Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Alistair@AWC on November 10, 2007, 05:47:51 pm
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Hi Guys,
Ive just fitted a couple of Varistream 2's to my van mount but I just cant get the pressure that I want
Ive got 1 100psi Shurflo (6.4lpm) and 1 100psi Shurflo (5.2lpm), now when I had the 6.4lpm fitted with an on/off switch I got a real torrent of water coming out it was a little too high but I liked the speed that I could rinse with it.
Now even by messing with the internal blue dial on the Varistream I just cant replicate it. And the lower lpm of the pumps is really boring when rinsing
The System Set-Up
2 Varistream 2's
2 100psi Shurflo
2 700ml DI Vessels (with 1/4" fittings)
2 100m Microbore Hoses
All of the above is fiited together with 1/2 professional hosing (yellow).
Now the pressure seems high enough to ocassionally pop a joint, but I just cant get the pressure at the end of the pole.
Before somebody asks why I want the flow rate so high its just personal preference, water costs next to nothing to produce, ive got a 1000litre tank in the van, winter working days are short and I think rinsing at low pressure is really slowing us down!
Any ideas guys?
Al
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Hi Guys,
Ive just fitted a couple of Varistream 2's to my van mount but I just cant get the pressure that I want
Ive got 1 100psi Shurflo (6.4lpm) and 1 100psi Shurflo (5.2lpm), now when I had the 6.4lpm fitted with an on/off switch I got a real torrent of water coming out it was a little too high but I liked the speed that I could rinse with it.
Now even by messing with the internal blue dial on the Varistream I just cant replicate it. And the lower lpm of the pumps is really boring when rinsing
The System Set-Up
2 Varistream 2's
2 100psi Shurflo
2 700ml DI Vessels (with 1/4" fittings)
2 100m Microbore Hoses
All of the above is fiited together with 1/2 professional hosing (yellow).
Now the pressure seems high enough to ocassionally pop a joint, but I just cant get the pressure at the end of the pole.
Before somebody asks why I want the flow rate so high its just personal preference, water costs next to nothing to produce, ive got a 1000litre tank in the van, winter working days are short and I think rinsing at low pressure is really slowing us down!
Any ideas guys?
Al
do you have filters on the pumps ?
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Hi Ian,
The 5.2lpm pump has an inline filter, but I do check it regulary
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I'm sure the higher flow rate pump 8002? is not suitable for a varistream coz the amps are too high, when I had mine supplied(incorrectly) the flow was crap and kept cutting out had to get it swapped for the 8000 pump
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I,m a bit confused with this ???
The whole point of the Varistream is to be able to restrict/set your flow rate to where you want it. If you were happy with your flowrates pre-varistream why bother with it?
Just one thing though. 6mm (Microbore) can cause flow problems. I suspect your pumps were previously working their nuts off at full blast all the time to give you a decent flow rate on 6mm. Were you getting problems with pressure switches burning out a lot?
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Change your microbore hose (6mm) for minibore (8mm) and you will get more water flowing at a quicker rate because microbore is far too slow with a varistream fitted.
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Change to minibore and get rid of the strainers,the strainers restict the flow rate.I fitted a strainer and had to turn the varistream round to about 3 o`clock to get any sort of flow so with 2 reels i would have been lucky to get any,with no strainer i only need to turn it to 10 o`clock for a torent of water.
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Change to minibore and get rid of the strainers,the strainers restict the flow rate.I fitted a strainer and had to turn the varistream round to about 3 o`clock to get any sort of flow so with 2 reels i would have been lucky to get any,with no strainer i only need to turn it to 10 o`clock for a torent of water.
Trouble is you can knacker up the diaphragm by removing the strainer if any debris from the tank gets to the pump :o
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I wouldn`t worry about it,how much debris can get into the pump if your that bothered just use a fish tank sieve from time to time to clear bits out of the tank.
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I,m a bit confused with this ???
The whole point of the Varistream is to be able to restrict/set your flow rate to where you want it. If you were happy with your flowrates pre-varistream why bother with it?
Just one thing though. 6mm (Microbore) can cause flow problems. I suspect your pumps were previously working their nuts off at full blast all the time to give you a decent flow rate on 6mm. Were you getting problems with pressure switches burning out a lot?
The new 5.2lpm pump I got burnt out 3 pressure switches within a week so I contacted the supplier who said it was because I had an on/off switch fitted and would need a Varistream (although I suspected it was faulty) so I decided to buy 2 as the flow on the 6.4 lpm pump was slightly too high, but when I fitted the Varistreams the 5.2 lpm pump still constantly cycled so the supplier exchanged it.
I was starting to think about the Minibore but Im getting sick of forking out cash as ive got 2 100m microbores (One 18 months old and one 2 weeks old) would it make that much difference considering the flow is restricted to 1/4" hose going through the DI vessels and 5mm inner diameter through the pole hose
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I had a problem with the varistreem constantly cycling and poor flow. It turned out to be the di vessel leaking a little at the threads. I only found out when i put the di after the pump. As soon as it pressured up i could hear it. So easiest things first would be to check everywhere for leaks. I also had too much pressure recently (enough to crush my reel) but very little flow. Things improved when i turned the blue dial back down and also backed off the varistreem dial. It seems to be a fine balance sometimes between pressure and flow. I'm sure there is a simple way to get it spot on.
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Having had varistreams in the past, but before that i use to control the flow with a regulator you never get the same flow rate after you have installed a varistream as it restricts the voltage or ampage i forget which one.
Oliver Collins
Rise & Shine Cleaning
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I have a 75psi pump in a ready made pump box with flow control lever on it ( 3.5 years old ) & have recently gone from 50m 1/2" to 80m minibore (8mm id). the first thing i noticed is the noise from the pump, it has to work harder the smaller the ID of the hose. I too work with a high flow rate & although i still get the flow rate i want at the brush the control lever has to be set higher.
From what i've read on here i would never entertain a varistream or 6mm id hose. I'm pretty sure i wouldn't get the flow i wanted with microbore & couldn't handle the hassle or lost time with a varistream.
tony
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Varistreams work fine with 6mm microbore but better with 8mm,you have to adjust the blue dial inside the box depending on what type of hose your using.The problems will start with the hose if it`s not set right as it will give back pressure if it`s not shutting off soon enough,if you use a flow controller which uses pressure switches if this is the case and it`s not set right it will blow switches allday long.
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Just a thought here - what if you changed your jets? Most jets seem to be 2mm i see gardiners do 3mm too. Wouldn't cost much to try.
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Hi Guys,
Just an update on this topic.
Ive now changed the microbore hoses to minibore, the 6.4lpm pump can now fire water out about 8 foot when turned up full but the flow from the 5.2lpm pump is still rubbish and thats with the strainers removed
Any ideas
AL
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Get rid of the Varistreams and the Shurflo pumps. This is where all of your problems are.
Get a 100psi (you can adjust this cut-off pressure) Flojet pump they are very well built and will work perfectly fine with just an on/off flow valve on the pole. Yes these pumps are more expensive to buy (less than a pump+varistream though), but there is usually a reason for tools being more expensive.
This pump will work perfectly well with 100m of microbore and will even power 2x100m of microbore with no problems. Minibore will probably give you too much flow rate with these pumps.
Make sure that you always fit a pre-pump strainer to any pump set-up as it only needs a small bit of tank swarf to rupture the diaphragm. On your first set-up of this pump system use our guidelines on the link below to 'tune' the pump to perfectly match your exact set-up. This should then give you years of trouble free, simple pumping.
http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/What_pressure_delivery_pump_will_I_need_.html
By the way we do not supply either make of pumps so this information is not swayed by a desire to move stock!!
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Still a fair bit cheaper than a varistream + shureflow, why do other suppliers recommend the first option Alex, is there ANY advantage in using a varistreem?
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the problem is most likely to do with the di vessels only being 1/4inch fitting. The 1/4 inch fittings are an od measurement, the id is closer to 3.5mm.
get rid of the vessels and di the water before the tank, we use 75m of microbore on one of our reels and can easily get 3 ltr/min through it using a 5.2ltr/min shurflo and varistream.
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Thanks for the replies Guys.
Alex, sorry but im not going to take your advice on this for the simple reason of the amount of money ive spent on these and the fact that the 2 pumps are set up identically yet the 6.4lpm pump is working great, I just need advice as to why the 5.2lpm pump isnt giving me the flow I need.
JM, I appreciate what your saying about the DI vessel as its a thought that crossed my mind but as I mentioned above each pump is set up identically including them both having a 800ml DI vessel each yet only one pump is doing the business
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JM123 can you ring me,01424732954 cheers.
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Thanks for the replies Guys.
Alex, sorry but im not going to take your advice on this for the simple reason of the amount of money ive spent on these and the fact that the 2 pumps are set up identically yet the 6.4lpm pump is working great, I just need advice as to why the 5.2lpm pump isnt giving me the flow I need.
JM, I appreciate what your saying about the DI vessel as its a thought that crossed my mind but as I mentioned above each pump is set up identically including them both having a 800ml DI vessel each yet only one pump is doing the business
Is it because the 5.2 lpm is a lower flow rate than the 6.4 lpm??
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Alex,
I appreciate that the 5.2lpm is a lower flow rate than the 6.4lpm but if you saw the two in operation you would agree that the performance difference is not down to the stated flow rates
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Still a fair bit cheaper than a varistream + shureflow, why do other suppliers recommend the first option Alex, is there ANY advantage in using a varistreem?
Yes there is - if you set it up correctly, a Varistream will reduce your flow rate and save you water but you will probably end up working slower because you've got a lower flow rate. It should reduce the loading on your battery giving you slightly longer pumping between charges.
Why do most suppliers recommend them? - because they have been heavily promoted for the window cleaning market whereas Flojet have never bothered.
Alex,
I appreciate that the 5.2lpm is a lower flow rate than the 6.4lpm but if you saw the two in operation you would agree that the performance difference is not down to the stated flow rates
If there are no blockages in your system and the electric feed to the pump is good with no bad connections, then it has to be a dodgy pump or a dodgy varistream.
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Hi,
Just to let you guys know, through a process of switching components around ive now isolated the problem to the inner vessel of one of my DI canisters.....................who'd have thunck that ??? ::) :(
AL
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Alistair
Could you repeat that just for Alex please!
MartinB
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Still a fair bit cheaper than a varistream + shureflow, why do other suppliers recommend the first option Alex, is there ANY advantage in using a varistreem?
Yes there is - if you set it up correctly, a Varistream will reduce your flow rate and save you water but you will probably end up working slower because you've got a lower flow rate. It should reduce the loading on your battery giving you slightly longer pumping between charges.
Why do most suppliers recommend them? - because they have been heavily promoted for the window cleaning market whereas Flojet have never bothered.
Alex,
I appreciate that the 5.2lpm is a lower flow rate than the 6.4lpm but if you saw the two in operation you would agree that the performance difference is not down to the stated flow rates
If there are no blockages in your system and the electric feed to the pump is good with no bad connections, then it has to be a dodgy pump or a dodgy varistream.
The proviso was on there being no blockages first!!
Glad you got it sorted out.
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Hi Alex,
I hijacked another post that you posted on............but ill repeat here
Is Kirsty in the office because ive been trying to get her all afternoon with an urgent order concerning this problem
Regards
AL
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Cheers Dave,
Just done that ;D
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Hi Al
Just seen your other post and replied on it!
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MartinB,
What are your thoughts on using a relay to reduce the work the pressure switch has to do?
Peter
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MartinB,
What are your thoughts on using a relay to reduce the work the pressure switch has to do?
Peter
Thought I would give this a nudge up in case Martin doesn’t check the second page. The posts do disappear quickly on this forum.
Peter
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Mmm, this thread has resolved itself now I guess, but thought I'd mention what I have done....
100psi flojet, 100m microbore, needle jetted superlite brush and a flow rate if left fully open of...er....an awful lot, twin streams of water going 15ft or more...way more than I need.
So had the flow restriction in the normal place...on the pole hose, duly adjusted to the level I was happy with.
Then my flow kept dropping, I was thinking my battery was knackered before realising that the hose leading from my water tank to the pump was of such a cheap type, the suction from the pump was collapsing it! :o Hence reducing my flow to a dribble at time :-\
Rightly or wrongly I have now but my flow tap BEFORE the pump, the pump works absolutely perfectly and has done for some months now, one thing it can't do is cycle because the pump isn't going to have the back pressure to cause it to happen.
I have no idea whatsoever if this is good or bad for the pump....but it don't half work good!
I had a big day today, not going to say how much though, but in the past I was using over 650 litres of water meaning I had to go back for a top up, now I am going home at 3pm with half a tank of water left ;)
I have dropped my flowrate by a huge amount and I am still working as quickly as before.
My twin jets of water are now no more than 3 or 4 ft....a high flowrate? Not needed if your technique is good.
Ian
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MartinB,
What are your thoughts on using a relay to reduce the work the pressure switch has to do?
Peter
Well I will take the lack of response to mean that the relay does take the pressure of the pump switch.
Peter
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Peter
Apologies for delay - have been away from work for a couple of days.
The Varistream completely removes the pressure switch from the system, and takes over the control of the pressure switching of the pump. That is one of its design features.
The new Digital Varistream is now being shipped to stockists.
Martin
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What new features has the new digital varistream.
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Still a fair bit cheaper than a varistream + shureflow, why do other suppliers recommend the first option Alex, is there ANY advantage in using a varistreem?
Yes there is - if you set it up correctly, a Varistream will reduce your flow rate and save you water but you will probably end up working slower because you've got a lower flow rate. It should reduce the loading on your battery giving you slightly longer pumping between charges.
Why do most suppliers recommend them? - because they have been heavily promoted for the window cleaning market whereas Flojet have never bothered.
Alex,
I appreciate that the 5.2lpm is a lower flow rate than the 6.4lpm but if you saw the two in operation you would agree that the performance difference is not down to the stated flow rates
If there are no blockages in your system and the electric feed to the pump is good with no bad connections, then it has to be a dodgy pump or a dodgy varistream.
I've used a 100 PSI flojet with microbore just fine. The flow rate is decent and, as far as I'm aware, the Flojet manufacturers would honour the warranty when using it with microbore. Apparently, using microbore with a shurflo pump voids the warranty.
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Apparently, using microbore with a shurflo pump voids the warranty.
Not when they come with one of my systems, the warranty still stands.
Peter
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I think you`ll find that the warranty problems start when you stop using a varistream.