Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dai on November 01, 2007, 08:20:16 pm
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I knew it was coming sooner rather than later, my best paying job has cancelled.
This was a care home I did for £73.50, 2 1/2 hrs work.
The problem wasn't with the owners, it was with the woman administrator. She was as jealous as hell that I was earning more for my morning, than she did for the day.
OK, I'm pi55ed off at losing the job, but what really concerns me, is that they are now employing a maintenance guy who is going to do the windows.
Now this is an old building with some very awkward windows, I would never attempt to do some of these windows trad, even in my mad young days.
Windows over a conservatory roof, window over a glass roofed walk way.
some widows are so close to adjoining buildings that the ladder angle would be far too steep for comfort.
Some guy is going to feel obliged to try and tackle these windows as it's a part of his job description. He may have very limited ladder experience, and even less cleaning windows.
Should I write to the owners about my concerns? They are very nice Filipino people. I dare say they are expert at providing nursing and care, do they have a clue about the danger they are putting themselves in.
In the worse case scenario, it would be them facing a corporate manslaughter charges, not the administrator.
Does anyone have the link to that article about some place getting fined, and having to pay a million quid compensation?
Your thoughts please guys, Dai
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unlucky Dai, its not nice to lose any contract, do you think that maybe contacting the owners is the right thing to do? i suppose it depends what kind of relationship you have which i suppose only you will know? I would probably sit tight myself for around 3/4 months, wait for the dust to settle then maybe ring the lady administrator, be polite and see if you can swing her round, by then you will know wether their emloyee is doing a good enough job or not by then.
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Usually lost jobs I put down to experience and just move on but in this case I would share your concerns.
Firstly did you do ALL the upstairs windows WFP?
If the owners are not aware of the WAHD and the possible consequences and are decent people like you say I would definately contact them about this.
Sorry but I don't have a link Dai :(
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Bright And Clean, I WFP the lot, including all frames and exterior pvc cladding and doors. Some of these window are a challenge, even for WFP. Dai
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Dai:
I wouldn't give a monkeys what the woman administrator thinks about you.
Contact the owners and persuade them to read the Work At Height Regulations and emphasise that whoever deals with any tradesmen working on their property (probably the woman administrator) is responsible for ensuring all safety methods are adhered to and when accidents happen that they are liable for failing in their duties to maintain correct safety measures.
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Dai:
I wouldn't give a monkeys what the woman administrator thinks about you.
Contact the owners and persuade them to read the Work At Height Regulations and emphasise that whoever deals with any tradesmen working on their property (probably the woman administrator) is responsible for ensuring all safety methods are adhered to and when accidents happen that they are liable for failing in their duties to maintain correct safety measures.
In the light of you doing the lot WFP I couldn't agree more with this!!!
Forget the jealous idiot and get on to the owners mate.
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I would go direct aswell, sod the admin lady, go to the top at least you will feel better even if nothing comes of it. You never know she may well get a telling off for it, and i am guessing that would be a plus for you Dai.
think of it in a positive light you now have another 2.5 hours to fill with quality work ;)
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CONTACT THE OWNERS,
simple as that, dont take any s--- off some stuck up bitch who thinks shes the major decision maker,
her husbands probebly a ponce who accepts what she says instead of giving her a backhander >:(
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i would just try to leave on good terms see the administrator and say to her that you realise she is trying to save money but if it doesnt work out for her she can feel free to call you back , if it such a bad job as you say at least you wont of upset her and when a problem does arise it will be you she rings and not another company and then i doubt she will pull this stunt on you again, and even if she doesnt ring back at least you will have come accross more proffessional .
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i would just try to leave on good terms see the administrator and say to her that you realise she is trying to save money but if it doesnt work out for her she can feel free to call you back , if it such a bad job as you say at least you wont of upset her and when a problem does arise it will be you she rings and not another company and then i doubt she will pull this stunt on you again, and even if she doesnt ring back at least you will have come accross more proffessional .
Nothing wrong with being professional, but if a person in a company thinks above there station I go straight above their head, this is more professional IMO, I do not have to please an admin, it is the people that pay the bills, write the cheques and say ya or nay that I impress. to many little big people about IMO
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windowwasher i think that sometimes you are right and it can depend what sort of mood you are in on the day or how much the person has got under your skin .
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I knew it was coming sooner rather than later, my best paying job has cancelled.
This was a care home I did for £73.50, 2 1/2 hrs work.
The problem wasn't with the owners, it was with the woman administrator. She was as jealous as hell that I was earning more for my morning, than she did for the day.
OK, I'm pi55ed off at losing the job, but what really concerns me, is that they are now employing a maintenance guy who is going to do the windows.
Now this is an old building with some very awkward windows, I would never attempt to do some of these windows trad, even in my mad young days.
Windows over a conservatory roof, window over a glass roofed walk way.
some widows are so close to adjoining buildings that the ladder angle would be far too steep for comfort.
Some guy is going to feel obliged to try and tackle these windows as it's a part of his job description. He may have very limited ladder experience, and even less cleaning windows.
Should I write to the owners about my concerns? They are very nice Filipino people. I dare say they are expert at providing nursing and care, do they have a clue about the danger they are putting themselves in.
In the worse case scenario, it would be them facing a corporate manslaughter charges, not the administrator.
Does anyone have the link to that article about some place getting fined, and having to pay a million quid compensation?
Your thoughts please guys, Dai
Its always sad when we loose a god paying customer, but always be polite and professional in dealing with the administrator.
I would ask her how the maintenance guy intends to clean the windows, if the reply is from a ladder then you can voice your concerns, they may have well purchased a wfp system them selfs? Its a bigger outlay in the beginning but overall it works out cheaper for them, This has happened to a mate of mine a couple of months back.
Sit down and think of the pros and cons that may affect what you say or do.
But then again how would you feel if the maintenance guy was to fall from his ladder or worse still, fell through a glass roof?
Or you can just put it all behind you and down to experience, its a decision only you can make. what ever it is good luck dia. ;)
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windowwasher i think that sometimes you are right and it can depend what sort of mood you are in on the day or how much the person has got under your skin .
lol Trev, not sure how to take that m8, I will take it as you are being nice to me ;D I do seem to wear my heart on my sleeve alot, but always try to cover it when I am doing business, you see I am to honest and straight to the point with everyone, this could be a problem, but thats me ;) doing ok from it though
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just reread my post sorry it could be read wrong ,i was agreeing with you
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just reread my post sorry it could be read wrong ,i was agreeing with you
Trevor I look on the positve side of life m8, I read things the same way ;)
I am glad you was agreeing with me ;D :P
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CONTACT THE OWNERS,
simple as that, dont take any s--- off some stuck up bitch who thinks shes the major decision maker,
her husbands probebly a ponce who accepts what she says instead of giving her a backhander >:(
??? :o ??? hmmmmm...no comment as I presume you are being humerous!
Dai is she the decision maker. Did she take you on for the work or did the owners? Was it a verbal agreement or a written contract. So many things to consider with this situation, my gut feeling says just write to the owners, thanking them for their past custom and that you undertsand the decision to not employ you anymore, but should you be needed in the future, please do not hesitate to contact etc etc etc. The owners may have asked her within her job spec to make these sort of decisions and there will not be a lot that you can do about that. Their maint guy may be doing nothing for hours and they are getting him to clean the windows so that he is earning his money. You will replace this work and it will be with better work ;)
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Contact the owners and enclose a copy of Working At Height Regs .... Good Luck nobody likes losing jobs
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Agree wholeheartedly with Helen, You call her an "administrator" what does that mean, is she the decision maker or is she simply relaying the decision of the owners. Go get some new work instead of wasting time getting this womens back up and ensuring they never use you again. A simple letter thanking them for their custom and asssuring them that you are available in the future if needed will get the best results in the long run IMO. You can also point out that unlike many other people that offer these kinds of services that you are insured and are complying with the health and safety legislation etc.
I didnt like the "backhander" comment either, nothing humerous about it IMO, wouldn't like him calling to clean my missus windows.
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CONTACT THE OWNERS,
simple as that, dont take any s--- off some stuck up bitch who thinks shes the major decision maker,
her husbands probebly a ponce who accepts what she says instead of giving her a backhander >:(
woah, thats a bit stiff isn't it?
She might be disagreeable, but stuck up bitch?
In addition, are you also condoning wife-beating?
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i would just try to leave on good terms see the administrator and say to her that you realise she is trying to save money but if it doesnt work out for her she can feel free to call you back , if it such a bad job as you say at least you wont of upset her and when a problem does arise it will be you she rings and not another company and then i doubt she will pull this stunt on you again, and even if she doesnt ring back at least you will have come accross more proffessional .
Nothing wrong with being professional, but if a person in a company thinks above there station I go straight above their head, this is more professional IMO, I do not have to please an admin, it is the people that pay the bills, write the cheques and say ya or nay that I impress. to many little big people about IMO
Perhaps some may think that a window cleaner may be acting above his/her station to go over the managers head?
The administrator/manager has been employed by the owners and probably has their full support especially when it comes to saving money for the company?
To start writing letters to the owners above the managers head will probably be seen as sour grapes and not look professional at all.
If these people are running a care home they probably have a very good grasp of H&S.
Leave on good terms and hopefully the job may come back. :)
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Dai, when you say administrator, do you mean someone employed for her secretarial skills or the manageress?
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never mind dai u might pick up a £200 on Monday
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£200 job
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Perhaps you could write the same letter to both? Don't criticise, but just tell them all that you would be happy to return if needed.
Whatever happens, good luck!
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Remain professional at all times why not write a letter saying thankyou for your custom in the past and if at any point in the future you require services again please do not hesitate and call us in the mean time if you require any information on wahd and safe working practices for a nominal consultation fee you can provide the answers to any questions send two copies one to the admin and one to the owners
Dean
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The women I call administrator is the one who sees that the bills get paid, but never signs the cheques.
I am on friendly terms with the owners, and I don't think that they are aware of the situation.
This so called administrator Is the daughter of the last owners, her mother was an ex hospital matron, and a right dragon by all accounts.
The conversation I had with her on the phone was brief. She said "we won't want the windows done this month, we have a maintenance guy and he's doing them".
I said, "does that mean you want to cancel my services" she replied very hesistantly "yes". It was the hesitation that made me think that the owners know nothing about it yet.
Believe me, if she was acting on the owners instruction, she would have been loud and jubilant.
I think I will write a letter thanking them for their past custom. I will also explain that, whilst they are perfectly entitled to seek new quotes, please don't allow anyone, especially inexperienced staff, to attempt to clean these windows using ladders.
I will explain about W.A H L, and the possible repercussions if an accident was to happen. It would be their head in a noose as they pay the wages, not the secretary/ administrator. Dai
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The women I call administrator is the one who sees that the bills get paid, but never signs the cheques.
I am on friendly terms with the owners, and I don't think that they are aware of the situation.
This so called administrator Is the daughter of the last owners, her mother was an ex hospital matron, and a right dragon by all accounts.
The conversation I had with her on the phone was brief. She said "we won't want the windows done this month, we have a maintenance guy and he's doing them".
I said, "does that mean you want to cancel my services" she replied very hesistantly "yes". It was the hesitation that made me think that the owners know nothing about it yet.
Believe me, if she was acting on the owners instruction, she would have been loud and jubilant.
I think I will write a letter thanking them for their past custom. I will also explain that, whilst they are perfectly entitled to seek new quotes, please don't allow anyone, especially inexperienced staff, to attempt to clean these windows using ladders.
I will explain about W.A H L, and the possible repercussions if an accident was to happen. It would be their head in a noose as they pay the wages, not the secretary/ administrator. Dai
OK then. I've read this with interest. I'm no expert but here's what you do IMO.
You write a polite letter along the lines that you have already stated. You write it to the owners and cc it to the admistrator.
That way no perception of sour grapes. No accusations of sneaking behind admin's back
It might even pay you to print out a small portion of the WAHD and use a highlighting pen for the relevant bit(s).
Personally, I wouldn't worry what the administrator thinks. Like many (but by no means all) office workers, she probably sees such things theoretically rather than practically. i.e. x pounds saved, less paperwork to sort out. She's not to be faulted for that. She's only doing the best job she can within the incomplete knowledge that she has.
If the job is re-instated to you yes, she might get the hump with you. A situation like this is typical of why I have tried to be more businesslike in my dealings as it reduces the impact of possible personality clashes.
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Wel this is the letter I have drafted, should I make any changes? Dai
Re-cancellation of window cleaning at xxx Derwyn;
Dear xxx and xxx
I am sorry to hear that you no longer require my services,
I have enjoyed working at xxx Derwyn over the last twelve months.
Of course you are free to choose who cleans the windows, or methods used in doing so, However, I would like to draw your attention to the working at height legislation introduced in April 2005.
As you are aware, all commercial premises have a duty in law to provide a safe working environment for all employees and contractors working on site.
Owners of private dwellings do not have to meet these requirements at this time.
The Savoy hotel owner’s recently had to pay a heavy fine and court costs, when a window cleaner was injured after falling from height. The use of ladders as a work platform is now severely restricted, and the legislation states that ladders can only be used as a last resort, having first considered all safer options.
You tell me that the window cleaning is now to be part of the new maintenance mans duties. This is the area of my concern. The thought of someone with maybe little experience of ladder work, or window cleaning attempting to clean the windows at xxx Derwyn using ladders.
xxx Derwyn has some windows that should never be attempted using ladders.
The windows over the conservatory and glass walkway are particularly dangerous, as is the glass roof itself, and the bay window near the new entrance. The close proximity of the old annexe makes it difficult to set the correct ladder angle.
I can understand that in the present economic climate, cutting costs is a priority in any business, but if an employee of xxx Derwyn were to suffer a fatal accident, whilst attempting to clean these windows using ladders, serious criminal charges would ensue.
Seek alternative quotes by all means, but please don’t allow anyone, to attempt to clean these windows using ladders.
I hope every thing goes smoothly with the commissioning of the new annexe.
If I can be of any service to you in the future, please call me at any time.
Yours sincerely
-For Damayah window cleaning services
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Dai, where you have put "fatal accident", IMO you should put words to the effect of "any accident causing injury or in worse case fatality"..... what do you think? Otherwise I thimk your letter is spot on :)
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Dai, where you have put "fatal accident", IMO you should put words to the effect of "any accident causing injury or in worse case fatality"..... what do you think? Otherwise I thimk your letter is spot on :)
Helens opinion is a good one IMO :-X
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Duly amended, thanks guys. Dai
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Good letter, Dai.
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Probably in the minority here but if I recieved that letter from a service provider I would feel like I was being lectured and would be very reluctant to re use the person who sent it.
This letter in my opinion gives the impression that you are the only person who is capable of interpreting the wah legs.
What about something a bit less in your face like............
" there have been many recent changes to legislation governing Working at height and I would urge you to consider the ramifications of using a service provider who is not experienced in this regard as the penalty for business owners is punitive." I would be happy to advise you in this regard as I am very appreciative of the business you have put my way over the past year and would like to think that my services may be of use to you and your business at a future date.
Many Thanks for your custom, please don't hesitate to contact me if I can be of any assistance etc.
:)
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This letter in my opinion gives the impression that you are the only person who is capable of interpreting the wah legs.
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Using legs comes under WAH? True - but only if they are stilts. ;D
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Dai your worth more than the price you charged £75 .00 for 2 .5 hours work its there loss
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Probably in the minority here but if I recieved that letter from a service provider I would feel like I was being lectured and would be very reluctant to re use the person who sent it.
I definitely agree.
This letter in my opinion gives the impression that you are the only person who is capable of interpreting the wah legs.
What about something a bit less in your face like............
" there have been many recent changes to legislation governing Working at height and I would urge you to consider the ramifications of using a service provider who is not experienced in this regard as the penalty for business owners is punitive." I would be happy to advise you in this regard as I am very appreciative of the business you have put my way over the past year and would like to think that my services may be of use to you and your business at a future date.
Many Thanks for your custom, please don't hesitate to contact me if I can be of any assistance etc.
:)
Definitely better and far less confrontational IMO.
Personally I don't think you will get the job back as people don't like to be made to look foolish or as if they have made a bad decision so I would personally forget all about it.
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I agree with bluez.
The original letter says to me that you are the only one that can do the job properly, and don't employ anyone else to do it otherwise you will end up breaking the law. (This may, or may not, be the case in this instance.)
Bluez suggestion seems pretty good, why not use that?
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Dai
I would take the letter and give it to the adminstrator along witha copy of the 2005 whah directive.
I would explain that a copy has also gone to the Owners and your local Heath and Safety Officer.