Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Sir Squeaky on November 14, 2007, 04:56:41 pm
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What's going to happen when we get freezing conditions?
All the water left on peoples driveways and patios is going to create an ice-rink.
I really don't want to have a phone call from an irate bloke after his wife had broken her leg. :(
I assume it's just a day or two off then?
Won't hurt because we only get a few days below zero.
But what do you do?
Please don't say "put salt or grit down" ::)
You can't pour that on people's property.
We didn't do it before wfp, so that's a surefire way to get sacked.
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I'm sort of assuming that people don't venture onto their patios in sub-zero temperatures and as for the driveways....if it's icy it's icy and people should naturally take care.
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Last year I put down salt....why not?
If I remember there was a debate last year which was that putting down salt is admitting liability or something of the like...
Dave.
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I'm sort of assuming that people don't venture onto their patios in sub-zero temperatures and as for the driveways....if it's icy it's icy and people should naturally take care.
Well that's a sackable attitude!
Last year I put down salt....why not?
If I remember there was a debate last year which was that putting down salt is admitting liability or something of the like...
Dave.
Why not? :o
If I was the customer I wouldn't want someone pouring salt on my property.
I'd sack you as well.
Any sensible suggestions anyone? ???
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hello squeaky,
i usually trad the bits that are icy mate, get your ladders back out you know you want to really!
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I've got one of those rubber brush/squeegie things in my van to get the water away from front doors etc.
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Yes listen to advice, its all been mentioned.
Or take your own advice dont work.
Why do you ask questions if you only want the answers "you" want to hear
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I'm sort of assuming that people don't venture onto their patios in sub-zero temperatures and as for the driveways....if it's icy it's icy and people should naturally take care.
Well that's a sackable attitude!
Last year I put down salt....why not?
If I remember there was a debate last year which was that putting down salt is admitting liability or something of the like...
Dave.
Why not? :o
If I was the customer I wouldn't want someone pouring salt on my property.
I'd sack you as well.
Any sensible suggestions anyone? ???
I will be putting salt down if I find it a problem, Squeaky, why do you knock peoples reply's they may be trying to help you, If I put salt down my customers would be happy I care for there well being. if my customer ask about this and I am sure they will I will say I would put a little salt down if needbe, if they are me not to then I will not do it.
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Yes listen to advice, its all been mentioned.
Or take your own advice dont work.
Why do you ask questions if you only want the answers "you" want to hear
Should have known you'd criticise again. ::)
I haven't got something "I want to hear", I just wanted to know if there was anything people did about it.
I've got one of those rubber brush/squeegie things in my van to get the water away from front doors etc.
That's a good one Dave.
A professional answer. ;)
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Rog
you are just arrogant and its not just me who notices.
Dave
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I will be putting salt down if I find it a problem, Squeaky, why do you knock peoples reply's they may be trying to help you, If I put salt down my customers would be happy I care for there well being. if my customer ask about this and I am sure they will I will say I would put a little salt down if needbe, if they are me not to then I will not do it.
They didn't have salt poured on their house before I changed them to wfp, so that's going to really make their minds up isn't it?
It's a house, not a plate of cod and chips.
Very unprofessional looking. :-\
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Rog
you are just arrogant and its not just me who notices.
Dave
What? Just because I actually give a toss about my customers? ???
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I will be putting salt down if I find it a problem, Squeaky, why do you knock peoples reply's they may be trying to help you, If I put salt down my customers would be happy I care for there well being. if my customer ask about this and I am sure they will I will say I would put a little salt down if needbe, if they are me not to then I will not do it.
They didn't have salt poured on their house before I changed them to wfp, so that's going to really make their minds up isn't it?
It's a house, not a plate of cod and chips.
Very unprofessional looking. :-\
Are you off your rocker ????? this is a professional thing to do, you really are a loon sometimes, Cod and Chips...... Have you been drinking shandy again?
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How can it be professional to be employed to clean windows and pour messy looking grit over their drive or path? ??? ;D
Maybe in some run-down areas they may not care, but my customers with standards certainly would.
What a mess.
Like a cowboy builder would leave.
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How can it be professional to be employed to clean windows and pour messy looking grit over their drive or path? ??? ;D
Maybe in some run-down areas they may not care, but my customers with standards certainly would.
What a mess.
Like a cowboy builder would leave.
A cowboy would do nothing to protect his customers, Sqeakys I have many very large properties on my books, and they would not mind me doing it, maybe it is the way you go about things, if you are doing it for there saftey then what is the problem????
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If the water is going to freeze then go home because it will be to cold to work anyway man, the only time you should worry is when you have finished the last jobs and the water will freeze and even then turn the water down and it will only run down the brick work of the building EASY really
Andy
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Rog at one point you used to be amusing ....now the more nonesense you spout the bigger fool you make me feel you are.
I think the best bet for me is to leave you be and not try to have any dialogue with you.
Dave.
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I will also put salt down if its looking like its gonna freeze.
I didnt put salt down before I went WFP because I never left his amount of water on the floor :-\
Altho........ I like the idea of the brush.
Bob
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I will also put salt down if its looking like its gonna freeze.
I didnt put salt down before I went WFP because I never left his amount of water on the floor :-\
Altho........ I like the idea of the brush.
Bob
Exactly my point Bod.
It's going really p*ss people off.
Rog at one point you used to be amusing ....now the more nonesense you spout the bigger fool you make me feel you are.
I think the best bet for me is to leave you be and not try to have any dialogue with you.
Dave.
I haven't said any nonsense.
I hope a customer doesn't skid on your lovely grit...
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I put down a light sprinkling of road salt, we are not talking about shovel fulls of the stuff for goodness sake!!
And you only need put it down on areas that are likely to be walked upon.
Roger is talking complete cobblers, I can only assume he's doing it to try and wind up people.
you really do only need a light spread of the stuff too, and I really do mean a light spread. I've never had a single complaint from any customer, commercial or domestic over it's use.
Ian
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I will also put salt down if its looking like its gonna freeze.
I didnt put salt down before I went WFP because I never left his amount of water on the floor :-\
Altho........ I like the idea of the brush.
Bob
Exactly my point Bod.
It's going really p*ss people off.
Rog at one point you used to be amusing ....now the more nonesense you spout the bigger fool you make me feel you are.
I think the best bet for me is to leave you be and not try to have any dialogue with you.
Dave.
I haven't said any nonsense.
I hope a customer doesn't skid on your lovely grit...
Squeaky, not every one thinks the same as you m8, what you are saying is that it would p you off, maybe all of your customers will be happy, again I say think out of the box.
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Suppose the best way is to ask the customer before you lay the salt.
Im sure they would prefer salt to a slippery surface. The salt will dissolve anyway so it wont be messy.
Bob
Ps Can we all try and stop pssin each other off.
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Alright, don't bother then. ::)
All I asked was what to do about it, and I only got 1 answer!
Cheers DaveW.
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most customers dont mind the salt but the slugs can get a bit snotty about it ;D
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Hey Rog.
Do you sometimes wonder if its worth posting on here?
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Now now girls....bad day? ;D
Now listen very carefully as i will say this only once....
It's cold...it's icy...Jack Frost is all around....footpaths are slippery....
....sensible people tread warily whether the w/c has been or not...
Or are your customers simpletons?
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Tell the customer that the water could turn to ice at some stage if it gets cold and therefore they should be careful if they need to venture outside. But if it does get that bad, I would be off home after all the last thing any of us need is claims direct and the like on our case.
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I see what your saying squeeks, the road rock salt will look a little messy on someones path.
what I did was to go to tesco's and buy a large bag of cooking salt, lightly sprinkle this on the path, no ice and no mess to look at.
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Tell the customer that the water could turn to ice at some stage if it gets cold and therefore they should be careful if they need to venture outside. But if it does get that bad, I would be off home after all the last thing any of us need is claims direct and the like on our case.
Spot-on Mike. Mind you the custy would have an impossible task proving it was "your" bit of ice he/she slipped on!
What's more important is US slipping on the ice and breaking wrists, elbows etc...
Had a trip today concentrating on the glass rather than where i was stepping...no real damage except a twisted ankle :(
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Hi
I've been told that ordinary road salt will damage customer's paving.
Spruce.
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Thing is, If its that icey then wouldnt the water freeze in the tube and on the brush before it even hit the floor?
Steve
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I reckon if it's that cold the custy won't be galloping around the garden much, but they will need to use the front path and so will everyone else, so with the kind of society we live in now we will soon get the blame if someone skates and breaks a leg etc. I like Jeffs idea but i might be raiding one of those yellow grit bins soon - just in case. The way i see it most houses will have a problem area a couple of feet in front of the front door and maybe the garage?
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rog
this is what i have done
if its really cold, stay home, who wants to work in that kind of temp
i normally start a little later than the norm, i wait till the sun comes out and then the temp creeps up ( anything above 2 C and ive found its ok )
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rog
this is what i have done
if its really cold, stay home, who wants to work in that kind of temp
i normally start a little later than the norm, i wait till the sun comes out and then the temp creeps up ( anything above 2 C and ive found its ok )
Oh, absolutely Matt.
I'll just skip it.
I just meant if it was worst case, and it went on for days.(admittedly doubtful)
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rog
this is what i have done
if its really cold, stay home, who wants to work in that kind of temp
i normally start a little later than the norm, i wait till the sun comes out and then the temp creeps up ( anything above 2 C and ive found its ok )
if it is cold dont stay at home, get out to work, if your pipes freeze it is time to stop till they defrost, cold weather is part of our job, Matt only works part time (by choice) I have been working alot colder the 2C makes you filled beter when you work quicker ;D
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It is not just the temperature at the time you clean the window that is the issue, it is also the time it takes the water to dry, if it doesn't dry before it freezes and then someone goes for a burton on the ice you may get a letter from those people we all see on daytime tv ( claims direct and the like ).
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rog
this is what i have done
if its really cold, stay home, who wants to work in that kind of temp
i normally start a little later than the norm, i wait till the sun comes out and then the temp creeps up ( anything above 2 C and ive found its ok )
if it is cold dont stay at home, get out to work, if your pipes freeze it is time to stop till they defrost, cold weather is part of our job, Matt only works part time (by choice) I have been working alot colder the 2C makes you filled beter when you work quicker ;D
BUT
working aprt time leaves little time to "catch up" i have a full round, thus a day off sets me back that day
im currently working 5 days a week ( well 4 and a 1/2 ) and it doesnt matter if it rains for 1 day, as i know i have extra days to catch up
i still stand by what i said, if its going to freeze, pack up and go home, i guess thats the advantage of not being a "slave to the wage"
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rog
this is what i have done
if its really cold, stay home, who wants to work in that kind of temp
i normally start a little later than the norm, i wait till the sun comes out and then the temp creeps up ( anything above 2 C and ive found its ok )
Oh, absolutely Matt.
I'll just skip it.
I just meant if it was worst case, and it went on for days.(admittedly doubtful)
i lost 3 days because of the cold last year AND i had a few late starts
before people call me a softy for not wanting to work in the cold
ive worked on roofs 4 and 5 storeys high and had slates stick to my hands and pull the skin off with the cold, ive also had the on-set of hyperthermia a few times when stuggling to get building jobs done by a dealine, so im not scared of a bit of cold, i just dont fancy it and too be honest i dont need it that much either
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It is not just the temperature at the time you clean the window that is the issue, it is also the time it takes the water to dry, if it doesn't dry before it freezes and then someone goes for a burton on the ice you may get a letter from those people we all see on daytime tv ( claims direct and the like ).
you do know if you are talking about domestic houses, they employ you, they cannot make a claim against themselves. same goes if you hut yourself at there property you are there resonsibility (did you know that?)
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What if they have a visitor and they slip or indeed one of their kids slip? The visitor does not employ us nor do the customers children. Is it still down to the customers insurance to pay any potential claim or will thier insurance company chase our insurance company? Personally like I mentioned earlier when it gets and if it gets that cold I will be at home or maybe rubbing finger prints off the glass with my scrim.
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you do know if you are talking about domestic houses, they employ you, they cannot make a claim against themselves. same goes if you hut yourself at there property you are there resonsibility (did you know that?) Why would they make a claim against themselves? They would surely make it against us, why else would we need public liabiliity insurance?
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so......... if your an electrician who electrocutes the customer they can't claim because they employed you? Sounds odd to me. :o
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I salted last year and had no complaints. And suprise suprise I dont work in the scrubby areas mentioned above.
But at the end of the day if you are worried about it you can trad, or run it past the owners.
I use road salt from out of the yellow roadside bins and you dont need to cover the whole patio or drive, a little goes a long way.
Before long there will be a post appear on her complaining about the freezing weather and not being able to work.
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What's going to happen when we get freezing conditions?
All the water left on peoples driveways and patios is going to create an ice-rink.
I really don't want to have a phone call from an irate bloke after his wife had broken her leg. :(
I assume it's just a day or two off then?
Won't hurt because we only get a few days below zero.
But what do you do?
Please don't say "put salt or grit down" ::)
You can't pour that on people's property.
We didn't do it before wfp, so that's a surefire way to get sacked.
I have used rock salt and may do again. Another method I use isd to have an alcohol based liquid in a spray bottle which I apply after dragging water aside with a floor squeegee.
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I see what your saying squeeks, the road rock salt will look a little messy on someones path.
what I did was to go to tesco's and buy a large bag of cooking salt, lightly sprinkle this on the path, no ice and no mess to look at.
Proper answer.
I know what you're on about squeeks & i agree, it's a big problem. if someone threw rock salt round my house i'd sack him, it makes a mess when you trail it inside. If a custy slips & breaks themselves on ice you have created I would expect to be in deep s**t. I remember last year i was cleaning a house & the water was solidifying on contact with the ground- stone patio & path, it was lethal to say the least. I try to avoid the problem ones on the very coldest days now & will carry some salt this year as jeff1 says above.
P.S. there's nothing wrong with this post IMO.
tony
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What's going to happen when we get freezing conditions?
All the water left on peoples driveways and patios is going to create an ice-rink.
I really don't want to have a phone call from an irate bloke after his wife had broken her leg. :(
I assume it's just a day or two off then?
Won't hurt because we only get a few days below zero.
But what do you do?
Please don't say "put salt or grit down" ::)
You can't pour that on people's property.
We didn't do it before wfp, so that's a surefire way to get sacked.
If i worried that much I would wfp everything and wipe the front door with a damp cloth.
Couldn't see anyone going out on the patio in that extreme cold anyway. Except us window cleaners.
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I am sure if you asked your customers if they wanted their driveway / path gritted, they would say yes and you could even charge for it!!!
Traditional methods did not use the quantity of water that wfp uses, therefore this problem did not arrise. Explain this to the customer prior to doing the job, and explain that if they wish you can grit the areas that have the excess of water. If they refuse then the onus is on them to be careful of ice. If they say yes, I am sure they will be appreciative of your responsible precaustions and your thoughts for their safety.
Dunno if anywhere does biodegradable 'caution, slippery' signs that can be left?
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Another method I use isd to have an alcohol based liquid in a spray bottle which I apply after dragging water aside with a floor squeegee.
Gentlemen, we have a winner. :)
Alcohol based liquid, or I suppose some sort of antifreeze.
Great idea Shiner.
Wonder if vodka would work?
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If your mouth freezes over...
Just grit your teeth! ;D
As Mr Giles said, just use a little road salt. I use it a little way back from entrances to give people a chance to wipe it off before they go back inside, oh and point it out to them, not had a problem in 2 years, but have had one or two complaints if I didn't put something down.
Alcohol solution not very good, melts soles of some shoes slightly.
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I put down a light sprinkling of road salt, we are not talking about shovel fulls of the stuff for goodness sake!!
And you only need put it down on areas that are likely to be walked upon.
Roger is talking complete cobblers, I can only assume he's doing it to try and wind up people.
you really do only need a light spread of the stuff too, and I really do mean a light spread. I've never had a single complaint from any customer, commercial or domestic over it's use.
Ian
The only time someone queried it with me was when they wondered what it was. They were really pleased that I had their safety in mind.
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Another method I use isd to have an alcohol based liquid in a spray bottle which I apply after dragging water aside with a floor squeegee.
Gentlemen, we have a winner. :)
Alcohol based liquid, or I suppose some sort of antifreeze.
Great idea Shiner.
Wonder if vodka would work?
Dunno. I can't remember. Hic !!
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If your mouth freezes over...
Just grit your teeth! ;D
As Mr Giles said, just use a little road salt. I use it a little way back from entrances to give people a chance to wipe it off before they go back inside, oh and point it out to them, not had a problem in 2 years, but have had one or two complaints if I didn't put something down.
Alcohol solution not very good, melts soles of some shoes slightly.
Didn't know that about the soles. It is diluted and I do drag it away with the floor squeegee too if practical.
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Well I have a control flow on my hip so I dont get water anywhere on paths, some people must be using too much water, Luke
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you do know if you are talking about domestic houses, they employ you, they cannot make a claim against themselves. same goes if you hut yourself at there property you are there resonsibility (did you know that?)
What a load of rubbish. ::)
So if you cause any damage to a person or their property you are not to blame?
There is in law a "duty of care" which goes both ways.
Otherwise there would be no point to having public liability insurance would there?
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Well I have a control flow on my hip so I dont get water anywhere on paths, some people must be using too much water, Luke
There you go lads, we're all doing it wrong :(
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you do know if you are talking about domestic houses, they employ you, they cannot make a claim against themselves. same goes if you hut yourself at there property you are there resonsibility (did you know that?)
What a load of rubbish. ::)
So if you cause any damage to a person or their property you are not to blame?
There is in law a "duty of care" which goes both ways.
Otherwise there would be no point to having public liability insurance would there?
I never said about damaging people property that I remember, duty of care yes, they employ you again yes
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im pretty certain if some slipped and injured them self on water you had left on the ground which had frozen you would be vulnerable to a claim just because it is on there property probably wont exempt you from liability i am not saying this is fact.
we should protect others from our actions anyway weather that means starting later, mopping up, putting salt down or even just warning them about the chance of ice forming because it is the right thing to do.
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im pretty certain if some slipped and injured them self on water you had left on the ground which had frozen you would be vulnerable to a claim just because it is on there property probably wont exempt you from liability i am not saying this is fact.
we should protect others from our actions anyway weather that means starting later, mopping up, putting salt down or even just warning them about the chance of ice forming because it is the right thing to do.
I agree Philip, was should take care, I would anyway what anyone said on here, I would rather they moan about salt than hurt themselves, claiming agaist slipping on ice would be very hard to prove that this was down to you as ground frost is also very slippery.
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I agree Philip, was should take care, I would anyway what anyone said on here, I would rather they moan about salt than hurt themselves, claiming agaist slipping on ice would be very hard to prove that this was down to you as ground frost is also very slippery.
You want to hope they don't slip on the gravelly salt then.
I have in the past, it's pretty skiddy. >:(
If they step out the house expecting firm ground and step on those little marbles they're going to get a shock.
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I agree Philip, was should take care, I would anyway what anyone said on here, I would rather they moan about salt than hurt themselves, claiming agaist slipping on ice would be very hard to prove that this was down to you as ground frost is also very slippery.
You want to hope they don't slip on the gravelly salt then.
I have in the past, it's pretty skiddy. >:(
If they step out the house expecting firm ground and step on those little marbles they're going to get a shock.
SO SQUEAKY: What is you answer to water on the floor ? we all have given areas and you dont like them, what will do you? maybe a blow torch to dry it off a hairdryer ?
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if its going to freeze pack in for the day
after all we are all earning 500 quid a day, im sure we can afford it
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I will be putting salt down if I find it a problem, Squeaky, why do you knock peoples reply's they may be trying to help you, If I put salt down my customers would be happy I care for there well being. if my customer ask about this and I am sure they will I will say I would put a little salt down if needbe, if they are me not to then I will not do it.
They didn't have salt poured on their house before I changed them to wfp, so that's going to really make their minds up isn't it?
It's a house, not a plate of cod and chips.
Very unprofessional looking. :-\
they didnt have water until we changed to wfp...
salt is the answer as it does not take much to get rid of ice then it washes away with the melted ice... and its rare to be honest.... and only first thing in the morning we get frost.
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I will be putting salt down if I find it a problem, Squeaky, why do you knock peoples reply's they may be trying to help you, If I put salt down my customers would be happy I care for there well being. if my customer ask about this and I am sure they will I will say I would put a little salt down if needbe, if they are me not to then I will not do it.
They didn't have salt poured on their house before I changed them to wfp, so that's going to really make their minds up isn't it?
It's a house, not a plate of cod and chips.
Very unprofessional looking. :-\
they didnt have water until we changed to wfp...
salt is the answer as it does not take much to get rid of ice then it washes away with the melted ice... and its rare to be honest.... and only first thing in the morning we get frost.
what salt do you use ????
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I have worked out the solution...
... an ENORMOUS SPONGE UNDER THE WINDOW! ;D
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You want to hope they don't slip on the gravelly salt then.
I have in the past, it's pretty skiddy.
As long as you dont throw bucket loads of the stuff down it is not dangerous to walk on. If it was why would the council use it? ::)
At the end of the day how often do you flood an area to make it that icy? A couple of patches here and there.
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I have worked out the solution...
... an ENORMOUS SPONGE UNDER THE WINDOW! ;D
lol
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an ENORMOUS SPONGE UNDER THE WINDOW!
Jam or cream?
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if its going to freeze pack in for the day
after all we are all earning 500 quid a day, im sure we can afford it
I think that is sensible advice and something I am sure H&S would concur with.
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Use calcium chloride, its available in either granule or liquid form. And is much more efficient at melting ice and preventing ice than sodium chloride (salt)
And you could charge customers to apply it too. Or you could do it for free to cover yourself incase someone slipped on the ice you created.
Mark
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standard table salt worked a treat yesterday for us ;)
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I used table salt in my garden last year. Worked well, disolved leaving no visible residue and killed the weeds at the same time.
Was thinking though, surely if it was cold enough to freeze water on the floor right outside a house during the day, the brush bristles would freeze up too, no?
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I use road salt, can't remember what the name is and don't know how much it costs (apparently its like £400 - no seriously really expensive stuff)
a small handfull will cover about 400sqft
I'll get the name of it tonight.
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instead of throwing ur ash from coal fire away . put it in a sack nkeep it for icy ground .thats what we do in yakki da land .
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instead of throwing ur ash from coal fire away . put it in a sack nkeep it for icy ground .thats what we do in yakki da land .
biege carpets in customers house would love to hate you m8 if you did that round here, salt, sod the sot ;D
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instead of throwing ur ash from coal fire away . put it in a sack nkeep it for icy ground .thats what we do in yakki da land .
biege carpets in customers house would love to hate you m8 if you did that round here, salt, sod the sot ;D
My customers would prefer to have yellow snow.
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instead of throwing ur ash from coal fire away . put it in a sack nkeep it for icy ground .thats what we do in yakki da land .
biege carpets in customers house would love to hate you m8 if you did that round here, salt, sod the sot ;D
My customers would prefer to have yellow snow.
lol