Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: stevegunn on October 10, 2004, 06:06:29 pm
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Speaking to alot of people at carpex they still don't seem to be using the micro splitters correctly i was always led to believe agitation was the key and heat was not a factor but was given conflicting views at the show could one of the microsplitting experts clarify the correct method. ???
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I'm not an expert but I do find that with agitation the results are always very good. I usually mix with hot water but this can become cold in the sprayer befote it is all used. I always rinse with hot water.
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Only just started using them.Getting great results espesially with wool
I find that adjitation is the key howevr I have not found any difference with water temp'
Paul(http://)http:// :-*
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It is evident that many operators trying micro splitters are struggling to get good results, possibly due to incorrect aplication, myself included. I seem to get either exeptionally good results or exceptionally bad ones. Why???
Nick if you read this, wouldnt it be a good idea, to run a short seminar on the subject Im sure there would be a lot of interest, for a reasonable fee, of course. How about it?
Dave.
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Nick
Or even give a short explanation why it works better on some fibres rather than others.
Also why is so much aggitation needed.
Paul
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Good idea Dave
Just as a taster i used under 1ltr dilluted microspiltter on a clean of 90 sm. total cost about £3 and 50ps worth of lemon refresh in the tank
so £3.50p in total
Nice Job ;)
Ps this was a house not a commercial
Its taken a while but i think ive mastered these microsplitting things ;D
Regards Nick Holman
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Steve
As with all cleaning agents when you change over you are on a learning curve, but I agree one needs to know what works for you.
What works for me is agitation with HWE (by the time it applied it cold so what the point in adding hot water but saying that what I use in my pond needs a wake up call then it’s on the label)
I will be changing my spray nozzle = save money, cant believe I was told this = me not buying there agent more often = them losing money. But this has to be tested by me.
Paul and Dave bit lost with your threads was Solutions the only Micro Splitting agent there? ??? ??? ???
Dave what operators what MS are they using? ??? ???
Len
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Changing spraytip now THERES a big clue ;D
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The point i was trying to make is how many people are using the microsplitters incorrectly.Speaking to one person who bought some and put it in his machine and said they were a waste of money ???Myself i get great results using micro-splitters.Correct dilution and agitation in my opinion is the key I'm sure Steve Carpenter or Nick could shed some light on this.
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Since Nick and Steve are currently recovering from the show:
Micro-splitters are designed to work cold, but their action is enhanced by heat.
In practicality, as Fintan pointed out, a couple of litres in a sprayer soon cool off, and because they are mist-sprayed, even a hot solution will cool rapidly from jet to carpet. Consequently the contribution of heat is in most cases inconsequential.
The reason that agitation is especially important is that the amount of product applied is very small. Micro-splitters work on contact but need to directly come into contact with all of the soil - this is where the homogenisation effect of the agitation comes into play - it ensures even distribution.
The micro-splitting effect is not directly effected by type of fibre involved, but the micro-occlusion that can lead to traffic lane grey can occur regardless of the cleaning agent employed. I do believe though that this is less likely to occur with micro-splitters because of the reduction of adhesive forces inherent in the way that they operate.
The application of heat at the rinsing stage should have no effect on the removal if micro-split soil, but still has the other benefits associated with its' use with conventional detergent/emulsifier-based products.
When used on oily soils, I find that a very light pre-treatment of a citrus-base product such as Chemspec Heavy Duty Soil Lifter, prior to the micro-splitter is beneficial - the one agitation being sufficient for both.
Probably the biggest reason (other than agitation) some are having disappointing results is the over application of the product. The aim should be to apply sufficient to achieve the splitting action without excessively wetting and thereby giving the 'split' soil excessive mobility. The treated fibres should be no more than just damp.
I do know that Nick is planning seminars and that Steve Carpenter has one in the next few weeks.
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Steve, You say this fella put micro splitters IN his machine and got poor results?? Did he not apply the micro splitter as a pre spray??
Personally i 99% of the time get superb results, the duo has really made my life easier emphasising the importance of agitation perhaps.
Paul
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Steve, You say this fella put micro splitters IN his machine and got poor results?? Did he not apply the micro splitter as a pre spray??
Personally i 99% of the time get superb results, the duo has really made my life easier emphasising the importance of agitation perhaps.
Paul
No he put it in his machine and extracted as normal.
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Question
Should not all pre-spray be agitated?
Len
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Answer
Yes
Paul ;D
But seriously i know what your getting at.Any agitation is bound to aid any cleaning process including conventional detergent pre sprays.
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Hi Guys
Thank you John as you correctly answered Micro splitting chemicals are designed to work from cold although used warm the drying times can be increased slightly Micro splitting chemicals are NOt designed for in tank use althought they will work in a mild way and will not produce the high standard of clean attained when pre sprayed and agitated.
Agitation following a light pre spray is the key and it was apparent from some of the comments at carpex some operators are allowing a dwell time, micro splittng works on contact there is no need for any dwell.
Best regards Nick
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hi guys,
onestep is the product i use with a op machine or grease soiled carpets i will use a cfr. spray at 20 to 1 some times up to 40 to 1 and get great results every timeuseing nothing else
steve
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Hi Steve
what happened to the Carpet Monster name
Best regards Nick
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Hi Nick
that was never the company name
steve
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There are a lot of confusing and conflicting postings made about the use of so-called “Microsplitters”. To fully understand the use of these products an operator must take several factors into account. Firstly, as with all chemicals it is imperative to read the label instructions as no two chemicals are the same and this equally applies to “Microsplitters”. Since the inception of One Step Microsplitting technology there has been several copies introduced into the market place under the umbrella of “Microsplitters”. This has therefore created much confusion on how to use a product and to get the best results. In use of such products, the reader must familiarize themselves with the particular brand and apply the correct technique to it. I read such comments as to “mist” the product onto the carpet….. How does one achieve this? Are there any specialist applicators which one must use to achieve this “misting” and indeed, why we need to “mist” the product into the air in the first place?
In order to achieve the best result with “One Step” products, we recommend that you spray the product approximately 10” away from the carpet to ensure even application. The next stage would very much depend upon your individual equipment. Those of you, who own, operate a powerful extraction unit, capable of 400PSI or above, can immediately proceed rinsing the carpet with fresh water. Those with small extractors with lower PSI need to do some agitation in order to work the product into the fibres. This can easily be achieved with the use of a contra rotating brush machine followed by fresh water rinse preferably, with hot water. In diluting One Step product you must take into account the soiling levels and mix product accordingly. I would recommend the following dilution ratios with One Step Carpet & Upholstery cleaner:-
For extraction systems dilute 1:8 to 1:40
For bonnet systems dilute 1:20 to 1:40
For compound cleaning dilute 1:20 to 1:40
For Spot and Stain Removal dilute 1:5
Please be advised that the above only applies to One Step products however, for instructions on use of other products please consult your supplier.
Steve Carpenter
Amtech UK
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Hi Guys
Steve said
"Firstly, as with all chemicals it is imperative to read the label instructions"
Interesting as the German label on "One Step" clearly states Dilution of 1:5-1:16 for all application with the exception of spot removing which state 1:1-1:2
it also state you must use HOT water
There are obviously some Magic Fairies travelling with the chemical from Germany or are One Step making more than one mixture.
A different product for the UK from the rest of Europe.!!
Best regards Nick
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Hi Nick,
The labels on One Steps range have changed to reflect the actual cleaning performance of these unique cleaning solutions. We have been recommending these dilutions for quite a while now thanks to customer feedback.
You yourself recommended several years ago that I should be using One Step at these dilutions. It was the same time that I asked your advice regarding the purchase of the CFR system, and your glowing endorsement of both products led to my decision to purchase CFR and One Step. Obviously your advice with experimenting with the performance of One Step was also taken on board.
I thank you once again!!!
Regards
Steve
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Steve
I have NEVER recommended dilution of 1:40 on ANY microsplitting chemical at any time. As for RECOMMENDING a CFR machine if you remember correctly before you purchased your machine I had already moved on to a heated machines from a different manufacturer, I informed you that the machine was not in my opinion a very good all round machine I have now sold all my CFR machines.
When manufacturing Micro splitting chemicals there is a saturation point using the raw chemical that cannot be increased due to the fact the chemical will become discoloured therefore contaminating the surface being cleaned a higher dilution is possible but with very limited results.
Your own labels clearly state the actual dilution available
Best regards Nick
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Hi Nick,
It was mentioned at a meeting with you, your fellow director Tim (at the time) and Peter Blair of Axiom. I was working for Traemar Ltd at the time and attended with my colleague Tom Butcher. We were discussing the possibility of a joint venture servicing carpet-cleaning contracts across the UK. We had been using One Step for only a short time when we met up with you. We said that we were using in conjunction with truckmounted cleaning equipment at a dilution of 1to 8. You and your colleague Tim gave us some tips on its use and told us, that you were using it from 1 to 16 for carpet extraction cleaning and from 1:16 and up to 1:40 for bonnet cleaning.
I first purchased the CFR tooling to use with a truckmount and then high performance portables. Karl from Amtech UK said that I should also look at the CFR soil extractor. I had a demonstration from him and asked him for three contact numbers, yours being one of them. He mentioned to me that you had 4 or 5 CFR machines.
I certainly remember our conversation and that you also used other extraction equipment (US Products), of which I am very familiar with having owned one. However, you still said to me that the Altra Pro 1000 was an excellent machine and this was the first CFR machine I purchased in November 2002 based mainly on your advice, the others didn’t own the 1000psi model. I had also seen and spoken to you on Amtech UK’s stand at previous NCCA and NEC trade shows and you couldn’t speak highly enough of the CFR system.
With regard to One Step’s dilution ratio’s I said that the labels had been changed to reflect its actual performance. The concentrate hasn’t been changed but product sold at the recent Carpex show had the old labels on them.
Regards
Steve
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Steve
I have NEVER recommended dilution of 1:40 on ANY microsplitting chemical at any time. .
Best regards Nick
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It is sad to detect a note of 'polite animosity' developing between two respected members of our industry.
It is to be hoped that this does not develop into more than their current differences and that future exchanges are in the former tone.
Best wishes to you both.
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John I agree with you totally.
Great forum with loads of advice from very experianced carpet cleaners.
Steve and Nick its quite clear you both have an issue to sort out here.
Although interesting to read.
Would be better taken off line and discussed privately between your selves instead of using the forum to up stage each other.
Paul
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nick ,
dont you like cfr machines?,
i thought you really liked them , or have you just found better alternatives
regards geoff,
p.s. i like the cfr i got from you ,well so far ::)
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Sort it out in the ring ::)
Like a celebraty boxing match all procedes go to charity!!
In the red corner Steve "One Step" Carpenter
In the blue corner Nick "The Solution" VW
id buy a ticket
no cowboy boots Nick ;D
regards
Nick Holman
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I'll take a couple of tickets ;D
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John's Right
You know it makes sense!
Michell
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Look at that, I come back from the pub and I can't even spell my own name right!
I don't think I'm going to be very good at getting old.
Michel
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It takes practice Michel ;)
Derek
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Hi again
On the issue of the impending 'Rumble' I have commented before on the fact that Nick was instrumental in my purchase of the CFR machine. Steve has since taken my knowledge of the product many stages further.
At the same time Nick verbally informed me of the 'correct' way to use One-Step...I shall be eternally grateful to him as I just couldn't get my brain in gear to the fact that so little product is used ...I think many of us have been in that pridicament at some point
Dilution rates ...I tend to use the product at around 1-20 as a general rule and 1-16 on occasions... maybe the products have been reformulated which give a higher dilution rate
Derek
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Hi Guys,
Nick vs Steve,
Is this MACROSPLITTING ?!
Cheers,
Doug