Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: maxcarpets on August 15, 2007, 08:24:53 pm
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Evening all, I have invited my yp rep on to this forum, I would like him to read you views, so here's your chance. Be gentle !
Cheers
Justin
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***********!!!!!! yell pag ************** you! freshi
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Used them for 3 years and never made them pay. This year stopped them, no diff in business.
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Just to add I tried Yell this year and not one job.
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Revenge is one of the seven sins Justin....poor bloke this rep once the hounds unleash.
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Where are you based Justin
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i have got an ad in yell an yp
since ........oct last yr......6 calls....2 jobs
still not enough to pay for my ad yet!!
will not use next yr
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Been advertising in there for 21 years. Depends where on the page it is to make it work. Did ok with it last year as the ad was on the top of the right hand page.
This year it is in a terrible place- top of left hand page second to last page of carpet cleaners despite being called Astra Clean. I do not expect to even break even where it is and will be complaining to my rep. Probably, due to the crxp place they have put me-and i stil dont understand how companies begining with M and S get in front of me-I will not advertise with them next year.
Clive
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I put a poll on C'talk if you go across you'll get some details for your rep.
Shaun
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Can't really put my finger on it, but this year (in conjunction with yell.com) has more than paid for each monthly installment.
We have reduced the advert size so that it doesn't look like we are going to charge the earth, when compared to the other half page adverts.
Thomsons got well and truly dumped this year after continuous losses against what we paid them.
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Yellow pages and yell have been a complete waste of money for me for the last 2 years ,which cost me 5 grand.Will only be doing a basic listing from now on for reference purposes .Harlow,Essex. >:(
Mark
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Absolute crap, be lucky to even get half my money back this year, as Clive says, unless your at the front it wont work!
Also the new sponsord listing on yell.com which stays at the top all the time is a complete rip off, when the rep called he never mentioned this, in previous years the company at the top alternated every time a customer logged on.
I would never trust Yell or their reps.
WARNING! Spend your money on something else like Google or do leaflets the way Mike Haliday does them.
Phil
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As an NCCA Member, I use the Corporate Advertising facility from Yellow Pages. Two directories £114.00. Don't get many calls from it, but those that I get are not price shoppers. The ads probably give a return of about 500% +/- a bit. Works for me.
I feel that, despite the growth of the internet, my Y/P presence is most valuable when existing customers have lost my card/invoice/phone number and they want to seek me out. They let their fingers do the walking :(
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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£114 x 500% = £570 so the return in cash I think we would have all gone bust!
not everyone has no morgage like you Ken ;D
When I went in my local YP with the corporate NCCA bit when I was a memeber I got price shoppers, you will always get price shoppers they are the ones that ring EVERY number to compare prices it's how they work.
Shaun
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As I said Shaun, I don't get many calls and even if it had a negative return I would still do it because of the existing customer scenario I described. For this reason, I regard Y/P as being a necessary evil. It swallows up more than half my annual advertising budget :o
It's strange, but I don't advertise in Thomsons at all, just my free listing, but over the last year or so I've been getting more calls from that source. Mainly price shoppers with a poor conversion rate.
Safe and happy advertising :)
Ken
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Great comments guys, please keep them sensible .
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Do you reckon your YP rep's even bothered to look. He has a job to do and earn his commision. I doubt he gives a toss about what we think. Yellow Pages is as thick as ever so there are plenty of people out there willing to hand over their money.
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You need to ask to have the small 6 A's put in the botom corner of your ad to get to the front, reps wont offer this you need to ask, this will get you to the front of the section no matter what initial your company has.
Mark
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If a business has to start with A to get to the front, thats why there are silly names like Aardvark.
If every one does that then one would have to go to Aaardvark, then Aaardvark and so on.
Gets silly.
One of the directories, forget which one but either YP, Thomsons or Bt Phone Book, told me they are going over to size (obviously size matters-pay more-get better treatment) and length of time a business has been a loyal customer.
That seems sensible to me - then we can all keep our names - like Extracare Carpet Cleaning
Joe H
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Just to let you know I work for YP in Sales and will be following the progress of this post over the next few weeks.
Please note the positioning policy for YP is not based on size and purely on your company name that YOU supply us. YES, we allow 6 A's for those people who request this.
There are only 2 slots available for top listing on Yell.com per directory and maybe the reason why you have not been offered this.
YP is still one of the cheapest mediums to advertise in when you look at cost per 000's. For example, the Reading directory alone goes out to 191,000 households and businesses. How much would it cost you to distribute leaflets to an equivalent area?
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It`s a thumbs down from me. If they got delivered properly you might get a better response.
From my experience in Edinburgh, they just get dumped at the foot of the stairwell and I still see them lying there
7 months later. If they think I`m spending my hard earned cash on a service like that, then they are very much mistaken.
Rab. >:(
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Please remember that the question you need to ask your customers is "Where did you find our telephone number?" not where did you get me from or how did you hear about me.
I am confident that this will surprise you.
Many of your existing customers will use Yellow Pages to find you, if you are not there what impression does it give?
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I second that Rab!!!. We chuck out or re-cycle thousands of new yp books every year because they are dumped in the bottom of the stairwells we service . We leave them for a few weeks after the drop but few are taken up. They become a public nuisance and an environmental disaster!! Make great door stops though. All this business about reaching so many thousand homes with one advert assumes 100% uptake
which is no where near the case.
Glad I got that off my chest :)
Fred
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Like Ken says £150 or so for the corporate ad or a small one, so existing customers can find you.
Last year I spent over 2K, I wont be doing it again. Yes I always ask where they got my number.
I appreciate there are many factors to consider, but not for me thanks.
Quote"Where did you find our telephone number?" not where did you get me from or how did you hear about me."
Could you please elaborate, I cant really see what your getting at.
Cheers,
Rab.
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Please note the positioning policy for YP is not based on size and purely on your company name that YOU supply us. YES, we allow 6 A's for those people who request this.
[hahahaha, I have 6 aaaaaaaaaaaa's and it put me on page 5 of the section!
There are only 2 slots available for top listing on Yell.com per directory and maybe the reason why you have not been offered this.
Dont want it offered to me, just leave it as it was and let any company alternate at the top, or at least tell us when you are changing things to suite your pockets!
YP is still one of the cheapest mediums to advertise in when you look at cost per 000's. For example, the Reading directory alone goes out to 191,000 households and businesses. How much would it cost you to distribute leaflets to an equivalent area?
So when you deliver the big yellow book does it get delivered with my advert showing and no-one else, if not then stop comparing it with leaflets.
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Please remember that the question you need to ask your customers is "Where did you find our telephone number?" not where did you get me from or how did you hear about me.
The phone doesn't ring because of yellow pages, customers are probably poughing their way through the 1st 5 pages before they get to my add.
Many of your existing customers will use Yellow Pages to find you, if you are not there what impression does it give?
Rubbish!
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the easiest way to get to the front of your section is to place a number of dots before your name or around your advert, infact anyware in the ad like this................................................................................your company name, or ...........................aaaaaaaaaaaaa your company name, then you WILL be at the front, we placed a 6 grand add with yp, and got shoved to the back because of these practices which the reps wont tell you about, we refused to pay, they tried to take us to court and we won, mainly because they did not produce their terms and conditions of bussiness when they signed us up, they never do, this is in fact illegal, and against the finance act, so dont be bullied or bulshi**ed by them, their legal department or their reps, they are blatent liars and if you sit back and dont take them on you are allowing them to walk all over you, they know that what they are doing is illegal, but you need to take them on.
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Ash
Put this in front of John Condron (Yell's CEO) and he will give his usual I don't give a f&*k about you, all I care about is keeping the shareholders happy.
Forget it mate, you are on ahiding to nothing. Guys on here are too switched on to the BS and they know there wares to be influenced by what you were taught at Slough.
Pete
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p.s. as an ex rep myself (when the co. was genuinely interested in providing geuine leads for its advertisers) I have seen countless speeches given by him and it's clear he is motivated by what I said in my last thread.
Moderators, I suggest you remove this attempt by a rep to sell YP on here (or at least put it on the buy and sell section where it belongs.
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Simple Example.
When was the last time you saw a Direct Line or Churchill advert on TV/Newspaper/Billboard?
Do you remember the number from the specific advert? Most likely not.
If after a week of seeing the advert you needed to renew your car insurance would you still remember the number?
Its your choice what you turn to in order to find that telephone number : Internet, Directory, Leaflet or Telephone (118). (please note I am not saying everyone will pick up just the directory)
Similarly, I may have seen your van on the street, passing by, or picked up a leaflet at some point. Now, when I need my carpet cleaned I will use one of the above options to get your number.
When you ask me where did I hear about you I will most likely say I saw your van or leaflet.
BUT, where did I find your number?
This is why I recommend you ask EVERY customer where they found your telephone number...
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Pete I think that's a bit unfair but I appreciate where you are coming from, I do believe that us carpet cleaners are very 'switched on' to how and where we spend our money so we DO know if a cerain advertising medium is working or not the same as if a certain chemical works or not, mainly because it either will cost us time or money.
Hopefully the Yellow Pages Rep will respond with some answers, by the way my YP rep said that she can only come at 2pm latest on a day that is no good to me as I don't finish until 5ish all the other reps I've seen have been happy (well agreed) to see me then-
Ahtisham_h can you have a word with the Sheffield Directory ?
Shaun
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had the yellow page rep on the phone a while back, even after not paying for our 6 grand ad, which by the way only produces £2200 of work, tried telling me that my competitor up the road is getting 120 calls a month from his ad!!, and only advertises in the yp, i asked which competitor, and i happen to know him, he's starving to death, i said listen love i've been in this bussiness for 20 years and if you expect me to believe that bullsh**t then your are more stupid than i originally took you for, but she kept insisting that this was the truth, after 15 minutes of this crap i had to put the phone down on her.
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Ive stopped yellow pages and now just use leaflets and papers etc..lots of my customers tell me the yp goes in the bin. Im doing a lot better than last year waiting for people to decide they want their carpet cleaned and pick up the yp etc .Im now suggesting they have their carpets cleaned with leaflets and my phone is ringing much more than last year. i still have my free one liner in yp though but have only had 3 calls from it so far. As for yell.com ..about 2 calls in 2 years.
Ollie
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I have never had a yellow pages rep phone me untill about a month ago. I have to admit that I explained why I didnt want anything to do with y/p and she was happy to not pressure me any farther.
In almost 30 years of being self-employed, not all to do with cleaning, I have never advertised and asked where she had got my number from. Sadly she wouldnt offer that info but oh well.
Anyway this was really a side note that at least the reps arent all as pushy as most seam to be.
Antisham_h, if I asked every single client of mine where they got my number from then not one would answer from the yellow pages.
Best, Dave.
P.S. Personally I wouldnt use the y/p for anyones number but thats just me.
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Hi Guys
Two seperate issues.
Paper directories will decline to nothing in the next 10 years, I have seen a marked reduction in YP enquiries in past year with exactly same adverts.
Yell worked O.K until as Phil says they got greedy with the sponsored listings, I dropped my advert last year as it didn't pay enough and my other internet advertising i.e websites dwarfed it .
I am a big advocate of the internet and Yell has a presence, but nothing like YP has in the directories market.
To see Yell and Thompsons advertising on Google addwords says it all !
Cheers
Doug
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Hi Guys,
First I have to say that this YP is a very nice guy, I invited him to see your views on YP. This can only help everyone involved so, no need to be rude.
I must say though, I think like for like the response from 191,000 leaflets would be greater.
Come on Neil I know you have views on this.
Regards
Justin
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When i used to advertise in yp i put 5 dots at the start of my name, eg ".....astroclean". That gets you to the front without looking cheap and nasty.
I also complained 3 years running about the postioning aspect and got 25% per cent refunded.
I don't currently advertise with them as i have switched to btphone book....it is done on size and loyalty with them and you get a lot more for your money as they are currently trying to muscle in on the market.
Not sure if i will bother with either next year as my business is more established now but i understand why so many younger business' feel they need to advertise in them,the reps are very convincing with all the stats but in my opinion only one stat counts and thats yours,it is a pain asking customers but its the only way you will know if its working.
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The dots have been replaced with the 6 A's or so yellow pages hae told me. Having the dots now will mov your ad to the back ;)
Mark
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Shows how ridiculous it is now then...they told me 3 years ago it was all going to made fairer ! If i see a's in front of a company name i start thinking house of horror's !
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Well, I'll say it again, ours has more than paid for each monthly installment.
I find some of the comments on here nothing less than rude and from people who haven't even filled in a fraction of their personal details.
For what it's worth (to all those 1,000's of leaflet drop people) I ALWAYS dump any of this stuff straight into the bin.
Actually I wish more of you wouldn't advertise in YP because that will leave a bigger market for me.
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Well here goes.
Last year I was told there would be no prefix's of any kind in the book including ........ aaaaaa. Books comes out and what do I find all the companies are listed as aaaaaaaaa. So Justins was aaaaaaMax Cleaning. My name is A Clean Touch and you would think I would be near the front I was on page 8 and of all the companies listed in front of me only 2 should have been infront of me if listed alphabeticaly as per their Terms.
The best bit is that the sales Rep gave me a letter detailing that no prefixes should be infront of your company name and those that are will be placed at the back. Lie's Lie's Lie's. They insist that all these companies can do this because there company name is aaaaaaMax Cleaning, Like Hell they are.
I have not paid a penny for this so they are saying they are going to take me to court. I am currently getting letters from their debt Collectors Tenon demanding full payment.
They told me lies but offered me a 40% discount on the Adverts. I am going to let them take me to court if needs be but I am not going to budge on this. They wont admit that they are wrong.
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Well, I'll say it again, ours has more than paid for each monthly installment.
Well lucky you then, mine hasn't and never does, this is the last time I will be ripped off.
I guess you are near the front of the section, because you haven't a hope if you in the middle.
The sponsored listing on yell.com was never mentioned when the rep came round, we now get an inferior producy at the same price, I will say it again Yellow pages is overated, going colour has only in affect lined their own pockets because everyone has to go colour to compete, in fact it's probably better now to go white and stand out from the colour.
Phil
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Neil,
And now for something really ironic.
I did a suite clean in Yateley today thanks to YP/Y.D.C
Neil W
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If you have a letter guard it with your life and you will win win win in court, I don't think they will even take you there if you send a snotty letter and a copy of their letter to them.
Shaun
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Neil,
And now for something really ironic.
I did a suite clean in Yateley today thanks to YP/Y.D.C
Neil W
Your point being?
Phil
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I guess you are near the front of the section, because you haven't a hope if you in the middle.
Page 7 of 7. Neil Grainger can prove that as we're in the same book.
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Not being clever here, but another CC in my area had his advert at the back and swears he had a good year due to people who read things in reverse, like a newspaper.
Its when your in the middle it doesn't work, I am convinced of this.
Phil
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No Ironic really, I did 2 myself today in Yateley through google. Yellowpages is rubbish and google is the way forward.
Neil I am not in this years book so it can be all yours, I have come accross your work when your customers have rang me to put things right ;)
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Ladies please
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No Ironic really, I did 2 myself today in Yateley through google. Yellowpages is rubbish and google is the way forward.
Neil I am not in this years book so it can be all yours, I have come accross your work when your customers have rang me to put things right ;)
I wasn't being personal or having a go at you but if you want to go that way bring it on.
name the customers or the address's (willclean@ntlworld.com)
FFS what is it with this site
Infact as you've now put this on a public forum I'd advise you to name these customers or I'll consider legal advice on slander.
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Shaun, Ashtin,
I don't think I am being to hard. I am speaking from both sides of the fence. I was a rep for YP for 6 years. Everything Ashtin has mentioned is straight from the ISTC (initial sales training course) I was taught in 1993.
Ashtin I know you do a tough job (which by the way you get paid hansomely for - about £34k basic alone + car + laptop + mobile) and I don't doubt you are a nice fella but you have to understand that the things you are now talking about are dated. If someone wants to find you these days its very easy. YP is not the monolopy it once was.
To be fair, YP was once a license to print money and now (for the most part) its a license to lose it.
Lets just agree that the internet and well thought out direct marketing and networking is the way forward.
To throw a caviate in there, it seems there are still geographical pockets of resistance to the YP don't work any more, but mostly it is a machine used to making alot of money and working hard to remain in that vein.
Pete
Simple Example.
When was the last time you saw a Direct Line or Churchill advert on TV/Newspaper/Billboard?
Do you remember the number from the specific advert? Most likely not.
If after a week of seeing the advert you needed to renew your car insurance would you still remember the number?
Its your choice what you turn to in order to find that telephone number : Internet, Directory, Leaflet or Telephone (118). (please note I am not saying everyone will pick up just the directory)
Similarly, I may have seen your van on the street, passing by, or picked up a leaflet at some point. Now, when I need my carpet cleaned I will use one of the above options to get your number.
When you ask me where did I hear about you I will most likely say I saw your van or leaflet.
BUT, where did I find your number?
This is why I recommend you ask EVERY customer where they found your telephone number...
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If as this YP rep says the best reason for being is in the YP is as a reference for people to find your number when they see your other ads on van etc, then why do we need to pay for a big colour advert surley the free one liner will do???
Dene
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Good point.
If as this YP rep says the best reason for being is in the YP is as a reference for people to find your number when they see your other ads on van etc, then why do we need to pay for a big colour advert surley the free one liner will do???
Dene
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Many of your existing customers will use Yellow Pages to find you, if you are not there what impression does it give?
Presumably the impression that you're sooooo good you dont need to advertise as your work is all recommendation.
My 'existing' customers all have my phone number already.
Stephen
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Im now suggesting they have their carpets cleaned with leaflets
Ollie
LOL Sorry ollie, just reads funny, i'm trying to picture you cleaning a carpet with a leaflet ;D
Stephen
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Neil
As you can see I put a wink at the end of that line, IT WAS A JOKE. Dont be so touchy or dont use forums like this.
I know a lot of the People that advertise in the Basingstoke Yellow Pages and most of them dont do very well out of it. MY comments come from the Guildford book that you have to be in to get area's such as Camberley Guildford Sandhurst and other area's. I considered doing it for the fact that I thought I may need a presence in it but since the advent of Google Adwords I took a view that Google adwords is they way forward and the return from that is approx 10-1 at the moment.
To be honest Basingstoke is not an area I want to work in but you need it for Fleet, Farnborough, Hook, Hartley Wintney, Church Crookham & Odiham. Where I live in Yateley I live on the border of 3 books so to get a 10 mile radius i needed to go in all 3. But I have pulled that this year and we will see what happens.
The good thing is that a lot of people will keep older books so I will still have a presence. If I find that i have lost money by not advertising then I will hold my hands and come back in. I still have my free listing though and have saved myself about £3500.
Good for you that you got a job on my doorstep. Would be amazing if I got every carpet cleaning Job in my home town.
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Neil,
I agree when I was in the Guildford & basingstoke books I lost money, I had one call from the Basingstoke book.
I dont think we should bragg about working on each others doorstep I'm sure it happens all the time, as long as we are all busy!
Cheers
Justin
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Justin
What are you aiming to get from this with the reps, I have tried this route with them before and they just come back with all their sales rubbish, they think that we were born yesterday.
Sales people say that they care but are really only interested in how much money they can get from you.
Another busy day I hope for you, Most of August is booked up, hope it carries on in September as well.
Cheers
Neil
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Neil williams wrote : I find some of the comments on here nothing less than rude and from people who haven't even filled in a fraction of their personal details.
You havent filled in a great deal of yours either, pal...... :-*
i think you should solve your problem, by confronting it....... ;D
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Great thread guys, quite impressed by the rep even being bothered to read it, although to be quite honest, dont think he would be prepared to stand up in front of a room full of customers!
Very simple way, of fixing all of the positioning problems, make each rep ask to see the cheque book of each firm that wants to place an ad, and use that to position the ad, no exceptions, spent nearly £20,000 three years ago, got well done over, (being very polite!!), never again, until that time, ads always worked well, return of at least 10 to 1.
Regards,
Rob
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Hi Neil,
Day off today new brakes on van, working sat & sun though! I just thought that the stats from yell and our stats do not seem to match, my rep has been good enough to listen so I think its a brilliant opportunity to air our views.
In my opinion the reps a fed the stats, but this does not show true results, yes we may have X amount of people look at our sites via yell but then yell do share data so many people looking are in fact trying to sell us something, so I would like to get to the bottom of yell's real worth. I also think it is good for the rep to hear our views.
Cheers
Justin
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i'll 2nd that justin
since i have advertised in yp and ydc the amount of sales calls from other companies trying to sell me something has increased dramaticallly.
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One of my competitors states at the bottom of his newspaper advert " See our ad in yellow pages " All this is acheiving is telling your potential customers to look in yellow pages and see loads of other ads when they do so and start shopping around. Very bad marketing and a wastle of of a newspaper advert.
Same goes for companies with the yellow pages sticker on their vehicles.
As for leaflets, if I recieve 1-2 leaflets I read them, if they come in a bundle or fall out of a newspaper I bin them.Always post leaflets early in week, prior to free newspaper days as these and the leaflets that fall out of them just end up cluttering the passageway.
Paul :)
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where i live we dont get the mail until 11/12 pm
i like to deliver my leaflets before the post .......that way my leaflet is picked up with the mail........at least this way they look at it on the way to the bin ;)
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Im trying out the 0845 system it will be interesting to see how many calls YellowPages think we have received compared with us.
We do try to track every call but find people confuse BT directory with Yellow pages.
Regarding AA positioning etc by allowing companies to use this it shows what disrespect Yellow Pages treat its honest traders
I am amazed a Yellow Page Rep is reading this aas in Sales you soluld not allow negitive thoughts enter your head.
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you cant rely on the 0845 system as yp will pass your details on to other companies who will call to sell you something, al these calls add to yur end of year totals.
Mark
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WOW this is one of the best threads I've ever read, can of worms or what!!
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Careful Justin, I got slated on here recently for calling an interesting debate a "can of worms"
But your right. Lots of good opinions voiced.
The AAAA thing was due to be banished by YP but because of dropping AD sales I think they changed their mind. But I agree with everyone else its a joke
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after all that has been said I am still thinking that you need to have some sort of ad in yp and with yell.com, am I right or am I living in the past?
Just signed up for google anyway!
Cheers
Justin
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You doing Adwords or a sponsored listing? If latter, do you know how much they cost.
Pete
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Yeah the company that hosts my site has offered me a good deal.
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Adwords is the sponsored listings, Take's a while to get used to it and put the right amounts in to spend on per click.
The 1 thing you have to do is check it everyday just to make sure that you are at the top or where you want to be.
Cheers
Neil
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How does payment work Neil? Is pay front and top up from there on or do they simply invoice you?
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Pete
They invoice you and take payment at the same time via debit card details that they take when you sign up. If you dont pay, your advert stops. You can set amounts you want to spend per day.
Takes a while for it to work so give it a few months but it only works if your website is good and the customers like it. I am changing my website to suit adwords and the customers that google atracts.
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i do adwords the bill allways seems to be about £4 per month and im allways near the top but hardly get any calls i dont get it
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Im now suggesting they have their carpets cleaned with leaflets
Ollie
LOL Sorry ollie, just reads funny, i'm trying to picture you cleaning a carpet with a leaflet ;D
Stephen
lol. It does look like that when I read it back!!
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If you get a moment could you check mine and see if it measures up?
Cheers
Pete
Pete
They invoice you and take payment at the same time via debit card details that they take when you sign up. If you dont pay, your advert stops. You can set amounts you want to spend per day.
Takes a while for it to work so give it a few months but it only works if your website is good and the customers like it. I am changing my website to suit adwords and the customers that google atracts.