Clean It Up

UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mark Lane-Matthews on August 03, 2007, 12:37:12 am

Title: Nemisis
Post by: Mark Lane-Matthews on August 03, 2007, 12:37:12 am
I wonder if there are any plans for Nemisis to enter the Woolsafe program?
                                               Mark
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Art on August 03, 2007, 12:44:02 am
I thought like Mpower it was safe to use on wool?
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Jason Hedges on August 03, 2007, 01:29:17 am
Hi,

On the product details doesn't mention woolsafe or safe to use on wool so guess not!

http://www.novocastrian.net/products/nemesis.html

Call John Kelly on 0191 2169291 at restormate, I'm sure he'll be more than happy to answer any questions you may have!

All the best,
Jason.
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: John Kelly on August 03, 2007, 08:03:33 am
Unfortunately being a "very" small supplier, paying for a product to be Woolsafe approved, which at the end of the day is a marketing programme, would not be cost effective.
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Joe H on August 03, 2007, 08:21:48 am
but is it woolsafe ?????
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Mark Lane-Matthews on August 03, 2007, 08:36:29 am
Hi John
What about the manufacturers ?we all believe that active colloids are safe on wool but to be part of the woolsafe program would be a great step forward IMO, and also be a great stamp of approval for the product .
                                          Mark
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: matt jones on August 03, 2007, 09:34:54 am
I would hope it is safe to use on wool as i have. Plus these types of cleaning products excel on wool carpets but arent to great on synthetics.
matt
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: gwrightson on August 03, 2007, 04:24:51 pm
I use it on wool and great results,
just because it doesnt say woolsafe , doesnt mean to say it isnt.

Geoff
Title: Re: Nemesis
Post by: John Kelly on August 03, 2007, 04:50:50 pm
Nemesis is safe to use on any material that can be cleaned with water. The concentrate is near neutral ph and is neutral when diluted.
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Mark Lane-Matthews on August 03, 2007, 07:04:00 pm
The problem i have is i like using the colloids which really excell on wool products,but i am a woolsafe operator ,so using products which do not have Woolsafe stamp of approval means i would lose my membership which i do gt a fair amount of work from, including a carpet retailer i do work for.

                                                         Mark
                                                         
                                                                     
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: carpetguy on August 03, 2007, 07:18:46 pm
MARK

are you saying that an organisation is allowed to dictate which products you will / won't use. All of the carpets etc, you come across are not going to be wool, in fact, I'd have thought the majority would be synthetic and not, there fore subject to the woolsafe embargo,
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Mike Osbourne on August 03, 2007, 07:32:59 pm
I'd say 80% of the carpets I do have wool content and I say I use wool safe products and procedures when talking to Clients.

I have used prespray gold fineline Ms but also Craftex MS and recently Nemesis. When I say wool safe I'm not refering 'Woolsafe' the organisation.

Does anyone think this is misleading? I believe it to be correct, I suspect the woolsafe organisation might see different.

 
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Mark Roberts on August 03, 2007, 08:08:02 pm
Mark, are you sure you would lose your membership? I thought you just had to attend the course and pass.

http://www.woolsafe.org/cleanertrainingtext.htm

I cant see the point of even attending the course if you can only use products they endorse, you may as well just stay home and sign a form saying you use woolsafe endorsed products, if that's the rules to being a member...

Mark
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Mark Lane-Matthews on August 03, 2007, 09:02:02 pm
Yes i have had 2 letters from the Woolsafe Org  regarding using woolsafe products as solutions uk in which i use a lot of their chemicals, are not renewing their woolsafe membership on chemicals , this only comes into play when cleaning wool. When i joined Woolsafe, the chemicals i was using was not an issue as they were all approved by Woolsafe,and M power and Nemisis were not on the market.I do not blame the Woolsafe org. for enforcing their regulations as they are protecting their good name,there is more to being a woolsafe product in their defence  than a neutral PH,which can be buffered as other things can break down the fibres.For me ending my Woolsafe membership would proberbly cost me work for a carpet retailer who also advertises my company for free in their shops,also there  is litrature, business cards,websites,signwriting would all have to be changed .Then there is the small matter of having a insurance claim against you on say a rug bleed,If you have not used a woolsafe product when cleaning, your insurance company might not cover you.

                                                          Mark
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: John Kelly on August 04, 2007, 09:09:42 am
Mark, I fully understand your problem, I was a Woolsafe member for many years. The problem is it is a small market and the cost of having your products approved is very high. This would mean increasing the price for everyone, Woolsafe member or not. The vast majority of our customers are not Woolsafe operators and it would be unfair to burdon them with the additional costs.
How many times have you seen posts on forums asking advice on cleaning pub carpets, wool Axminsters. I don't think I have ever seen anyone advise using a Woolsafe product. Unfortunately this is the situation in the industry and it is unlikely to change to any degree.
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Ian Gourlay on August 04, 2007, 11:32:02 am
It could be  Solutions found the same problem as John,

The only Solution is to use products from companies that are Woolsafe aproved and have been tested if Woosafe is important to your company.

Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Len Gribble on August 04, 2007, 12:26:49 pm
Mark

Solutions UK not renewing? Not 100% if they were there in the fist place. Don’t they get the products from Germany cant see them listed ether?

But here’s a list to keep you on the strait and narrow   ;)

http://www.woolsafe.org/cleanprodsuppsuppliers.htm

I do work for 5 retailers and 2 pub groups not one has asked me for my credentials, neither has my insurance company but as you say they will try to get out of it, that’s the name of the game with them.

Len
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Mark Lane-Matthews on August 04, 2007, 01:47:01 pm
Len
Solutions had a microsplitting range which was woolsafe plus a Woolsafe Allerg-stop range which was paid for by the supplier not the manufacturer.I promote detergent free cleaning ,but the Woolsafe range for these chemicals is very limited in which i have a list of.As John has said it is too costly for some suppliers  to take up the Woolsafe option ,but it has now left me with a dilemma.
                                                                Mark
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Len Gribble on August 04, 2007, 07:55:42 pm
Mark

Granted WS site has been up-dated July 2007 saying that, I have never ever seen Solutions UK listed under (SUPPLIERS OF APPROVED PROFESSIONAL CARPET CARE PRODUCTS) I find that a bit funny don’t you? No wonder they are not renewing their subscription. ::)

Did they pick you out of random 2 letters? I got 3 from CD totally ignored them. >:( :( ;D

What dilemma? You’re a carpet clean not a purist. :-*

Len
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: carpetguy on August 04, 2007, 11:12:58 pm
Well said Len

Why be someone elses slave ! Do you depend on wool carpets for a living.........I really doubt it !
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Mark Lane-Matthews on August 05, 2007, 01:39:20 am
No they were not random letters ,and it has nothing to do with being a slave,just choices.Len don,'t tell me what i am or am not ,if i do not not want to clean with detergents that is my privalidge.My dilemma was pointed out  in a previous post ,and  has absolutley  nothing to do with being a purist.
              Thank you John Kelly for your answer ,which was the reason for starting the topic.
                                                                              Mark







Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Ian Puckett on August 05, 2007, 12:02:32 pm
len i got a letter fron WS a couple of weeks ago tellin me that solutoins were no longer on the list so you did not look very well
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Len Gribble on August 05, 2007, 05:41:22 pm
Mark

Don’t get your balls in a twist Generic term and John captured the moment pubs bit like most houses now you are in a 22 position! now that sad no income! But you did come across as one!

Ian

Don’t think I missed anything on their web site since 03 how ever not privy to there listing thought it would be on their site

Lets have a look at this letter, and then I will eat humble pie, am sure WS
Won’t object to this posting as in their interest!

Len
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Ian Puckett on August 05, 2007, 06:24:31 pm
len you can see the page like it was at http://web.archive.org/web/20050921114300/www.woolsafe.org/cleanprodsupp.htm

its under thw makers name
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: carpetguy on August 05, 2007, 09:13:02 pm
Mark

Nobody on here is attempting to " tell you what to use " but you are choosing to have an organisation tell you, by inferring you will lose membership, to their club !

I'm sure there are a few on here, like myself, with 20, or more years, in the business working without feeling the need to belong to w/s

I have cleaned hundreds of wool carpets over the years and have used products which were " woolsafe " acreditted ".........when doing so, clients were informed, if they were interested, which was rare.

There are products which were approved, having paid very large sums for the privelege, but found the ongoing registration fees to be "uneconomic" and did not continue.........................now, if a product was , tested and approved and is unchanged, it is clearly,  "  still safe to be used on wool  "
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: CARPET KNIGHTS on August 05, 2007, 09:21:36 pm
This is my take on this....

I have heard of a few companies pulling out of woolsafe ie no longer registering thier products. I think that by woolsafe telling it's woolsafe technicians that they have to use woolsafe products they are hoping that the said companies will loose so much custom that they will see the need to re register thier product.

Cheers Goron
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on August 05, 2007, 09:25:20 pm
Could be that Nick is selling less MS and more mpower so that would another product to test and pay for aswell as annual registeration, and just perhaps when a chemical company drops its subscription WS have to tell you of this so you can't go using the product and say it is wool safe APPROVED.

So the WS Association has a sting in its tale for those chemical companies that are thinking of opting out!

Shaun
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on August 05, 2007, 09:26:09 pm
Goron I think you beat me to it.

Shaun
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: CARPET KNIGHTS on August 05, 2007, 09:31:12 pm
Glad i'm not the only one!

The carpet cleaners conspiracy theory :o

Cheers Goron
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Shaun_Ashmore on August 05, 2007, 09:34:14 pm
To be honest Goron there is more and more of this going on this opens a can of worms.

Shaun
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Mike Roper on August 05, 2007, 10:26:58 pm
I think woolsafe operators will still use the logos if they think its benefiting their business and pay their subs BUT will use their own common sense , discretion and experience in choosing which product they will use for each job whether the product is woolsafe approved or not.
Mike
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Mark Lane-Matthews on August 06, 2007, 03:18:30 am
For me it is not just a decision of just pulling out of Woolsafe ,as i have already said i do have a connection with a carpet retailing franchise which is because i belong to Woolsafe,i have their logo on all my advertising ,van signwritten,litrature,websites,business cards etc and i would say about 75% of carpets i clean are wool  excluding rugs,this will all have to be changed costing me time and money.I will not be dictated too by the way i run my business or the products i use,but woolsafes membership is only £100 per year and it pays for its self many times over.If Nemisis or an collodial cleaner was a registered Woolsafe product i would use that .Woolsafe are only protecting there interests so i have no anamosity towards them ,there are Woolsafe microsplitters which still give very good results on the market ,which i may start using for a limited period before deciding what i will do as the renew date for my membership is on sept 1. ???

                                                                      Mark

                                                                         
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: carpetguy on August 06, 2007, 09:11:45 am
Mark

If someone went along to the carpet retailer you mention and told them, that they had a range of " woolsafe " registered products, which they used on wool carpets, were able to show themselves to be experienced and knowledgable, were insured and had a professional manner / presentation, the retailer and any other prospect would have no reason, not to use them.

Anyone can buy and use w/s products and make it known that they are doing so and by so doing, get the work.................

I have been doing it for years, but, there are fewer wool carpets around each year.
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Len Gribble on August 07, 2007, 09:13:28 am
Ian

Thanks

I don’t think I will be eating humble pie after all! ;D

Len
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Ian Gourlay on August 07, 2007, 09:34:44 am
What the Woolsafe Org could do is test products that are said to be safe on wool but not aproved by woolsafe and prove they are not


If not its just your are Woolsafe by how bigger cheque book you have

I have always been under the impression that if you use Woolsafe Logo you should use Woolsafe products its the complete consept you are buyin into to give yourself a trading USP 
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: Ian Puckett on August 07, 2007, 09:42:21 am
len never thort you would anyway weve seen yor atitude
Title: Re: Nemisis
Post by: carpetguy on August 07, 2007, 05:08:46 pm
Ian

I got a letter many years ago, following a complaint by a local c/c. The letter made it clear that unless I was registered with w/s I had no legal right to use the w/s logo in my advertising.

When I contacted them and told them I was using products which were on their list, they said I could state that I used w/s products, but must not advertise myself, or my company as w/s unless I was on their register ( in other words had paid them a fee )

It's against my nature, to pay someone a fee, in order to use their name.

It's my opinion, that I should get paid a commission for endorsing a product  ;D ;D ;D ;D