Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ad1664 on October 30, 2004, 09:53:11 am
-
Good morning ladies and gents, as a complete Newbie to the industry I’d greatly appreciate your comments, criticism & feedback on my business set-up plan
I’ve been reading these boards for a few weeks now and have found them incredibly useful. I have worked out the things I think I need to have in place to make a success in the industry and would appreciate any thoughts you may have on my plan. I’m new to both the industry and self employment so it’s a big jump for me, but one that I think is totally worthwhile.
My initial plan is to start with domestic carpets & upholstery, and see where that leads me. I intend to focus on a high-quality service with excellent customer care & not splash & dash.
Near new van(Berlingo/Kangoo/Partner size, parking is an issue in a lot of the locality) with clear signwriting
Alltec Advantage portable, alternatively Prochem Powermax plus heater. Sebo BS36, Sebo Duo, turbo dryer of some sort. I’ll probably go for a start-up package if I can get the right deal, any offers on discount rates greatly appreciated…
I’m aiming for the local market place, and will be targeting areas & delivering leaflets myself. I’m not sure about Yellow Pages etc as I’d rather build up slowly from recommendations etc.
Initially I think I’ll go for the NCCA 2 day training course, plus possibly a Prochem one as I understand the Prochem ones are more “hands-on” than NCCA.
Become a member of the NCCA
Full liability/risk insurance
A decent accountant/book-keeper
Ideally I’d like to spend some time watching a CC on the job(if you’ll pardon the expression) as it appears this is the best way to learn the incidental things not covered in training courses, but am not sure quite how to go about asking this? Will also be practising on friends & families homes.
Any thoughts?
Regards, Andy Dawson
-
where abouts are you Andy?
-
Hi Andy
Well you seem to be much better prepared than i was a year ago.
I kind of fell into this by accident and have stumbled allong the way but enjoying it as i'm sure you will.
Anyway as far as i can see your prep is spot on so far. The one thing that i must stress to you is , that this game is far more technical than i ever realised, so learn as much as you can about different fibres and fabrics, carpet structures and as quick as you can!! It will be so beneficial to you, you will have to learn them in time anyway, so get a head start.
Networking is a very good way to promote your business, find out where your nearest Chamber of commerce is, its quite cheap to join and you get some free advertising.
The business over breakfast club is another good one.
And advertise in as many local parish magazines as you can, they are cheap.
If you want to contact me for help from a novice!! you can send me a private em.
Cheers
ian
-
Well done with the planning. You sound like you will be fine. One thing I would say though is the van size you are planning will not be big enough in a few months time. We started off with a Renault (Kangoo size) but had to go to a Peugeot Expert after a few months. In hind sight, we should have bought too big at the beginning. Isn't hind sight a wonderful thing!
Let us all know where you are.
BF Nicky
-
These sort of post always make me smile :) everything written down and looking real good.
high quality work, NCCA, reccomendations, newish van ect...etc..etc
If I was you Andy before you do anything else I'd get 10,000 leaflets printed and go put them out. this will give you a glimpse of the real world, from this you can judge how much work you can expect in the beggining and how hard "doing leaflets myself" is!
with no Y/P and no existing customers the bulk of you work will come from leaflets, so you need to know how much work they will actually bring in.
too many people come into carpet cleaning with the same plan as you but don't last 5mins.
this might sound harsh but if running a sucessfull bussiness was easy everyone would be doing it ;)
Mike
ps; when is someone going to have the bottle to say the are going to start as a Bait & switcher :o
-
Andy,
Bear in mind the Prochem courses are not recognised by the NCCA , so you would have to do NCCA courses as well if you wanted to join.
Cheers,
Doug
-
Totally agree with Mike, however going in from this angle makes your chances of making it much higher than if you go in blind.
It is very hard work but quality work will bring recommendation and no reason why this shouldn't happen from the start with the right training.
Doug
Why are the Prochem courses not recognised by the NCCA?
Seems the NCCA don't recognise much else but themselves?
BF Nicky
-
Hi Nicky,
I do not know why as I am not a member.
It does seem a shame that there are lots of training courses but with very little standardisation.
As I understandf it Altec/IICR and NCCA are in and Prochem, Extracta, Ashbys etc are out.
I d'ont know why but there are an awful lot of vested interests , perhaps too many to accomodate everyone.
Cheers,
Doug
-
Could one of the CC's who has attended both NCCA and prochem courses state whether there is any real difference?
I wished when starting out i had taken NCCA recognised training as opposed to prochem, it now seems i will have to shell out more money to get NCCA approval :(
Paul
-
Hi Andy
and welcome to Clean it up.
Looks like a sound and logical approach you've taken after much research. You quite often find that "Start up Packages" often include products you're unlikely to use, so may not be as good value as initially appears. Don't forget to budget for a good quality upholstery tool plus quite a few other bits and pieces. Probably another £500 plus in there :'(
Where are you from? Before buying, I'd suggest you pursue your line of accompanying an experienced CC first. When do you intend to start? Jan/Feb can be very slow. There's the Cleaning Show at the NEC in March '05 so this may work to your Advantage (pun?)
Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken
-
Likewise Paul.
However, there seems to be some benefit in taking the IICRC course instead of NCCA. Once passing the IICRC you can join NCCA but not the other way around.
BF Nicky
-
Thanks for the comments so far folks,
Apologies for the lack of location, thought I'd set up my profile well but missed out on the location part - now updated.
I'm based in Croydon, Surrey.
I plan on starting very early in the new year, which I know isn't the best time, but I'll give it my best shot!
If nothing else I'm persistent and will be focused on making a career of it eventually, even starting up in new year delivering my own leaflets in the wind & rain ;D
-
Andy
If I were starting out and before any decisions made, I would read up on the subject some thing like Chemspec book on Carpet Cleaning Manual that would give you some fundamentals before going on any course, you will also understand a lot more what the tutors are talking about.
Though I done the Prochem course many years ago (Mr Tilley) I can’t comment on their syllabus now. I’m a total advocate of the NCCA though not a member as yet, I would probably go down the route of IICR and become a member (shall we say via the back door) of the NCCA. Very sad!
I would also recommend that you take Ken’s advice up in finding a mentor.
Regarding leaflets some do some don’t, also target certain areas like Purely, Warlingham and a like, (parts of East Croydon not bad) remember you will have fierce competition, in this neck of woods from ½ price and ME then I don’t do leaflets the those areas. ;D
I wish you all the best in your new venture, hold off buying a machine though the ones you mentioned are good believe a new one on the block is coming soon, spec looks very good.
Len
-
Which machine are you refering to Len???
Paul
-
Paul
http://www.cleancraft.com/eclipse.html
Len
-
I should be one of the first in country to own one of these machines ;D i thought it may of been the eclipse you were refering to.
Paul :)
-
Hi Gays...apologies..should have been Guys...and of course Gals too
You are correct..at the present time the only courses recognised by the NCCA are the IICRC training courses.
There is no vested interest other than the IICRC Carpet / Upholstery Cleaning Standard procedures... the NCCA were part of the team responsible for putting the standard procedures together.
There is no reason for the NCCA not to accept other company's training providing we are all singing from the same hymn sheet...the same hymn...and also in tune.
We are working on it
Derek
-
Gays???? ;D
-
Derek, So having been trained by prochem will i be able to apply to join the NCCA in the near future?
Paul
P.S, I'm not gay ;D
-
Sorry Paul :-[
I have put in an ammendment leaving the faux pas in so that folk will know what you are talking about
Thanks for pointing it out
Derek
-
Paul
I didn't say that.... I said that we are working on it...
Derek
ps...in my youth 'Gay' meant a happy carefree person and nothing more
-
It did make me chuckle when i read it Derek :)
Paul
-
Hi folks,
I have attended both NCCA and IICRC courses so can tell you my personal view. I first attended the NCCA courses so long ago that the instructors of these days have either retired or died. The carpet and upholstery courses were quite separate whereas today the basic course is both subjects combined. Last year I re-attended with one of my sons and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Most of the attendees had either little or no experience, some deciding to do the course prior to finally making up their minds whether they wanted to be carpet cleaners or not. It is a really great way of getting the basics, being shown different machines and techniques and being able to ask questions before sitting the test paper. The facility they are currently using in Leicester is excellent and provides full facilities for meals and accommodation.
The IICRC courses have the time to go into more detail as they are each two days long. The amount of information and technical detail packed in along with the 180 question test papers can prove quite daunting to those with little or no experience. Most of the IICRC carpet or upholstery cleaning courses are arranged by Chemspec who hold them at different parts of the country including Scotland, Floodtech who are down in Farnham and Alltec who have a purpose built training facility near Royston. There is a carpet cleaning course at Alltec on Monday and some of my lads are coming down.
If you are new or don't have a great deal of experience I would recommend you attend the NCCA course 1st and then attend the two IICRC courses. If you have gone to Prochem or Ashbys you will probably have got enough under your belt to enjoy the IICRC courses. As you will know there is a full range of IICRC courses covering a number of speciality areas. Ruth Travis (The Rug Lady) who came from the States earlier this month to take the Colour Correction course started the course by having a quote on the board from Sandra Carey, "Never mistake knowledge for wisdom, one helps you make a living the other helps you make a life."
Alltec also arrange hands on days which although not counting towards NCCA membership do offer great background to a number of different areas.
-
I think the NCCA should move a little faster we have been banging on about this subject for nine months.
Anyway I have decided to tak be quick route and do NCCA course,
This should give me any crediability I might be lacking. Then do advanced courses if mood takes me.
How often is a full members meeting of the NCCA held in order that members can put motions to the board of directors.
How many motions do you have a year/
How many go to the full membership to vote.
Regards
Ian Now going to watch Casualty.
-
Derek
I know what you meant (hand on hip)
Care about hymns not pc should be song sheet.
Len
-
Len
At our age since when do we bother about being pc... ;) ;D
On the odd times that I am let into a church they sing hymns NOT songs...
Derek
-
Keith
What a dilemma do the NCCA or IICR. I wonder which is the most cost effective, leaving out accommodation etc.
Ian very sad Casualty! It’s like blank screen. As with most but if happy?
Len
-
why don't we forget about andys question and start harping on about the NCCA......... ooopps we are doing ::)
-
Derek
I do try, and then I like a debate.
Re phrase script sheet
Len
-
I started in this industry by at first attending the NCCA training course. I have however since completed the IICRC examination, and passed! Now the difference between both exams are immence, (in terms of knowledge), and i really do believe that the NCCA course exam is not strong enough to allow novices, such as i was!!! to go out to joe public and clean carpets. However i do feel that the IICRC course is!! Its very indepth and really does test the knowledge of the students taking the examination.
Now since the NCCA are part owners of the IICRC, and the IICRC exam is enough of a qualification to have automatic entry in the NCCA, why dont the NCCA use the IICRC examination as there there own quallification, there being that you if you pass the IICRC exam you dont have to set another. It would be much better to see a student pass a more intencisfied qualification.
Ian
-
Ian
There are several factors regarding examinations....both organisations use a 'multi-choice' format.
Speaking to a professional trainer a few months ago he painted the following scenario.
As an experiment he gave the delegates a blank sheet of paper with just the numbers of the questions/answers on it.
He the asked them to fill it in at random.
The questions were then added to the paper and the delegates achieved around a 50% pass....says something about multi-choice doesn't it.
The more worrying thing that the person I spoke to was involved with Police training!!!!!
Now people fail the multi-choice...what do you think the pass rate would be at a full blown written examination?
The NCCA used to do this for their three one-day courses and I can tell you from personal experience that each paper took over an hour to mark... now multiply that by the number of delegates and you have an awful lot of unpaid man/woman hours.
Running a Trade Association seems so very easy from the outside but in trying to be totally unbiased it can bring its own problems.
In answer to a previous question...
The members have a chance to influence NCCA policy at the AGM (held at CARPEX in early October)...they also can be proposed as a Director and join the 'happy' band who put an awful lot of hours in for 'free'
The NCCA is NOT a closed Association it is open to anyone who is willing to meet the criteria....for those who are not members who comment negatively about the NCCA.. I say to you ..join... get involved and you may have just the ideas to move things on...
Derek
-
Regarding the delemia do you want to join the trade assosiation or do you want to expand your knowledge,
I feel so that I counteract those warning adverts and any negetive info rival companies put out need to be a member of the NCCA
Also it was started by British people and although I watch US movies, like going to US and Canada I am British.
Dereck is correct many of us say things from the side lines about all organizations in the industry, which they might regard as unfair.
Im not convinced that one person joining the NCCA could set the Carpet Cleaning industry on fire, and to be honest, unless you are someone like Nick, you are unable to do so , and in reality as someone who tries to split himself into four and fails you are better off concentrating on building your own Business.
If I was Derek I would have thrown a wobbly by now and thrown my toys out of the pram.
For those who think Im sad watching Casualty I have been to a Manfreds concernt this week and a Lonnie Donegan tribute. I was looking at the audience and thinkinging were these the people who were into Drugs and Rock and Roll what happened they so recepectable.
Andy sorry nothing to do with your question.
-
Hi Len,
If your sole intention is to join the NCCA go to the NCCA course.
Realistically there is probably little financial benefit in being a member. It can be argued that there is a credibilitity benefit but that is hardly likely to be immediately tangible in financial terms. There are also credibility benefits in attending and passing the IICRC courses as you are able to posture yourself or your company. Together the two certainly helps you to posture yourself as an expert in the textile cleaning arena. That should in turn allow you to maximise the rates you charge for what you do.
I was a NCCA a number of years ago but lapsed largely through my view that it was run as an 'old boys club' particularly for the directors and the fact that it was likely that you never get a reply if you wrote to them.
Has that changed? Well...I am not sure, however, In my old age I decided that it would at least be a pleasant experience to part of the trade association and be able to be involved with other conscientious people. As Derek has said the directors and others like Ken Wainwright give freely of their time and experience to help others. I am quite sure that none of us really can appreciate the time it can take. It is going to be a long road before the association really becomes a national institution but it is up to all of us, if we are willing, to participate and help in whatever way we can.
Regards,
Keith
-
Hi all,
Andy, good luck with your new ventur :D My business plan is very similar and I'm now at the stage where I've done the courses and will pick up my machine in a couple of weeks. For the Public Liability and Treatment Risk insurance, speak to McGregor Lloyd based in Bradford I think 0121 7060616. They are associate members of the NCCA so you can be sure you get all the cover you need.
Best of luck.
Cheryl
-
Keith,
This is the point I have made on several occaisions , that if the NCCA became proactive in contacting those carpet cleaners who are successful in their own areas , and managed to get them to join it could be the kick start needed.
I d'ont know about other areas but the NCCA is virtualy invisible around here.It may be different in the midlands where the powerbase seems to exist.
I appreciate the desire not to be a cheque book organisation but a big push now could get Pawlo's wheel spinning a little faster.
Trying to be constructive,
Cheers,
Doug
-
Doug
I feel that the wheel is gathering momentum. A quick recollection of the figures quoted at the AGM suggests that membership has grown by about 20% in the last year.
Cheryl
When arranging your insurance, don't forget that if you have employees, whether full or part time, permanent or casual/occasional, a bucket carrier or fully trained tech, whether paid or not, then you are obliged to have Employers Liability cover too. My apologies if I have just increased your premium.
Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken
-
This NCCA issue seems to be an ongoing thing...
My point is that the Directors, Yes, many like me, have been around for a few years and could be said to be part of an 'old boy's network'
For the benefit of ourselves!!!!...that hurts.
Nick Heath a President of the NCCA some years ago calculated some figures during his year in office...he reckoned it cost him around £5,000 to be President and that was fifteen or so years ago.
The Directors all pay the same subscription as the members, they take calls from members, the public and other parties on a daily basis. They return calls to people all over the Country and it is almost unheard of for them to reclaim these costs
It certainly costs me and my business to be a Director of the NCCA.
Why do I do it...?
I personally get a buzz in helping other people.
I gain information that keeps me and ultimately the members informed of what is happening.
Someone mentioned Nick being an innovator... he certainly is within his field where the rewards he works for are his.
It is a different issue when you run your own business alongside that of the NCCA or other voluntary organisation.
Nick and I were on the Proclean steering committee together a few years back in an effort to relaunch it.
So come on don't moan... DO SOMETHING!
Derek
-
Kenneth
Sorry I got carried away and forgot to reply to a point you made about Insurance....
You had me scatting about (that's a technical term) for a newspaper article I saw this last week...it went..
The recent announcement that some of the smaller businesses need no longer take out Employers Liability insurance came as a huge relief for 300,000 sole traders.
Maybe we should be now renegotiating our own insurance policies...
Regards
Derek
-
Derek
is it posible to get a copy of the article about employers liability as Iwont emplor anybody mainly for that reason. Also I trust no-one ( but thats my problem)
Phil
-
Phil/Derek.
http://www.newbusiness.co.uk
Click on insurance then about sixth article down.
Cheers,
Doug
-
Phil
It is short article that was cut out of a local paper by my dearly beloved...as it is a cutting I have no knowledge as to which paper she got it from.
If you will let me have your fax number I can fax it through to you
Regards
Derek
-
thanks derek
01622 755952
phil
-
Its on its way....fingers crossed
Derek
-
Keith
Aren’t we replying to a newbie and replying from our experience/knowledge?
I was looking at the long term IICR covers other areas of the cleaning spectrum, not just one! Today he wants to be a cc tomorrow wants to do ff, how are we to know?
Don’t know about the ‘old boys club’ the ones I have contacted have been more than helpful remember I’m not a member. I understand you cynicism but at the end of the day they are also running there own business plus being directors of the NCCA what a juggling act!
Ian
I’m into nostalgia like emergency ward 10, it Casualty I have my doubts.
Len
-
Hi Andy
A lot of people get into carpet cleaning - some succeed and some fail.
There are two fundamental points I'd make:
You've clearly taken some time to help yourself by going through the the old posts looking for valuable information before asking your question. As they say, success is where hard work meets opportunity and I applaud you for taking the time to look into it in such detail.
Secondly, you actually have a plan and if you stick to it you will have a better chance than most of making it work. However, bear in mind that it is hard work and it is likely to take some time to establish a reasonable living!
Don't get too sidetracked by the different training courses available. The important thing is that you're prepared to invest in it in the first place. Personally, I don't think a single course is enough, and, if you're committed to offering a professional range of services, you're likely to have to do several anyway. All the courses mentioned are good and will give you a good start.
Good luck with it.
Mike Boxall
-
Hi Andy
Give me a call in the new year when you start, i work the CR area and i live in Morden so not too far away. If you need any help deciding what to do im a member of the NCCA and used to work for Prochem so i can give you am informed view, and perhaps you could come out and push a vaccuume around for a day ;D
Regards
Nick
-
Thanks for the New Business Link about insurance Doug. I noted that exemption for small family businesses is only in the discussion stage, so for now at least, you still require Employers Liability as an employer in any way.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
-
I did the NCCA course recently and then joined,great course
and 1 week after joining got a job from their web site.
Paul
-
Hi Len,
I am glad I re-joined the NCCA. I agree with you that it is a difficult task to run a successful business and take on onerous duties. Am I cynical? Possibly I am, although, I tend to think I suffer from realism rather than cynicism.
I think I originally viewed the IICRC with some suspicion even though I think it was around 1990 that I attended my 1st course. Finally they set up an UK office this year and I have completely changed my view. I have now attended 7 IICRC courses and my staff are also going through them one by one.
Not only do they help to expand your horizons but they can be used to reposture your business.
We are all encouraged these days to sell by imparting knowledge to our customers. What better way is there but to use the knowledge from the courses to help your clients.
Regards,
Keith
-
something tells me Andy wished he'd never asked.....
Are you still with us Andy?
-
Mike
I hope he is and if he would like to send me a pm a.s.a.p I have a job Friday 2pm in Mitcham a stones throw from Croydon!
Sorry Nick!
Len
-
I'm still here gents ;D. It's been great to get all the feedback over the last few weeks.
Did the NCCA 2 day course at the end of November - very interesting & a great insight into the business.
I'm just in the process of setting up, I only finished my 9 to 5 job last Friday so I've now got the time I need to get all the plans into action.
The car is now up for sale to pay for the van & equipment, so with any luck I'll be ready to start working in January - just when people have spent all their hard earned over Christmas & don't have clean carpets on the top of their priority list!
Len - thanks for the nod on the Mitcham job but sadly it's about 3-4 weeks to early for me, I'll need to get some more practice on friends and relatives carpets once the equipment has arrived before I unleash myself on an unsuspecting public.
Andy.
-
Not the best time of the year to start.
If I where you heres what Id do
Go out with a friendly cleaner for a few days to see if cleaning is for you. You'd be a fool to start a business with out doing research.
Access through market research if there is enough demand and quality housing in your area to sustain another business.
Do what Mike suggested regarding the flyers. Pass the work you get from these onto the friendly cleaner or book four weeks in advance.
If the above is all positive then go on the training course. Ive been on prochem and the NCCA. prochem is more practical and they push their products. Ncca is more theory based BUT NEEDS TO BECOME MORE PRACTICAL. (take note NCCA Directors). I would take the Prochem course to get you started and then go NCCA a few months down the road. Being an NCCA member will get you work indirectly ie. people perseive (sp) you as more professional. I've proved this so dont argue.
Buy your equipment. Buy secondhand as you can buy more for less and save for marketing. But dont buy tired looking crap. Remember your in the cleaning business so be clean. Dont buy starter packages as you'll never use most of the chemicals.
Get insured. Get professional business cards etc. Not DIY ones on your PC.
Start marketing. This will be your success or downfall. Learn marketing from these boards and good books. Marketing is telling so go out and knock doors. If you havent got 'the balls' to knock doors then being in business is not for you.
Make plans and keep to them ie. send out 50 letters a week, ring customers after the job, ask for referrals, delivery 1000 flyers etc.
Generally its all common sense. Look at a really professional service business that you know ie. plumber, gardener etc. Identify whats make them professional in their customers eyes. Identily an unprofessional and compare the differences. Try and see how your customer sees you and how you can always improve your service.
Here endeth todays sermon.
Mark
PS. why do you want to become a carpet cleaner?
-
Andy
Sorry I was not passing on the job what I meant you could come out with me! That’s why is said sorry Nick.
Len
-
Have you started yet Andy?
Give me a call if you need any help or want to come out for some work expirence
0800 977 5251
Nick