Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: steve-mark on October 13, 2003, 11:37:43 pm
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:) Hi All,
I'm just starting my 1st winter at window cleaning, and as the temps start to fall I can't help but wonder what's the best thing to use to stop the water freezing up.
Can anyone Help on this one ?? ???
Many Thanks for any help you can give
Steve
Tone Clean
Taunton.
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Steve
If it ever gets that cold, have a day off!!!!!
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Hi Steve,
After looking at your post i thought i would have a look at the titan website the makers of gg4 to see if it had freeze protection and it recommends adding methanol ??? If that works for gg4 i guess you can add it to anything ??? I go out very early in the morning and i have not had the water freeze for years ;)
Steve Lowe
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Sorry the website is www.titanlabs.net :D
Hope this helps
Steve
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You can use windscreen washer fluid but methylated spirit works just as well added to your solution. On very cold days the windchill will freeze on the glass, you'll notice that central heated rooms help also. Past this and you probably won't be able to use your hands anyway :D
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haha! yeah, its a bitch when you applicate a window and it freezes on and you can only get it off with like a scraper or somthing. has to be really cold for that though
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oh, pregnant dog eh? very clever. yo ho ho ho.
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If it is cold enough to freeze my water it`s time to go home 8)
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If it is cold enough to freeze my water it`s time to go home 8)
Same here, I have had it freeze on glass though.
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only have that trouble on coservatorys we have not had a bad winter for a long time. mind you this year the forecast is not good. tip do loads on the warm days and stay in bed on the realy cold days
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Nearly froze last night, nearly.....
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Add salt and an electrical current through your de-ionised water to turn it into electrolyzed water, ideal for cleaning not just glass but many other surfaces indoors to replace harmful cleaning products.
Popular with dentists and hospitals.
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Nearly froze last night, nearly.....
This post is nearly 19 years old 😂😂😂😂
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Nearly froze last night, nearly.....
How on Earth do you resurrect a nearly 20 year old thread Adam? 😂
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Nearly froze last night, nearly.....
How on Earth do you resurrect a nearly 20 year old thread Adam? 😂
Lol he wasn’t evan a member for another 10 years after this was originally posted 😂😂😂😂
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Hi Steve,
After looking at your post i thought i would have a look at the titan website the makers of gg4 to see if it had freeze protection and it recommends adding methanol ??? If that works for gg4 i guess you can add it to anything ??? I go out very early in the morning and i have not had the water freeze for years ;)
Steve Lowe
Thanks for the tip - any advice on how much methanol to add to say... 500 tank
Cheers
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Hi Steve,
After looking at your post i thought i would have a look at the titan website the makers of gg4 to see if it had freeze protection and it recommends adding methanol ??? If that works for gg4 i guess you can add it to anything ??? I go out very early in the morning and i have not had the water freeze for years ;)
Steve Lowe
Look at the age of this post it’s 19 years old !,,,,,,, doubt you will get a reply from them .
Thanks for the tip - any advice on how much methanol to add to say... 500 tank
Cheers
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Hi Steve,
After looking at your post i thought i would have a look at the titan website the makers of gg4 to see if it had freeze protection and it recommends adding methanol ??? If that works for gg4 i guess you can add it to anything ??? I go out very early in the morning and i have not had the water freeze for years ;)
Steve Lowe
Look at the age of this post it’s 19 years old !,,,,,,, doubt you will get a reply from them .
Thanks for the tip - any advice on how much methanol to add to say... 500 tank
Cheers
Dohh!
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It may be old but its still as relevant today as it was then
Day off for me btw ;)
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the more things change - the more they stay the same ;D
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Take the day off
High pressure creeping back in tomorrow should be 14 in north east so catch up tomorrow .
Wanting to get out but not worth the hastle of water freezing on glass. ok facing the sunshine but in the shade it may freeze
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You would be better off running water back to tank all night if you could do to keep everything moving the pump on low uses little battery power so should be fine,or empty the hose reel every night and wrap the pump.
Traditional today in the parts I’m working you couldn’t trad windows in the shade all frozen up,get a diesel heater 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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-2 for me this morning.
8am start and no problems though. Hot water has started making me money early this year. ;)
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To be fair probably could have worked, it got to zero about 10am and a couple of degrees above now...
I just didnt fancy it this morning, must be getting old.
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Without hot water I couldn’t have worked today same as that Jonny -2-3 ish.
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thawed a bit more now, sun shining im heading out . want all cleaned early for xmas need to put my feet up for a few weeks.
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If you can’t get a days work done at -2°C then you are doing something wrong. Cold water is good for as low as -4°C as long as you take a minute to heat the van overnight in my experience.
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Mate come on now who wants to work with cold water WFP in -2-4 conditions I did a house this morning with paper thin glass so I had to pre heat then turn it off,when the water was cold and unreeled out the hose was looping like wire cable.
We’ve had many many discussions on here about is hot better than cold ie does it clean better etc,the simple answer is yes it is better it cleans way way better it’s better to work with not only at the moment but all year round.
Any person I’ll say again thinking about hot water over cold there’s no comparison,does cold water clean windows yes of course it does,does it clean better than hot water ? all I can say is that it’s quicker to clean with and does a more comprehensive overall job of the whole window.
It’s like comparing an Audi S to an RS version they are night and day they get you from A-B but 1 does it better,I have a new Audi RS by the way 🤣🤣👌👌
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Some people NEED hot water because they cannot clean windows to a decent standard with cold water.
Others just get on with it and are capable of doing a proper job with cold water.
Again you are assuming that everyone is as useless as you, which is not correct.
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Mate come on now who wants to work with cold water WFP in -2-4 conditions I did a house this morning with paper thin glass so I had to pre heat then turn it off,when the water was cold and unreeled out the hose was looping like wire cable.
We’ve had many many discussions on here about is hot better than cold ie does it clean better etc,the simple answer is yes it is better it cleans way way better it’s better to work with not only at the moment but all year round.
Any person I’ll say again thinking about hot water over cold there’s no comparison,does cold water clean windows yes of course it does,does it clean better than hot water ? all I can say is that it’s quicker to clean with and does a more comprehensive overall job of the whole window.
It’s like comparing an Audi S to an RS version they are night and day they get you from A-B but 1 does it better,I have a new Audi RS by the way 🤣🤣👌👌
I heard the sale of dinky toy cars had increased ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hot freezes just the same as cold so it doesnt allow you to work in any lower temps. Granted it probably makes the job a bit more enjoyable on these days but at what cost ? 5k for the system and a fiver a day of diesel. Not worth the trade off imo
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worked down to minus 5c in snow in the past
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Mate come on now who wants to work with cold water WFP in -2-4 conditions I did a house this morning with paper thin glass so I had to pre heat then turn it off,when the water was cold and unreeled out the hose was looping like wire cable.
We’ve had many many discussions on here about is hot better than cold ie does it clean better etc,the simple answer is yes it is better it cleans way way better it’s better to work with not only at the moment but all year round.
Any person I’ll say again thinking about hot water over cold there’s no comparison,does cold water clean windows yes of course it does,does it clean better than hot water ? all I can say is that it’s quicker to clean with and does a more comprehensive overall job of the whole window.
It’s like comparing an Audi S to an RS version they are night and day they get you from A-B but 1 does it better,I have a new Audi RS by the way 🤣🤣👌👌
I heard the sale of dinky toy cars had increased ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Have they m8 well you may well know that 🤣🤣
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Hot freezes just the same as cold so it doesnt allow you to work in any lower temps. Granted it probably makes the job a bit more enjoyable on these days but at what cost ? 5k for the system and a fiver a day of diesel. Not worth the trade off imo
Total toilet talk you haven’t ever worked with hot water then have you another knocker that’s never used hot.
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Niggle - your always arguing from a point of ignorance never fact..
Hot or cold pure cleans the SAME! - introduce detergent and hot significantly cleans better (because the detergent works better)
for the vast majority of what we clean there is no difference only a comfort factor
- and I again remind you - you used to say that hot water would wear out glass prematurely ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
what a joke
Darran
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Hot freezes just the same as cold so it doesnt allow you to work in any lower temps. Granted it probably makes the job a bit more enjoyable on these days but at what cost ? 5k for the system and a fiver a day of diesel. Not worth the trade off imo
Total toilet talk you haven’t ever worked with hot water then have you another knocker that’s never used hot.
You are the only one that understands the language of a toilet mate ;D Hot water freezes at zero degrees same as cold. How will it allow me to work at lower temps ? It can melt ice but it will soon cool and freeze on the glass the same as cold will.
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The metal jets freezing up, normally stops me. Are the new gardiner ones metal or plastic? I’ve not checked.
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Hot water freezes quicker on glass than cold water when temperature is below zero. Worse windows to clean when below zero are conservatories with no internal heating.
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Hot water also melts through iced up plastic windows trust me I did a couple of jobs today where’s the back of the houses conservatory’s were frozen solid sills glass the lot,ok it may freeze back again but it’ll freeze back cleaner than it was.
It’s like the Mk2 escort boys saying old beats new from stock lol.
Cold water cleans yes does it do as thorough a job no,will you have to spend twice as long cleaning with cold to get the entire window to the same standard as hot yes you will.
There’s no end of people on here that agree with me that use hot water but keep quiet because they can’t be bothered good on em 🤣🤣,it must be approaching December people moaning on about the cold and frozen pipes again.
Any cold users got any con roof cleans booked in for tomorrow morning in the Manchester area or South East come to that,it’s tatas down here too 🥶
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Hot freezes just the same as cold so it doesnt allow you to work in any lower temps. Granted it probably makes the job a bit more enjoyable on these days but at what cost ? 5k for the system and a fiver a day of diesel. Not worth the trade off imo
Total toilet talk you haven’t ever worked with hot water then have you another knocker that’s never used hot.
You are the only one that understands the language of a toilet mate ;D Hot water freezes at zero degrees same as cold. How will it allow me to work at lower temps ? It can melt ice but it will soon cool and freeze on the glass the same as cold will.
Yeah hot freezes quicker I agree you clean a plastic window or conservatory with hot water Stoots and then go and clean another one with cold see what floats you’re boat m8,you ain’t used hot water have you lol.
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Introduce a detergent and it cleans way better with cold I agree but let’s talk in terms of speed as well as the overall job with hot water Darren,once you start using detergent you are in to rinsing to the cows come home territory.
The idea of WFP is no chemicals cover the glass in a detergent or chemicals you’ll leave spots and runs and risk a very good chance of doing an awful job,the only time I would ever use chemicals is on either a first clean roof or windows that have lots of trim that’s gone green.
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Any cold users got any con roof cleans booked in for tomorrow morning in the Manchester area or South East come to that,it’s tatas down here too 🥶
It’s forecast 10°c here for 9am tomorrow, the struggle will be real ::)roll
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for CRYING OT LOUD ;D ;D
Go to work if you are able , take precautions not to freeze by whatever method .
if its to cold to work , stay home
if its to cold to work it will probably mean that you look like a desperate TIT whether you are using hot or cold .
Hot water will still freeze all over their paths anyway.
I am lucky as my tap water is 49ppm at the moment so I just fill up with hot through the DI.
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I don’t do houses that have many paths round em 🤣🤣 there’s a very knowledgeable bloke I know will tell you about hot water,his names Luke Warm lol.
I diesel heater solves all these I’m frozen up I can’t work my pumps like ice problems trust me,combine an electric reel and an Extreme poles and you’re day won’t be any easier this is me signing off banging my head against another brick wall lol.
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But you couldn’t tell me how to stop my van from freezing up could you 🤣🤣🥶
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Hot water freezes quicker on glass than cold water when temperature is below zero. Worse windows to clean when below zero are conservatories with no internal heating.
No it doesn't mate.....I thaw ice off glass and frames in cold weather with hot water...when I used to use cold it wouldn't touch it....
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I hadn't planned on working today anyway..... been for my haircut,gym and booked a 10 day holiday to the Maldives for next October..... ;D
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Introduce a detergent and it cleans way better with cold I agree but let’s talk in terms of speed as well as the overall job with hot water Darren,once you start using detergent you are in to rinsing to the cows come home territory.
The idea of WFP is no chemicals cover the glass in a detergent or chemicals you’ll leave spots and runs and risk a very good chance of doing an awful job,the only time I would ever use chemicals is on either a first clean roof or windows that have lots of trim that’s gone green.
you really don't read at all do you - hot water is superior when used with detergents - detergents work better when used with hot water
pure water on its own cleans exactly the same hot or cold for the majority of window cleans
please try to read things - but then again perhaps this is you think hot water put wear marks into glass ??
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Darran
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Just taking the time to show you what's written Nige.....
I live in hope that one day you might engage a couple more brain cells and debate a subject rather than be a billy boo ya sucks..
Niggle - your always arguing from a point of ignorance never fact..
Hot or cold pure cleans the SAME! - introduce detergent and hot significantly cleans better (because the detergent works better)
for the vast majority of what we clean there is no difference only a comfort factor
- and I again remind you - you used to say that hot water would wear out glass prematurely ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
what a joke
Darran
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I’m not saying it doesn’t work Darren I’m saying you will need to rinse more m8.
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Hot water freezes quicker on glass than cold water when temperature is below zero. Worse windows to clean when below zero are conservatories with no internal heating.
No it doesn't mate.....I thaw ice off glass and frames in cold weather with hot water...when I used to use cold it wouldn't touch it....
I know I did the same today Daz de-iced a couple of conservatory’s on the backs of places glass and frames if you go over them with cold it just looks like your icing a cake it goes nowhere,I should have used a bit of detergent that would have done the trick 🤣
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Hot water freezes quicker on glass than cold water when temperature is below zero. Worse windows to clean when below zero are conservatories with no internal heating.
No it doesn't mate.....I thaw ice off glass and frames in cold weather with hot water...when I used to use cold it wouldn't touch it....
Absolutely disagree with you!
If you pour one litre of hot water over glass that's not frozen in sub zero temperature, it will freeze up quicker than cold will .....it's a well known proven fact called mpemba effect, look it up on google. Cold water is denser, hot water evaporates quicker.
Mpemba effect: As the initially warmer water cools to the initial temperature of the initially cooler water, it may lose significant amounts of water to evaporation. The reduced mass will make it easier for the water to cool and freeze. Then the initially warmer water can freeze before the initially cooler water, but will make less ice.
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Here's the dilema, hot water cleans better than cold water because it's molecular structure changes allowing it to absorb more contaminants and various other technical jargon: however cold water freezes slower in sub zero then hot simply because it's denser and loses less volume through evaporation.
Whilst the hot water will ice up quicker than cold water, it will be less dense because a larger volume of density has been evaporated. So thinner ice will have been warmer water, hence why as heat rises horizontally, it's always the bottom of the pane that has the thicker ice and also thanks to gravity.
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Hot water freezes quicker on glass than cold water when temperature is below zero. Worse windows to clean when below zero are conservatories with no internal heating.
No it doesn't mate.....I thaw ice off glass and frames in cold weather with hot water...when I used to use cold it wouldn't touch it....
Absolutely disagree with you!
If you pour one litre of hot water over glass that's not frozen in sub zero temperature, it will freeze up quicker than cold will .....it's a well known proven fact called mpemba effect, look it up on google. Cold water is denser, hot water evaporates quicker.
Mpemba effect: As the initially warmer water cools to the initial temperature of the initially cooler water, it may lose significant amounts of water to evaporation. The reduced mass will make it easier for the water to cool and freeze. Then the initially warmer water can freeze before the initially cooler water, but will make less ice.
I know about the Mpemba effect, but honestly, in the real world of window cleaning it doesn’t happen. Perhaps with boiling water where evaporation is more prevalent? Who knows. We only use warm/hot.
Have you tried this in practice? I presume the theory behind it must be that it occurs in a specific set of scientific circumstances that in the real world we just don’t see.
For instance…….. a conservatory that has no heating and glass is all frozen up.
Cold water user - your water adds to the ice on the windows, it’s impossible to clean without scraping everything off, and even then it’s likely to ice up as soon as you start.
Hot water user- you thaw the ice off first in a few seconds, then clean the window as normal. In my experience the residual heat you put on the glass stops the few remains droplets freezing, but even if they do freeze it’s pure water that when it thaws out it looks perfect.
If the Mpemba effect was evident in our job then hot water would be very less effective, and I’d be noticing it every winter. In reality, I don’t.
Feels like Groundhog day with these conversations but I can’t help myself. ;D 🤦♂️
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I’ve been put off Golf GTD’s Audi RS’s and the Maldives for life.
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Hot water freezes quicker on glass than cold water when temperature is below zero. Worse windows to clean when below zero are conservatories with no internal heating.
No it doesn't mate.....I thaw ice off glass and frames in cold weather with hot water...when I used to use cold it wouldn't touch it....
Absolutely disagree with you!
If you pour one litre of hot water over glass that's not frozen in sub zero temperature, it will freeze up quicker than cold will .....it's a well known proven fact called mpemba effect, look it up on google. Cold water is denser, hot water evaporates quicker.
Mpemba effect: As the initially warmer water cools to the initial temperature of the initially cooler water, it may lose significant amounts of water to evaporation. The reduced mass will make it easier for the water to cool and freeze. Then the initially warmer water can freeze before the initially cooler water, but will make less ice.
I know about the Mpemba effect, but honestly, in the real world of window cleaning it doesn’t happen. Perhaps with boiling water where evaporation is more prevalent? Who knows. We only use warm/hot.
Have you tried this in practice? I presume the theory behind it must be that it occurs in a specific set of scientific circumstances that in the real world we just don’t see.
For instance…….. a conservatory that has no heating and glass is all frozen up.
Cold water user - your water adds to the ice on the windows, it’s impossible to clean without scraping everything off, and even then it’s likely to ice up as soon as you start.
Hot water user- you thaw the ice off first in a few seconds, then clean the window as normal. In my experience the residual heat you put on the glass stops the few remains droplets freezing, but even if they do freeze it’s pure water that when it thaws out it looks perfect.
If the Mpemba effect was evident in our job then hot water would be very less effective, and I’d be noticing it every winter. In reality, I don’t.
Feels like Groundhog day with these conversations but I can’t help myself. ;D 🤦♂️
Under extremes there could be some validity to the Mpemba effect. I would certainly agree with you that in the area I work and conditions I work in, I can't see it having an effect on me. Water was leaving the heater at 50 degrees yesterday, and just barely warm at the jets with 30 or so meters of hose out on the ground.
For me, just having more manageable hoses and a warm pole to hold is the plus. I don't wear gloves.
There are even some scientists who question the Mpemba effect. I assume that those who do aren't also members of the flat earth society. :)
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Hot water freezes quicker on glass than cold water when temperature is below zero. Worse windows to clean when below zero are conservatories with no internal heating.
No it doesn't mate.....I thaw ice off glass and frames in cold weather with hot water...when I used to use cold it wouldn't touch it....
Absolutely disagree with you!
If you pour one litre of hot water over glass that's not frozen in sub zero temperature, it will freeze up quicker than cold will .....it's a well known proven fact called mpemba effect, look it up on google. Cold water is denser, hot water evaporates quicker.
Mpemba effect: As the initially warmer water cools to the initial temperature of the initially cooler water, it may lose significant amounts of water to evaporation. The reduced mass will make it easier for the water to cool and freeze. Then the initially warmer water can freeze before the initially cooler water, but will make less ice.
You say the same thing every year! ;D
However it doesn't happen day to day cold weather window cleaning...quite the opposite actually,defrosting velux windows is an added service for me in the winter months! ;D(and the occasional customers windscreen!) 8)
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I hadn't planned on working today anyway..... been for my haircut,gym and booked a 10 day holiday to the Maldives for next October..... ;D
The Maldives might not be there next October if you keep heating your water.
Listen to Greta, Daz. She wasn't even a year old when this thread was started, btw.
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Yeah it’ll be there next year Daz don’t worry m8 enjoy beautiful place what island are you going to.
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How many times have we been through this topic?
Even revived from the grave ;D
I think some on here would have an argument in an empty room and fall out with their own shadow! ???
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It’s the time of year happens like clockwork as soon as people go out and all is frozen they wonder why,if for 1 reason only it’s worth having a diesel heater it would be for the frost stat only come out in the morning even if it’s been Baltic temperatures and everything is hot and supple,that in itself is worth the money imo.
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It may be old but its still as relevant today as it was then
Day off for me btw ;)
I still can’t understand how you even found it !
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Yeah it’ll be there next year Daz don’t worry m8 enjoy beautiful place what island are you going to.
Love Island I would have thought.
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Yeah it’ll be there next year Daz don’t worry m8 enjoy beautiful place what island are you going to.
Love Island I would have thought.
South male atoll
Manchester to dubai then dubai to velana Airport then speedboat transfer to island.... 8)
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You know where the water bungalows go out to sea I do hope you’ve got the one at the end with the pool 🏊♂️ 🤣🤣
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You know where the water bungalows go out to sea I do hope you’ve got the one at the end with the pool 🏊♂️ 🤣🤣
I've booked a villa with a private pool and balcony mate....👍
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Well done m8 nice one makes all worth getting up and going out in the cold 🥶 👌
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Yeah it’ll be there next year Daz don’t worry m8 enjoy beautiful place what island are you going to.
It might not be there atoll.