Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Davew on August 09, 2007, 05:30:10 pm
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is costs, set up costs, running costs and most lately repair and replacement bills. Very expensive way to enter the trade.
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it is davew but it is safer and faster,but i find on cost that rubbers etc on trad method has its running bills but it makes you look after things more + if people see you spending a few ££ to do it safer they dont mind giving that bit extra rather than have the worry of someone on the ground in their property.
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I think getting started is best done by trad, then going out and buying water fed pole equipment as when you don't have much work your equipment doesn't cost much to maintain i.e squeegee blades, scrims, microfibre and then when you have your round looking boxed off then going water fed and then building up again and replacing the moaners who would rather see some poor guy fall off his ladders rather than have a window cleaner drive off leaving windows wet.
One of the first houses on my round moaned for months about a window over a roof so I did it eventually just to keep the job but had warned and warned that the weight of my ladder might damage his guttering. Which it did, job lost but wasn't too bothered really as he was really grumpy and was saying things like " I my day we would have just walked across the roof." One day I said to him " Yeah good idea, I'll just phone my insurance company and ask how is the best way to walk along a roof without ladders." I got a frown for that. >:(
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good one colley,i just say yeh and in the old days in new york they just walked across beams 10 floors and more up without harness but that was then this is now.you only get one chance and i'm sure we all had those moments :o
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The best way is trad.
It's a skill you will always need in this line of work no matter.
Wfp is the way to go & i would say the 1st year is a learning curve that i'm glad is in the past.
No matter what anyone says trad will never die, there will be times when trad is the only option.
Not only that but the set up costs need to be met, with trad you will have a customer bass. Some of these you will loose but you need to get through the switch over period. Once set up & running the running costs are low in my oppinion.
Macc
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is costs, set up costs, running costs and most lately repair and replacement bills. Very expensive way to enter the trade.
If you listen to the right advise & the correct equipment (not always nessesarily the dearest) is purchased from the start then there should be only minimal running costs.
However, if you start diy'ing fishing poles, tesco brushes, jets & goosnecks from B&Q, pump boards etc then you can expect trouble. It's called false economy. ;)
tony
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good one colley,i just say yeh and in the old days in new york they just walked across beams 10 floors and more up without harness but that was then this is now.you only get one chance and i'm sure we all had those moments :o
Good one ... I had a custy say this sort of thing to me and I said "ahh, the good old days, none of this health and safety legislation - I could bring my eight year old to work and send her up to clean your chimney and I could get my dad to remove the asbestos from your loft - all for half a crown! Bye bye!"
Am I too abrasive? My wife says I am! ;D
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is costs, set up costs, running costs and most lately repair and replacement bills. Very expensive way to enter the trade.
If you listen to the right advise & the correct equipment (not always nessesarily the dearest) is purchased from the start then there should be only minimal running costs.
However, if you start diy'ing fishing poles, tesco brushes, jets & goosnecks from B&Q, pump boards etc then you can expect trouble. It's called false economy. ;)
tony
I completely disagree, its the diyers that set the targets that the suppliers strive to follow, one example is lightness. But for banging on the suppliers doors and demanding lightness nothing would have been done. The manuf. know they cannot compete in the market place with the diyers because the price is all ready rockbottom, so try to sell an upmarket, even rolls royce blah de blah product for loads of dosh. Its a simple brush on a stick with a pump.
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is costs, set up costs, running costs and most lately repair and replacement bills. Very expensive way to enter the trade.
If you listen to the right advise & the correct equipment (not always nessesarily the dearest) is purchased from the start then there should be only minimal running costs.
However, if you start diy'ing fishing poles, tesco brushes, jets & goosnecks from B&Q, pump boards etc then you can expect trouble. It's called false economy. ;)
tony
rubbish
ive spent the total of 700 quid max in 3 and a bit years
this years running costs are = 60 quid so far
thats for --
2 of Jan 07
2 of unger pole locking clamps and inserts = £ 6.50
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April 16
1 x 2.0m x 3 Pro Pole = £23.68
1 x Pole Cone = £2.50
1 x Angle Joint = £7.00
4 x 25ltr Barrel = £18.96 <--- brought incase i need more water in the hotter summer months ( not really needed so far )
i have a forum for costs on the DIY forum, and them posts are mine from this year
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Talking about the topic and reducing costs, you know you dont need to spend a lot of money for RO/DI systems either, for most situations just recycle rainwater. That falls on roofs, reduces your carbon footprint and its cheap as well, the customers love it. You dont get much cheaper than FREE :) But I am sure that some manuf. will diasagree
Matt, you have an excellent forum, How many members do you have ?
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Talking about the topic and reducing costs, you know you dont need to spend a lot of money for RO/DI systems either, for most situations just recycle rainwater. That falls on roofs, its cheap as well, you dont get much cheaper than FREE :)
Matt, you have an excellent forum, How many members do you have ?
1080 members and rising
of course if any1 wants a link
<----------------- e.mail me
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on this subject
ive just ordered a unger angle and some GG3, but the GG3 isnt a WFP cost
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this maybe not so much a draw back but a bit of advise . wfp can run your life for a while, trying to get it right spending hours playing with it working all the hours to be sure of the extra money as you may have spent abit and want to replace it. the first 9 mths for me has been a one big learning curve but i recon i am there for now , custies not asking questions no more. learnt were to place hose ect, which windows need trad work, working out the best posiable days work. knocking work on the head as there not worth doing. spending hours and hours on forums seeking good info its to easy to forget there are others around you and chucking extra cash around wears off after a while.
remember this what the point in having a successful business when theres noone around to enjoy it with .. you married your wife not the business :'(
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There's been some good points made and i would like to echo those that say learning to clean traditionally is the way to start.
It's very hard work and a shock to the system for most entering wc, but until you learn how to deal with and overcome problems using trad methods you aren't really going to be equipped to offer an all round service.
Also, the posts concerning diy are valid.
They have set the benchmark for manufacturers to follow and because of diy'ers the costs have come down enormously which has benefited those that choose to buy a system off suppliers.
When you look at the replies to those posts asking wfp questions the majority of answers come from the diy'ers and we have those to thank for most of our knowledge gained on the forums.
There are some superb suppliers as well (we all know who they are), who have raised their game to accomodate the majority of us who want to buy parts and not just systems.
This wasn't the case as much when i 1st joined the forums. I never agreed with it but was amused to see matt getting slagged off for offering free advice by the people who had spent loads on systems.
It doesn't happen now, i'm glad to say. Matt and others defended their corners, refused to get bullied off the forums and they have been vindicated by how things have progressed.
I got sidetracked there. ;D
The biggest drawback to wfp for the time being is the customer who doesn't like change and will criticise your work as a reason to dump you instead of telling you they don't like wet windows and sills.
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There are some superb suppliers as well (we all know who they are), who have raised their game to accomodate the majority of us who want to buy parts and not just systems.
This wasn't the case as much when i 1st joined the forums. I never agreed with it but was amused to see matt getting slagged off for offering free advice by the people who had spent loads on systems.
It doesn't happen now, i'm glad to say. Matt and others defended their corners, refused to get bullied off the forums and they have been vindicated by how things have progressed.
:-[ :-[ i only stayed because of the stuff people said, most of them didnt like the thought of WFP getting into the hands of the humble window cleaner who didnt have / want to spend silly money on a system ;)
some1 once said " a working class hero is something to be "
it was john lennon and more recently james dean bradfield who aid it, incase any1 is interested
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I still stand by my statement, as it is correct, but, i didn't mean diy' ing a system, but diy'ing the components of the system. If you run a diy website or are an inventor then tuff, like i say, buy correct from the start ( and again, incase you missed it) this doesn't mean expensive & you will soon realize the difference between an inventors/diy obsessive's ego & the real deal. No bu****t, no ego trip, just good advice, the CORRECT choice & you're away. now, that clears that up. ;)
Diy your system, yes, Diy the components of the system, NO. Total false economy, just read this forum to prove my point! :-*
tony
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The biggest drawback amongst many (about 1/4 of my work is poleable) is the hose. Having to drag 80M of hose over a garage roof to do 7 house backs not accessable any other way then having it wrap round bikes, pushchairs, patio sets, swings, barbeques, solar lights on sticks, patio heaters, steps, brick ends, in fact almost everthing. If only I could get the water to the brush without the pole. BUT on the fronts of the same houses what a time saving wonder.
Regards Mal
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The biggest drawback amongst many (about 1/4 of my work is poleable) is the hose. Having to drag 80M of hose over a garage roof to do 7 house backs not accessable any other way then having it wrap round bikes, pushchairs, patio sets, swings, barbeques, solar lights on sticks, patio heaters, steps, brick ends, in fact almost everthing. If only I could get the water to the brush without the pole. BUT on the fronts of the same houses what a time saving wonder.
Regards Mal
This is why you still need to carry ladders, don't walk a mile to reach 3 feet. ;)
tony
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I still say the costs are high. If you follow Tonys advice and buy a carbon facelift your gonna shell out a grand just for a pole for *hrist sake! The diy route doesn't have to be false economy either. By using cheap fishing poles and light brushes has given me a selection of poles for different jobs that I like to use for much much less than a carbon facelift. No what I'm saying is that when going through my expenses there always seems to be parts constantly wearing out and being replaced. Pole hose, clips, olives, brushes, filters, resin, connectors, hosereels, microbore, snap connectors battery, battery charger, prefilters, membranes all not counting your initial start up costs.
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The biggest drawback amongst many (about 1/4 of my work is poleable) is the hose. Having to drag 80M of hose over a garage roof to do 7 house backs not accessable any other way then having it wrap round bikes, pushchairs, patio sets, swings, barbeques, solar lights on sticks, patio heaters, steps, brick ends, in fact almost everthing. If only I could get the water to the brush without the pole. BUT on the fronts of the same houses what a time saving wonder.
Regards Mal
I only have a couple of jobs left where I go over the top and down the other side. Horror of horros - I work from a ladder at the back of those ones. They're not really worth keeping so I will either have to up the price or lose them.
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I still say the costs are high. If you follow Tonys advice and buy a carbon facelift your gonna shell out a grand just for a pole for *hrist sake! The diy route dosen't have to be false economy either. By using cheap fishing poles and light brushes has given me a selection of poles for different jobs that I like to use for much much less than a carbon facelift. No what I'm saying is that when going through my expenses there always seems to be parts constantly wearing out and being replaced. Pole hose, clips, olives, brushes, filters, resin, connectors, hosereels, microbore, snap connectors battery, battery charger, prefilters, membranes all not counting your initial start up costs.
Well dave, i have to say, it's no good knocking if there's no one home, my system is over 3 years old & has never had a penny spent on it, or any part replaced, or has ever let me down,(poles & brushes aside), it wasn't expensive either, i'm afraid you are one of the many sheep on the forum, & to your cost i'm afraid to say matey. however, live & learn ;)
But please keep following the (experienced ???) as it does give me great reading. ;)
tony
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Whose sytem did you buy Tony ?
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Yes Tony, but if I had gone down your route I would be posting about the extortionate start up costs of wfp wouldn't I ? So you manage to run a system that never needs any parts whatsoever? If you have then please give me some tips on how you obtain an everlasting system. After all, the only diy parts I have are my poles everything else comes from reputable suppliers.
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Whose sytem did you buy Tony ?
I got most of my system parts from cleantech over 3 years ago. I put it all together myself. a pump box with a 60psi pump in it that has only ever been opened once out of curiosity that just simply plugs into cig' lighter & just works day after day the same as it did when it was brand new.
tony
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Cheers, so does it have a bypass or do you use a variflow ?
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Yes Tony, but if I had gone down your route I would be posting about the extortionate start up costs of wfp wouldn't I ? So you manage to run a system that never needs any parts whatsoever? If you have then please give me some tips on how you obtain an everlasting system. After all, the only diy parts I have are my poles everything else comes from reputable suppliers.
No you wouldn't dave ??? you would have been posting about the best 800 quid you ever spent! after that, if you had taken my advice from the start, you wouldn't be on 833 posts! ;D but be quids in & loving an un-complicated working life.
tony
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Whose sytem did you buy Tony ?
I got most of my system parts from cleantech over 3 years ago. I put it all together myself. a pump box with a 60psi pump in it that has only ever been opened once out of curiosity that just simply plugs into cig' lighter & just works day after day the same as it did when it was brand new.
tony
Errr you must be a sheep like me then!
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Cheers, so does it have a bypass or do you use a variflow ?
Neither, it just has a flow control lever on it, it does have a strainer on it though, as i found out the once that i opened the box.
tony
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Maybe what I call a by pass is what you call a flow control lever. So the box matches the flow to the hose dia. and length supplied by Cleantech. I pressume you use a 6mm microbore ? and what size and how many jets ? Thanks for your patience !
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Whose sytem did you buy Tony ?
I got most of my system parts from cleantech over 3 years ago. I put it all together myself. a pump box with a 60psi pump in it that has only ever been opened once out of curiosity that just simply plugs into cig' lighter & just works day after day the same as it did when it was brand new.
tony
Errr you must be a sheep like me then!
So where do all your running costs come from, & your start up costs?
My system performs all day, every day, perfectly, with NO ping about, that's how you make money in this trade dave. not at home in your shed repairing fishing poles etc.
Be wise my friend & filter the good from the crap :D
tony
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Tony I know you have something against fishing poles and secretly desire to be a facelift rep but the original post I made was quite simple and had nothing to do with fishing poles, so why wade in and become all hostile claiming that because you are so experienced that you never need to service or spend on your system? If you are that wonderful why do you need to come on this forum? I come here to learn and don't expect to be bombarded with acid remarks from the likes of you.
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Maybe what I call a by pass is what you call a flow control lever. So the box matches the flow to the hose dia. and length supplied by Cleantech. I pressume you use a 6mm microbore ? and what size and how mant jets ? Thanks for your patience !
Cleantech had no idea what dia hose i was going to use as i got the hose from argos at the time (cheaper & better than cleantech offered). I have used both 50mtr & 100 mtr 1/2 inch hose with this pump box & just adjust the lever for the situation. but i have to say the pump is never used on full, i use 2mm pencil jets but used to use fan jets ( untill i saw the light), oh , & i do have a brush with 3mm jets. but like i say, no-matter what the situation, brush, jets, whatever, all i need to do is occasionaly adjust this lever. thats it, no silly/un-reliable varistream rubbish, or any problems with flow/pressure, just switch on & away, every time, what could be simpler?
tony
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I still stand by my statement, as it is correct, but, i didn't mean diy' ing a system, but diy'ing the components of the system. If you run a diy website or are an inventor then tuff, like i say, buy correct from the start ( and again, incase you missed it) this doesn't mean expensive & you will soon realize the difference between an inventors/diy obsessive's ego & the real deal. No bu****t, no ego trip, just good advice, the CORRECT choice & you're away. now, that clears that up. ;)
Diy your system, yes, Diy the components of the system, NO. Total false economy, just read this forum to prove my point! :-*
tony
i can see where your coming from, BUT if it wasnt for the DIY'er going lighter then some of the manufaters wouldnt be stocking affordable lightweight poles, so you cannot knock people who make poles out of anything, they are doing half of the R&D for makers
i trust the ego bit isnt a dig at me, as you are way wrong if you think i am here for a ego trip
the DIY site lists tried and tested items, all standard stuff, from the pump box, unger / cleantech pole ( sure its heavy, but it will outlast any other pole, if you decide to go lighter, then its handy for a backup pole ) vikan brush etc etc etc
ive got a fishing pole and a another pole that i am still yet to play with and get on the go, thats just becuase im a poor time manager, i spend time doing things more important to me
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Tony I know you have something against fishing poles and secretly desire to be a facelift rep but the original post I made was quite simple and had nothing to do with fishing poles, so why wade in and become all hostile claiming that because you are so experienced that you never need to service or spend on your system? If you are that wonderful why do you need to come on this forum? I come hear to learn and don't expect to be bombarded with acid remarks from the likes of you.
If that's the case then dave, why the hell don't you listen ???
How long will it take before you see the light & arn't blighted by how many posts a person has (no link to wiseness by the way), or how popular they are on the forum. If you had taken my advise from the start then you wouldn't be posting so often.
My need for the forum is to help people like yourself & hope to get through to them. ;)
tony
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Cheers, so does it have a bypass or do you use a variflow ?
Neither, it just has a flow control lever on it, it does have a strainer on it though, as i found out the once that i opened the box.
tony
tony, that'll be the by-pass system, your flow valve will control the flow returning back before the pump, same pump box that i have
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I think, 8 years ago Peter Fowill had a box- I helped him with it. he supplied it to Cleantech originally then they decided to make their own ?
I was just trying to get at the info that the control box is just a very simple Variflow/bypass/control lever.
Thanks for the patience again.
The pump manuf. now have built in by passes. So the box may not be required as you control the flow from a tap anywhere in the system.
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Cheers, so does it have a bypass or do you use a variflow ?
Neither, it just has a flow control lever on it, it does have a strainer on it though, as i found out the once that i opened the box.
tony
tony, that'll be the by-pass system, your flow valve will control the flow returning back before the pump, same pump box that i have
You may be right matt, all i know is that i have a hose in & a hose out & that it has never failed to work in over 3 years. it performs every day, it's just a plastic box that i can easily take out in winter so it doesn't freeze up too. best 200 quid i ever spent! plug into cig lighter & away, no split charge crap, no second battery, no wires all over the place etc, no worries :D
tony
tony
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Tony I'm listening but really can't see where your coming from. So what was the wonderfull advice you gave me and what does it matter how many posts you have? Means nothing to me. Chill out.
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Cheers, so does it have a bypass or do you use a variflow ?
Neither, it just has a flow control lever on it, it does have a strainer on it though, as i found out the once that i opened the box.
tony
tony, that'll be the by-pass system, your flow valve will control the flow returning back before the pump, same pump box that i have
You may be right matt, all i know is that i have a hose in & a hose out & that it has never failed to work in over 3 years. it performs every day, it's just a plastic box that i can easily take out in winter so it doesn't freeze up too. best 200 quid i ever spent! plug into cig lighter & away, no split charge crap, no second battery, no wires all over the place etc, no worries :D
tony
tony
the the thing about them, and why the people who say " i have a Pro system and i have a fallback if anything goes wrong, thats why i pdid good money for it " are falling for a sales pitch, the cleantech pump box / board uses parts that if they break can be changed for little money
ive only opened my pump box to check the connections and see how it was built to build others
i have a spare pump box in the car, the reason is, 1 or 2 days lost money for me ( working 3 days a week ) is something i can do without, thus if anything happens i can just change the pump box over and work on ( i dont even need to open it up to see if its something silly )
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I think, 8 years ago Peter Fowill had a box- I helped him with it. he supplied it to Cleantech originally then they decided to make their own ?
I was just trying to get at the info that the control box is just a very simple Variflow/bypass/control lever.
Thanks for the patience again.
The pump manuf. now have built in by passes. So the box may not be required as you control the flow from a tap anywhere in the system.
When opened up it's very simple inside, none of the modern water saving/complicated/more expensive/more troublesome crap inside that EVERY serious wfp'er needs these days.
tony
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The pump manuf. now have built in by passes. So the box may not be required as you control the flow from a tap anywhere in the system.
i didnt know that jeff, so we dont need a by-pass now in the pump box, we can control the flow using a tap ?? ? ??
i guess they dont have pressure switches anymore, as wouldnt this burn it out ?? ? ??
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To cut to the point & save endless dabate-
over 3 years ago i spent 200 quid on a pump box that i may have been able to build for less money.
This pump has never let me down, stopped working, given me one iota's woth of worry or even flinched in this time. it just plugs into the cig lighter, i can take it out of the van in winter in 5 seconds & put it back in the morning in another 5 seconds.
It's still going strong, still working as it did the first day i got it & probably will for some time to come.
I am no scientist, no inventor, no diy maniac, no ego trip nutter, just normal with enough common sense not to over-complicate things & listen to the right advise & not be taken in with any of the above.
Sort the good from the bad & get on with it ;)
It's all so very simple, realy, it is.
tony
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The main drawback with WFP will always be water. It is so easy to come home with a few dirty scrims, and bits of towelling sill wipes, and chuck them into the machine.
The best thing about DIY WFP is that when it goes wrong, you know how to fix it.
Tesco brushes? I love them, do a brilliant job and are very light. Still have the Vykan brushes I started with, but they're gathering dust in the garage.
Some of us are inventive by nature. In consequence of this, we do spend a lot of time pottering in the shed. I made a brilliant swivel out of a Stanley paint pad holder the other week, it even lets you adjust the swivel action. Brilliant, but you couldn't buy one.
If starting off with WFP, I would recommend you start with a back pack. No matter how sophisticated a system you finally end up with, a backpack will always earn it's keep.
There are many drawbacks with WFP, but most of them can be overcome with good organisation. Still have to carry all that water though. Dai
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At the show guy from Flojet told me that the trade used their Duplex II demmand pump with built in pressure/demand switch but they had now brought out (Sureflo as well ) a two piston By-pass pump with unique internal bypass function. It doesnt need the pressure switch as the by pass is internal, so maybe we no longer need the control box ?
just the brush on a stick, a pump and water.
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And logically taking it further- no need for a variflow ?
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At the show guy from Flojet told me that the trade used their Dulex II demmand pump with built in pressure/demand switch but they had now brought out (Sureflo as well ) a two piston By-pass pump with unique internal bypass function. It doesnt need the pressure switch as the by pass is internal, so maybe we no longer need the control box ?
just the brush on a stick, a pump and water.
Jeff
200 quid in over 3 years for something that has earned me over 80 grand!! are you missing my point a little? :-\
I dont give a sjit about guys at shows etc. give me a reliable living ;D ;D ;D
tony
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The pump manuf. now have built in by passes. So the box may not be required as you control the flow from a tap anywhere in the system.
i didnt know that jeff, so we dont need a by-pass now in the pump box, we can control the flow using a tap ?? ? ??
i guess they dont have pressure switches anymore, as wouldnt this burn it out ?? ? ??
At the show guy from Flojet told me that the trade used their Dulex II demmand pump with built in pressure/demand switch but they had now brought out (Sureflo as well ) a two piston By-pass pump with unique internal bypass function. It doesnt need the pressure switch as the by pass is internal, so maybe we no longer need the control box ?
just the brush on a stick, a pump and water.
Jeff
200 quid in over 3 years for something that has earned me over 80 grand!! are you missing my point a little? :-\
I dont give a sjit about guys at shows etc. give me a reliable living ;D ;D ;D
tony
tony
i think that reply was meant for me, as i asked about the pump pressure switch
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Tony,
I am lstening, thats why I am also asking as many questions as Luke :)
But maybe the next/tomorrows systems wont need the £200 box ?
ps - I made mine from a couple of t junctions for £5 but not for everyone.
I am sure your steaming by now (been there done it) , we all know the best for us, but trying to get the info to others can be impossible, you can take a horse to water etc :)
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Who ever it was meant for matt, the point is still the same, come on man, look at the stats, have i been ripped off with my pump box? ;D
come on, you know the truth, just tell it ;D
tony
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Heres what Tony is on about, also got a review by Mathew http://www.cleantech.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_26&products_id=100
and the other box is in the pic here http://www.window-tools.com/moreinfo.htm
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Tony,
I am lstening, thats why I am also asking as many questions as Luke :)
But maybe the next/tomorrows systems wont need the £200 box ?
ps - I made mine from a couple of t junctions for £5 but not for everyone.
I am sure your steaming by now (been there done it) , we all know the best for us, but trying to get the info to others can be impossible, you can take a horse to water etc :)
you're right jeff, good debate, i'm not daft, we all have differenses, i just hate the thought of people making the wrong decision etc. it's sometimes hard to make clear things in text on a forum, i always respect peoples input wether i agree with it or not ( though it may not appear that way ;D)
Some things are more passionate to me than others because i was given bad advise when i first went wfp & it cost me big time in time wasted etc.
Just a thought, i think you calmed me down the last time i was having a rant, are you also some kind of scycologist ;D
tony
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Who ever it was meant for matt, the point is still the same, come on man, look at the stats, have i been ripped off with my pump box? ;D
come on, you know the truth, just tell it ;D
tony
tony, the box is great, thats why i have recommended it to ALOT of people , that was before they added the varristream and its the same price )
even for a van mount, you need a tank in the van and that pump box, job done
its a great bit of kit
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No they used to call me psychodelic in the steel works hmm- wonder why.
Help must have altzimers how do you spell psyco ?
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First correct spelling gets a pint ;)
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Steel works :o
That's my origins :D
tony
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Mine got asset stripped and got sold to Taiwan, was in the rolling mill at Brymbo.
Sorry to go off topic.
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Jeff I owe you an apology........I'm sorry I listened to you in the past and took your advice and I now realise I shouldn't have - sorry. :-[
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Whoops, Oh well I dont always get it right
What did I get wrong ?
Found it so I owe me a pint "psychedelic" but I cheated.
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Nothing in my eyes 'bin using the Reload for ages now and love it - best advice I took so far.
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Try the Diy site "World pole" next then for 21ft telescopic 4fter
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Can`t get on the site,it won`t let you.
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see Matt ?
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spots is the answer,the most com ::) hear it all the time :-\ loads of water flying around,you love it wfp or ??? not as skill full as trad any one can brush a window ???
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Every thing takes skill but you take yours to an art form. Hows the record attempt praccy going ?
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In my opinion Jeff and Terry are very similar, both have their trades down to an art form. Terry in the way he is so fast, Jeff in his building of equipment and so little use of water ( less than some trad guys )!!!Luke
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Nope I wear a back belt he wears a Black belt :)
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Terry, you are probably a sort of ambassador for trad so what do you think of this?!!!!!
(http://lh3.google.co.uk/rupertthehair/Rp0m3ojnlWI/AAAAAAAAANw/gMGQ83theAA/image0.jpg?imgmax=512)
this picture is probably older than you ( sorry if I'm wrong! ), so this topic is irelevant really because its good points outweigh its drawbacks, otherwise wfp would have just dissapeared like every other stupid invention. But trad will never die, especially the way you do it! Luke
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I like this thread and agree with everything tony has said.
My van system use's no varistream, no by-pass just a flow control valve and is great.
I turn the flow off and the pump goes off turn the flow on and it come's straight on.
I use minibore with 60psi flojet pumps and just the the flow control valve to turn the water on and off.
My pump switch is turned on when i start in the the morning and turned off when i finish for the day.
I have used varistream and bypass i have a bypass on my omnitrolly but still prefer no hassle keep it simple flow control valve.
Paul
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Can`t get on the site,it won`t let you.
what was the userame you used
any1 else having problems, you will be able to access the " forum activation page" post your username and i will activate your account