Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dean Aspects on September 12, 2007, 02:11:23 pm
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Just got one through the post today funny i never paid for one but anyhow
their is a article on a few different poles makes for interesting reading not comprehensive but a good reference point if you are getting a new pole worth a read
Dean
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Ah, poo; I forgot to change my address with them; it's went to my old place and the buggers aren't forwarding my mail.
Was it another 'advert mag'?
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Its amazing what pole comes out top in there research,,yawn,yawn,if they had tested a superlite pole which had been designed for cleaning windows,rather than putting sly little coments in about them, i think the results would be different,but then they dont like competition.
Malcolm
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Ah, poo; I forgot to change my address with them; it's went to my old place and the buggers aren't forwarding my mail.
Was it another 'advert mag'?
Well lets say that their a particular manufacturer/supplier mentioned once or twice ::)
Dean
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Yeah i had a quick look today and noticed that
PS is there featured window cleaner from a boy band
That woman holding the pole can come and work for me anytime !!!
Marcus
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Major con that mag,i paid a full years subscription got about 3 issues and 1 of them was the same as the sample i was sent,i didn`t get a new issue for well over 3-4mths after i paid.I didn`t get mine today,most mags like this all go out at the same time.
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Just got one through the post today funny i never paid for one but anyhow
their is a article on a few different poles makes for interesting reading not comprehensive but a good reference point if you are getting a new pole worth a read
Dean
can i have a guess which pole came out on top :P :P :P
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All I have paid for is a Ionics Mag. Nearly every page has a picture or mention of Ionics.
Guess which pole got the lowest score
Yes, Brodex
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All I have paid for is a Ionics Mag. Nearly every page has a picture or mention of Ionics.
Guess which pole got the lowest score
Yes, Brodex
;D ;D classic
do i win a prize for guessing who won ;)
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All I have paid for is a Ionics Mag. Nearly every page has a picture or mention of Ionics.
Guess which pole got the lowest score
Yes, Brodex
;D ;D classic
do i win a prize for guessing who won ;)
Their is no possible way you could work out which pole won go on i challenge you ;)
Dean
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All I have paid for is a Ionics Mag. Nearly every page has a picture or mention of Ionics.
Guess which pole got the lowest score
Yes, Brodex
;D ;D classic
do i win a prize for guessing who won ;)
Their is no possible way you could work out which pole won go on i challenge you ;)
Dean
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm its a tough 1 this
do i get any clues ;D ;D ;D
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Every pole was given a rating
Ergolite 2+ got 90%
Ergolite 2 80%
Ionic original 85%
Facelift Carbon fibre 78%
Tucker 65 %
Unger Carbon 55%
BrodexEcolite got 32 %
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but they dont sell the ecolite anymore, its the cobra now. Ionics are just bad loosers. They cant face it that there is competition now
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Every pole was given a rating
Ergolite 2+ got 90%
Ergolite 2 80%
Ionic original 85%
Facelift Carbon fibre 78%
Tucker 65 %
Unger Carbon 55%
BrodexEcolite got 32 %
John, you have spoilt it now, i was going to try and win a prize
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they missed a trick
Ergolite 2+ got 90%
Ergolite 2 80%
Ionic original 85%
Facelift Carbon fibre 78%
Tucker 65 %
Unger Carbon 55%
Wooden broom handle 43%
BrodexEcolite got 32 %
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They need to do a supertest in the next issue
Ionics e2+ 60ft vs. Superlite2 60ft
Tristan
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All I have paid for is a Ionics Mag. Nearly every page has a picture or mention of Ionics.
Guess which pole got the lowest score
Yes, Brodex
And Omnipole's powerpole didn't even get as mention LOL. I wonder why.
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On the pole test would it not be a fairer test if it was just the pole that was tested and not pole and brush as most people change the brushes anyway to their own preferred brush
I realise that the test is for the complete pole as that is what you buy but just think it would be a more complete test although that might mean a different pole would come out top and that would be bad ;)
Dean
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Im sorry guys i dont buy in to one or two people testing each pole and making up there minds to tell the world ,
the reason is that why i like 4x4's and americam motors the wife likes cabrios (you know little girly cars)
my point two different ideas of the same thing transport from a-b
now people showing opinions is different but not easily available to acheive.
regards, stuart
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Yep they reckon you can't use fishing poles. Funny that 'cos thats what I like to use -especially the ones around sixty quid. ::)
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The only way to test a product fairly and accurately is to leave 'opinions' out of it.
This is why when we test and assess poles we just test the bare pole (minus brush, hose and gooseneck). The test then needs to be carried out in a measured scientific 'back-to-back' way, with accurate statistics that can be converted into clearly understood results.
I have not seen the tests in PWC yet so I am not sure how they have carried them out, but the % figures quoted earlier seem to be far too contrived and 'rounded' off to be an accurate measurement figure, but I may be wrong!
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Yep they reckon you can't use fishing poles. Funny that 'cos thats what I like to use -especially the ones around sixty quid. ::)
I use a fishing pole too.
But ... if I employed anyone I wouldn't let them have one because they do break (but are easily repaired) if not treated carefully. (OK maybe I would let a girlie use one if she promised to treat it gently! ;D)
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To be fair though, there is a picture of all the poles in the test, all placed next to an e2+. You can easily tell how they performed, and they were quite nice about the facelift pole etc.
It was ionics ionics ionics, but of the poles tested it was the best one. They were quite balanced about what they said and the e2+ was the best there by along way. And they did PAY for the mag. You should treat it as an advertisement which it is. And I think the photos of the poles were genuine and the e2 did win fairly. Maybe they could have had more poles, but maybe that wasn't in the budget.
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The way they rated them was on
Rigidity
Weight
Handel Diameter
Ease of use
Robustness
Cost
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They also did a peice on add on work Gutter cleaning and by chance its a system supplied by Ionics the upkeeper www.upkeeper.co.uk.
Unfortunatley your water fed pole wont help you here .
Omnipole do a add on to there power pole so you can clean gutters.
Also Omnipole do a gutter cleaner but it was not mentioned
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u got 3 copies in my door & 2 ended up in the bin! why send 3?
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The poles on trial section,winners, ionic ergolite(yawn)look at the prices £1027,£1.681 and still they cannot get there brushes right,my friend use the ionics brushes and he changes these 3 times a year,i use tucker and i have not changed these for 3 years,i agree they are good poles but if i was ionics i would invest money in research to get a better brush,but then they would not make much profit if the brushes lasted years.i hope in the next magazine they do a trial on brushes.The rating for the tucker pole 65% ,if it had the new pennel clamps it would have come out at 80%,my opinion.
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Out of fairness to Ionics the new E2 pole is probably the best "telescopic" pole on the market,
I tried one out a few weeks ago and i was very impressed, the best pole i have ever picked up.
You cannot compare it with a fishing pole as they are both different concepts.
p.s Ionics have got a new brush now, I was impressed with that too.
Dave
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dave, my friend as the new brush,he as been using it 6 weeks and it as started to curl up at the ends,i agree about the pole and i would probably invest in one if they sort there brushes out.
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It was ionics ionics ionics, but of the poles tested it was the best one. They were quite balanced about what they said and the e2+ was the best there by along way. And they did PAY for the mag. You should treat it as an advertisement which it is.
thats the point, its a advertisment mag for ionics and ionics companies, look though the mag, its all about ionics / ionics companies
the point is, people paid good money for a "magazine for window cleaners" NOT a brochure about ionics products
the dig about fishing poles not being suitable despite what "suppliers" ( gardeniers ) say, what a cheap shot and not needed
i liked the "the plan" about Jack and his round, he brought a "600 L thermo pure system" and a trafic van, "this is not a radom choice, as this package is currently the most popular combination of system and van with a window cleaner changing from ladder to wfp" ( copyright PWCmag )
inside 3 months he is making more then he used to even with the extra outgoings of £ 545 for van and system finance, thats right, in 3 months ::) ::) interesting indeed, also who did they ask what was the most popular system for people changing over, ionics by any chance
the "lift off" article, which doesnt make the Vikan sound like a good brush, i guess ionics dont sell the vikan then
the first few issues of the mag were ok, yes sure they we "Leaning" towards ionics ( fair enough, they own the mag ) BUT as its gone on, it just looks like the ionics advertising team sit and write the articles themsleves
once again, a case of a certain person trying to run the WFP industry, that cannot be healthy for most
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Was the PowerPole mentioned at all? ;)
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Van tank,pump,hosereel,flow controller if wanted,pole. job done for well under a £1000 if you choose average poles. :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Was the PowerPole mentioned at all? ;)
Poles tested are
Tucker 45ft pole(alu)
Facelift 44ft (c/f)
Brodex Ecolite57ft (c/f)
Unger CarbonTec
Original Ergolite E1
Ergolite 2 and 2+
The benchmark pole being the E2+
Dean
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So no PowerPole - How amusing - we have only sold 4000 of them!
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Alex,
That is the problem opinions left out we all have them and that is it, your idea of a test is not the same as mine,
im not interested in how well at x angle the pole reacts, and i believe that most window cleaners dont either, im interested in what a pole works like how it handles out on the most important thing the job of cleaning windows.
sorry this sounds like a dig its not,
after all if you speak to people they all recommend different poles as they have there own opinion.
rgds, stuart
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I can understand why the test for rigidity is done at the angle it is for the purpose of the test but the poles are never used at that angle so i believe an upright test with a standard weight on all poles would be better although the angle of the pole would be slight depending on pole and then how do you measure the angle when its 40ft in the air... i havent thought this one through have i ;D
leave it to the pro's
Dean
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Well what did you expect from ironics?
Someone the other day (on a different thread) said about Reubin having not been a window cleaner but a great salesman, well this is ironics through and through.
They produce a sales mag for ironics which people pay for....brilliant ;D
If British Airways did a survey/test on the favourite way to fly who do you think would come out top? I bet Virgin would be bottom because they would rig the questions in such a way so that they did come bottom.
As for Omnipole, no surprise there in view of testing and submitting the results because ironics know that Omnipole will fight back, so why risk the bother. Leave them out of it and therefore no direct damage done. Some indirect damage by not mentioning them but hey worth it in the long run.
Personally no matter how good their poles might be (if they are) i personally would never buy from them because of all this false hood.
As an after thought. Who last year during the water shortages put up the most resistance to the authorities? Who said they were doing it on behalf of the average window cleaner? But who stood to lose the most if the water ban came was enforced?
They don't care about us out there on the streets. All they're interested in is themselves. Try ringing ironics for some general wfp advice if you don't use their systems and see what help you get :D try the same with Brodex, Omnipole, Gardiners for some advice. Having tried it you can rule out the first one for helpfulness.
So I'd like to call this thread a view on ionics, and so far 2 have backed them to the hilt (no surprise on the one) and just about everyone else is not too pleased. Says it all really.
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It read like an Ionics brochure to me.
How long will it be before Unger teleplus users are regarded as cowboys? Dai
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NOW,is there any need to use them these days with the amount of poles on the market.Tele plus,yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaa.LOL. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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It read like an Ionics brochure to me.
How long will it be before Unger teleplus users are regarded as cowboys? Dai
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dont start them off dai, next mag will have a guy in a cowboy hat holding a unger pole :P
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Is it not free ?
Has anyone here actually paid a subscription for this year ?
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I havn`t paid again but i only got 3 issues for a years money.
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I didn't get half the ones I paid for last year. Dai
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I paid for another year at Windex ,I am not sure how many of them I have received .
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I am sure its free now , but dont hold me to it.
I havent got a copy, so if anyone gets a spare send one to me please , I will pay for postage.
Dave
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Is it not free ?
Don't know. But I did pay for last years service which is why I said great salemen. Last years was an ionics sales mag. But I believe this years is being subbed by ionics anyway.
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I am sure its free now , but dont hold me to it.
I havent got a copy, so if anyone gets a spare send one to me please , I will pay for postage.
Dave
dave, just go the ionics website and fill in the " send me a brochure" form
1. its allmost the same thing
2. they use your details for the mag anyway
3. its allmost the same thing
i know 1 and 3 are the same, but its such a major point, i felt it deserved it ( a old red dwarf joke thown in aswell, how good am i to you all ;))
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Matt
I have tried to subscribe a couple of times now , but have never been sent a copy.
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Don't knock it too much guys, they won't bother sending them out free again if all they get is criticism.
It isn't really claiming to be anything other than a glossy advertising campaign for Ionics, made a little more interesting by one or two features.
I wouldn't mind receiving something similar from all the big suppliers, something extra to browse through in the bathroom!
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Alex,
That is the problem opinions left out we all have them and that is it, your idea of a test is not the same as mine,
im not interested in how well at x angle the pole reacts, and i believe that most window cleaners dont either, im interested in what a pole works like how it handles out on the most important thing the job of cleaning windows.
sorry this sounds like a dig its not,
after all if you speak to people they all recommend different poles as they have there own opinion.
rgds, stuart
Stuart
It doesn't sound like a dig! I understand exactly what you're talking about. I always value my opinion having tried all of the poles more than any specific measurement. However, when tabulating, publishing, recommending specific products, it's always easier just to present the facts not that the facts will give the fully rounded picture (although they can certainly help).
By the way, your new poles look interesting.
I can understand why the test for rigidity is done at the angle it is for the purpose of the test but the poles are never used at that angle so i believe an upright test with a standard weight on all poles would be better although the angle of the pole would be slight depending on pole and then how do you measure the angle when its 40ft in the air... i havent thought this one through have i ;D
leave it to the pro's
Dean
Dean
I agree with you. The ideal test would be to have the poles fully extended at an angle of about 25 degrees off of vertical with just the bottom 1 metre of the pole supported. All poles would need to be loaded at the top with the same weight, say, 500 g. Then the angle of deviation from vertical would need to be measured and represented as a percentage. This in reality would be very difficult to carry out (I haven't read the test in PWC so I don't know if they have done it like this or not). When we carried out our rigidity test, we did in the most straightforward way to tabulate and measure. Whilst this doesn't represent the angle that the pole is used at, it does give you an instant idea of which pole is the stiffest. Not the perfect test but a valid one.
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Matt
I have tried to subscribe a couple of times now , but have never been sent a copy.
they dont like you then dave ;) ;)
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We've had this disscusion before re alex/philip.
Personaly I agree with what Alex says, but it is largely a question fo phisics. A university or a british standards should be doing some of the tests- or the tests should be standardised. It might make a good phd subject for someone?
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I didn't get half the ones I paid for last year. Dai
me neither
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I am sure its free now , but dont hold me to it.
I havent got a copy, so if anyone gets a spare send one to me please , I will pay for postage.
Dave
it must be free now, i get the full version, but before that it was the sample one, with half the subjects deleted,
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There is no price on the cover
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Dave
E mail me your address, I have been sent 3 copies, I don't want the postage
Regards Steve.
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Dave
E mail me your address, I have been sent 3 copies, I don't want the postage
Regards Steve.
do you still have the three copies? would you mind sending me one if I post you the money I have been waiting for ages and still nothing
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Alex,
I know the only problem is how true are they the facts as it is well said picture say a thousand words,
and especially with digital enhancement!
just like sponsored reports.
regards, Stuart
Ps Thank you i hope the sell as well as the look ::)
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Its free. Paid for by ionics. Its only fair they won. I don't know what all the moaning is about. The editor said clearly last time that he would be happy for and company to sponsor him. They could then win too. Stop moaning and view it as an advert - and to be fair, its more interesting than most adverts.
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I paid last years subscription but paid nothing for this year.
I did like the pole test and the bend on that tucker pole i did not believe.
My mate has a tucker pole and i have used it and no way does it bend like that.
Paul
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the question is.....
has the test been set up so the 'e2' performs the best? i think you'll find it is. if the test enviorment was different then the results would be different. the whole test was a scam and everyone knows it, you have to be a complete idiot to take any of the results seriously. the way certain poles are dismissed because they can't get their head around them speaks volumes.
Bottom line is.... it's not the Which report, it isn't an independant evaluation, it is run by a company struggling to make money who will do anything to do so.
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Bottom line is.... it's not the Which report, it isn't an independant evaluation, it is run by a company struggling to make money who will do anything to do so.
im not sure they are stuggling to make money
afterall
they sell the "600 L thermo pure system" and a trafic van, "this is not a radom choice, as this package is currently the most popular combination of system and van with a window cleaner changing from ladder to wfp" ( copyright PWCmag )
:P :P :P :P
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Hi Windowwashers,
E mail me your address and I will send you the other spare copy. Again, postage not wanted.
Regards Steve.
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The tucker would bend like that at 45ft. BUT Tucker actually sell their pole and go on about the flex and how you can use it. It kind of pings in and out, it isn't like a bendy fibre glass. What surprised me was that the 45ft tucker was as light as a good carbon fibre. And loads cheaper.
My 25ft tucker extender bends in this unusual way and it is, oddly, useful. You can flex it into corners and stuff.
And I didn't pay a penny or subscribe so it was a free advert. You (any supplier) could sponsor them next and have your products featured, why should they pay to advertise your products as better than theirs, you wouldn't.
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Flexibility is an interesting issue.
At lower levels (sub 30ft) it does not usually pose too much of a problem for the user and can indeed provide some extra reach in some situations. Most of us will put up with some flex if the pole is light enough at these low levels (X-Tel etc). However I recently cleaned a very difficult window over a flat roof, I usually use a 21.5ft X-tel pole to do this and the pole is at full reach and so am I. Last week I cleaned the same window with an experimental 18ft pole that has virtually no flex at all, despite the pole being 3.5ft shorter I was able to clean more easily because of the complete lack of flex. Given the choice it would be best for user control and reach to have zero flex if that were possible.
Working at higher levels however the issue of flex does become very important and this is not just 'Ionic-speak', you really do not want any extra flex as controlling a 45ft+ pole takes quite a bit of effort. Extra flex at these heights means that the poles take a lot more strength to control at ground level. Excessive flex has led users of 45ft+ poles to lose control completely of the equipment.