Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Alex Wingrove on November 06, 2007, 01:59:58 pm
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Hello
two questions is 800l too much water for a 2 man setup? could i get away with less?
if not can you tell me where i can get a 800l baffle tank from please ive seen 650l 900l and 1000l all baffled
would prefer 800l to shed off a few kilos in plastic
Thanks
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Hi
I think starting with 800l tank would be fine. you just need to go out and get more
work. if you got smaller tank and it picked up really fast then you would have said
to yourself i should have got bigger tank. Just fill it to your requirements.
regards
Ian 31
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Ive got the work, just will be upgrading soon,
all that i need now is where to get one
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Hello
two questions is 800l too much water for a 2 man setup? could i get away with less?
if not can you tell me where i can get a 800l baffle tank from please ive seen 650l 900l and 1000l all baffled
would prefer 800l to shed off a few kilos in plastic
Thanks
Alex I have a 650 tank for two man set up, and have not yet ran out of water
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800 litre is about spot on for a large two man commercial set-up.
The only way we could provide this size of tank would be to have one custom made to your specification. It is more expensive though than buying standard size tanks.
Why not just buy a 900 litre and never fill it full.
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900 is too much water for 1250 payload, and its £300, dont wanna spend that on a tank, when the 650 is 200, i was maybe thinking buying a 800l ibc and baffling is that hard
oh btw how much are the 800l custom ones alex?
and how much are the 900l one, if its around £250 all in i will buy one
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Hello
two questions is 800l too much water for a 2 man setup? could i get away with less?
if not can you tell me where i can get a 800l baffle tank from please ive seen 650l 900l and 1000l all baffled
would prefer 800l to shed off a few kilos in plastic
Thanks
As you are talking about baffles I assume you mean a van mount rather than a static tank. You should manage on 800litres a day for a 2 man setup but there may be days when you run out of water. Probably better to have techniques for saving water. Using microbore saves some compared to half inch hose. Possible trigger on a pole setupo can help. Maybe electronic flow controller. Flow control valve at end of hose to switch off water while moving to another part of the building. Working with a lower flow rate is usually OK but can sometimes be a false economy as you may need to spend longer on a window. I have sometimes got through 600 litres on my own on a very busy day but as I have an 800 litre tank to myself, it has not been necessary to economise too much.
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where did you get it from paul
i was talking about a 800l ibc to put in the van, and baffle it myself
but will have a static at home
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WE can get hold of the 900 litre tank with full baffling. As you can see from the picture below it is a flat D shape tank. The cost would be £215 + £55(carriage) + VAT = £317.25
as there is not too much demand for this size they are still relatively expensive.
A custom flat 800 litre tank would cost about £400 including delivery, the advantage of this is that you could have it to your exact specification. If I was having a new set-up made I would go for a flat, twin outlet 850 litre tank custom made with matching drip trays for the hose reels.
You can get hold of 800 litre IBC for about £35 from a recycling depot add baffles and this will be even cheaper. A point to note with IBC tanks is that the framework around them is not suitable for restraining the tank in an accident.
Have you thought about just adding a second tank to your current set-up?
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i dont have a setup at the moment just a backpack on a trolley
im starting with the tank its the one thing im not sure about atm, that and the facelift pole,
if it were you alex, and you needed a tank, what would you do,
remember i need enough for 2 guys, would 650 suffice and just carry some barrels if need be
how much would the drip tray cost,
im trying to keep the cost down, so far im at £1750 all in inc the pole, thats with a 650 from you
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As you have just been working from a backpack and trolley I would imagine that a 650 litre tank would be more than sufficient.
In our domestic-round vehicle we have a 500 litre tank and this easily allows us to do a 2 man 5 hour work session. As long as you have pole control valves and do not let your poles waste water when not in use I would imagine that it will be more than enough. The only time that we need the 900 litre set-up is when we are doing a very large (170 apartments) commercial two man round.
I had a 2 reel drip tray made and it cost about £40 plus carriage. Not cheap but it looks the business and works very well. It has a 40cm front side that stops the dripping male connector on the side of the reel dripping anywhere but in the drip tray, the other sides are 10cm high.
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why don't you put two 400ltr tanks together join the pipework up?
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I would get a flat tank,the upright ones leak when full.
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etills.co.uk
jerry
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My reel sits fixed on top of my 400l tank so I can pull it from either side door. I love things that are well designed and thought out. I know you are clever Alex and I bet your driptrays are good. But what I don't understand is my reel doesn't leak and never has done?
I do get slops out of my tank lid when I go round bends. When I put a brush back in I get some drips off that.
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I have minibore and used to use microbore and they have never ever leaked in the van ever,i see van pictures posted with them in and wonder why they have them,if anything the pole hoses leak more when winding them up between jobs.
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Heres my plan,
At home want a
1000ibc
Merlin Ro and DI Polisher
Sub Pump
IN the Van
650-800l tank
2 flojet pumps 1 60psi 1 100psi
100m microbore and 60m microbore on 2 reels
10l DI
17' Xcel
24' Facelift CF
Battery and Charger
Fitting Kit and Protecta Kote
anyway i can improve that or save some money
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Make sure you get a pre filter with the merlin,some use a 20" with them.
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a sediment one?
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Yes,i know a guy in ireland that sells them already to plug in and go with hozelock fittings or john geust.The pre filter will save the membranes a bit,when making vast amounts of water with the merlin you must have a pre filter.There really designed to make a few litres and then turn them off.
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thats a bit stupid isnt it
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Not really you can buy a holding tank that goes under the sink for drinking water,i will go for a merlin.
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I use a home based 1000l Ibc and it gives me great fleibility to fill up, so that's a tick.
I have two 17'gf xtel's (one a spare they are that good), so that's a tick.
I have a pump box with vari flow and 100psi pump- and a pump board with a variflow and a 100psi pump, again one's a spare. I guessing that you made your combination choice because the psi/hose lenght balance to a good flow. So I suppose I'll tick you on that one.
110 AH with split relay and Halfords charger as per Jeffs recomendation.
Facelift I haven't got but they are supposed to be the best. I have an xtel hybrid and they are cheaper.
I don't have protekacote
My RO is roman 300gpd with booster pump, to di to ibc then transfer pump onto van with no di. No complaints. I've read that merlin is the best, but aren't they mounted in the van?
These are just my choices and where I agree with you. Where I disagree that doesn't mean I am right.Also Mines a hot system.
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You can use a merlin as a static or in van,the merlin will make enough water to be able to plug in and use when out on site if you run low and if theres a tap.
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Heres my plan,
At home want a
1000ibc
Merlin Ro and DI Polisher
Sub Pump
IN the Van
650-800l tank
2 flojet pumps 1 60psi 1 100psi
100m microbore and 60m microbore on 2 reels
10l DI
17' Xcel
24' Facelift CF
Battery and Charger
Fitting Kit and Protecta Kote
anyway i can improve that or save some money
Here we go with my five pennies worth! ( I always have an opinion!!)
At home
1000ibc
Merlin Ro and DI Polisher Try a 300gpd Ro-Man with final stage 700ml DI Unit if your input pressure is above 50psi, this should produce enough to fill your IBC in good time and is much cheaper to run than the Merlin. Also if you DI into the tank you can get rid of the DI in the vehicle.
Sub Pump
IN the Van
650-800l tank
2 flojet pumps 1 60psi 1 100psi Try 1x 100psi Flojet balanced as per our website instructions feeding 2x 100 meters of microbore, might as well have two the same length you never know when you might both need 100m
100m microbore and 60m microbore on 2 reels (as above)
10l DI (no need if using the 300gpd with polishing unit at home)
17' Xcel
24' Facelift CF Try the 24ft Hybrid X-Tel nearly £200 cheaper and stiffer and 2' 8" longer and lighter per extended cm as well
Battery and Charger
Fitting Kit and Protecta Kote
This is only my opinion but the above could save you nearly £400 and be simpler and easier to use and set-up
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As you have just been working from a backpack and trolley I would imagine that a 650 litre tank would be more than sufficient.
In our domestic-round vehicle we have a 500 litre tank and this easily allows us to do a 2 man 5 hour work session. As long as you have pole control valves and do not let your poles waste water when not in use I would imagine that it will be more than enough. The only time that we need the 900 litre set-up is when we are doing a very large (170 apartments) commercial two man round.
I had a 2 reel drip tray made and it cost about £40 plus carriage. Not cheap but it looks the business and works very well. It has a 40cm front side that stops the dripping male connector on the side of the reel dripping anywhere but in the drip tray, the other sides are 10cm high.
to stop them drips I just leave the connection hose in the side of the hose reels, I did take them out for a couple of weeks and water was every where, problem stopped as have shut offs on both ends for hose ;)
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I still don't know what you are talking about.
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you reckon on one pump alex, for two people?
the di in the van is just in case im in the country away from home and i need to get some water, if that's the case i can stick tap water in and still get some pure.
I was going with the facelift purely on macc and nwh rate it, and i trust there opinions they have been going at it for a while, just seems that if im going to be using a pole all day might aswell buy the best
and lucky for me i already have a 200gpd ro, just need an upgrade kit
oh Alex do you have any facelift in stock i remember you saying you do sell them but not from the site
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Trust me on the facelift,i have a 24ft carbon fiber and it`s like a broom handle.Mines a year old at least and is the same as it was on day one,never had to adjust the clamps nothing just the odd clean.With a light brush it`s the mutts nutts.
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where did you get it from paul
i was talking about a 800l ibc to put in the van, and baffle it myself
but will have a static at home
I didn't mean an IBC tank Alex. It's one of those funny shaped Omnipole ones with a bit of baffling built in.
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Never used a facelift but just got a 28ft hybrid xtel and it's the nuts. I'd definatly give the hybrid xtel some serious consideration.
Simon.
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a sediment one?
Alex. I recently needed an iron pre-filter as well because there seems to be a need to filter it out since the flooding a while back (not sure if that had anything to do with it though). There is a fair bit of iron in the geology of our area and it sent my membranes belly up. You might get away with it if you are sourcing your water in Crawley though. I source mine over the county border which comes under Sutton and East Surrey water area. As you know, the water in Crawley is supplied by Southern Water and I think it is sourced from a different place. Iron pre filtering may not be necessary for you but thought I would mention it in case of problems.
The rest of your setup looks sufficient but personally, I would rather have the 800 litre setup than the 650. Don't forget that the weight of two guys needs to be allowed for in payload calculation.
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Sherwood i have used both,you get what you pay for.Facelift are not just expensive cos they look pretty.
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did you buy a whole system from them paul?
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did you buy a whole system from them paul?
Sort of. It ended up being a bt of a hybrid system really as it was an upgrade from another one supplied from elsewhere. Some of the bits were cannibalised from the other system. I won't go into details but I got a good deal from them because my previous system was of use to them - a sort of part exchange if you like.
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you reckon on one pump alex, for two people?
the di in the van is just in case im in the country away from home and i need to get some water, if that's the case i can stick tap water in and still get some pure.
I was going with the facelift purely on macc and nwh rate it, and i trust there opinions they have been going at it for a while, just seems that if im going to be using a pole all day might aswell buy the best
and lucky for me i already have a 200gpd ro, just need an upgrade kit
oh Alex do you have any facelift in stock i remember you saying you do sell them but not from the site
If you have a big enough tank then you should never need it. So saying I do carry a separate DI back up system in my vehicle. It is not linked to the tank set-up but has got a tap connector on it to connect to someones outside tap and then a splitter to connect to my two hose reels. I have never used it though!
Facelift/X-Tel Hybrid the Facelift is a very well built pole but the Hybrid is well worth a look at. At nearly half the price (£230 as opposed to £415 for the bare pole), with a significant longer actual extended length, significantly shorter closed length, lighter per cm weight, and stiffer (by quite a margin) there would be absolutely no contest for me, but then I have had the advantage of being able to work with and compare both poles. We do not currently have any Facelift in stock, the best place is either Facelift direct or Cleantech.
Upgrading your 200gpd RO will certainly save you quite a bit of dosh.
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I would get 2 pumps for a 2 man system, one of the reasons is if one fails you can always just work with one till you get a replacement, have one and it fails you cant work, for the rest on the day and maybe another day.
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1 100 psi Flojet, 2 reels of 100 meter microbore i found works the best, i carry a spare of everything to make sure probelms can be rectified asap
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I would get 2 pumps for a 2 man system, one of the reasons is if one fails you can always just work with one till you get a replacement, have one and it fails you cant work, for the rest on the day and maybe another day.
That is a good point Windowwashers. Although I run a single pump set-up (for simplicity and battery load) I do have an identical pump spare (on quick release connectors )in the vehicle for instant back up.
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I would get 2 pumps for a 2 man system, one of the reasons is if one fails you can always just work with one till you get a replacement, have one and it fails you cant work, for the rest on the day and maybe another day.
That is a good point Windowwashers. Although I run a single pump set-up (for simplicity and battery load) I do have an identical pump spare (on quick release connectors )in the vehicle for instant back up.
I have two pumps, saying that I have two everything aprt from the tank, my thinking is better safe than sorry
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now im in a dilemma
do i get a spare pump or not, do i get a di vessel or not, do i got xcel or facelift, i swore i had it all sorted.
Alex do you reckon i need a spare flojet just to make sure?
Ill scrap the DI in van, and consider the xcel
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Trust me on the pole,you`ll be sorry.
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now im in a dilemma
do i get a spare pump or not, do i get a di vessel or not, do i got xcel or facelift, i swore i had it all sorted.
Alex do you reckon i need a spare flojet just to make sure?
Ill scrap the DI in van, and consider the xcel
Yes that is one of the problems with WFP Alex. Often, there are no definitive answers because we all adapt our systems and styles to our own needs and our varying work requirements. What would be suitable for me and my work might not work so well for you and yours.
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Trust me on the facelift,i have a 24ft carbon fiber and it`s like a broom handle.Mines a year old at least and is the same as it was on day one,never had to adjust the clamps nothing just the odd clean.With a light brush it`s the mutts nutts.
I'll second that, mines a year old & has been abused daily, never maintained :-[ & is still going strong. If you got a 24ft carbon facelift i guarantee you that you'll not need a 17ft pole too, this pole will do everything bar the very tightest of bottom windows. Just buy the bare pole mind & use a plastic angle adaptor preferably with MKII swivel, this will cover 99% of situations.
However i have not used the hybrid but with shorter sections & being composite i would imagine the base section is quite fat, it always looks this way in peoples pics, it looks like they holding a drain pipe. the f/lift base is indeed like a broom handle.
I personaly find the fatter the pole the more it makes my arms/hands ache.
Just IMO.
tony
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that is what is swaying me, i do beat stuff up, i dropped my superlite today, i was on one leg and the ground was wet and un even, and it hit some stone floor and cracked a little
i cant be having a good pole breaking
and the 17ft is for my dad
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True Tony the fatter the pole the more you ache especially the hands,regardless that they are shorter sections on the 24ft hybrib it still bends way more than my facelift,a mate of mine has one and we put both poles up against each other last week he couldn`t beleive how much bend there was in it compared to the facelift,the carbon facelift is a completley different pole to the hybrid,the only similarity is the length ie 24ft.
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It's a shame i've not used the hybrid, i could then give a better balanced view, i don't doubt that it is a good pole. all i can say is that you will definatley not regret spending the money on the facelift.
My advise to anyone is spend the money on the pole, this is realy what makes all the difference between a hard day & an easy day, day in, day out. It also helps you to make a better job & do the job quicker & easier. not everyone is in a position to spend top dollar on a pole but i would say- make cutbacks somewhere else & buy the best pole you possibly can.
I know people plod along with poles they think are good or good enough ( i did for years ), & the facelift is expensive but from my experience & others on here I don't see any regrets.
tony
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I figured if im going to buy a system i want to buy it once and not need to buy bits heres and there
sure i could add alot more to my wishlist but at the end of the day its too earn money, and im cutting back the things i dont need,
but the pole i use all day everyday i wanted the best, seems like a good idea
Alex can you order one for me when im ready to buy please
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S**t
I'm slipping back into my old ways, quick luke, take over pleeeeeaase. :-X
must stop ranting, must stop ranting :-[
;D ;D ;D ;D
tony
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but the pole i use all day everyday i wanted the best, seems like a good idea
That's the most sensible thing i've read in ages ;)
tony
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Just imagine having a top of the range system,hot water massive tank never run out of water new van the works,and then the most important thing that you use allday ie (pole) you`ve cut corners with,no more needs to be said.If you can`t afford it wait till you can,and Alex i`m in east grinstead once a month you could have a look at mine,only if you show me yours LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Here's a piccy of my 28ft xtel, make of it what you will. It's fully extended and almost horizontal. I had just trod on dog poo if you think I look a little odd in holding the pole. All I can compare it to is a 20ft and 30ft GF universal. It's a lot lighter than the 20 yet almost as big as the 30. You can see how big the base section is, obviously the 24ft xtel would have less sections. The base section is still smaller than the 20ft universal.
I was interested in going for the facelift from what people on here had said, but I needed a pole fast and these xtel ones are in stock where as I couldn't get hold of the facelift.
As for the 17 xtel that is a really good pole, it's really short when not extended but a good workable fully extended length. It's pretty whippy but at 17 ft thats a good thing for getting over conservatory's ect. You wouldn't want a pole to be whippy above that height but 17ft is okay by me.
Simon.
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I have a 17ft xtel and try not to use it above 12-13ft as it`s to whippy but as you say for above conservatory roofs at an angle it`s ok,the flex comes in handy when needing to push the brush into corners.
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Alex you are going to have to go with your own feelings on this. If you decide to go with the Facelift, rather than us getting you one and supplying it at list price it would be worth your while ringing Facelift direct and seeing if they are up to offering you a deal.
Get it without their gooseneck and brush but do get a gooseneck adapter which will allow you to fit a plastic neck or even a G-fit aluminium gooseneck and your choice of brush. One thing I will say for the Facelift is that it is very well made. On the subject of comparative rigidity, the only thing I can comment on is the measured difference that we tabulated when we carried out the group test (results on our website).
I worked for many years without a spare pump with no problems but now I tend to be over cautious and carry spares for everything. The trouble is that I often end up doing a days commercial work an hour away from base, if I came home I wouldn't want to bother going back!
There are so many set-ups that will work for you that really you have to decide what will work best for you. You can always modify it later.
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To true that Alex the brush that comes with it is nooooooo good for domestic,i don`t know why they don`t call it a commercial brushead with gooseneck,as far as the RO man 300gpd goes alex with water pressure of say 50-60 psi how much water would i make in 7-8 hours.
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To true that Alex the brush that comes with it is nooooooo good for domestic,i don`t know why they don`t call it a commercial brushead with gooseneck,as far as the RO man 300gpd goes alex with water pressure of say 50-60 psi how much water would i make in 7-8 hours.
This is still dependent upon input TDS and water temperature. As an approximation it would be about 180-230 litres in 7-8 hours. These figures of course look a lot better if you feed the RO into a 1000 litre holding tank and then in 24 hours it will give you about 550-700 per day. The difference in production would be quite noticeable between just 50psi and 60psi.
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yeah im not stupid ill let face lift make the pole and thats it,
when s your new brush out Alex?
the only reason i say i would order from you is that you get to make some money on it, even if it is just the claiming back the vat or whatever,
and all i need now is where to buy the flojet pump and how to set it all up for a 2 man setup,
how do you measure water psi
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You can buy the Flo-Jet pumps from several WFP retailers or direct from Dual-Pumps on 01664 567226, ask for the 100psi on-demand window cleaning suitable pump.
To set this up for your use follow the instructions at the bottom of the page on this direct link to our site http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/What_pressure_delivery_pump_will_I_need_.html
With regard to the pole let us know if you want us to source it for you, but it may be worth seeing if you can get a deal from Facelift.
With regard to the brush I can be no more specific than soon!
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within the next 6-10 weeks?
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within the next 6-10 weeks?
Yes (Hopefully!)
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pffft
ill put them last on my list then of things to come
Thanks bud, and everyone, looks like it wont be long now
oh yeah NWH you got the site of the people who did the decent wrap on that vivaro
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Vinyl design in eastbourne.
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A wingrove. whatever you do will be right. You will need more than one pump. pole etc because you are in this for the long haul. My reel went today, and because I had a spare I didn't lose any time.
Even without our input you had made some very good choices, now just get on with it.If you buy the facelift that's a great pole, if you buy the hybrid that is too. You want the facelift, so buy it.
The business books call this paralysis by analysis. The thing is is to make a decison even if it's the wrong one, because you won't be that wrong and you will never be perfect.
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A wingrove. whatever you do will be right. You will need more than one pump. pole etc because you are in this for the long haul. My reel went today, and because I had a spare I didn't lose any time.
Even without our input you had made some very good choices, now just get on with it.If you buy the facelift that's a great pole, if you buy the hybrid that is too. You want the facelift, so buy it.
The business books call this paralysis by analysis. The thing is is to make a decison even if it's the wrong one, because you won't be that wrong and you will never be perfect.
Well said
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yeah ill go with my gut,
get the facelift, gonna have two reels anyways
one pump, im pretty sure it aint gonna break after say 6 months, after 6 months i will buy another,
oh there has been lots of input just been reading alot of stuff, its pretty simple really
ill post some pictures when its all done
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NWH or Macmac or anybody else with a face lift.
Has anybody got a picture of a facelift 24 or 30ft in action at a very low angle. I've seen pics in mags but none showing a pole getting over a long extension and being held by a widow cleaner.
Simon.