Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: davids3511 on September 19, 2007, 02:09:20 pm
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Dropped a few leaflets on one road the day before yesterday. Hadn't leafletted any other street in about 2 weeks. My mobile number is on the card but my wife happened to have it with her today.
She got a call about 1pm when on her way home from work, asking if she had anything to do with the window cleaning leaflet. She replied yes, it was her husbands. She was told the she had better make me back off or there would be big trouble. She asked if she was being threatned and the guy replied 'no, but your husband is'.
She arrived home and told me the story. She said there was two of them as they were talking to each other while speaking to her. I kinda saw red and as I knew exactly what street I had just kleafletted I went to see what exactly 'big trouble' was. Lo and behold, there are two window cleaners putting there ladders on a car on the street. I screeched to a stop and jumped out of the car. I asked if 'which of you t***s has been thretning my wife. The first thing the biggest sad was 'are ou the one who has been delivering leaflets', I said yes while asking him to repeat his threats to me. He sets off walking rather quickly down the street protesting his innocents with me in persuit shouting 'come on then where is your big trouble' and 'why aren't you threatning me'. He continued to run away.
He once stopped and took a stance as if he was going to hit me. I have in the past studied Jeet Kune Do and adopted a fighting stance in case he did actuallt try to hit me. He took one look and ran again. I gave up telling him was acoward for both hidinghis number and threatning a woman.
I know, I know it isn't very professional but I think the local guys need to know I am not going to be intimidated by these silly calls.
David
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I think you done the best thing.. They sound like a copple of bullies!.. Theres enough work to put dinner on all of our tables why get the ump when you find another window cleaner cleans in the same area as u ???
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I think I understand why this has happened. I met two window cleaners about 2 weeks ago on another estate while I was putting my leaflets out. I shook their hands and explained I wasn't there to undercut or steal customers. The head guy was really good about it and said I could leaflet away and if I took one of his customers he must have been doing something wrong and that there was plenty for everyone.
Now, on reflection, the guy who was with him two weeks ago was with this different guy today. I bet they read the leaflet and discussed quite, polite and mannerly old me and decided I was a push over and a threat would see me running for cover.
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I think I understand why this has happened. I met two window cleaners about 2 weeks ago on another estate while I was putting my leaflets out. I shook their hands and explained I wasn't there to undercut or steal customers. The head guy was really good about it and said I could leaflet away and if I took one of his customers he must have been doing something wrong and that there was plenty for everyone.
Now, on reflection, the guy who was with him two weeks ago was with this different guy today. I bet they read the leaflet and discussed quite, polite and mannerly old me and decided I was a push over and a threat would see me running for cover.
The right attitude, there should be tension, at the end of the day you are business rivals, but theres no such thing as owning customers in business.
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I think I understand why this has happened. I met two window cleaners about 2 weeks ago on another estate while I was putting my leaflets out. I shook their hands and explained I wasn't there to undercut or steal customers. The head guy was really good about it and said I could leaflet away and if I took one of his customers he must have been doing something wrong and that there was plenty for everyone.
Now, on reflection, the guy who was with him two weeks ago was with this different guy today. I bet they read the leaflet and discussed quite, polite and mannerly old me and decided I was a push over and a threat would see me running for cover.
The right attitude, there should be tension, at the end of the day you are business rivals, but theres no such thing as owning customers in business.
Quite right. Your customers are only your customers for as long as they choose to use you.
Never been threatened myself...here in SW London we work alongside and are civil as there's plenty of work for all of us.
Any new w/c on the block is welcomed but if he then started giving it the large would be told to f##k off in no uncertain terms.
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what i can not understand is..... if there is plenty work for all of us, then why leaflet where other window cleaners are already working???, are you so desperate that you need other w/cs leftovers?. please dont forget that they have probably been trying very hard to build that round and then up pops you. i dont agree with the threas, but if they explained the situation would you have backed off?
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if there is plenty work for all of us, then why leaflet where other window cleaners are already working???, are you so desperate that you need other w/cs leftovers?. please dont forget that they have probably been trying very hard to build that round and then up pops you.
how would they be trying hard to build up thier customers? they may be complacent! they may be poor at thier job, people move in people move out, some people like you some people don't, i think what you've said thier is pure garbage! fair game for all in my opinion!
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ive just been outside talking to the wc who cleans near my house!its all good karma man!!!
mrs scrim :-*
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All because a window cleaner works in one street does not mean that it belongs to him or anybody else.
Recently I have gained over 20 customers from one cleaner who use to treat his customers like dirt, I was recommended and now I have his business.
His reaction was to target the single elderly ladies on the round and covered their windows with dirt.
Now I know why they wanted a new cleaner.
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if there is plenty work for all of us, then why leaflet where other window cleaners are already working???, are you so desperate that you need other w/cs leftovers?. please dont forget that they have probably been trying very hard to build that round and then up pops you.
how would they be trying hard to build up thier customers? they may be complacent! they may be poor at thier job, people move in people move out, some people like you some people don't, i think what you've said thier is pure garbage! fair game for all in my opinion!
I agree with Nat. I'm not bothered if my work gets canversed or a leaflet put through & nore should anyone. You don't own your customer or "your patch". If you are honest, reliable, regular & do a top job most customers will stay with you.
A large majority of my customers have been on my round 10 years plus.
If a customer is not happy with their wc & i can see they are doing a bad job i will take them on only if they tell the other wc first. Most of the time i charge more so under cutting is never an issue.
I never make threats to other wc's first but i've had 1 or 2 over the years but i'm always willing
to play.
Macc
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@EVERCLEAN
What on earth are you talking about? You are obviously of the opinion that no startups should be allowed. If that was the case then the government should create licenses to operate for all areas and sell them off to the highest bidder, guaranteeing no competition. In other words, you want a monopoly. Why are some cleaners so insecure that they need a monopoly?
Can you explain where I can go that will not already have a window cleaner and how I should know this? Is there a map that shows windowcleanerless areas? If you had to wait for new builds, it would take years to build a decent round.
As for 'but if they explained the situation would you have backed off', would I hell as like but I wouldn't have set out to steal their customers, nor would I have undercut them.
David
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Just to clarify that last post, I still won't specifically target their customers nor will I undercut them.
By the way, he has been on to my wife again, whinging that I am a bit mad and that it isn't on chasing him down the street. She said to speak to me direct so I am expecting a phone call at 6pm!
Will update you all later if you are interested.
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what i can not understand is..... if there is plenty work for all of us, then why leaflet where other window cleaners are already working???, are you so desperate that you need other w/cs leftovers?. please dont forget that they have probably been trying very hard to build that round and then up pops you. i dont agree with the threas, but if they explained the situation would you have backed off?
This is a joke right??
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Just to clarify that last post, I still won't specifically target their customers nor will I undercut them.
By the way, he has been on to my wife again, whinging that I am a bit mad and that it isn't on chasing him down the street. She said to speak to me direct so I am expecting a phone call at 6pm!
Will update you all later if you are interested.
Let him know nore is making threats to your wife towards you on the phone. He was the one acting all tough etc so if he dont want to get chased he should keep it shut..
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Yes very interested! Get old bill involved if he threatens again. Him and his mate sound total tossers who need taking down a peg or 2...who do they think they are?...the f##king Kray twins or something?
Your response to Everclean is spot on.
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post his number on here and let us give him some advice in how to operate wc fairly! ;D
i'm sure he'd get the message after 50 phone calls! ;)
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Like all bullies he withheld his number. ::)
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He's 7 minutes late!!. I bet he is going to try and come over all hard to try and regain some ground after he ran away today. Easy when on the phone, wasn't quite so clever when faced with me.
He is denying he made the phone call but when I got out of the car I said 'which one of you t***s rang my wife and threatned her'. The very first words he said were 'are you the guy who has being delivering leaflets'. If he didn't make the call how did he know who I was? I could have been an irate customer, I could have mistaken his identity, I could just have been a general nutter so how did he know?
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Next time you see them, if your with someone get them to
go over & get a card, make out they will be in contact with
them soon. ;)
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mac, i doubt a thick bully boy like that would have the brains to carry a card
if he does it prob reads "you can contact me on.......withheld number" :)
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why leaflet where other window cleaners are already working???
How can you be sure there are no window cleaners in some towns/streeets.... you would have to sit in your car for a month untill they come?? ... then when u see them what do you do??? rule that street out ? lol would take years to build a round
Putting leaflets about is free... if ur customer is happy with the work you do they will not get a new cleaner even if it was half price
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if somebody else was offering a service at half the price and looked pro i think it would make a few people think twice.
not been funny here but if i seen someone on my work areas etc i would go over and say something to them(nice warning first)and if there did get any and i seen them its gameover no more window cleaning for them.why sould we build a good business/living for someone to come in and try to take money out of my pocket.
thats my point of veiw tho,i just hate people coming in trying to get customers off another windowcleaner ;D
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if you do a good enough job then you have nothing to worry about! if they take them off you then its something you've done not them! and if they are undercutting and your custy goes for it then they ain't worth having anyway
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if you do a good enough job then you have nothing to worry about! if they take them off you then its something you've done not them! and if they are undercutting and your custy goes for it then they ain't worth having anyway
Totally agree with you!
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I beginning to think twice now about trying to get customers via posting business cards :-[
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Dazza
Don't be put off mate, there is loads of work out there for all, so fill your boots.
If you see another w/c go & speak to them & have a chat, that's what I do and it always goes well, they always appreciate you talking to them, and you get lots of info about areas they don't bother with & stuff like that.
Go for it.
Cheers
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iam sick of hearing this is my patch cr.p if a house holder has sacked there previous window cleaner for what ever reason they have the right to choose another cleaner.i dont belive in undercutting though trouble can start then
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not been funny here but if i seen someone on my work areas etc i would go over and say something to them(nice warning first)and if there did get any and i seen them its gameover no more window cleaning for them.why sould we build a good business/living for someone to come in and try to take money out of my pocket.
thats my point of veiw tho,i just hate people coming in trying to get customers off another windowcleaner ;D
I assume you have sent a map of your area to everybody thinking of starting up, and / or other window cleaners in your town?
At the end of the day, until the government install a licensing system which gives you a specific area in which you can ply your trade I will continue to canvass wherever I please. Saying this, I would not actively recruit people who state that they have a WC already. I would simply say 'ok, thanks for your time' and go to the next house.
As I have said before, competition is good for the customer. Those who do not like competition are insecure of their ability to keep their customers. This may say a lot about either their prices or their quality.
Today a WC came up to me as I did a clean on 'his' patch. He was very pleasant and just asked me about how long I had been running and where I might be looking to do my work. I explained that I was actually out of area and that I had been asked by the householder to do the job when I was cleaning for a regular customer.
He normally cleans this house and sasked what I was charging. I told him 12.50 for the first clean and 10 for the normal clean. He nearly fell over!! He was charging them a fiver.
He then asked if I wanted to buy his round! (so there is a round for sale in Leicester if anyone wants it Ill put you in touch with him...)
If a WC is providing a better quality of work, he will get the customer more often than the cheap, shoddy WC.
If you feel you need to give 'friendly' warnings to others on 'your' patch, maybe you should try pleasing your customers with your work, with your prices or with your customer service then they would be happy to say ' No thanx, I have a window cleaner...' to any competition.
How childish to suggest that you would end the cleaning career of anybody who ignores your 'warnings'.
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but ffs we all have to put food on the table, not just you established guys...
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i once got told by a window cleaner that "he owned this street"
i looked at him and said "all these house, what the hell are you window cleaning for then"
he just walked away desperatly trying to work it all out.
i ended up picking up most of them due to the fact he was rubbish
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First of all fair play to you david I hate telephone tough guys - I would have lost my rag same as you did, threatening is out of order! and like others have said on here how are you supposed to know who cleans who's thats just madness - im setting up myself and am doing leaflet drops myself, im not into undercutting or stealing work just looking for new business and building a decent round.
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not been funny here but if i seen someone on my work areas etc i would go over and say something to them(nice warning first)and if there did get any and i seen them its gameover no more window cleaning for them.why sould we build a good business/living for someone to come in and try to take money out of my pocket.
thats my point of veiw tho,i just hate people coming in trying to get customers off another windowcleaner ;D
You sound like a bully.
I would like to hear your "nice warning" because my reply would not be very nice or healthy.
I worked in the taxi trade and I have forgotton how many people wanted to give me a "nice warning" over the phone, somehow they changed their mind when I was knocking on their front door 15 mins later.
My mother told me to respect people but she would knock the crap out of me if I let a bully get his way over me or the family.
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The other window cleaners I know are mostly really nice guys, in fact I spend too much time talking to them. If I see another guy working near me, I will often go over for a chat, moan about the weather as you do. Plenty of work for us all and if I can point a newbie in the right direction, I will. Guess you mellow with age. Dai
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iam sick of hearing this is my patch cr.p if a house holder has sacked there previous window cleaner for what ever reason they have the right to choose another cleaner.i dont belive in undercutting though trouble can start then
I agree.. I had a customer ring me 2day asking for me to clean her winodws... The guy she got rid of is a cleaner i know and he does nearly all the house's in the street.... now im going there to do 1 of them..
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if somebody else was offering a service at half the price and looked pro i think it would make a few people think twice.
not been funny here but if i seen someone on my work areas etc i would go over and say something to them(nice warning first)and if there did get any and i seen them its gameover no more window cleaning for them.why sould we build a good business/living for someone to come in and try to take money out of my pocket.
thats my point of veiw tho,i just hate people coming in trying to get customers off another windowcleaner ;D
i see on your profile you give your age as 1, sounds about right (profile now changed to 22)
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heres me a newbie trying to build a round and be professional,listening to this crap you had all better pull your socks up,and i am not a spring chicken,nearly enough listening to these posts to make me feel ashamed of calling myself a window cleaner.
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yep you're right. So much more can be gained from working together rather than against.
What amazes me is that you stick a squeegee in someones hand for a few months, and people think they can throw their weight around cos they've gaine a bit of "muscle!" ::)
It's shameful that people can think they have a right to an area. How deluded is that?
Which reminds me i must delete my post before andyp wakes up! :-*
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heres me a newbie trying to build a round and be professional,listening to this crap you had all better pull your socks up,and i am not a spring chicken,nearly enough listening to these posts to make me feel ashamed of calling myself a window cleaner.
This is a FORUM what do you expect.. The forum is here for everyone to post there views.. ::)
If we wasnot posting it would be dead :P
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Update on yesterday.
Spoke to the guy yesterday at about 6.30, and had the usual back and forth argument for about 10 minutes. He kept saying it wasn't anything to do with him and that if he had been in the position of wanting a word with me, he would never have spoken to my wife, never mind threatened her. He did pretty much have an answer for everything I put to him. In the end I believed him, after we both calmed down we met up and in the end laughed about it.
He did however tell me who he suspected was behind it. He said there was only one in the town who would do that and he was pretty disliked by everyone including his customers which is probably why he is so insecure.
However, I don't see that I can do anything more or I will just make the situation worse and get myself in trouble. I can't go to have a word with this guy because I am only going on gossip and hearsay and I don't really want the trouble. I just want to get on with earning some money and be left alone.
However, I suspect yesterday will not be a complete loss. I would imagine word will get out that you either leave me alone and we can all be friends or if you threaten big trouble, I will might just come looking for you.
I know it isn't very professional and doesn't sound good but unfortunately sometimes it needs to be known you have an edge to you, otherwise people (especially when they think there personal patch is under threat) will see if they can take advantage of a perceived weakness.
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I beginning to think twice now about trying to get customers via posting business cards :-[
Hi Dazza
Don't let my experience put you off. From reading this forum I think I am just unlucky to be getting so much hassle. You also need to remember, if it was easy, everyone would do it. I don't just mean window cleaning, I mean anything worthwhile will have its demands but will have its rewards if you stick at it.
You would also be playing right into the hands of the fools who make this type of phone call and would be letting them win.
One thing that I haven't done is put my address on my leaflet. I know most will think that is a mistake but I think when you are new to an area and maybe going to get some trouble, it is easier to relax after getting a call like that if you are secure that they at least do not know where you live. An address on a leaflet can come later after I have got established and the other cleaners know me.
David
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good reply Sanity and windowwashers.
the bottom line is a hate people on the dole trying to go round getting beer money by cleaning windows at a cheap price "undercutting" why should i make a really good round for someone to offer cheap prices and kill the trade
in the newcastle area it happen all the time thats why this topic got to me.normally i just sit back and read read and read
if its happened to you you may feel alittle different towards it
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Dazza,
Not long after we started window cleaning Wor Lass and I were heavily threatend by two idiots (father and son) who even intimated a threat towards our Little Un. They said they knew which school she went to! This was face-to-face outside a Tescos car park.
Of course I wanted to go 'Geordie' on them, but was restrained by Wor Lass, the thought of bricks through our window, and getting kicked all over the place; so we called the police who were okay, but it still put a real downer on us.
I think that was our worst month ever in window cleaning; we didn't leaflet; nor did we do much work, money was tight. We weren't scared, not really, it was just a real downer; what a crap job?! I must admit I did carry a 'tool' in my pouch after that for a while; couldn't sleep and wanted to take 'direct action' big style.
I/we got over it though. The window cleaner who threatened me doesn't clean windows anymore; I haven't seen him in years now (I'm pretty sure he's a 'druggie').
The rest of my local window cleaners are great; there's Ian_Giles, Squeaks, Tommo, John_H, another John, Matt and Ollie, Simon G, Terry P, and even though some of 'em don't like each other 'cos they've poached accounts from each other; we still all pretty much a friendly bunch, or at least maintain a professional 'stand off'.
Dazza, if you're new to window cleaning and an established window cleaner feels threatend; take it as a compliment.
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(father and son) who even intimated a threat towards our Little Un. They said they knew which school she went to!
This is just pushing the boat out to far! Out of this world... They must be a right pair of useless worthless scumbags... Makes my blood boild just reading it >:(
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yes there are no rights for window cleaners to own certain areas but when you have bought a round for example,the seller often states...
i am selling you this part of the estate ,i have been cleaning it for the past 5 years,the other part of the estate is cleaned by john smiths window cleaners and we have our own defined areas...ie if a customer asked me to go on his side i wouldn,t i would contact j smiths and pass the job on to him,he would also do the same for me.
i would never canvass any established estate were the windows are clean..iWHATS THE POINT EVERYONE KEEPS SAYING THERES PLENTY OF WORK TO GO ROUND.In my area people work together not against each other. c***s tricks like that peoples front teeth could be unloosened BUT fairplay on new build estates all the business is up for grabs
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So what happens if some of your customers are not happy with you , your attitude or the job you do? Just because you 'think' they belong to you, they don't actually and no amount of loosening front teeth will change that.
The problem with playing dentist is that you will eventually come up against one better than you who will put you out of action for a few months while they take your round over.
What about established estated where the existing cleaner is complacent, too busy or just lazy? Do the people there have to put up with it because cvdewsbury has decreed it so and that the way its going ot be or its into the dentist chair for you?
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And to address your point of buying a round. You are buying the customers goodwill, not a license to be the exclusive cleaner in an area. If that goodwill is worth anything, no amount of canvassing by another will hurt that and that is why up to 5x is asked sometimes.
However, if your goodwill is not as solid as it should be, then instead of trying to be a tooth remover you should maybe look at why the goodwill is no longer there. Reappraise your business model, your approach, your attitude, your look and so on. If you ignore the problems with customer satisfaction and loyalty, some big boys are going to come along who you can't frighten off and take it all away.
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yes there are no rights for window cleaners to own certain areas but when you have bought a round for example,the seller often states...
i am selling you this part of the estate ,i have been cleaning it for the past 5 years,the other part of the estate is cleaned by john smiths window cleaners and we have our own defined areas...
cvdewsbury, if a person has bought a round with that type of guarantee then they have been blagged good and proper.
There is no way anyone can tell if this house or that house has a window cleaner, some windows might look clean but i could only ever tell by getting close up and staring at them. Every estate has at least 1 window cleaner and most have several, but there is no estate where all the houses have a window cleaner.
Why do people think they have automatic first rights on customers who don't yet have a wc just because they have a presence in the area???
That is human nature at its worst.
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Hi Windowwashers
I agree it is getting out of hand but unfortunately for me that is the reality at this moment. I have put out about 500 leaflets since I started, have picked up about 30 customers, every single one of which didn't currently have a cleaner yet both I and my wife have been threatned to back off by two different window cleaners both of which make threats from hidden numbers.
As for 'we are hear for window cleaning' well, I think this seems to be an integral part of it.
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Hi
Yes, I agree. What I try to do is introduce myself to any window cleaners I see when I am working and assure them I am not after stealing their customers nor am I going to undercut them. The face to face reaction is usually positive, the worst so far was one guy who obviously wasn't impressed but remained polite.
It's the phone bullies that get me going but like I said in an earlier post, nothing worth doing is easy.
It reminds me a little of Duncan Bannatyne, in his early days a rival ice cream van tried to bully him out of business. He went straight after the guy who backed down and off Bannatayne went on his way to his £170m. Not that I am saying I am another Bannatayne, just that everything worthwhile has its problems to be overcome.
David
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Like I mentioned earlier I am building my new business and am thinking of leaflet dropping my own estate I know of 3 window cleaners on my estate 1 of which lives a stones throw away literally - Before I do the drop do you think I should knock his door and have a word with him explaining that im not undercutting or stealing work but just looking for new business and if I put a leaflet through 1 he cleans to not worry im not poaching! What do you think he's response will be - will he apprieciate me knocking his door or get the hump?
Thanks
Andy
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What you need to remember is that you are in business to make a living, so if you cannot go hear or there or anywhere else because someone is already trading on that area then you will go very hungry.
There are "no go areas" if there were a hundred cleaners on 1 estate and you wanted to canvass that area then off you go and canvass.
As for pricing, before you start a business it is wise to draw up a "Business Plan" this shows how you intend to trade, how you will get your customers also how much money you need to live on. After all of these and other figures are worked out you will then know what to charge.
So after you have done a "Business Plan" you should have an idea what to charge to make sucessful business from. If this figure is more than your competitors, then it is more, the same applies if the figure is less than your competitors.
Most cleaners who have been trading for years, treat their work area as their own back yard and because they have not had to canvass for new customers for years they get scared that they will lose all if some newbie comes onto their "patch".
When wfp cleaning started most trad cleaners didn't give it a second thought and many thought it was a fad and would go away soon, alas for them it hasn't, instead it has allowed more people who would never have taken up a ladder and clean into the industry, this is good news especially for people who couldn't get a cleaner.
In all the other trades were cash paying customers are the normal way of earning a living (Ice Cream Sellers-Taxi Drivers-Burger Vans etc) there have been the ugly element, these "chaps" are the same you use to have at school, they were scared, inmatured bullies who would ether cry or stamp their feet if they didn't get their own way.
They will not go away but they also know that at the end of the day the can't threaten "everybody" they know that some will make a stand, then you will find their true colours will show and they will go away.
For those who are new to the trade and this topic is putting you off the trade, I would like to welcome you and say, there are thousands of cleaners on this forum and others who are only to willing to help you with any problems you might have, so don't be put off by 1 or 2 bad apples in the barrel.
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20 yrs ago when i started my window cleaning career there was an unwritten rule that people purchased a round,got on with other window cleaners and stayed on there own patch thats how it worked.............re the teeth loosening part of it,ive never had any fisty cuffs with anyone,as you find out if you do a good job,keep your price reasonable, get on with the customer and build up that trust the customers don,t want to change..
Finally if one of you canvarses leaflet someones street and get one customer would you go back to clean it cos surely can,t be a finacially worth it ?
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unwritten rule dont canvasse other peoples work if u havent got enough 2 keep you going buy some work dont do the dirty you wouldnt like it
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unwritten rule dont canvasse other peoples work if u havent got enough 2 keep you going buy some work dont do the dirty you wouldnt like it
So, how do you know where is 'other peoples work' and where isn't?
As I have said, until the government introduce licences and allocate certain areas, I will canvas where I please. If the customers are happy they will tell me they have a WC and I will bid them a good day. If they are not happy, I might get a customer.
Moral of the story? Only those who may not be keeping their customers happy have anything to wory about others canvassing 'their' patch...
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What a load of utter crap, these people that keep going on about unwritten rules. What you really mean is that you want a rule that says no matter how crap/expensive/unorganised/unplesant/late/poor workman you are, you think nobody should have a right to canvass your customers. If this was really how the world worked we would still be in the stone age because the neanderthals would still be running the show.
Also, the problem with there so called unwritten rules is that everyone has a different take on them, if you take them all into consideration you can't fart without a local windowcleaner meeting and a reading of the unwritten rules to see if you are contravening any. Most seem to be made up or embellished on the spot anyway.
If I seem to be getting frustrated, I am. I can't believe the drivel some people are coming out with. How is it doing the dirty to not take any other window cleaners current customers and not undercut. Once you stick to those 'unwritten rules' all is fair.
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everybodys got different ways of looking at some firm windowcleaner coming onto "there patch" i bought my round and build it up putting alot of unpaid work in i.e pricing jobs etc thats personally why i dont like it.
ive have canvassed a couple of times on new houses and when i knock i would say do you want your windowscleaned blah blah and if there said ive already got one id say ok thanks for your time.dont mind that but when people undercut aaaaarrrrrrrrrr
question:why would you want to canvass an area/street/house knowing that its already getting cleaned?
no silly answers
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aup andy ..only answer i can give you to that is there must be a shortage of dentists within their vicinity
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if people r unhappy with the work they will get another cleaner if i was unhappy with my gardner id get rid of him and find someone else .i get many leaflets through the letter box 4 gardners all i think is there desperate 4 work id rather get one through word of mouth like 50% of my work.just sad people canvasse other peoples work
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I take your point about a single house but how can you know a whole street or area is getting cleaned. If I knew a house had a cleaner, I wouldn't waste my time putting a leaflet in the door.
I don't accept the 'you only have to look at the windows' answer to that. They can look ok for months without a clean.
I don't understand the 'putting alot of unpaid work in'. Do you work for someone else or are you self employed? If self employed, that remark makes no sense as you are out touting for business. Actually cleaning the windows is only part of the job.
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just sad people canvasse other peoples work
Some1 please tell me i read this wrong... HOW DO YOU KNOW IF THERE IS A WINDOW CLEANER In A STREET?
The window cleaning market is FREE , FREE for all window cleaners to gain work where and when they please.. How are people sad for gaining customers in areas that other window cleaners clean... when you put a leaflet through some1's door you are keeping that persons options open for when they do need a new cleaner.. or maybe they dont have one..
What a stupid comment
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@ HENRYROBERTS
That's great for you, you are already on a round. What you want is for it to be impossible for others to get on one.
If you are trying to get into the industry, how are you supposed to pick up customers by word of mouth?Don't say 'new builds' because with existing window cleaners and new window cleaners going for them, you would take a long time to build a round you could live off.
All these unwritted rules seem to benifit only the existing window cleaner. Why isn't there one that says any new build estate cannot be canvassed of leafletted by an established window cleaner to give new blood to the industry? Seems some of you guys want your bread buttered on both sides.
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first you have 2 part with some cash and buy a small round work is always 4 sale in my local window cleaning suppliers[bradford ladders] and if you do a good job you will always pick up more work as 4 new estastes its up 4 grabs
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@ andyp
If the round that you purchased was protected like you would like it to be, IE nobody allowed to canvass or leaflet, it would have cost you a well of alot more than whatever you paid for it. Look how the mobile phone operators nearly bankrupted themselves for exclsuive 3g licenses.
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thats grand once you have another form of income and no mortgage or children but isn't going to work if you need to be up and running quickly.
As for your new estates comment, I guess you totally missed my point.
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Best thing is to paint a big "X" on the front doors of your customers then we'll all know where not to canvas.
Really,,,,,,what crap some folks spout ::)
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That's a good point about the local window cleaning suppliers though. Anybody know who the local supplier is in cheshire/manchester? I purchase everything ove rthe internet so don't know.
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What about using that doorknockers firm?
Pay them to build you a round.
Slip em a few extra quid and tell em to 'bash up' and steal the gear of any Wc's they come across on their travels.
That should clear the way for you.
Alert all the local dentists in the area first though!
Just joking!
No offence, but Wc's in general, are not known for their intelectual prowess. Window cleaning is a male dominated sport, so you should expect a bit of testosterone to fly around every now and then. How else can they get their opinion across?
"Uugh!...front teeth... Uugh!" Is perfectly understandable to me.
It means. "Hi there, how are you doing? I see you have found the area I normally work. Please don't offer to clean the local dentists window, I normally do that and I know him very well!"
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if they cannot communicate it in the most eloquent of fashions...
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If the round that you purchased was protected like you would like it to be, IE nobody allowed to canvass or leaflet, it would have cost you a well of alot more than whatever you paid for it. Look how the mobile phone operators nearly bankrupted themselves for exclsuive 3g licenses.
the rounds i have are all really compact every street i do at the most there will be 4/5 houses i dont clean and i have a big round not going into figures tho.
the work i do has been cleaned for the last 20year by the same people before i took over and are really really good customers but ive only had my newest cus about 1and a half years
im the only windowcleaner in the area thats why im abit funny about stuff like this and its my living at the end of the day.this is why i always make the lads do a good job because i dont want another windowcleaner in the same area as me if someone gets in you never know whats going to happen plus you dont need the stress
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What area do you live in andyp :) i have a few leaflets spare :D
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What area do you live in andyp :) i have a few leaflets spare :D
ha ha LIKE IT
top secret ;D
done like saying stuff on here because you dont know whos who :-X
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everybodys got different ways of looking at some firm windowcleaner coming onto "there patch" i bought my round and build it up putting alot of unpaid work in i.e pricing jobs etc thats personally why i dont like it.
ive have canvassed a couple of times on new houses and when i knock i would say do you want your windowscleaned blah blah and if there said ive already got one id say ok thanks for your time.dont mind that but when people undercut aaaaarrrrrrrrrr
question:why would you want to canvass an area/street/house knowing that its already getting cleaned?
no silly answers
Andyp
I clean in various parts of Birmingham, does this mean that I own the rights to be the only cleaner in Birmingham.
I did not buy my way into window cleaning, instead I have used hard graft by knocking doors- advertisng and finding good and bad customers, I now have a decent amount of customers who I don't own, if some other cleaner comes onto the area who offers a better service for the price and he gets the job, then I only myself to blame.
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So should I knock his door or not? I gonna leaflet estate anyway surley he dosn''t clean every one on the estate, just thought it would be proffesional of me to give him a knock - and you never know his round might be full - he might pass on some work - it could go either way I suppose he's either gonna be nice or tell me to clear off!
Andy
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So should I knock his door or not? I gonna leaflet estate anyway surley he dosn''t clean every one on the estate, just thought it would be proffesional of me to give him a knock - and you never know his round might be full - he might pass on some work - it could go either way I suppose he's either gonna be nice or tell me to clear off!
Andy
Andy
No I don't think you should knock his door, its like you are asking permission to work his "area".
Instead carry on working and if you meet on the street, then you can indroduce yourself as the new cleaner on the block.
99.99% of cleaners will not mind, the other 0.01% don't really register.
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So should I knock his door or not? I gonna leaflet estate anyway surley he dosn''t clean every one on the estate, just thought it would be proffesional of me to give him a knock - and you never know his round might be full - he might pass on some work - it could go either way I suppose he's either gonna be nice or tell me to clear off!
Andy
Andy
No I don't think you should knock his door, its like you are asking permission to work his "area".
Instead carry on working and if you meet on the street, then you can indroduce yourself as the new cleaner on the block.
99.99% of cleaners will not mind, the other 0.01% don't really register.
Thats a good point - I never thought of it that way ;)
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So should I knock his door or not? I gonna leaflet estate anyway surley he dosn''t clean every one on the estate, just thought it would be proffesional of me to give him a knock - and you never know his round might be full - he might pass on some work - it could go either way I suppose he's either gonna be nice or tell me to clear off!
Andy
Andy
No I don't think you should knock his door, its like you are asking permission to work his "area".
Instead carry on working and if you meet on the street, then you can indroduce yourself as the new cleaner on the block.
99.99% of cleaners will not mind, the other 0.01% don't really register.
Thats a good point - I never thought of it that way ;)
Thats was my good point.
I was first to use it and I own the copyright to it.
Nobody is allowed to use this.
as its mine mine mine mine mine, my Precious is mine ;D ;D
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lol
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So should I knock his door or not? I gonna leaflet estate anyway surley he dosn''t clean every one on the estate, just thought it would be proffesional of me to give him a knock - and you never know his round might be full - he might pass on some work - it could go either way I suppose he's either gonna be nice or tell me to clear off!
Andy
Andy
No I don't think you should knock his door, its like you are asking permission to work his "area".
Instead carry on working and if you meet on the street, then you can indroduce yourself as the new cleaner on the block.
99.99% of cleaners will not mind, the other 0.01% don't really register.
Thats a good point - I never thought of it that way ;)
Thats was my good point.
I was first to use it and I own the copyright to it.
Nobody is allowed to use this.
as its mine mine mine mine mine, my Precious is mine ;D ;D
Myyyyyyy Prescious lol nice one.
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williamx read my last post then you may get abit more info about my work
right one more question:how many of yous on here have a really compact round and by really compact i mean next door next door next door and so on then when you get to the end of that street you start the next street not just a handful of houses in a street then a 5min drive and a couple more?
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As I said...
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Great thread even though a bit frustrating at times. ;D
If you are the only cleaner in an area then you are very much the exception. It's only a matter of time before that will change. But you ain't never gonna keep hold of it through fear, that's for certain. You will keep hold of it by giving a good sevice.
As for this unwritten rules lark, these people are peeing in the wind. Times are changing. I agree it is bad form to knowingly chase another cleaners work. But how will they know?
I'm sure i've picked up work off other cleaners but i've declined to quote on a good 20 or so jobs cos they've told me about their other cleaner at the time. A couple of times i've put in really high quotes (i think) and been declined after they've come round from fainting. Then comes "my old wc only charged..." heeheehee
If someone had pinched your work for a higher price they have really done you a favour, by pushing prices up. You've just got to capitalise on it.
I would like it if new kids on the block are banned 'cos i could if i wanted do a crap job in half the time i do now, charge double and still have people wanting to see me. Happy days!! ;D That has never nor will it ever happen. Some people need to wake up.
There has to be some realism about our situation.
We can never stop new people coming into the trade.
We might think we're tough cos we've got a bit of muscle on us now but we can't fight everyone for daring to do the same as us. Hypocrisy.
We can't expect to do a crap job and know it will continue forever.
We can't force the public to use us instead of another.
We don't OWN an area. Gangsters we ain't.
Cos we bought a round off joe scrim 30 years ago doesn't mean we can expect to keep them, cos he told us he made an agreement with billy soap over a pint of mead when they were fighting in the trenches.
We do have the right to be peed off if someone is coming in and driving down prices. Everyone loses that way.
We can limit any damage to our round by doing a good job regularly. Price doesn't seem to come into it if people are happy with our service.
We will never stop new people coming into the game.
We can protect ourselves better by helping new wc out by offering pricing advice and passing over any work we don't want or can't do.
In fact that's all we can do. Keep the prices stable or on the up then it is down to service.
It's been a real good thread this and fair play to everyone for not getting offended.
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question:why would you want to canvass an area/street/house knowing that its already getting cleaned?
no silly answers
I have been cleaning 2 customers houses in one road who saw my advert in the paper and called me, I priced the job which was more than their other cleaner and got the job.
This road has about 60 to 70 houses on it and I was surprised that these 2 ladys didn't have a cleaner, they replied that they sacked their previous cleaner because his work was shoddy and when they pulled him up about it he then threaten and verbally abused them, I decided not to canvass the estate.
Now 2 weeks ago I turn up and clean these 2 ladys and the next night one phones me up with a list of 12 neighbours who want me as their cleaner, I went out last saturday and cleaned them all, they also used to employ this other cleaner, they all sacked him because of his behaver and shoddy workmanship.
I now intend to target the rest of the houses with leaflets and door to door canvassing, also all of the ladies are going to go around and reccomend me as well.
The reason I am going to target this cleaners work is the fact that he does a crap job and when its pointed out to him he has a temper tamtrum.
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williamx read my last post then you may get abit more info about my work
right one more question:how many of yous on here have a really compact round and by really compact i mean next door next door next door and so on then when you get to the end of that street you start the next street not just a handful of houses in a street then a 5min drive and a couple more?
It looks like I will have one road which is going to be very compacted ;D but most of my work is spread out.
This I quite enjoy as it breaks the day up, I use to work in a factory once and it use to do my head in doing the same thing all the time, the same can happen when you are cleaning one house after the other that are identical.
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everybodys got different ways of looking at some firm windowcleaner coming onto "there patch" i bought my round and build it up putting alot of unpaid work in i.e pricing jobs etc thats personally why i dont like it.
ive have canvassed a couple of times on new houses and when i knock i would say do you want your windowscleaned blah blah and if there said ive already got one id say ok thanks for your time.dont mind that but when people undercut aaaaarrrrrrrrrr
question:why would you want to canvass an area/street/house knowing that its already getting cleaned?
no silly answers
I canvassed an area on thursday night with my leaflets that you put in your window if you want me to call back and give you a price. On only the second house an old lady came chasing me out to tell me there was already an existing window cleaner and there was no point in leafletting. I said ok, thanks for the information but I leafletted anyway, about 40 houses. This morning I have had 10 leaflets in the windows and got 6 new jobs from that estate. The all said they would not use the existing window cleaner because it was a 2 week clean take it or leave it situation. They just didn't want a 2 week turn around. Am I in the wrong, for the record, I do not believe I am.
David
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David
No your not wrong.
We all have to remember that we are in the service industry and its the customers that matter, if they want a different cleaning package than what we offer, then we have a choise, to adapt or lose out to someone who is willing to offer them what they want.
The days when there use to be a shortage of window cleaners is now ending, its time to change you business practices or someone else will move in and take over.
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david
i would say your not doing nothing wrong unless your undercutting.if the ex windowcleaner cant clean monthly/6weeks to keep the customer happy hes knows there will want another cleaner simple as that ;D
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Andy
You kept saying so long as you are not undercutting on price.
What would you do if a customer was being overcharged? would you quote more for the job? or would you quote your normal price? which just happens to be cheaper than the other cleaner.
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when i say undercut i mean no silly prices.ull neva no if the customer was ben ova charged unless u pop the question to them how much did the last cleaner charge?and if it was high i would go in at the same/more coz thats wot there r paying anyway.this depends on the property tho but on the otha hand you mite think a tena is a good price swings in roundabouts
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What about the cleaner who is overcharging, you know that he charges say £10.00 for a house but because the customers has a merc or roller he now charges £25.00, is that what a professional cleaner is? or is he a cowboy?
What if its a pensioner who's a bit confused? he now charges her more and she will be happy to pay this because she trusts him.
Every window cleaner has his set rate for the job, but now he see ways of making more money from the vunerable or desperate people who want a cleaner and can't find one.
We are all in business to make money and pricing your jobs correctly is very important, underprice and you will go bust, overprice and you won't get the work, but to overcharge because you can get away with it, is this the professional image we are happy with.
Do Sainsburys or Tescos charge the same prices or do they charge more because thats what the other shop was charging, no they don't, they try to offer their products at the cheapest rate possible. The reason for this is they want the customers, they want to make the maximum amount they can, they know that if you charge a little less but sell more then you make more of a profit.
The same applies to every other sucessful business that are trading.
So why is Window Cleaning different? if a legal cleaner wants to offer an excellent service at the cheapest price, why shouldn't he? it's his business after all.
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Hi
No, I am not undercutting. One woman nearly expired on the spot when I names my price.
David
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you did the right thing I to am a Black Belt in karate and wont think twice about something thats worth actualy fighting for,if its right and correct,
or if its family,my son is a black belt,but got turned over had his phone taken,
the sad thing is he was more then 5 to one out numberd :P
and you always keep a keen eye if they should pull a weapon :-\
well done! :)
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david you can look at this a few different ways but if you know you can get a good price coz the nice motors there would you not try for more? rite o
your example:
Do Sainsburys or Tescos charge the same prices or do they charge more because thats what the other shop was charging, no they don't, they try to offer their products at the cheapest rate possible. The reason for this is they want the customers, they want to make the maximum amount they can, they know that if you charge a little less but sell more then you make more of a profit.
wot about aldi ;D
my example:
you go to buy a car out of the autotrader for £££ but if you went to buy the same car from a garage(forecourt) youll end up paying more
this could go on for awhile just nip it in the bud to many example.it depends which way you look at it
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Hi andyp
I am not certain what you mean but I try to charge a good price for my services, I believe doing the frames and doors is a substanital increase in the service offered over doing glass only and charge accordingly.
About 80% accept and about 20% look at me as if I am mad and give the old 'ooooh, well I have your number'. I am happy with that. Any more saying yes and I am too cheap, any more saying no and I am too expensive. I would rsather do 10 houses and make £120 than 15 to make the same money.
Obviously I am no expert having been in the game only 3 months but that is the kind of numbers I am happy with (until you all tell me I am mad ???)
David
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sorry david that post wasnt ment for u(started drinking early)plus im not out the nite ??
the message was for williamx
sorry mate
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david you can look at this a few different ways but if you know you can get a good price coz the nice motors there would you not try for more? rite o
Maybe I am different, I treat all of my customers the same and charge all of them the same on a like for like basis.
I personally would feel like a conman if I overcharged because they had a nice house-motor or were richer than Mrs Jones down the road, or overcharge them because their previous cleaner was doing so.
I think that if I did this, then I would be no better than the benefit cheats who want to earn a bit of extra cash for their kids for christmas, they might me morally right in some people eyes but at the end of the day they are crooks.
I know that I can look my customers in the eye, when they say I am a honest and reliable window cleaner.
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may be in the same area but if you go to a posh area and you know there have money why you going to charge the same price as the others why??
ok a nice house in a ok estate £100 thousand the same house in a posh estate £200 thosand
the price also depends on the area and how much you can make out of them its business why charge £10 when you can get £15/£20
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If that the case thats its alright to overcharge, then you really can't complain if someone undercuts your price.
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What about the cleaner who is overcharging, you know that he charges say £10.00 for a house but because the customers has a merc or roller he now charges £25.00, is that what a professional cleaner is? or is he a cowboy?
What if its a pensioner who's a bit confused? he now charges her more and she will be happy to pay this because she trusts him.
Every window cleaner has his set rate for the job, but now he see ways of making more money from the vunerable or desperate people who want a cleaner and can't find one.
We are all in business to make money and pricing your jobs correctly is very important, underprice and you will go bust, overprice and you won't get the work, but to overcharge because you can get away with it, is this the professional image we are happy with.
Do Sainsburys or Tescos charge the same prices or do they charge more because thats what the other shop was charging, no they don't, they try to offer their products at the cheapest rate possible. The reason for this is they want the customers, they want to make the maximum amount they can, they know that if you charge a little less but sell more then you make more of a profit.
The same applies to every other sucessful business that are trading.
So why is Window Cleaning different? if a legal cleaner wants to offer an excellent service at the cheapest price, why shouldn't he? it's his business after all.
I'm not so sure that the supermarket analogy holds true. Do they really charge as little as they can or do they charge as much as the marketplace will bear? If the supermarket were the only shop for many miles around, I suspect that prices would creep up due to lack of competition. When I worked in a supermarket, they would go around labellng the special offers and also go around upping the prices of other goods at the same time,
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first you have 2 part with some cash and buy a small round work is always 4 sale in my local window cleaning suppliers[bradford ladders] and if you do a good job you will always pick up more work as 4 new estastes its up 4 grabs
Then I would never have got started then. I had an old banger and about £100 left when I first started with no ready access to credit. Even so, if someone already had a cleaner, I just moved on to the next house.
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If that the case thats its alright to overcharge, then you really can't complain if someone undercuts your price.
why undercut I never work for less money just to get a job, I dont need too as have more than enough work. undercutting just makes the new work harder and for less money IMO not good business sence
do you work full time as a window cleaner or just part time?
Ok you have enough work and you don't want any more so you can kept your prices high, but what ablout the newbie or the cleaners who employs and want to expand.
They see a house which in their view is overpriced do they leave it alone or do they quote their price which happens to be lower.
Window cleaning is a business and every other window cleaner in your area is your competitor, yes you can be on good terms with them, yes you can help them with problems, you can borrow them equipment if they need it in a emergence, but when it comes to pricing jobs, if you want or need the work then its ok to charge the least amount to secure it.
I only work 4 days plus some saturdays window cleaning, then I clean carpets in the afternoon and at night, so I'm almost part-time.
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They see a house which in their view is overpriced do they leave it alone or do they quote their price which happens to be lower.
heeheehee still going. ;D
I think if anyone knows the price of a house then they know they already have a cleaner and if they have canvassed it, it is better left alone .
However, if they have had a call from a customer to come and quote then it is fair game.
I say this cos i got a call 6 months ago from a neighbour of an existing job who asked me to clean their windows. They told me they had another wc before but he didn't turn up each month as agreed.
12 windows and doors. I charged £12. 10 minutes work. He told me the other wc charged £15 and pays me £15 as well. I didn't canvass the job, i was sought out as i do the neighbours regularly.
Last year i got a call to clean a conservatory roof. The lady asked me if i could do the windows on a regular basis and for her neighbour as well because the existing wc didn't clean the frames.
She told me her wc only charged a fiver!! :o I told her that it was very cheap and i would have charged a tenner for this type of job which she was happy with. But i felt uncomfortable at the time and told her that she should offer her wc £8 - 10 to include the frames and if he still won't then to call me again.
She thought that was a good idea and we left it at that.
I've never heard back and the frames are clean when i look nowadays.
If i knew i was cheaper than the previous wc, i would raise my quotes for the area accordingly.
I do think some slack has to be given to new wc though as they don't have the luxury of comparison. Better to help than to get the hump with them.
We were all new once and didn't know any better.