.
if you do top wfp downs trad, IMO it gives mixed messages to your customers, I seem to remember you had problems with your customers about wfp could be worng, if you did this is the reason, I have been timing the time wfp against blading, wfp is quicker as you do all the frame.
Trad do you clean all the frame down stairs??
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do only upstairs wfp as IMO you are telling the customer you are not 100% sure about what you are doing (going to get stick for saying that, but then I say what I think and thats it)
GO WFP DO WFP not sure about it, dont do it, a half hearted business is not a good business to be in.
here we go again ::) ::)
if you do WFP just upstairs you can keep the customer happy with your system and your not running a half hearted business
a rather unimpformed comment, a comment that other might take at face value and feel they MUST do WFP up and down , which is just wrong, many people do WFP up and trad down, they use the WFP as a safe way to clean upstairs windows, nothing wrong in that
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It's quicker and easier to squeegee shops.
Sry squeaks to reply to every post but I disagree sometimes and have to add my thoughts, do everything wfp, I have shops and they are way quicker with wfp, one window maybe not, then again I go for bif jobs not small.
Nah, sorry.
Only if you're crap with a squeegee. ;)
Trad:
Clean window, grab bucket, walk for a few seconds to next window, clean window.
WFP:
Get out of van, pull brush and hose out, clean window, put brush and hose back in again, get back in van, drive to next job avoiding traffic, get out, pull hose and brush out, finally clean next shop.
By then I've done 3 or 4! ;D
No contest, sorry.
And it leaves a clean shiny dry shop and not a wet mess!
Sqeaks you most be gwetting old m8, I am very quick with a sqeegee.
if you do top wfp downs trad, IMO it gives mixed messages to your customers, I seem to remember you had problems with your customers about wfp could be worng, if you did this is the reason, I have been timing the time wfp against blading, wfp is quicker as you do all the frame.
Trad do you clean all the frame down stairs??
I don't do tops only. ???
I was talking about shops, which seemed to be the topic, as he was talking about pedestrians.
On shops trad is miles quicker because of the long process as I described above.
It also looks better.
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funny how when some people have been wfp only a couple of months they become experts on it and tell everyone else how hey should be doing it
.
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It's quicker and easier to squeegee shops.
Sry squeaks to reply to every post but I disagree sometimes and have to add my thoughts, do everything wfp, I have shops and they are way quicker with wfp, one window maybe not, then again I go for bif jobs not small.
Nah, sorry.
Only if you're crap with a squeegee. ;)
Trad:
Clean window, grab bucket, walk for a few seconds to next window, clean window.
WFP:
Get out of van, pull brush and hose out, clean window, put brush and hose back in again, get back in van, drive to next job avoiding traffic, get out, pull hose and brush out, finally clean next shop.
By then I've done 3 or 4! ;D
No contest, sorry.
And it leaves a clean shiny dry shop and not a wet mess!
Sqeaks you most be gwetting old m8, I am very quick with a sqeegee.
if you do top wfp downs trad, IMO it gives mixed messages to your customers, I seem to remember you had problems with your customers about wfp could be worng, if you did this is the reason, I have been timing the time wfp against blading, wfp is quicker as you do all the frame.
Trad do you clean all the frame down stairs??
I don't do tops only. ???
I was talking about shops, which seemed to be the topic, as he was talking about pedestrians.
On shops trad is miles quicker because of the long process as I described above.
It also looks better.
shops yes can be quicker, depending on the size of the shop though.
i must have misread soewhere thought you said you do top only (and miss the top of frame out (my mistake for the first bit)
One point why does trad look better, I think wfp look far more professional. so do people I work for cleaning.
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funny how when some people have been wfp only a couple of months they become experts on it and tell everyone else how hey should be doing it
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if that was aimed at me, I am no way an expert, and I have been a month nearly, I just see every day the results, the errors, that I do also the guy that works for me do, so to many I do know quite a bit, I did know alot about certain parts before I started, but everyday I learn new things.
I never tell people to do it my way, I give my opinion, and for some this is an asset, post that give nothing are a waste of time IMO
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This topic goes back to 2005 but arguments are still valid and it applies to all the highway not just the pavements, its over on pros in the A-Z section under Trip hazards by Tom Farr heres the direct link- Its a 3 page topic. http://www.another forum.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2.2/YaBB.pl?num=1129901650/ Hmm still blocked by admin so you will have to make your own way there, if anyones interested I could copy and paste the whole 3 pages ;D
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One point why does trad look better, I think wfp look far more professional. so do people I work for cleaning.
Oh come off it. ::) ;D
You surely aren't serious?
You do a shop and leave it covered in wet spots and a big puddle on the pavement.
I'll do one and leave it sparkling and perfectly see-through with no puddles.
Hmmm...which one looks better? ;D
Don't get caught in the hype.
It's a great tool, it's faster on upstairs windows, and it's easier usually.
It's not tidier on presentation though.
It's not the be all and end all.
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Shops WFP:
Start 07:30.
Don Backpack.
Grab small pole.
Wash,Wash,wash. Rinse, rinse, rinse........Next shop.
Do about 7 small shop fronts in half hour.
By 09:00 when they open theres hardly any noticeable droplets on them.
David
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About to buy my pole system and I just wondered how you cope with the hose straddling across the pavment and pedestrians and customers potentially tripping over it? Can this be a real problem?
Cheers
Stuart
I have a piece of half inch hose attached to the van mount (or van DI unit). This piece of hose is cut so that it's usually long enough to span the footpath. I then lay rubber matting over it. I connect the other end up to the hosereel that I've removed from the van. Doing it this way allows me to be in attendance until I've made the situation safe. I used to have a much shorter piece of hose to patch between tank and reel. I used to pull the hose out as far as I needed it THEN cover the hose with rubber matting. However, by doing it that way, I had to pull the hose out before covering it which meant there was a brief time when the hose was uncovered and unattended.
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Ian that channelling is an older version of this I think. http://www.vulcascot.co.uk/index.php?pg=51
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I use wfp on about 80% of my work but still trad all my shops as i dont want people trailling water into these shops and me getting the blame and to be honest it is far quicker to trad the shops i have as access with hose and pole is poor i also trad many bungalows for similar reasons wfp is a tool as is my squeegee all used to good effect in the right situation and all knowledge gained through my hard earned experience
Dean
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if the shop is away from my van and i didn't use a trolley i always ran the hose along the gutter and put out a couple of safety signs where it bisects the path.
If you are worried about someone trying to claim of you, buy a disposable camera (and keep in van at all times) or use another camera and take a photo of each job you do for the record.
It's easy to try and make a claim but much harder to prove it is you at fault.
You could also:
clean earlier in the day when there are few people about
be splash happy with the water when cleaning, so people avoid you.
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This topic goes back to 2005 but arguments are still valid and it applies to all the highway not just the pavements, its over on pros in the A-Z section under Trip hazards by Tom Farr heres the direct link- Its a 3 page topic. http://www.another forum.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2.2/YaBB.pl?num=1129901650/ Hmm still blocked by admin so you will have to make your own way there, if anyones interested I could copy and paste the whole 3 pages ;D
could you paste it on here or email me the link please.
cheers
Ian
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One point why does trad look better, I think wfp look far more professional. so do people I work for cleaning.
Oh come off it. ::) ;D
You surely aren't serious?
You do a shop and leave it covered in wet spots and a big puddle on the pavement.
I'll do one and leave it sparkling and perfectly see-through with no puddles.
Hmmm...which one looks better? ;D
Don't get caught in the hype.
It's a great tool, it's faster on upstairs windows, and it's easier usually.
It's not tidier on presentation though.
It's not the be all and end all.
It depends on the shop, I've actually picked up some because the potential customer loves the fact that their frames are all washed down every time the windows are cleaned...and as for trad being quicker...rog, you know I am not slow with a squeegee, and I'll also lay money that I'm faster than you with a pole too, I have a very good technique, but I wouldn't stand a chance of getting the amount of shops done that I do if I didn't use WFP.
There are certainly times when Trad is quicker and more efficient, and in those cases my squeegee is out like a flash.
If I had just the shops that you do then I too would probably use trad, partly because of the time of day you have to do them...then again, depending on what I was doing that day, I'd come out early, WFP the outsides and pop back later to do the insides of the pubs.
When I lay out my hose I try to ensure that it's easily visible, although in town I'm generally not too worried as I start about 6.30am and there aree very few people about at that time in the morning...
On domestic I just drag the hose out, try and ensure that it goes straight across pavements and so on and isn't all looped and straggly...I go straight across roads too, so far never had a problem (over 3 years remember)
Time I was cleaning shops!
Ian
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The day my wfp system was being fitted, I did a bit of work with a window cleaner wfp, like an induction course. He does probably about half the shops in Grantham. He was only about 3 or 4 mins per shop from stopping to driving off. There was no way I could have been any where near as fast. He didn't bother with trip hazard signs though. Just used really small air hose and said it wasn't much of a trip hazard.
I would still personally trad in the middle of the day, but wfp early in the morning.
Simon.
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It depends on the shop, I've actually picked up some because the potential customer loves the fact that their frames are all washed down every time the windows are cleaned...and as for trad being quicker...rog, you know I am not slow with a squeegee, and I'll also lay money that I'm faster than you with a pole too, I have a very good technique, but I wouldn't stand a chance of getting the amount of shops done that I do if I didn't use WFP.
Ian
Yes, and you've also had a few of your customers ask me, because they don't like wfp!
No way is wfp quicker shops to shop either.
On each pane maybe slightly on some, but not as whole, not a chance.
There's far more to do as I mentioned earlier with setting up, packing away, and most importantly moving the van.
By the time you've messed about like that I've done 3 or 4 shops.
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i think both sides of argument can be right i dont do shops any more and squeeks is right in saying some shops wouldnt want water all over windows and floors but i could also see how a trolley system with a small hose and small pole could be extremely fast on shops and the advantage of frames washed would also be beneficial, so really just do what you think works best far you as long as the windows are clean and the customer is happy then great.
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One point why does trad look better, I think wfp look far more professional. so do people I work for cleaning.
Oh come off it. ::) ;D
You surely aren't serious?
You do a shop and leave it covered in wet spots and a big puddle on the pavement.
I'll do one and leave it sparkling and perfectly see-through with no puddles.
Hmmm...which one looks better? ;D
Don't get caught in the hype.
It's a great tool, it's faster on upstairs windows, and it's easier usually.
It's not tidier on presentation though.
It's not the be all and end all.
It depends on the shop, I've actually picked up some because the potential customer loves the fact that their frames are all washed down every time the windows are cleaned...and as for trad being quicker...rog, you know I am not slow with a squeegee, and I'll also lay money that I'm faster than you with a pole too, I have a very good technique, but I wouldn't stand a chance of getting the amount of shops done that I do if I didn't use WFP.
There are certainly times when Trad is quicker and more efficient, and in those cases my squeegee is out like a flash.
If I had just the shops that you do then I too would probably use trad, partly because of the time of day you have to do them...then again, depending on what I was doing that day, I'd come out early, WFP the outsides and pop back later to do the insides of the pubs.
When I lay out my hose I try to ensure that it's easily visible, although in town I'm generally not too worried as I start about 6.30am and there aree very few people about at that time in the morning...
On domestic I just drag the hose out, try and ensure that it goes straight across pavements and so on and isn't all looped and straggly...I go straight across roads too, so far never had a problem (over 3 years remember)
Time I was cleaning shops!
Ian
Funnily enough I will be starting a shop front this weekend with WFP. There is solid glass above the front which needs to be done with WFP as there is no place to rest a ladder. Obviously the water will run down so it means the shop front needs to be done with WFP as well. It's an potentially awkward situation as the shop's window cleaner put me onto it. He cleans thwe lower part trad once a week and I do the lot every two months. Due to the weekly application of detergent, it means that WFP may not work so well. Therefore, I will be doing it early at the weekends and he is switching his cleaning day to Monday in case of quality problems. Obviously I can't go for quoting the lot each week as this would not really be on. Anyway, I will be doing it before many people are about and I will be armed with a spray bottle with alcohol based liquid in case of freezing. It will mean having to drive on the path for a way as well so it will be an early job for that reason too.
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One point why does trad look better, I think wfp look far more professional. so do people I work for cleaning.
Oh come off it. ::) ;D
You surely aren't serious?
You do a shop and leave it covered in wet spots and a big puddle on the pavement.
I'll do one and leave it sparkling and perfectly see-through with no puddles.
Hmmm...which one looks better? ;D
Don't get caught in the hype.
It's a great tool, it's faster on upstairs windows, and it's easier usually.
It's not tidier on presentation though.
It's not the be all and end all.
GO for it Squeaky ;D
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This topic goes back to 2005 but arguments are still valid and it applies to all the highway not just the pavements, its over on pros in the A-Z section under Trip hazards by Tom Farr heres the direct link- Its a 3 page topic. http://www.another forum.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2.2/YaBB.pl?num=1129901650/ Hmm still blocked by admin so you will have to make your own way there, if anyones interested I could copy and paste the whole 3 pages ;D
could you paste it on here or email me the link please.
cheers
Ian
Ian the link is as above but just replace anotherforum with cleaning pros (oneword) . email sent. sorry it took so long.
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This topic goes back to 2005 but arguments are still valid and it applies to all the highway not just the pavements, its over on pros in the A-Z section under Trip hazards by Tom Farr heres the direct link- Its a 3 page topic. http://www.another forum.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2.2/YaBB.pl?num=1129901650/ Hmm still blocked by admin so you will have to make your own way there, if anyones interested I could copy and paste the whole 3 pages ;D
could you paste it on here or email me the link please.
cheers
Ian
Ian the link is as above but just replace anotherforum with cleaning pros (oneword) . email sent. sorry it took so long.
got the email many thanks ;)
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Heres some bits..
Tom Farr
We have always tried to lay hoses safely in gutters and only cross pavements in a straight line with safety/hazard signs clearly visible.
The attached letter of complaint from our local council has resulted in us needing to use mats to cover hoses when crossing pavements/walkways in addition to existing safety signs. The letter states that section 149 of the Highways Act 1980 gives legal powers to the council to "remove any items which form an obstruction/danger on the public highway" as well as to recover the expenses involved in such removal.
We thought we had H&S fully covered with risk assessments, method statements, hi-vis jackets, yellow hoses, safety signs, vehicle beacon, etc - but apparently not. A telephone discussion with the local highways officer suggested mats to cover hoses as the solution and has phoned again today wanting to know why we have not started using them. (We have now but they only arrived last night!)
The local HSE office have also phoned today with a complaint about our hoses being a trip hazard and said it was a new one on them but the office had discussed it and were suggesting mats as the solution to the trip hazard. They were reassured by the action which we had taken.
Please note 70% of our work is on RESIDENTIAL houses - so this is not an issue just for COMMERCIAL situations.
J wrote on Oct 21st, 2005, 2:47pm:
I wonder if this beaurocratic letter has set a precedent nationally or is it down to each Local Authority to implement indivudually.
Tom I notice that he is complaining about the "footway of the highway" so do you see it as being OK to just use mats wherever the hose crosses the path, or does the road need matting as well ?
This is going to slow the job down a lot. Does anyone make polystyrene light and fast mats ?
From my conversations with Bristol Council this applies to anywhere on the "highway" where the trip hazard exists. Crossing a junction would be included as this is a "walkway". More information is needed to know the full impact. However the call today from the local HSE office shows it needs taking seriously.
We have purchased mats like these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mat-rubber-backed-washable-magic-mat-dirttrapper-10x3_W...
Tom
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Ian that channelling is an older version of this I think. http://www.vulcascot.co.uk/index.php?pg=51
I got mine from a guy on a building site, were there were tempory traffic lights, I had a 6' piece off him.
I just got chatting to him and asked him if I could have a piece, took it home and cut it into a 4' & 2' lenght, got my circular saw and widened the channel so my hose fitted in, I use the 2' bit for a public footpath 4' bit for wider paths and both of them together across a road.
Stops people tripping over, and saves your hose when its in the road.
In my picture were my hose goes across the road, a couple of doors down on the right is a H&S officer for the local council.
I never knew this until he introduced himeself, when he came home one day and drove over my rubber protector, he just came over and started chatting about what I had done with the signs and the ramp, the only thing he told me was it should be one complete lenght and not two. ::) across a road?