Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jdemarco on October 11, 2007, 07:09:18 pm
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i bought my pure water system from pure freedom in grimsby and they told me a 400ltr tank of pure water would last me 2 days work. so i thought that was ideal and bought it.
i then realised when i first used it 400ltr only lasted half a day, boy was i dissapointed. so i bought 12 25 ltr tanks for my trolley cos i have a lad working for me and come 3pm were empty and need to fill up again to carry on. maybe im doing something wrong, i dont think i am or maybe i was mis informed
either way its annoying. only been using it 2 wks and still not as fast as trad yet.
so how much water does everone else go through?
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Trouble is your working sixteen hours a day. ::)
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Trouble is your working sixteen hours a day. ::)
PMSL ;D
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I thought that when I bought a 400L tank. :-\
250-300L per day is usual for me.
If I've got some mucky first cleans I could drain nearly 400L.
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You are a bit keen JD. It's quite normal to work seven days a week for the first couple of years of starting any business but not everyone is at the same stage in thier lives as you are.
I find the work quite hard for instance.
On the question of water usage I'm about the same as you. If you think you are using too much turn your flow control down. I have a 400l tank, and some 25l containers. I call back at lunch time and fill up with a transfer pump. It takes five minutes.
You'll have to work a bit harder and buy some proper kit.
Welcome to the forum.
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i bought my pure water system from pure freedom in grimsby and they told me a 400ltr tank of pure water would last me 2 days work. so i thought that was ideal and bought it.
i then realised when i first used it 400ltr only lasted half a day, boy was i dissapointed. so i bought 12 25 ltr tanks for my trolley cos i have a lad working for me and come 3pm were empty and need to fill up again to carry on. maybe im doing something wrong, i dont think i am or maybe i was mis informed
either way its annoying. only been using it 2 wks and still not as fast as trad yet.
so how much water does everone else go through?
I have been known to use 700 litres in a day but usually 400 is enough. Maybe 500 if I've got some dirty first cleans to do. I could probably reduce if I had to but I've got a decent sized tank in a van that can take the weight. I set things up like that so that I didn't have to keep checking water levels.
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I get through 400 litres by breakfast :P
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Try screwing the lids on. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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You guys need to put triggers on your poles. A mega day for me & i still cant get through
400ltrs, what are you doing with all that water. ???
Macc
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Me and ma dad use 500ltrs, sometimes less and sometimes more, Luke
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I have a 650 litre tank and at one point I could empty it and need to go home to top up :-\
But I now use probably no more than 300l on even the busiest of days.
changing from fan jets to needle jets started the chain reaction that has led to me using less water.
But unlike quite probably everyone else, I have my flow control on the inlet side of the pump.
Happened quite by accident too.
The hose leading from van tank to the inlet side of the pump is just cheap, crappy hoselock hose (useless stuff but fine for going between tank and pump) and at one point I thought I was having pump problems, sometimes I had good flow, sometimes I didn't.... >:(
At that point my inline valve was where everyone elses usually is...on the pole hose....
Then after ferretting around in the back of the van I saw that the hose between tank and pump was kinked, and being cheap and thin, the suction from the pump was causing it to concave, further reducing the flow.
Hasn't appeared to do the pump any harm, so now I have put a flow valve right next to the inlet on the pump, and I adjust my flow from there.
No worries of the pump cycling thats for sure.
It's been like it for a few months now, and the pump is still working perfectly fine.
The jets of water from my brush now only go about 4ft in the air when the brush is lying on the floor...as against about 15ft!
You do have to be more careful when using a low flow rate though, it's much easier to get it wrong!
Ian
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TURN UR FLOW RATE DOWN!!
If you are working on domestic stuff you are wasting a h*lluva lot of water. You are only 2 weeks into WFP so you wont be anywhere near as efficient as you will in 2 or 3 months which is about what it takes to get up to speed. I bet ur running around like a headless chicken tripping up over everything, snagging hoses and all the good stuff that comes with the 1st time around. Post agin in a couple of months and I bet u a pound to a penny you will be using nowhere near as much water and you will be faster than trad.
On an average day on domestic I use max 250 ltrs a day. I find that too much water flow is a pain and can actually cause probs with it getting where I dont want it to go.
BTW I work a 18 hr day lol :)
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500 l a day for me , i flood the windows , better be safe than sorry , i dont know how you trolley and backpack people cope
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using far to much water 300 ltrs should be enough for a full days work for one person
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I've never used more than 550 litres in a day, even on first cleans. I'd average between 250 and 300 litres now, and thats with the odd first clean still thrown into the mix.
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300-400 should be more then enough for most people
its all about how you do it ;D
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500 a day plus for me too and that's with valves on the poles to conserve water as well.
Must be part timers only using 250/300 litres a day or working very slowly trying to conserve water rather than grafting to earn more ;D
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depends on your charges spouse
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200 litres ..... £200 .......... or maybe £180 ....... on a bad day , no complaints yet , but i still do a lot of downstairs windows the traditional way , and i get my ladder off if i got a few flat roofs
steve
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Just been out to my van to check, i had a massive day on & used just under 300ltrs
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300-400 litres on a normal day.....
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we used 700 today but most days are about 500/600 for 2 of us 8am/5pm
with a couple of breaks no lunch most days we are filling at custys houses
any time we can
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average day 300ltrs im stil a newbie hoping to cut that back as much as poss
the more expierience i get :)
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Jeff brimble goes through about 15-20 liters a day! lol ;D
I believe he's a tight old git! ;D
Only joking jeff ;)
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8.5-9hr day, still on first time round, tops only wfp and with triggers on my poles = 175ltrs
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well it must be the amount of work im getting through in a day. i average 550 pounds a day and still on first cleans wfp. i was also told it would be twice as fast.
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well it must be the amount of work im getting through in a day. i average 550 pounds a day and still on first cleans wfp. i was also told it would be twice as fast.
:o
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400 ltrs will usually last me 2 days but i only do 6 hr days
It was alot high than that when i first started but with experience and better work practices and equipment it has come down
£550 per day :o well done!
Dean
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well it must be the amount of work im getting through in a day. i average 550 pounds a day and still on first cleans wfp. i was also told it would be twice as fast.
I'm quite a bit slower but I'm enjoying a it a whole lot more than 4 hrs a day up and down a ladder so I don't notice the time going by. I can see where I'm ging to speed up though even on the second cleans.
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So you earn £137,000 a year?
i average 550 pounds a day
i was also told it would be twice as fast.
Is it?
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So you earn £137,000 a year?
i average 550 pounds a day
was thinking the same one man on own earning this figure and only window cleaning, fair play to you I must have been doing something worng when I used to work on my own :-[
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well it must be the amount of work im getting through in a day. i average 550 pounds a day and still on first cleans wfp. i was also told it would be twice as fast.
What planet you on geeze?
I am in my prime , fit as you like and i aint gettin nowhere near that and as for twice as much get real!
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well it must be the amount of work im getting through in a day. i average 550 pounds a day and still on first cleans wfp. i was also told it would be twice as fast.
Get a grip of yourself man!!!
I earn that by lunchtime ;D
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So you earn £137,000 a year?
i average 550 pounds a day
was thinking the same one man on own earning this figure and only window cleaning, fair play to you I must have been doing something worng when I used to work on my own :-[
You dullards!
He meant litres! ::)
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I was thinking the same myself Squeaks! ::)
As for speed...
On small jobs like a 2 bed semi with perhaps half a dozen windows, the difference in speed is marginal, from stepping out of your vehicle to getting back in it to drive away there won't be that much difference.
But on larger jobs the difference can be staggering, and in particular on georgian and leaded work, even on a small job in those instances.
I've a couple of offices that used to take an average of 4 hours to do, three storey affairs and that would not include the frames either, add in the frames and that added another day to the job.
Now?
WFP takes under an hour and a half and that includes all of the frames, and I'm charging the same now as then...well, actually a bit more.
Your average casement window (3 panes of glass, 1 pane about 2' 6" wide by about 4' high, a narrow opening light about 3' long and 6" deep and one underneath about 3' long and 2' feet....figures may not be exact there, but you know the type I mean!!) will take an experienced window cleaner (trad) 90 seconds or so to clean.
WFP? Again, an experienced window cleaner will clean that same window in about 30 seconds, and that will include the frames too.
Of course, some trad guys will be able to do a window such as I described in not much more than 30 seconds....but that is virtually racing...no, hang on..it IS racing!
I have done countless time and motion studies, often on the window cleaner over the street who doesn't know I'm watching, and those figures bear out again and again.
But to be quick and do a good job takes practice, it's very easy to screw up with WFP...
Ian
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I am concerned Is it worth me getting my WFP?
I am trad at moment with all domestic house I would say I have 3 houses min in each road
now with my trolley what i want how much water would i need i do max 16, 3 bed semi houses a day
I only have an estate as I have split from the missus and need a car for the kids too but later want a van as well as car
Can anyone help please
also how many houses do you guys do wfp?
thanks and regards J
County Window Cleaning
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If you allow about 15l per semi you should be ok, so you are talking about ten 25l containers.
To begin with you will use more water than you should, but after time has passed you will become more effective and you may get each house down to more like 9 or 10l per house.
You could also put a single large tank in the back of your estate car (Alex Gardiner does this) and work as per a van mount, with the trolley ready for when that is a prefferable method...
Also, with a transfer pump, you would also be able to quickly refill a container for your trolley.
Ian
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thanks Ian I was just thinking of doing tops only at first till i get used to it
think thats worth it?
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Calm down guys!
Honestly i earn 550 pounds on average, myself and another lad and he gets 50 pounds a day. On my own im hitting between 350 to 400 pounds a day. my business turns over 8000 pounds a month. A year working 4 weekly i turnover 104,000 pounds and i can achieve this weather permitting in 3 1/2 days and i also have a trick up my sleeve to fill up the spare days with the same customers and increase my annual turnover by thousands and its not by increasing the price or any extras like facia cleans or con roofs or even selling my body.... so simple if you can get away with it and where i live you can. Doesnt bother me if no one believes even my brother doesnt and hes a window cleaner too.
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Bugger, hope tax man doesnt read this!!
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Two or three buckets, depending on how dirty my water gets ;)
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Calm down guys!
Honestly i earn 550 pounds on average, myself and another lad and he gets 50 pounds a day. On my own im hitting between 350 to 400 pounds a day. my business turns over 8000 pounds a month. A year working 4 weekly i turnover 104,000 pounds and i can achieve this weather permitting in 3 1/2 days and i also have a trick up my sleeve to fill up the spare days with the same customers and increase my annual turnover by thousands and its not by increasing the price or any extras like facia cleans or con roofs or even selling my body.... so simple if you can get away with it and where i live you can. Doesnt bother me if no one believes even my brother doesnt and hes a window cleaner too.
At the end of the day if thats what you earn its what you earn. personally never talk figures as long as im happy thats all that maters
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jdmarco
i take it you are vat registered then ?
If so are you on 17.5% or the flat rate scheme ?
Dave
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Listen JD you'd sound a lot less like a bullhitter if you didn't have one of the cheapest scrimp and srape systems going, and you hadn't put this thread up because you were concerned that using 500 litres was costing you too much money, and you'd been done by the man who sold you the system.
According to you your system cost a days wages so why worry, and what's a bit of water.
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No not vat registered. never really needed to be not many expenses with window cleaning not when i was trad anyway. But considering it now wfp. The system i bought was the best deal i could find and i wouldnt splash out thousands on something i wasnt sure about but now i got it and tried the cheaper version (still does the job though) i will upgrade to ionics or whatever the top guns use. i built my business up from scratch 4 yrs ago all with trad until 3 wks ago but its not as good as i was led to believe, i was told its twice as quick but at the mo its about the same just a damn site easier. hopefully it speeds up in a few months.
So when i do upgrade, who can reccommend me the best system? hot or cold.
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No not vat registered. never really needed to be not many expenses with window cleaning not when i was trad anyway. But considering it now wfp. The system i bought was the best deal i could find and i wouldnt splash out thousands on something i wasnt sure about but now i got it and tried the cheaper version (still does the job though) i will upgrade to ionics or whatever the top guns use. i built my business up from scratch 4 yrs ago all with trad until 3 wks ago but its not as good as i was led to believe, i was told its twice as quick but at the mo its about the same just a d**n site easier. hopefully it speeds up in a few months.
So when i do upgrade, who can reccommend me the best system? hot or cold.
some of the top guns do not use a small system like we do. I know this as I at at college with a guy that fits commercial ro's etc not available as far as I know from Ionics ect as they would not have repeat business and from what I hear the systems we run are very high maintainence if used alot.
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The lad workin for you must be a mug. Surely you earning that amount of doe you could put him on a decent wage and give him a van so he could work himself and you take a day off? Ive been trading 4 years and aint turning that over maybe in ten years or so.
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The lads only been with me for 2 wks, im training him up so he knows the round so he can take over the cleaning side i got someone else starting in 2 months once the lad with me now knows what needs doing and theyll be working together so i can manage the business and canvass and bring more work in, desperate to get into commercial now i got wfp. so thats gonna take alot of time tendering for these and thats when ill need a better commercial system and van so i can concentrate on this side. gonna be hard work but what you put in you get out.
ive never seen the point in buying commercial work cos your not guaranteed repeat business like you are with private.
Any one agree?
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Jdemarco how do you manage to work ten hours a day, earn over five hundred pounds use 500ltres of water and post on here at such odd times? Have a look through your posts. ::)
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IF the figures you quote are accurate then you are breaking the law.
You have no choice but to register for VAT. The threshold for VAT is £64,000. I have a Freedom system and know the guys there very well. They dont talk b+ll+cks. I,ve seen planty of exagerated claims about how fast you can be with WFP vs trad advertised. As much as 400% faster. It doesnt really matter who's system you get it wont make any difference. All you can do is carry more water than you do now. Like I've already said you are only just at the start with WFP. Give it a chance and stop griping. It isnt a wonder tool that can make you a fortune. It i faster eventually but it takes TIME to get to that stage. According to what you say you should have gone from £550 a day to £1100 overnight. ::)
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Well if you read the posts properly then you would see that i get through my work in 3 1/2 days. And that half day was today any other time its before 7am or after 6pm im posting why does it make a difference when i post? pure freedom are fine but im saying what they told me about it twice as fast and 400 ltrs in 2 days. ill ask them again, need to phone monday to sort out my leaky ro unit anyway. i know what i need to do i was just working out how much is the norm. No probs.
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Calm down guys!
Honestly i earn 550 pounds on average, myself and another lad and he gets 50 pounds a day. On my own im hitting between 350 to 400 pounds a day. my business turns over 8000 pounds a month. A year working 4 weekly i turnover 104,000 pounds and i can achieve this weather permitting in 3 1/2 days and i also have a trick up my sleeve to fill up the spare days with the same customers and increase my annual turnover by thousands and its not by increasing the price or any extras like facia cleans or con roofs or even selling my body.... so simple if you can get away with it and where i live you can. Doesnt bother me if no one believes even my brother doesnt and hes a window cleaner too.
tell us more
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jdmarco
My tax investigator wife has just informed me the vat threshold is £64'000, if you dont register then you will get hammered well and truly.
Messing with the vat man is a LOT worse than just hiding the odd tenner from the taxman. :-X
For your sake i hope the vat people dont put a trace on your i.p. address.
p.s . my wife is a window cleaner so you are ok ;D
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All domestic work too. well done mate, £50 an hour for 10 hours. Your definitely not doing council houses at £4.50 a go. I am happy to earn in a week, what you earn in a day.
to be honest, I bet the majority of us are lucky to average £500 a week. I made the common mistake of filling my month with work and settling for that.
I never moved on to phase 2. That's where you only take on better customers and drop the dross.
I work 8 hours and usually get through about 200/225 litres. Dai
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I think Mr Demarco is having a wind up..
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Think what you like. It can be done and if anybody wants any help in getting there just ask me if i can do it any 1 can it just takes a bit of drive and ambition and wanting to better yourself.
Im here to help
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Am I doin something wrong or is it to much work.....
I got an 800ltr tank in the back of the van and a 1000ltr storage tank in the garage for back up of extra water for the day.
If i run out or I am going to run out by the end of the day I just pop back and fill up 200 -400 ltrs of extra water to finish off the day and do more work depending on day light, I used to just finish when I'd run out of water due to the time it takes to refill, Now I fill the storage tank up over the weekend and use the EXTRA water as and when I need to refill during the week. This now gives me time do do more advertising to get more work in.... Great This will make me get through the winter thats for sure....
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A days work I can do on 30 litres ......unless I kick my bucket over !!! ;D
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No not vat registered. never really needed to be not many expenses with window cleaning not when i was trad anyway.
Even on a conservative estimate you are well over the VAT threshold, and from all I can gather, you are also not employing the lad working for you legally.
With the money you are earning, your profit levels will be huge, yet you go into WFP with an entry level system and bleat about water usage.
Over the years I have employed countless people, and it takes months to get them up to speed, and not just the speed, but also to get them to do the job properly, you spend half your time going over their work and re-doing it for the first few weeks.
And how on earth can you put in 10 hour days during the winter?
Commercial work can certainly be done early in the morning, I do that most days of the week, but come 4pm in the winter you are working in virtual darkness.
Perhaps someone on the forum who is local to you could accompany you for a day or two and watch you work and also check your standards, on one of the threads you have in fact invited someone to do just that.
what you claim to do may well be 100% accurate, but for 99% of people it is virtually inpossible to achieve anything like the figures you are claiming.
If you are half the business man you claim you are, you would be legit, charging VAT and employing correctly, and with such a massively successful round you would not be timidely going for and entry level WFP system, (nothing wrong with entry level by the way, it's how I started in WFP) with the profit levels you must have, spending a few thousand on a high end spec system wouldn't have had you batting an eyelid.
If I am wrong about you then I apologise unreservedly in advance....
Ian
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Sorry,
Just resurrecting this thread as jdemarco never answered the question about why he's not VAT registered when he's turning over 104k per year???
Andy
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I'm using about 500 litres a day at the mo with 2 people ::) good or bad i dont know
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I'm using about 500 litres a day at the mo with 2 people ::) good or bad i dont know
Sounds good to me, some days like today i only used 200ltrs, tomorrow will be 250ltrs,
so on them sums we are about even.
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You are new to wfp so in a few months you will probably find that with better method etc you will start to see that you are using less water becoming more effiecient although 500ltrs for two people sounds about right
Dean
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i use 250 ltrs on one job, :o
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450-500ltrs a day on my own
900ltrs a day for 2 of us.
£1 million a week, 24.5hrs a day blah blah blah blah
;D ;D
just kidn
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from maybe 20litres for traditional window cleaners a day to 500 ish litres wfp ers ! flaming dinkum