Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Majestic on August 27, 2007, 02:41:18 pm
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We are doing a large job in Leeds and it needs to be finished by Wednesday. As it was Bank holliday Monday I asked my employee if he would work and I would pay him overtime for it.
Yes he said , so I was going to pick him up at 6am.
I had a text from him this morning at 5am telling me he was to ill to come in. I phoned him and asked why he had not called me yesterday so I could make other plans.He told me he did not have my home number, I told him to look on the back of his t shirts, sweat shirts as my number is on there This has really messed things up for me today, and I could not get all that I wanted to do today done .
So what would you of done
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depends wether he was worth the hassle?
if he is a valid employee i probably would have gave him a warning, if it happens a lot or he was a bit of a messer i would replace him with someone else.
Surely it can't be that bad? no chance of catching up over the next couple of days???
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I can't vote on this as there is no clear cut decision
The things you need to clarify is:
- How long has he worked for you? is it less than a year?
- Have you had any previous occasions where he has done similar things and how have you dealt with it, formally or informally, do you have anything documented?
- What is his absence record like, has he been off sick in the past.
- What is the reason for his sickness, was he hungover and if he was, can you prove it?
- Does he have written Terms of Employment detailing the actions he must take if he is absent.
If it's the first time it's happened then there is very little you can do, I would document the fact that he has failed to notify you in a timely manner.
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totally agree with lionheart on this subject .
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He has been with me for 10 months
He had a Monday off 3 weeks ago , his car broke down when he was out of town.
This time he has said he had a cold.
In the past he has not had time off
I have lost a few jobs because of his poor work.
I have told him not to bother commng in anymore and will give him 1 months pay as notice
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He has been with me for 10 months
He had a Monday off 3 weeks ago , his car broke down when he was out of town.
This time he has said he had a cold.
In the past he has not had time off
I have lost a few jobs because of his poor work.
I have told him not to bother commng in anymore and will give him 1 months pay as notice
Can anyone on here say they have never blagged a day off??
But after reading your last thread were it has cost you Jobs, this isn't just jobs thats lost but money, and the possibility of future work with those customers, If I had been in the same boat, I would first look at how reliable he was, if I had any reason to have warned him in the past, if the answer is yes, then just like an unreliable customer I would bin him.
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How do you pay him? If you are on a weekly contract then you only need to pay him one weeks notice, a month's notice after only 10 months service is excessive.
In future make sure you have a contract of employment drawn up within the first couple of weeks. I have a copy if you want one.
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He is paid weekly, I have mentioned to him about him missing windows but he has denied it . But so many customers cant be wrong, some of them I have had for a while as well. One of the jobs was nearly £1k per year, but I just put that down to them wanting a cheaper window cleaner.
Ian
If you could send me a copy.Thanks
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been in the same boat lads letting me down , at one stage i had 5 working for me . i now work on my own with wfp i must say this makes up for all the lads who worked for me . its up to me now when i start & finish . best move i made going wfp . by the way are you trad or wfp .
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Both ,On most domestic jobs I dont make much from him, its just the commercial ones that I needed him for.
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give it a go on your own . i had one top class worker who i thought i couldnt cope without . how wrong i was i just do all the lot on my own took me some time getting used to being on my own but its worked out better for me by being on my own & not just money wise .
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This is why i`ve said in the past that it`s just not worth the hassle if there ok now it won`t be long before there trying to lead you up the garden path,if you give him a telling off all that`s going to do is cause an atmosphere at work and that can be worse than having a stomach ulcer,the simple thing to do is get rid of him if it keeps up and it will i`m sure and get rid of every job you know you won`t miss or jobs that are average payers,keep all the cream work and go it alone you`ll earn more money by just sifting through the C*** work,employing people can make you feel that if you don`t have someone with you your never get everything done and you`ll end up rushing round to get things done,this is not the case.Working alone is all about using your head when selecting work to keep on or take on,this is the difference between earning really good money or an average wage,employing is not all it`s crack up to be i know from experience want to earn more money and have a stress free life,then go it alone and get quality work trust me.
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All that I was doing on the domestic jobs was finishing earlier, When he had time off I still did the same amount of work without him , but I just finished a bit later
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Exactly what i`m saying John,i do at least the same 9x out of 10 i do more and normally finish about an hour later.But when your working with someone you yourself work slower and not so organised so when you add up all the chatting stopping for breaks and them not coming in on time etc,it`s a no brainer really.I thought i`d hate this job on my own,long live WFP.
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think nwh as taken the words out of my mouth . coulndnt agree more ;) . yes long live wfp
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Problem I found with employing young guys is they would come into work with a hang over, and Mondays was excuse day. Yes we have all done that but when it is your business that you have built up then you just have to give them the boot.
I'm still thinking about using Students as flexi as they are always looking to earn money.
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I'm afraid i disagree guys, i've had a few guys work for me, i've had the wool pulled over my eyes a few times but now my work and workers seem to be stable, i'm not saying that i will ever have problems again but everytime i have a problem i try to rectify it so it doesn't happen again, i have learned that treat people with respect and most will return it, if they don't then get them replaced, i try to be fair with people and pay them decent wages, sometimes i do feel that maybe i get lead up the garden path a little, but its a bit of give and take, if they take the total mick then i flex my authoritie. maybe i'm lucky i don't know but the bottom line is if i encounter a problem i try to solve it so it doesn't happen again.
I also don't agree with getting as much work done on your own, my figures always double with a 2 man team rather than a one man team
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problem with students they just want the money & dont give a poop about doing a good job ive tryed it mate .work on your own theres only one person to blame then and thats yourself . :)
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I`m sorry but i can`t agree with the double the work comment,that all depends on what you mean ie number of houses yes,amount of money earned no.
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99 out of 100 couldn`t give a S*** about your name and reputation,the proof was in the pudding and i ate it.
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money earn't! i could obviously go out and get a load of over priced work but then its always at risk of being undercut, i don't work for peanuts and i'm quite expensive compared to others in the area. the money is always double with 2 people as we get twice as much done.
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Nothing wrong with overpriced work Nat,it`s the underpriced stuff i don`t want.
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99 out of 100 couldn`t give a S*** about your name and reputation,the proof was in the pudding and i ate it.
then ask yourself why couldn't they give a s***? are you paying them enough? what icentives did they have to work hard for you?? etc etc...
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Nothing wrong with overpriced work Nat,it`s the underpriced stuff i don`t want.
of course you don't, none of us do but you have to be realistic otherwise you leave yourself open to competition!
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i get as much done with wfp , as what 2 , 3 ,or 4 people can do . belive me ive had 5 people working for me . i now do the same work on my own . all i did was tell custy i was going once a month rater than every 3 weeks . i still have 3 days spare but i just got some extra work off a old man i helped out . give it a go on your own . look after number 1 . ;D
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It dosen`t matter what you do,at the moment your obviously going through a purple patch with your workers where all is running smoothly.The garden only says rosey in the summer somone told me. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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its that kind of negative attitude that will always keep you working on your own, find solutions don't be negative ;) theres always a way you just need to find it! :)
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I`ve had 4 working with me before now at 1 time,i made the decision myself it wasn`t forced upon me.With 4 workers you have to find at least £1500.00 a week at least before you pay the deisel things for the business etc,to make it worth while you need to be taking at least 12-13 grand a month otherwise you might aswell be on your own.
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yes better on your own . nat theres no negative attitude just seems that myself &nwh have employed & we now find it better on our own . its fact that we are better off on our own . dont knock it till ya try it ;D .
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I`ve had 4 working with me before now at 1 time,i made the decision myself it wasn`t forced upon me.With 4 workers you have to find at least £1500.00 a week at least before you pay the deisel things for the business etc,to make it worth while you need to be taking at least 12-13 grand a month otherwise you might aswell be on your own.
i thought we were talking about unreliable staff not facts and figures?
the figures you are talking about are your own estimations and i don't find them to be nowhere near mine, I don't think it really relevant to be talking figures just solutions to your problems in regards to staff.
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yes better on your own . nat theres no negative attitude just seems that myself &nwh have employed & we now find it better on our own . its fact that we are better off on our own . dont knock it till ya try it ;D .
I have tried it, and i find it 10 times better employing.
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Nat the only things i`m worried about mate is putting food on the table and paying the morgage and buying the Mrs what she wants,what i said based on 4 workers on a decent wage is fact you should be taking every month what your paying out otherwise it just looks good on paper,it`s called turnover and that means nothing it`s got to pay it`s way like an employee and if it dosen`t it`s gone.
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ok nat youve tryed it on your own . i prefere it & its working for me i used to employ and found it a waste of time . same as ive said i aint lost any work by going it alone .
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I now employ 12 staff, regardless of what anybody else says there is no way I could be earning what I do now if I still worked on my own, there are just not enough hours in the day. If you want to be able to retire and still have an income coming in then you need to grow your business and get others to work for you, to your standards and expectations, you also need to pay accordingly.
You need to operate as a business, in my former life I was a factory manager with 250 staff working under me, the same principles apply if you are employing just one person. Make sure both you and they understand what is expected, if they fail in any area, be it performance, attendance, discipline or whatever, then it has to be dealt with professionally and documented accordingly.
All my guys and girls know what the standards are, they have a copy of what I expect, they know what their Terms of employment are, what their sick pay and holiday pay is, basically it's all in black and white with signed copies of everything, if they fail or underperform then I will deal with it and document it for our records.
I sacked a lad earlier on in the year for poor performance, gave him one weeks pay in lieu of notice and got rid of him on the same day.
If this person has worked for you for less than a year then you can get rid of them quite easily, they have very few legal rights. But in future get a signed contract from them as early as possible.
John, I will send you a copy of our Contracts tonight.
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couldn't of put it nowhere near as good as that, well done lionheart, and well said!
the biggest jump i found was being a successful sole window cleaner, to being a successful window cleaning company, delegate and have systems in place and you will not fall short
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Lionheart how many WINDOW CLEANERS do you employ.
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It was starting to look like Nat was going to need somebody to come along and rescue him. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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sorry son but it was you two that bailed ;)
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I am allowed to eat my tea arn`t i. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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back on track
sack him
he has done it once, its only going to go 1 way now, and thats him taking the pee
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NWH,
We now have 5 full time window cleaners, others on Carpet Cleaning and Office & Domestic Cleaning, also do a bit of pressure washing and hard floor cleaning
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i may be wrong but if he is full time on the books you cant just sack him!
He has employees rights, i understand its a pain when some one lets you do but twice in 10 months is not a lot and these things happen.
I would put an attandance bonus in is wage has an incentive!
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I thought as much,i am talking completly window cleaning and nothing else.The exchanges we had on this thread were all window cleaning issues and not the running of an allround cleaning business which i have also run myself over the years,you will probobly say that the day to day running of the businesses are the same where`s we both know that as far as money coming in there worlds apart.As you will know keeping wcs working week in week out and month in month out is a different ball game and can be more stressfull where moneys concerned,with carpet cleaning hardfloor cleaning etc your not talking the same talk.As far as money is concerned and wc if you employ staff you have to turnover a hell of a lot more money than you think,Nat was saying that he is far better off employing staff and in my reply to that i said it might make life a little easier sometimes but as far as money is concerned i bet he`s not better off than he would be working on his own, to which he replied with 0.
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NWH - There is no difference with what business you run the rules of employment are exactly the same. There is no stress either way, providing you set up your Terms of employment properly, my window cleaners and carpet cleaners get paid a percentage of the work they do, my office cleaners get paid on an hourly basis. Simple.
Ronnie - If he has been with the business for less than 12 months, then yes, you can just sack him, providing you give him statutory notice
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i bet he`s not better off than he would be working on his own, to which he replied with 0.
didn't i reply that 2 people earn twice as much much as one person? i can't remember now! ;)
I'm by far better off than i was or could be on my own, and as business grows so does the profit, so in answering your question i'm sorry but its a big fat YES!
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So John, what have you done?
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Lionheart are you sure ??
I was sure that has all changed now unless in a probation period??
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I sacked him the same day, it was not about him not comming to work . It was about him sending me a text on the day and not phoning me the night before . He said he had been ill all wekend . The best was he said he did not have my phone number, ;D its on the back of all his t shrts / sweat shirts
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Ronnie,
Exctract from Business Link Website:
Employees can usually claim unfair dismissal only if they have worked for you for at least one year. Until October 2006 they usually also had to be below your normal retirement age (NRA), or 65 if you don't have an NRA. However, since that date there had been no age limit on claims for unfair dismissal.
The right to complain to a tribunal about unfair dismissal is unavailable to:
• self-employed people
• independent contractors
• other special groups, generally the police
Wrongful dismissal has no qualifying period or age limit.
I'm not aware of any changes in the legislation, we retain the services of an HR/H&S consultant to keep us up to date with any new legislation.
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HI john, sorry to hear about this problem, you know where i am if you need a hand with anything.
jason
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Your proberly right then braveheart i was just under the impression that there was a route an emplyer had to take b4 dismissing someone no matter wot the amount of time he has been employed.