Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: davids3511 on August 20, 2007, 11:42:20 pm
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Hi All
I am relatively new to this WC business and trying hard to build up a customer base. I have targeted new build estates thinking some will not have had a chance to get a window cleaner as of yet and trying to get my foot in the door. Basically I leafleted the estate about a week ago and went canvassing last Thursday. Came away with three new customers for an hours work.
I had intended to releaflet and revisit in about a month as alot of people were not home and I was off to pastures new for a few weeks to basically try the same formula, leaflet and follow up with a canvass.
However, today I go a phone call for an existing WC asking if I was the guy leafleting on his round. I asked where he was talking about and confirmed I was leafleting that area. He stated that was his patch and I should keep off it. He suggested there is an unwritten window cleaners rule that patches are to be left alone. I explained I was not trying to steal his customer, I was not undercutting him and if a householder said they had a cleaner, we left them alone immediately.
Apparently this is not good enough. The whole estate, which according to him are the houses he currently cleans, the houses he hasn't got as customers as of yet and houses as yet unbulit are his 'patch'. I told him to get stuffed and that if he could mark the doors of his existing customers with a big red cross, I wouldn’t leaflet or canvass them. I asked why he was so worried if he did a good job. His reply was that it was his patch, had been for 18 months and basically he would turn all the other window cleaners against me (I don't really care if he does if they are too stupid to see through him) if I didn’t go away. I can’t believe he really though I would say ‘ohh, really sorry, back on the dole for me it is sir’.
He also stated he would target every one of my new customers and offer them 3 months free cleans. I told him 'best of luck in working for nothing' and he replied 'he could afford it'. I don't really care about this remark; if he wants to kill himself for nothing then he is welcome to it. I will make sure I get as many customers as I can so he is very busy working for free for the next 3 months.
Basically, what pes me off s that I asked how he built his round and he said he cleaned the show houses for free so the estate was his. He couldn’t understand that if he was new 18 months ago, didn’t buy an existing round, then he is doing exactly what he is angry with me for doing. He is even going to specifically target my customers’ something I am not doing to him.
Basically, I feel like going into the sales office tomorrow,asking if they recommend a window cleaner and going and having a quite word, face to face, not over a phone call where I have restricted the sending of my number like this idiot. What do ya think?
Sorry for the long winded post, by the way.
David
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Don't retaliate - just quietly go about your business and let it pass.
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I've found that usually it's all hot air.
There's no rules between window cleaners. It's the customer that decides and not the window cleaner.
I'd just carry on. If he wants to do whatever then wish him the best of luck and forget him and if he phones again, just say ok, what ever you say but carry on doing what you want.
I think he's just 'windy'.
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Malc
Thanks, I'll try that. However, normally I am ok but 3 hours sleep in the last 36 is killing me now.
rosskesava
Yes, now that I have calmed down, I suspect you are right. I myself have often sworn mortal revenge on someone only to forget about it the next day.
David
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There's no such thing as a patch.
Business is business and everyone is out to make there cash.
If you leaflet 1,000 houses, guaranteed 500-600 already have there windows cleaned, and how were you to know.
Like you say, if he is doing a good job, why is he bothered?
Customers will drift from one place to another but thats the world of business,and being self employed.
All i'd say, is if canvassing and they say they have a window cleaner, just leave them with a flyer and move on, leave it to them to decide.
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We had this yesterday afternoon.
We were cleaning a old ladys house in a village we visit and this bloke pulled up in white van and started saying what were we doing his brother is the window cleaner of this village etc etc So we tell him it's no-ones village and that we had been cleaning in the area for 2 years.
So he drives off and 5 mins later his brother is there telling us to leave his patch etc etc. Now Andi my co worker and I normally get on with most wc'ers around us but this geezer was a real pain.
He had been cleaning the village for years years and we only got customers there as they did not like the fact that he was too quick and left many windows dirty. Which we told him.
He just stormed off!!!!
My view is leaflet and canvass where and when you want. If the current wc'er has any worries then he cant be doing a good enough job.
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David I had this from 3 window cleaners when I first started last year...we just told them that we will not deliberatly steal work or underprice to get work....but they should expect to see our leaflets in 'their' area's from time to time.
I have not as of yet heard anymore....I would imagine it's not that someone new starts but if they decide to do 10 quid jobs for 3 quid...that will be the scary thing.
Cheers and good luck
Dave.
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Never have that problem thats the good thing about being 6 foot 2 and 16 stone ha ha ha ha they just walk away shame they dont even say hello maybe the growll's not helping oh well
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There's plenty of houses to go around,.. so this kind of agro is completely uncalled for.
Where I am, I know all the local cleaners, and often pass work on to them when I'm too busy,.. and they do the same for me when they have too much on. We all get on, and none of us are ever short of work!
I think if he's reacting like that then he must be feeling a bit insecure. Either he's been getting a lot of complaints recently, or a lot of custies drop him!
There's no unwritten rules between window cleaners,.. You can't know every WC'ers round, so leaflets will inevitably end up in the houses of someone's customers, there's nothing you can do about that,...but if someone tells me they have a window cleaner already, don't pursue it any further. You can't be fairer than that!
I think what you're doing is 100% right,... just carry on,.. ignore him, and concentrate on building a successful business!
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I think the consensus seems to be to ignore him and get on with the job. With a bit of luck he was just blowing off some steam.
EasycleanWindows -
I know what you mean; I get very little hassle face to face. I am 6'2" as well but a stone or two heavier.
Thanks for all the replies guys.
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I think the consensus seems to be to ignore him and get on with the job. With a bit of luck he was just blowing off some steam.
EasycleanWindows -
I know what you mean; I get very little hassle face to face. I am 6'2" as well but a stone or two heavier.
Thanks for all the replies guys.
I get no hassle either. Although I'm a big build myself, I hope that hasn't got anything to do with it. I'm just not interested in heavy stuff like fighting for work. I worked in a fair sized village for years and I reckon I must have had more work there than anyone else (probably because I was too cheap). I never gave any hassle to other w/cers nor did I receive any. IMO it's a pathetic attitude.
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I can see both points here. This guy has obviously built up a decent run from this estate say a possible 60 houses in 18 months. A newbie windowcleaner arrives, leaflets all houses and picks up 3. 1st he is annoyed with himself for not getting these three then he is going to get even more annoyed when you leaflet this again. Personally i wouldnt touch an estate with a windowcleaner already there especially to do only 3 customers. On the other hand when you are roundbuilding you have to target any new houses in the area.
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Show me an estate where all the houses are all dirty due to no cleaner being there. You'll have to look a long time.
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In my opinion, the words estate and decent round don't really go together. Sure, some people have got good rounds by doing estates but having other wc trying to get a foothold comes with the territory.
Where else are new wc going to canvas?
Doing a good job and just as importantly being reliable is the key to keeping customers happy. If both aren't achieved they will go elsewhere when they can.
Fortunately, almost all threats are just that.
I bet when he sees you out he will give you a wry smile and a wave.
Good luck, although you don't sound like you need it.
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Danny
I don't really understand where you are coming from. He is claiming houses that are not even built yet, how can that be right?
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By the way, just had a call from one of the 3 customers I had canvassed successfully. She was cancelling because another window cleaner offered 3 months free cleans. I saw red and drove to the sales office on the estate and politley asked if they had any window cleaners details.
The supplied one name and number, who I rang. He didn't answer the phone the two times I tried. I left a message to say I was David and was back in Manchester today and available to talk to him face to face. I explained that I had a drive aroung the area hoping to bump into him to continue our discussion but couldn't find him and if he could let me know where he was currently at I would be happy to come and see him.
He hasn't called back as of yet!
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good luck in building your round up mate dont let a arsehole like him stop you doing what tou want to do . ive been on a estate today with 3 other cleaners we all do our own houses have a chat with each other and pass work on to each other . thats how it should be . just go for it mate
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By the way, just had a call from one of the 3 customers I had canvassed successfully. She was cancelling because another window cleaner offered 3 months free cleans. I saw red and drove to the sales office on the estate and politley asked if they had any window cleaners details.
The supplied one name and number, who I rang. He didn't answer the phone the two times I tried. I left a message to say I was David and was back in Manchester today and available to talk to him face to face. I explained that I had a drive aroung the area hoping to bump into him to continue our discussion but couldn't find him and if he could let me know where he was currently at I would be happy to come and see him.
He hasn't called back as of yet!
I think being angry about this is pointless. If he wants to work for nothing for a while it's his lookout. It's not you that's the mug. It's him. She will probably drop him as soon as someone cheaper comes along.
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By the way, just had a call from one of the 3 customers I had canvassed successfully. She was cancelling because another window cleaner offered 3 months free cleans. I saw red and drove to the sales office on the estate and politley asked if they had any window cleaners details.
The supplied one name and number, who I rang. He didn't answer the phone the two times I tried. I left a message to say I was David and was back in Manchester today and available to talk to him face to face. I explained that I had a drive aroung the area hoping to bump into him to continue our discussion but couldn't find him and if he could let me know where he was currently at I would be happy to come and see him.
He hasn't called back as of yet!
Why are you getting angry? He's just doing what he thinks is necessary to retain his business. IMO He's a fool to offer 3 free cleans and she's not a customer worth having. I'd carry on with the other two customers just to be a thorn in his side! ;D
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I am angry because he is a hypocrite. He accused me of stealing customers that are not even his yet while he thinks it is ok to specifically target my customers. I take someone making a concerted effort to put me out of business (at lease in his area) quite seriously.
The anger is gone now, determination is setting in. I am all ready to to knock on every door in that estate a little later this evening.
He still hasn't rang back by the way.
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By the way, I have his address now too. He lives in another town about 5 miles away. A brand new estate is in the processing of being built there, about 400 houses so far. Guess where I am leafletting tomorrow evening and canvassing next week!!
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love it, tell us how you get on!
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By the way, I have his address now too. He lives in another town about 5 miles away. A brand new estate is in the processing of being built there, about 400 houses so far. Guess where I am leafletting tomorrow evening and canvassing next week!!
heeheehee
Don't forget to target the show homes 1st.
Prepare a little pack with what services you provide and offer to do them free if they will pass on your details to all new buyers. ;D
He's peeing against the wind that's for sure.
It could be a blessing in disguise for you.
As i said earlier i think you will struggle for a long time to build and keep a good round based on housing estates. (which is what i suspect the other wc is finding out.)
If you can, find out what church/parish magazines cover the little villages outside your area and get an advert in those.
A £10 a year advert has provided me with 90% (directly and indirectly) of the work i do now. Higher rates in the villages and once you get a foothold you will probably leave town work for good.
The competition among wc will always be greater in urban areas.
Whatever you can earn on these estates per house will probably be about 50% of what the same house in the countryside will happily pay.
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Or better still post his telephone number on here and we can all give him a call and tell him we have got a new window cleaner in his area and would be wondering if he would do ours for free for 3 months instead of me using this window cleaner! ;D
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Sorry to double post if I have but what your saying has just brought a flash back from today before my eye's. Pulled into my road today and there is a window cleaner in my street cleaning away. So he looks at the ladders then looks in the boot and see's a load of buckets and scrims and stuff then I get the >:(. So I carried on pulled up outside my house and started getting my gear out. He walks up the road and says " Thought you were on my patch then" so I said " No your on mine!" >:( I gets it again. So I says " Do mine if you want?" and he laughed. Whats so funny I thought turning a job down, why can I never find a window cleaners. How come no one canvasses my house bloody good job my house and I wouldn't grumble for what they charged!
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I had a drive past his house today, just to see if was the mansion of someone who 'could afford to do three months of free cleans'. It is a house split into 6 bedsits. I was desperate to post one of my leaflets through the door but though that would be adding fuel to the fire.
Instead I just canvassed the estate again and got two new customers!
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Keep it up mate or show your new custy your insurance details and tell them to ask anyone else knocking for their insurance ;)
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I had a drive past his house today, just to see if was the mansion of someone who 'could afford to do three months of free cleans'. It is a house split into 6 bedsits. I was desperate to post one of my leaflets through the door but though that would be adding fuel to the fire.
Instead I just canvassed the estate again and got two new customers!
Well done. Just keep your side of the street clean and don't worry about what the others do. That way you will do alright.
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He is a cheapo too.
Apparantly he is WFP and charges £6.00 for a three floor house with 13 windows!!! I wonder if he is declaring/signing on???
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I must admit my hackles would rise if i had gone through the same experience as you, but the more you're telling us about this bloke the more i'm feeling sorry for him.
Move on as soon as you can davids, or it will eat away at you until you corner yourself and have to act. After this has cooled down he might turn out to be a ally. Sometimes you don't get the best out of anyone until you've had the worst.
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He is a cheapo too.
Apparantly he is WFP and charges £6.00 for a three floor house with 13 windows!!! I wonder if he is declaring/signing on???
More fool him then. At those rates, he could keep the whole estate for all I would care. He probably earns reasonable money if it's very compact work and if he works hard. Carry on workjing smart, be content to build it gradually, and you will end up earning twice what he earns with less effort.
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You see the reason he does this is in alot of cases new window cleaners dont have much of a clue and just want the work, iv seen it done on a friends round. Then they end up taking one of the others customers for a stupid price then not doing it after two cleans. This then leads to you picking the job back up and you geting them saying ' well the last window cleaner done it for this much '. At the end of the day it is just a pain in the behind and that is the reason he will not want you on his patch. As for the houses that are not built yet he would have picked them up as they were in his area.
But you need to make a living too and if you cant find work you gota get it somwere so you may as well try what you can.
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just come in on this one and dont have time to read all replies, but if this guy is claiming all the houses not yet built, what about people like me that clean newbuilds and leave flyers for the people moving in. Does this mean he's taking work of "my patch" ??
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Hi Biscute
I disagree. The reason he does this is that he doesn't want competition. You make it sound like he is some saint, doing everyone a favour and making sure they have a regular window cleaner. He rang me and told me to get off his patch and that if I didn't he was going to target all my customers to basically run me out of town.
As for under pricing, I charge alot more than he does.
"As for the houses that are not built yet he would have picked them up as they were in his area", I won't even comment on that. To me that is a ridiculous statement. Do you think Tesco look at a town and go ‘oooh, there is a Sainsbury’s already there. Maybe we should be a sport and go elsewhere so as not to upset them’.
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Hi Biscute"As for the houses that are not built yet he would have picked them up as they were in his area", I won't even comment on that. To me that is a ridiculous statement. Do you think Tesco look at a town and go ‘oooh, there is a Sainsbury’s already there. Maybe we should be a sport and go elsewhere so as not to upset them’.
How true this is. I dunno what it's like in the cities but around here there are several wc working the same estates. All friendly enough and no bad feeling.
Biscute had a point though about the pricing. In my limited experience of housing estates the customers are mainly interested in price. Nothing more.
Quality customers and prices seem to be few and far between on estates.
Always playing wc's off of each other for the cheapest price.
As you will begin to notice when you've had a presence on them for a while.
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He got another one today. A house I quoted £12.00 for he is doing for £5.00
I am going to bide my time for a few weeks now. The next step is to see if he is signing on. If he is, bingo!
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This reminds me of a trip we done to newcastle (south tyneside) Canvassing!
There are certain estates where you do not canvass due to this agreement with window cleaners that this is there patch/s. Mainly council estates, where people are on benefits and window cleaning part time for beer money, cleaning houses for £1-£3 per house, with beer cloths. This was fact, i felt for the company we were representing.
Even commercial buildings were being cleaned for peanuts, the point is we could not compete with some of the window cleaners prices due to there low low prices and threatening patch control (as they called it).
If this posts relates to you then please dont be offended, this was just our 1 week experience of hard to target areas.
ADVICE:
We knock 6 hours a day 3 days a week (as we have knocked thousands of doors all over the country) choose your areas wisely, remember this is your business and lively-hood, so DONT WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY SEARCHING IN THE WRONG JUNGLE.
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He got another one today. A house I quoted £12.00 for he is doing for £5.00
I am going to bide my time for a few weeks now. The next step is to see if he is signing on. If he is, bingo!
What part of the country are you in?
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Hi Biscute
I disagree. The reason he does this is that he doesn't want competition. You make it sound like he is some saint, doing everyone a favour and making sure they have a regular window cleaner. He rang me and told me to get off his patch and that if I didn't he was going to target all my customers to basically run me out of town.
As for under pricing, I charge alot more than he does.
"As for the houses that are not built yet he would have picked them up as they were in his area", I won't even comment on that. To me that is a ridiculous statement. Do you think Tesco look at a town and go ‘oooh, there is a Sainsbury’s already there. Maybe we should be a sport and go elsewhere so as not to upset them’.
Of course there is no guidance on how big a "patch" is either.
Right then. I'm going to run every other window cleaner out of Sussex. I want Sussex all to myself.
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You can`t have it all to yourself,i have half of it LOL. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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they have the same sort of agreement in aylebury. I was told by one w/c'er over there that they all got together, agreed "patches" and set their own prices so that they all charge the same rate for the same size house, and if you try to move in on a patch, or undercut one of them, you then have ALL the window cleaners coming down hard, not just one. Whether its true or not I dont know, but I aint got the bottle to find out
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You can`t have it all to yourself,i have half of it LOL. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Ok ok. I'll take the West and you can have the East.
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I'm very glad to say that in all my years I've never come across this problem. If I did though, how about this for a response?:
Listen, sonny, how long have you been in this business? I've been cleaning windows all over Noth Kent for nearly 40 years now........
You're on MY patch.
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That suits me Shiner,i`ll keep the east.Get orrrrrrfffffff my laaaaaaaaand. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I think you miss understood my post, I was simply telling Dave how the other guy probably saw it. It was not my point of veiw or opinion, or ment to strat a debate, it was a reply to a question someone asked and to try and clear up what Dave might of thought.
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Hi WCR
It is an affluent area in Cheshire. The average house price on the estate is £300000. It isn't a council estate.
David
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Think we are all going to have to agree that in certain areas you can canvass even if a windowcleaner has about 90% of the work you are entitled to canvass and hope some other customers jump ship, where in other areas where the windowcleaners have most of it tied up you accept you were too slow and the other windowcleaner deserves some praise for doing his best to stay in top of his work and build a decent wee round.I would also give this guy a massive pat on the back and using his brain by doing the showhouse for free, soon he will have the lot and also the people who move into the showhouse. This is not a dig at anyone just an opinion.
Danny
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Biscute had a point though about the pricing. In my limited experience of housing estates the customers are mainly interested in price. Nothing more.
Quality customers and prices seem to be few and far between on estates.
Always playing wc's off of each other for the cheapest price.
As you will begin to notice when you've had a presence on them for a while.
I intentionally quote higher than other window cleaners in my area, and I'm never short of work. My customers usually come to me when their old shiner disappears or comes only when the mood takes him. If you offer a professional and regular service (And I think most people on here do), then price should have little to do with building your round.
Maybe I'm just lucky that my competition aren't all that!
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My roundapparently (so I have been told by customers) strays onto the patches of three other window cleaners. Only one has stoped and asked me about the house I am doing. when I told him my price, he was astonished that I was charging a tenner and he was charging 3 quid and I still got asked by word of mouth to do the job. He then went on to try and sell me his round!!
All I gotta say is that there are more than enough windows for everybody, and estates is where new wc tend to start (i am currently at this stage). People moving into and out of estates all the time, and as long as your quality is better, then you will get the few quality customers...
Tell this guy who threatened you to ball off and bounce.
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Send him a text message that you are passing his details to the DSS and Tax Man, and do it.
Also post his number here so we can all have our windows cleaned free of charge.