Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: gwrightson on September 04, 2007, 07:03:21 am

Title: encap update
Post by: gwrightson on September 04, 2007, 07:03:21 am
 
Getting on great with the system,
I am using on around 70% of my jobs now........ hourly rate increased by 50% custys seem to love it

heres a pic of an indian restraunt cleaned yesterday...... who has now asked me to quote for 3 other
premises.
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: Derek_Walker on September 04, 2007, 08:14:48 am
Which machine / system are you using to encap with, ie Cimex, OP etc?
Very impressive results.
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: carpetguy on September 04, 2007, 08:16:02 am
Good to see you doing well with Encap' which is growing in popularity in America mainly with oscillating rotaries. Do you use the Cimex and if so are you using white pads or brushes.
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: Derek_Walker on September 04, 2007, 08:26:13 am
Just looked at your last post, I see you use the Cimex. I do believe we will see more of this type of cleaning especially on commercial. I tried this out on some Flotex recently with very good results, using a soft carpet brush on a rotary machine. Because the floor underneath was uneven it would have made it difficult to hwe it.
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: gwrightson on September 04, 2007, 08:27:49 am
I am using cimex, along with cimex encap solution,
the brushes were used on this job, but the pads I use on low profile , commercial type carpets

Geoff
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: stuart_clark on September 04, 2007, 08:30:59 am
Goeff!  looks to me like a Belgian wilton ?
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: Derek_Walker on September 04, 2007, 08:32:38 am
What drying time did you get Geoff?
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: carpetguy on September 04, 2007, 08:42:17 am
Correct Stuart and the perfect solution for B W carpets
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: John Kelly on September 04, 2007, 08:55:08 am
Prochem have a new encapsulation solution out this month, Procaps. Supposed to be really good.
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: gwrightson on September 04, 2007, 09:34:25 am
not b?w

why would you assume its b/w  just by the pattern , or do you perhaps think because its an indian restaraunt they go for the cheapest, how wrong you are. it is in fact a wool mix   , woven

unless of course B/w have changed dramaticly since i leared the difference ;)
the drying time  ,  touch dry before i left  around an hour
geoff

Title: Re: encap update
Post by: gwrightson on September 04, 2007, 09:36:48 am
will you be stocking this encap John?
and diltion rates and price please   

Geoff
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: John Kelly on September 04, 2007, 09:44:17 am
Dilution 60ml to 1 Litre of water. Not ready yet and no price available. Don't forget our kind host is a Prochem dealer as well.
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: carpetguy on September 04, 2007, 01:54:18 pm
Not an assumption, the pattern and appearance are of a B/W which I have encountered as long ago as yesterday  :-\
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: Mike Halliday on September 04, 2007, 02:39:02 pm
that's a belgian Wilton. I've cleaned the same carpet a million times, unless them dastardly carpet Manufacturers are now making the same pattern in wool ;) ;)

I would be careful you ain't laying a minefield for yourself, what looks brilliant today might look bad in say a month, then the customer won't proberbly complain but might not use you again, telling her friends " the carpet got dirty really quickly when that Geoff cleaned it"

they really need educating about the importance of post vacuuming.

and you need to be very thorough with the pre-vaccing, I would vac, then scrub with the cimex, then vac again.

Mike
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: gwrightson on September 04, 2007, 03:57:20 pm
quite right too mike ,
I offer post vaccuming , but majority say they will vac. I do stress the impotance of post vac.
and b/w  no Mike   Ill take you along when I get back off my hols ;D

Geoff
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: JS2 on September 04, 2007, 05:51:11 pm
The thing that concerns me most is the post-clean vaccing, perhaps several hours later ??  I feel somewhat reassured when I leave a carpet in a near-complete state, thus taking some of the alarm out of what could happen after my departure.  Tell me I'm a worrier !!

Regards

Pete (JS2)
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: John Kelly on September 04, 2007, 06:26:44 pm
You're a warrier, sorry worrier
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: des on September 04, 2007, 06:57:54 pm
Geoff what price did you pay for your cimex and what is the cost of the encap liquid
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: mark_roberts on September 04, 2007, 07:27:40 pm
Looks good but I still think its a B/wilton.

MArk
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: Dave_Lee on September 04, 2007, 10:00:29 pm
Yes I agree def a B/W, apart from the pattern and finish those pressure marks are unique to dense popyprop straight yarn pile carpet. Personally I think encap is a massive backward step in our industry. Its simply a case of manufacturers and suppliers reintroducing a form of the old shampooing methods that died a death long before most present CCs were born or at least thinking about becoming a CC. The manufacturers etc that are pushing this thing now, have realised this, and are preaching to a new unaware audienceand,  but I am old enough to remember those days. In fact I started off with a DRY foam carpet deterger in 1980, and whilst it left a clean appearance, like Mike says it didnt last very long. I wouldnt touch the stuff myself, but like they say older and wiser.
Dave.
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: David_Annable on September 04, 2007, 10:16:07 pm
Hi

Why are these types of carpet so dirty, I realise this is in a harsh environment, but when I occasionally see these in a domestic environment, there filth as well.

Dave
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: John Kelly on September 04, 2007, 10:38:33 pm
Belgian Wiltons (regardless if this is one or not) get dirty because the way they are manufactured makes the polyprop filaments stand upwards because they are shot through 2 layers of backing then guiloteened to make 2 seperate carpets. Being a smooth filament and usually very dense, the dirt has nowhere to hide and sits on the surface therefore appears dirty very quickly.
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on September 04, 2007, 10:48:24 pm
Polypropolene is Olifenic (the Yanks call it Olifen) and is naturally tacky so it is in some ways dirt attracting and that's before you've even cleaned it Dave :o :o

Shaun

PS and they don't get much tackier than that!
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: stuart_clark on September 04, 2007, 10:48:52 pm
Well Geoff it looked like a Bw to me, but if it is not i stand corrected ! when they started importing Belgian wiltons into the country some thirty years ago they were actually a wool mix and a much betterr quality, but I havn't seen one myself apart from one that the customer had brought over from belgian , but that was over ten years ago in Thirsk north Yorkshire and I havn't seen one made of anything other than polyprop since


Best regards Stu Clark
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: John Gregory on September 04, 2007, 11:37:49 pm
Belgian Wiltons (regardless if this is one or not) get dirty because the way they are manufactured makes the polyprop filaments stand upwards because they are shot through 2 layers of backing then guiloteened to make 2 seperate carpets. Being a smooth filament and usually very dense, the dirt has nowhere to hide and sits on the surface therefore appears dirty very quickly.

What a brillient way to descibe to customer how the carpet is made, going to use this line when I next survey one

thanks John
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: gwrightson on September 05, 2007, 06:16:21 am
looks like next time I am there, I shall have to retest :)   ;) shame i didnt take any pics of the wool flufs coming out of the carpet, and I stand corrected if I am wrong .Will have to be a little more thourough in my analasis next time :).
   Anyway, their are obviously some resoiling factors been voiced here, Dave in paticular, the whole idea of encap is to "as the name itself implies" is to encapsulate the dirt, the greasy ,oily tacky dirt not the dry soiling that can be removed by prevac.


    For those of you whBroaden your understanding

Professional cleaners enjoy making use of the "cleaning pie" - that is, time, temperature, agitation and chemical.

Encapsulation cleaning makes good use of the cleaning pie.

Geoff

While the temperature is not as high for encapsulation cleaning (with the exception of encap rinses used with hot water extraction), and some of the time (pre-conditioning dwell time, especially) is less than some other methods, the agitation and chemical aspect of encapsulation cleaning is so effective that you'll never miss a beat with this method of cleaning.

For those not familiar with encapsulation cleaning, here is a brief description. Later in this tip, we will discuss practical application.

Encapsulation chemicals have detergency just like the typical chemicals that you use right now. So if you think encapsulation cleaning replaces detergency and surfactancy, don't worry about it.

The main difference is in the crystal polymers found in encapsulation chemicals.

These polymers in this detergent mixture are like the "second wave" in an army attack.

After the detergents have done their work (attacking, separating soils from fibers, etc.) the crystallizing polymers surround or encapsulate the detergent in solution and the soils that are now suspended or emulsified.

Here are two illustrations you can view on the Scot's Tuff website. These help explain the process:




 




 

As the entire mixture dries, the encapsulation polymers dry to a crystal. This crystal is not sticky; instead, it allows easy removal with subsequent vacuuming.

Look at the photo below. This photo was included in the November 2003 CM/Cleanfax article by Rick Gelinas of Excellent Supply . The article topic: Encapsulation: A practical tool for commercial carpet care .

It looks like the carpet is clean... but it's not.

 


After the encapsulant is added and worked into the carpet, the carpet (well, the areas that are lighter) looks clean.

It's not. The soil is still there, but it is "encapsulated" and waiting for someone to follow up with a vacuum cleaner.

Click here to download and view a video on encapsulation cleaning, courtesy of Rick Gelinas.

Imagine the benefits for huge facilities or airports - areas where truckmounts just don't work.

Each time the carpet is vacuumed, it gets cleaner because more soils inside the crystal polymers are vacuumed
o have never seen Jeff Cross,s article Here is an copied sample
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: stevegunn on September 05, 2007, 07:30:59 am
How effective is encap on really dirty restaurant carpets because the one in the pic is not too bad?
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: gwrightson on September 05, 2007, 08:03:09 am
Steve, I am cleaning a working mans club in a couple of weeks, black top around the bar areas, really bad surrounding the snooker and darts areas, will let you know how effective it is.
I did a sample area for the custy in an area , and was pleased with results ....... as was custy , hence the the booking . but , I beleive a little more work may be involved in some areas.

Geoff
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: stevegunn on September 05, 2007, 08:05:50 am
Look forward to that  8)
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: Matt Read on September 05, 2007, 04:40:08 pm
So if the more its vaccumed the cleaner it gets , is that time limited ?

Mike said previously, a thorough vaccum is important or you may get problems further down the line, if it was not post vaccumed correctly do the crystals then burst ?

I take it you can never apply stain guard to a carpet that has been encaps cleaned ?
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: carpetguy on September 05, 2007, 04:55:04 pm
Some encap' products have built in protector
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: Dave_Lee on September 05, 2007, 05:26:43 pm
Geof,
I dont want to get into a big debate about this, but the way the Encap works as you describe is precisely how Dry Foam Shampoo works. The shampoo detergent breaks down the soils, separating them from the fibres. The separated soils are then held in suspension surrounded by the shampoos foam, which then dries to a crystal containing the soil. This is then vacuumed away when dry. Just as it was 30 years ago. Problem is not all the crystals are vacuumed away, the remaining ones then break down and re- release the soil.
When the carpet then cleaned some time later by HWE the large amount of residue left by the foam shampoo is regenerated into foam clogging up the hoses and waste tank, horrible! If Encap doesnt create the same problem, as I believe it will, I stand to be corrected.
Dave.
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on September 05, 2007, 06:44:26 pm
Dave the New encap has a different shaped crystal and vacuums away easily compared to it's predicessor.

Geoff you can still get tufts from a BW carpet and yes they do look like wool soft and fluffy, get the lighter out next time and not too much of the beer ;D

Shaun
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: gwrightson on September 05, 2007, 06:48:45 pm
I believe dave , that the advancement in the make up of the encap products are far superior to what they were 30 yrs ago, and from the research I have done the encap products are now far better than just a couple of years ago, as are most chemicals and new products.
outstanding results are been shown , in Australia and now the USA were buisnesses, etc do not want down time. cleaning can even take place in a working area with minimul distruption and noise.

I think your belief, that clogging of hoses is a little exaggrated , as post and routine vacuuming extract any residule left, thats one of the benifits, acting like a barrier to dirt over a period of weeks.
please dont misunderstand me, I am not saying it replaces h/w/e  but in the right envoiroment its perfect........ in my opinion :)
Geoff
Title: Re: encap update
Post by: gwrightson on September 05, 2007, 06:50:24 pm
  ;D  ;D

 ;D

just goes to show Shaun, never assume , but not to much to worry about been L/m

Geoff