Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ok cleaning on September 13, 2007, 09:44:37 pm
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hi everyone i have seen the first polish window cleaners in my town today{camberley surrey} i think it is gonna be very competetive in very new future have you spotted any yet?
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I've got one and he works for me, can't afford not to ;D
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like the corner shops were taken over by the pakestanies .so our work will b taken over .we are doooooomed .but enjoy life while we can
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some of us have had it good for a while, earning good money
i guess we will now have to earn a realistic wage for the unskilled job we do
no offence meant to any1
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Matt
The skill comes from making money from it. Anyone can do the job, but not many can hit the £50k plus mark.
I see it as a game and how to keep ahead of the competition, I now run the biggest window cleaning business in Penwith, not bad seen as i started with 1 big job and later bought a £100 a week round 9 years ago.
Dave
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Isn't it bizarre to think we're all gonna be run out of town by Polish guys coming over here and swarming all over our houses/towns/hamlets and establishments?
I thought a couple of years ago they were doing all the electricians out of work in the UK, then it was the chippies, I see them down at the local councils recycling centre, but for gawds sake lets be realistic about it!
If theyre coming over here as is being made out by some on here to 'steal' our work then there wont be any poles left in Poland, and I just somehow dont think thats going to happen.
If they take your work then your doing something wrong.
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dont get me worng dave, that is the skill
BUT
the Eastern europeans wont need that much of a skill, if they earn 60 quid a day they will be happy, 10 X (10 quid) houses at 6 quid each, they will think its great
im a little concearned about it to be honest, i would hope that 75% of my customers will stay with me ( honest, realable, do a good job )
i do think that it will drive prices down for the future though
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I thought a couple of years ago they were doing all the electricians out of work in the UK, then it was the chippies, I see them down at the local councils recycling centre
i guess you dont know any1 in the building game then, speak to them about it, they have taken work, they have driven down prices ( which to be fair be at a very silly high ) and they have made the building game a less inviting place for the youngsters ( who will be the future )
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If theyre coming over here as is being made out by some on here to 'steal' our work then there wont be any poles left in Poland, and I just somehow dont think thats going to happen.
My guy tells me that over 3 million have left Poland in the last few years. This left a shortfall of possible workforce there pushing prices up! This has now been filled by immigrants from the ex USSR states forcing prices back down again.
If you have a strong customer base then you will be safe. Those who boast on here 9and other forums) about earning stupid amounts of quick money are the ones to be worried.
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What the poles and others do is leave the family back at home {kids wife etc}come here live in a one bedroom flat with other ten people go fishing to local pond for breaky lunch dinner brougth his own car so no tax no insurance no mot no income tax no any other must have insurances and clean windows for afew £ do it for a few years than dissappear back to where they came from and THAT IS NOT ON NO NO AND NO
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What the poles and others do is leave the family back at home {kids wife etc}come here live in a one bedroom flat with other ten people go fishing to local pond for breaky lunch dinner brougth his own car so no tax no insurance no mot no income tax no any other must have insurances and clean windows for afew £ do it for a few years than dissappear back to where they came from and THAT IS NOT ON NO NO AND NO
Simple: Report to HSE, IR etc and if all else fails play dirty ;D You know dirt ;D ;D
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the average Polish guy only stays 1 year then goes back home to his wife and family.
We have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Recently i have picked up loads of work from a retired guy and heard all the tales of how bad he was, and everyone told me although he was bad they felt loyal to him and stuck with him, so if i couldnt nick his work while he was operating i doubt if any Polish guy could ever poach my work.
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What kind of customers have you got,mine wouldn`t get rid of me for a polish worker or any other foreigner.They couldn`t care less about saving a few quid they`ve got to much money to worry.
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the average Polish guy only stays 1 year then goes back home to his wife and family.
We have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Recently i have picked up loads of work from a retired guy and heard all the tales of how bad he was, and everyone told me although he was bad they felt loyal to him and stuck with him, so if i couldnt nick his work while he was operating i doubt if any Polish guy could ever poach my work.
sure i ead a report the other day that the poles were not going home and that the polish government were having to bring in tradesmen from az a ba jang to cover the void.
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CRONEM
Centre for Research on Nationalism,
Ethnicity and Multiculturalism
University of Surrey
Guildford
Surrey GU2 7XH
Polish migrants survey results
Commissioned by the BBC Newsnight
Key findings:
�� Polish migrants demonstrate a highly complex set of migratory patterns reflecting the growing fluidity and ease of mobility within the European labour market. As shown below, migration patterns can be divided into three broad, numerically equal categories: seasonal migrants, long term settlers and undecided.
�� 22% of the respondents identified themselves as seasonal migrants and almost a third of respondents stated that they intended to stay less than two years in the UK. Seasonal workers and short term migrants tend to be young (aged below 24 years), with lower levels of education, are concentrated in big cities like London and work in construction or hospitality/catering industries.
�� However, around 30% do not know how long they will stay in the UK. This indicates that a relatively high proportion of recent migrants are adopting a ‘wait and see’ approach to the duration of their stay. Those aged between 24 and 34 were most likely to be found in this category. The remaining respondents were split relatively equally between staying 2-5 years, over 5 years and permanently.
�� 15% of respondents said they wanted to stay in the UK permanently.
�� 30% of respondents said that they intend to bring their families and children over or that their families are already in the UK. The highest
proportion was among the 35-45 age groups, followed by those in the 24-35 groups. However, a relatively high percentage (28%) did not answer the question but of those who did, just under 60% said that they do not intend to do bring their families over. Education or sector of employment does not seem to play a decisive role here.
�� Financial reasons and unemployment in Poland is the main factor driving people to migrate to the UK (mentioned by almost 60% of respondents). However, younger respondents and those with higher levels of education are more likely to stress non-financial motives like “easier to live in the UK” and “personal or professional development”.
�� Polish migrants are very happy with their reception by the British public. 90% of surveyed say that they have been received ‘well’ or ‘very well’ with only 10% stating that they have been received ‘badly’ or ‘very badly’. Those in the latter two categories were more likely to be older and male.
�� 64% of respondents declared that they had registered on the Workers Registration Scheme. People living in smaller towns were more likely to have registered, as were older workers and those intending to stay in the UK for longer periods.
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http://www.surrey.ac.uk/Arts/CRONEM/CRONEM_BBC_Polish_survey%20_results.pdf
For source
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CRONEM
Centre for Research on Nationalism,
Ethnicity and Multiculturalism
University of Surrey
Guildford
Surrey GU2 7XH
Polish migrants survey results
Commissioned by the BBC Newsnight
Key findings:
�� Polish migrants demonstrate a highly complex set of migratory patterns reflecting the growing fluidity and ease of mobility within the European labour market. As shown below, migration patterns can be divided into three broad, numerically equal categories: seasonal migrants, long term settlers and undecided.
�� 22% of the respondents identified themselves as seasonal migrants and almost a third of respondents stated that they intended to stay less than two years in the UK. Seasonal workers and short term migrants tend to be young (aged below 24 years), with lower levels of education, are concentrated in big cities like London and work in construction or hospitality/catering industries.
�� However, around 30% do not know how long they will stay in the UK. This indicates that a relatively high proportion of recent migrants are adopting a ‘wait and see’ approach to the duration of their stay. Those aged between 24 and 34 were most likely to be found in this category. The remaining respondents were split relatively equally between staying 2-5 years, over 5 years and permanently.
�� 15% of respondents said they wanted to stay in the UK permanently.
�� 30% of respondents said that they intend to bring their families and children over or that their families are already in the UK. The highest
proportion was among the 35-45 age groups, followed by those in the 24-35 groups. However, a relatively high percentage (28%) did not answer the question but of those who did, just under 60% said that they do not intend to do bring their families over. Education or sector of employment does not seem to play a decisive role here.
�� Financial reasons and unemployment in Poland is the main factor driving people to migrate to the UK (mentioned by almost 60% of respondents). However, younger respondents and those with higher levels of education are more likely to stress non-financial motives like “easier to live in the UK” and “personal or professional development”.
�� Polish migrants are very happy with their reception by the British public. 90% of surveyed say that they have been received ‘well’ or ‘very well’ with only 10% stating that they have been received ‘badly’ or ‘very badly’. Those in the latter two categories were more likely to be older and male.
�� 64% of respondents declared that they had registered on the Workers Registration Scheme. People living in smaller towns were more likely to have registered, as were older workers and those intending to stay in the UK for longer periods.
phewwwwww!! ;D
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Dave , just to put those statistics in perspective, I moved to the US with the intention of staying 2 maybe 3 years at the most , that was 21 years ago ;)
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Pat
well aint that Englands loss
Dave
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Dave , just to put those statistics in perspective, I moved to the US with the intention of staying 2 maybe 3 years at the most , that was 21 years ago ;)
i went to south korea (to earn very good money teaching english) for 6 months and stayed 4 years. It would be hypocritical of me to lay into any type of economic refugee because of this.
Can't blame someone for wanting to earn better money. ;)
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dont get me worng dave, that is the skill
BUT
the Eastern europeans wont need that much of a skill, if they earn 60 quid a day they will be happy, 10 X (10 quid) houses at 6 quid each, they will think its great
im a little concearned about it to be honest, i would hope that 75% of my customers will stay with me ( honest, realable, do a good job )
i do think that it will drive prices down for the future though
I have asked customers about this and they said they would not trust them (their words not mine) so I am not to worried about it, please try and undercut me all the time yet I still grow every week. some round my areas charge £3 a house where i charge £10 so that really speaks for it's self. Have to give it to the poles I have met they are a hard working bunch
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I thought a couple of years ago they were doing all the electricians out of work in the UK, then it was the chippies, I see them down at the local councils recycling centre
i guess you dont know any1 in the building game then, speak to them about it, they have taken work, they have driven down prices ( which to be fair be at a very silly high ) and they have made the building game a less inviting place for the youngsters ( who will be the future )
I live 2 doors away from a self-employed chippy and 3 doors away from a self-employed sparky, theyve never once mentioned about being done out of work either by these guys, also did 11 years myself on building sites prior to becoming a self-employed window-cleaner.
That enough? 8)
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Don't worry we have over 400 working for a major holiday park in Minehead .........Yes the local lads have lost work to them on the camp but we are slowly getting it back..... have you ever seen a pole at the bottom of pole who are getting paid hourly ????? thay don't work very fast (good for them if they can get away with it) ....The firm spent loads of money on both truck mount carpet cleaner and a very good reach & wash most of the time they are off the road broken .....I wonder why maybe that the gear is not their own! or they don't want to do the work ...getting the signs out - Hi Viz - those of you who do commercial work when a place is open with 5000+ guests you know what I mean ;D
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I thought a couple of years ago they were doing all the electricians out of work in the UK, then it was the chippies, I see them down at the local councils recycling centre
i guess you dont know any1 in the building game then, speak to them about it, they have taken work, they have driven down prices ( which to be fair be at a very silly high ) and they have made the building game a less inviting place for the youngsters ( who will be the future )
I live 2 doors away from a self-employed chippy and 3 doors away from a self-employed sparky, theyve never once mentioned about being done out of work either by these guys, also did 11 years myself on building sites prior to becoming a self-employed window-cleaner.
That enough? 8)
i still have loads of mates in various trades, they all say that the money they can earn has dropped a fair bit and groundworkers are struggling to get enough work
i guess its all about area's
my best mate is a stone mason from cardiff, he is really up against it, about 2 years ago, he emplyed a few lads and would charge them out at 250 a day, he has had to lay a few off and only gets 150 a day now, the only reason for this is the easten europeans who are happy to earn 70 a day ( he has spoken to them on sites and in site huts etc etc )
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i read in the paper that eight thousand come to britain every week where do they all go ????
and that is some amount every week fifty two weeks a year and that is just the eastern euros
never mind any one else
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Well im not against anyone trying to earn themselves an honest living, but the problem that I see is that because the polish ( or indeed any other migrant workers) are happy to work on lower hourly rates then employers can fill their vacancies at minimum wage. Many " native english" cant afford to feed a family and pay their bills on basic rate money, if employers couldnt get staff to fill these lower paid vacancies they would have to increase the hourly rate to attract employees. So I think that the migrant workers are keeping wages rates down in this country ( I dont blame the migrant workers for that, I would do the same in their position)
If they move into window cleaning or any other relatively low money entry level business they will bring down rates.
Look at it this way, if window cleaners in germany were working for £120 an hour, would you go over there and work for £120 or would you settle for £80-£100. And to get that £120 it might take you 3/4 years to build up that customer base, whereas at £80 1/3rd cheaper than the german cleaners you;d soon get yourself a round going ( plus we're better tradesmen than the germans IMO)
Mark
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ok cleaning
i know that someone in camberley was sellinng a round the other day and i think he sold it to a polish guy. im in yateley so if you ever see me about stop and have a chat.
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Dave speaks a lot of sence.
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I've been waiting for this day to come and it has. WFP'ing away this morn and a car pulled up. Very polite young polish guy, spoke the lingo pretty well,askin me 101 questions about where? why? How much? How much can i earn? :-\ Then his (i presume) father got out the car,smiled,shook my hand,smiled some more(probably not as fluent in English as his son) I wish this lad all the best BUT for every one that i know of there has to be another 5 at least that i don't know of. Give it a couple of years and it'll be 30 or 40 or more. 5 years down the road??? God knows. I do a fantastic job of my work and probably have not too much to worry about, but if i was a custy and someone offered to do my gaff for £4 instead of £12, i'd be tempted. Why shouldn't my punters be as tempted?
My saving grace was i told him it costs about 5K to set it all up. Ok a bit overinflated but some of ya will know where i'm comin from ;)
Rant over................... Beer :)
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If it came to it near me , here is my plan.
Sell my house, my vehicles, my business and buy a cheap house in the outer hebrides and a couple more to renovate, get a part time job and spend the rest of my days just chillin, fishing, canoeing, drinking.
Heaven
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I work in Camberley too. I picked up a job last year from a Pole that "never came back" I quoted £27-00 his price was £25-00 so they ain't that cheap!!
There's even a Polish Cafe in the town centre so hopefully they'll spend most of the day in there ;)
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Funnily enough Dave, I was thinkin of moving to Poland. I reckon the equity in my pad would buy an awfully nice pad over there. And i've noticed the gals aint to be sniffed at. Talkin of sniffing........If the wife gets a sniff of this post, then it may well be the outer hebrides for me ;D
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i got under cut by a polish lad it was only a £4 shop but he said he would do it to the owner for £2 what can you do if i see him i will give him a gob fulll if not a fist full its took me nearly 10 years hard graft to build my shop round up and i ain t giving them up that easely no way >:(
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Funny thing is MBS, i don't blame them. If i could quadruple(if not more, much more) my income by going to work an easyjet flight away, to provide a much better lifestyle for my family then i would. I do however blame this gutless Government for not standing up for US cos you can rest assured if it does all go belly up, then they won't be waiting in the wings ready to support my F*cking family. It grinds at me soo much. I'm not gonna say " I aint racist", that's the most overused cliche out there but i do see some real bad times ahead for us and our families. Not just in this trade, in every trade. A friend of mine is at Uni at the minute. Can she find a bit of part time work to help her get by??? Not on your nelly. You can guess as to why............. >:(
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Hi Folks,
Over here they are too busy cleaning cars in TESCO's car park at Cleethorpes.
Mind you I did think of askin one if he wanted a job in a small market town.
David
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if i could afford to get out of this contry i would too many for my liking but then a gain why should i i belong here not them
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Fancy a beer MBS..............Thank God i aint alone on this one. I'd sick to the high teeth of being told how i should think and how i should feel. I'm bloody angry. All this talk about intergration is a good thing. It is........undoubtably, but if they we're coming over on gunboats with an AK47, it would be called an invasion and oil permitting ;) a peacekeeping force would be sent here to protect us. Tongue firmly in cheek CIU....firmly in cheek. Don't bite :o
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Fancy a beer MBS..............Thank God i aint alone on this one. I'd sick to the high teeth of being told how i should think and how i should feel. I'm bloody angry. All this talk about intergration is a good thing. It is........undoubtably, but if they we're coming over on gunboats with an AK47, it would be called an invasion and oil permitting ;) a peacekeeping force would be sent here to protect us. Tongue firmly in cheek CIU....firmly in cheek. Don't bite :o
yes dino strongly agree m8 but its a pitty many more dont
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Round 'em all up & ship em back to where they came from. simple ;)
Most of them are crap tradesmen anyway.
That australian president/prime minister had the right idea a couple of years ago when he stopped a ship full of imigrants from docking, turned it round & sent it back.
tony
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take a look at california for example
all the mexicans working there for $7 an hour
they have monopolized many areas
gardening,catering,farmwork etc etc
always the numbers increase
nothing will be done to change this
california state would go bankrupt
its slave labour and very good for the economy
exactly the same thing is happening in UK
take a look
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-7037664,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-7037664,00.html
cost of living always increasing and its no small thing to save
£5 or £10 on wc bill
SLAVE LABOUR IS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY
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I thought a couple of years ago they were doing all the electricians out of work in the UK, then it was the chippies, I see them down at the local councils recycling centre
i guess you dont know any1 in the building game then, speak to them about it, they have taken work, they have driven down prices ( which to be fair be at a very silly high ) and they have made the building game a less inviting place for the youngsters ( who will be the future )
I live 2 doors away from a self-employed chippy and 3 doors away from a self-employed sparky, theyve never once mentioned about being done out of work either by these guys, also did 11 years myself on building sites prior to becoming a self-employed window-cleaner.
That enough? 8)
I was doing some diamond drilling for a big high street chain about 6 years ago, most of the workers there that night could not speak english, telling them not to lay cables in certain places was a total nightmare all I kep getting was blank looks. ::)
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Not all Poles are pleasant and well spoken, neither are thay all hard working.
Some are chancers looking to milk a system.
In appearance many are swarthy and unkempt.
Take a look at most building sites and they'll fit in perfectly ;) you can get away with Scruffy on a building site in a way that you cannot get away with in something such as window cleaning or carpet cleaning.
I don't mind the inteligent and articulate immigrants, they may well build solid businesses, they will pay their taxes and blend in well.
With window cleaning, for an immigrant of any non english speaking country to be successful he will need to be articulate, neat, presentable and persuasive.
How many are going to be that? Those that come over thinking an easy way to earn some money might be to buy a bucket and a ladder and become a window cleaner, but those are the ones that are going to find it hard to actually build a round of any real substance.
They will be more of a threat to those in the employed sector, whether window cleaning or otherwise.
Employers will be more than happy to take on these people (and exploit them too in many cases) and in that respect they are a threat to jobs.
Immigration in this country is frightening and out useless government is too scared to do anything about it, a whole host of problems are going to build up as a result is something isn't done about it.
Some will feel the bite (self employed window cleaners) but I don't think it will be as bad as many anticipate.
Ian
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And there's me hoping to wake up to some good news :(
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Jesus lads, talk about a load of zenophobic clap trap hitler has nothing on you lot. Only joking ( kinda)
In Ireland we have a population of 4 million and a polish/eastern european population in excess of 300,000. All my staff are polish/ romanian and I can assure you that I am now in a position to expand my business only because in the main they are reliable, presentable and hardworking and of course prepared to work fairly cheaply which means I can spend more on marketing my business and growing it.( world domination attempt)
I prefer to see an increase in forigners as an opportunity not as a negative. The more poles working in your building sector the more houses being built and money being spent in the sho[ps that pay you etc in general it is good for the economy and whats good for the economy is good for all businesses including window cleaners.
Chill out and look at the up side, do good work at fair prices and you will be all right
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I thought most on here were trying to encourage the WAHD ;D
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Why would a customer in England want a
Polish window cleaner that can hardly speak any English not to mention the fact they dont know the person.. - When they already have a English person who they know and trust cleaning there windows?
The price does not matter one little bit to a customer... they want a window cleaner they can trust, and know they are going to clean there windows when they say they are going to clean them.
Not 1 of my custies would sack me for a cheaper cleaner!
I dont know what you are all worried about?? Are you doing something wrong ? Or maybe you think your custies would sake you for a cheaper cleaner?
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Reading your posts i understand that folk worry about cheap labour and all. I'm in the same boat in my area. Though the posts that are basically saying chuck all out are complete tosh!
I gave up employing staff. All born and bred in our great land. Lazy as
. Never turn up for work. Moan if new customer asked for quote while we were out working (means goto do more work). Know matter how much i payed them and i paid them well. Never enough. All ways had a attitude '' you need us more than we need you we can go on dole and rent paid and all''
In end i sacked em all. got in a businesses partner with the same work ethic as me. happy days.
I agree not all are hard working and polite but i know plenty of this land who are not. What about the summer jobbies working for beer money house for£3. Put em against the wall about shoot them we can't chuck em out coz there from here!
The answer is goto be we have a license or something like that. Where all insurances and safety procedures have to proved. I.D. that would go some way to stop fiddlers and co working on the cheap. Also the public would know no license not kosher (so to speak)
Rant over
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the UK is doing the same as california and a lot of the
rest of the states cheap labour
the brits have had it good for so long theyve become lazy
and complacient
you ever come across statements like..."the english are renouned
as hard working people"?--i never had
another look at california (i lived in L Angeles for 2 years)
a very big gardening scene going on there..........and i looked and looked
couldent ever see a caucasian gardener
even the mexicans are no.1 and have monopoly in gangland
poles...if theyre lucky and have ajob-get £1 per hour in poland
they are motivated and earnest and hardworking
licences?.......why cant a polish guy get a licence?
just my view about "trust"...........if the guy looks good and speaks
not so bad english---good enough
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Not saying polish can not get license, If all is in place insurance etc then all is fair in business even if there cheap. Not fair is those working paying no insurance taxes etc
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I worked in Agriculture in Denmark, back in the 80's, they couldnt get the staff over there in them days, we were hard-working apparently.
Great money, great beer and great women ;)
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If we do a good job, we have nothing to worry about
Gazza
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once upon a time the british builder was the best in the world
and the world knew it
what happened ?? ?
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It was only a couple of years ago when we were worrying about declning birth rates, and who was going to pay for our pensions. The answer, Immigrants.
I'm drawng my pension now, and taxes from immigrants are helping to pay for it.
You can't buy trust, you have to earn it. Once you have it, you can sell it. It's one of our biggest assets. I would pay more to a mechanic for fixing my car, if he had mine.
Reading many of the above posts is in a way heartning. If my customers are as afraid of forigners as most of you guys, I have nothing to worry about. Dai
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the only pole i no is the one i hold in my hands
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the only pole i no is the one i hold in my hands
trad cleaner are ya?? ;D
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well done all those that employ the polish. First we train them up, tell them how much we charge per house so they can undercut, pay the taxes that will keep them while theyre w/cing for £5 a house. All those tha t dont moan about the easties- go look on the building sites, the whole pay structure falls. All those that were on £90 a day are now on £60 a day cs if they wont do it the easties will. Its gonna happen to us window cleaners. They might go home in the winter but others wont and the round will be handed over untill they come back in 3 months time. We must not look at our own tlittle world cos we're not the only ones, and what are you gonna do when those £20 houses are being done for £7:50!!!
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Yesterday I had 4 phone calls 1 after the other and it went like this,
caller “want work”
me “pardon”
caller “want work”
me “pardon”
caller “want work”
me "sorry I don’t understand you, do you need a window cleaner?”
caller “want work”
me “do you mean you want a job?
caller “want work”
me “sorry nothing going mate”
caller “ you speak polish”
me “no and there are no jobs going either”
this happened 4 times within the space of 15 minutes and I got so fed up with it on the final call I said to the guy
“try Poland there’s lots of work out there”
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http://webmail.aol.com/31361/aol/en-gb/Mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.19328808&folder=Old+Mail&partId=4&saveAs=El_Rey_del_martillo.wmv
This is why they are the best