Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: chrismroberts on July 20, 2007, 03:45:10 pm
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Hi everyone :) Not been on here for a while!
Just had my first few days WFP. Been working with a mates system. I'm off for a couple of weeks now and hope to have my own system by the time I come back!
Its been a bit of a mixed bag, I must admit! I was quite nervous about finally unleashing it on my customers. Some windows have come up great, and some have just been awful... so I'm not sure whether that is me, or the frames, or the water. My biggest problem seems to be runs from the top frame.... do many of you guys wash the topmost frame?? If you don't, how do you avoid hitting the frame (especially with the jets when rinsing upstairs windows) and dragging dirt onto the window?
If I've been doing a window separated into 2 - a top light and a main window - I've been washing and rinsing the top window and the frame below it, waiting for it to stop dripping, then washing the window below. The way I see it.... this reduces the chance of dirty water running onto the bottom window. Is that right?
Other problems have been the usual hoses snagging and falling over plant pots etc etc... but nothing that is too serious. I have faith in the system.. I KNOW it works, so it will just take time for me to get used to it I'm sure. Any hints and tips you guys might have for a newbie would be greatly appreciated though :)
Thanks :)
Chris
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hi chris im on the same boat as you mate,just got my stuff today and dont know how to use it yet i was going to include the top frames in my clean but dont know if its correct what did you do about those awful windows,did you do them twice or go up and blade them,hopefully we will get enough tips by the end of the night to make it seem easier,good luck darren
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Hi mate,
It was really tempting to go back and blade 'em! Knew it defeated the object though and didn't want my customers to think the WFP wasn't up to the job, so just redid them until they were OK. I've got a lot of faith in the system cuz I've seen fantastic results... just my technique I don't trust!
I have practiced on my own windows, and after a couple of cleans... they're not looking too bad. I think the trick is making sure any water that DOES run over the frames comes out clean so doesn't dry as a run.
I've been told not to do the top frame 'cuz it takes too long and isn't necessary. But it only seems to take a small touch of the brush to bring EVERYTHING back down onto the window though so it might be better to spend a bit of time next time round doing the top frames. I'm sure someone experienced will point us in the right direction though?
I read your other topic about practising with tap water, I'd give it a miss though and wait until you can use pure. It'd be hard to see if your technique was working and I think it might take a while for it all to wash out of your hoses.
Let me know if you make any discoveries! Its a bit of a learning curve isn't it?! :-\ I'm out collecting tonight so I'll let you know if I get any feedback!
Chris
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On your initial clean you will have probs clean the top of the frame and rinse it, then clean the rest of the window but make sure not to go above the top piece of glass finish the rest of the house then walk back round and check you may get a few dont worry. It wont be like this every visit, try and find a wfp near you who you could go out with and do a days free work for them most of the guys and gals on here are willing to help.
good luck Rachel
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sorry forgot to mention if you do get pulled up on a dirty pane of glass explain because you are cleaning the frames as well you may get a few marks in the first couple of cleans.
Try not to wash the top of the frame every visit it wont need cleaning and try and keep away from night vents over windows if you fill them with water they will bleed for ages
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I clean the windows and all the frames every time and never get a problem.
Paul
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I never clean a top frame even on first cleans, a rectangular brush with pencil jets is almost a must for this method though. IMO cleaning top frames ( & i am very experienced with wfp ) is more trouble than its worth, but (before the barrage begins) this method takes accuracy, skill, patience, a good light pole & quality brush, but & an even bigger BUT, the rewards are massive, i have none of the troubles of others on the forum. i.e. taking 2/3 times before cleans come good, first cleans taking ages, dirty water dripping down onto glass later in day when i've left etc.etc. a good wfp'er doesn't need ANY excuses, he just needs knowlage & enough confidence not to follow the sheep.
many people think that cleaning the top frame is a must, this is totally wrong & it's even more wrong that many suppliers tell their customers this also.
tony
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I appreciate what your saying tony, and the big units work the same way in my area, but it does look awefull. There is a retirement home in my area with shiny windows, nice white frames but black top frames and really minging air vents. I don't have any experience compaired to you so I clean the lot, even brushing out the vents before I turn the water on. I'll learn. :)
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I appreciate what your saying tony, and the big units work the same way in my area, but it does look awefull. There is a retirement home in my area with shiny windows, nice white frames but black top frames and really minging air vents. I don't have any experience compaired to you so I clean the lot, even brushing out the vents before I turn the water on. I'll learn. :)
To be honest, you can hardly tell (on my accounts) that the frames (any part of the frame) dont get cleaned. never had anyone request to have frames cleaned, never had anyone complain frames are dirty.
The problem is that people go in with wfp totally over-selling it, with a barrage of conflicting advise, clean frames, windows stay cleaner for longer etc.etc. they're just making a rod for their own back. once you tell the customer all about how clean their frames will be etc & bull it up to be such a life changing experience then you've got to live up to it i'm afraid. All i give (if asked) is a quick explanation of how it works, when i've done their windows are clean, thats it. I clean windows, how i acheive this is my problem, not the customers. ;)
tony
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I clean the top frame mostly, but I still get runs sometimes.
It's all very well saying "If you don't, you could splash it when you rinse".
Even if you do the top frame you'll splash above that.
So then what? Do the bit above that, and above that?
Where does it end? The bloody roof?
If you ask me it's better to do it, but it's still pot luck.
Also, if someone open a top opening fanlight window (or whatever you call them), you're stuffed.
Impure water runs down from in the crack that you couldn't get to.
It happens every time. ::)
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By the way Tony, good post mate. ;)
It's way overhyped.
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mac mac we dont give excuses but we wish we were perfect as Im sure you are.
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LOL....
The brush I'm using is an oval vikan one, which does cause problems I must admit when trying NOT to touch the top frame. Anyone recommend a good rectangular brush?
If I were to clean the top frames, is it an idea to go round and do them all first, then return to do the windows? This way they would dry by the time I come back to do the glass?
Just been out collecting and had good feedback, even on an account I KNOW didn't turn out great. So maybe nobody notices? LOL.
Thanks for the tips :)
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If I were to clean the top frames, is it an idea to go round and do them all first, then return to do the windows? This way they would dry by the time I come back to do the glass?
Certainly would, but only on the first one or two cleans.
You don't want to be doing that every time, it'd be quicker by hand.
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Good stuff, I would feel more comfortable doing that. I've been told definitely not to do the top frames... but it just doesn't sit right? Is it maybe a yearly job?
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I'm not so thorough as I used to be. Apart from vents, I certainly do top frames on first cleans - and I follow up with a second go around for glass only. After that though, I haven't been doing top frames much. What I have been doing is to just do the top frames once a year during murkier Winter days when things don't show up as much. On the time that I do this, I rinse the glass more thoroughly.
This isn't about laziness though as it's no more effort really to do top frames. It's because I found there were too many windows where the water was getting into small gaps and going inside. I've found it seems OK so long as you pick the darker days for the top frame clean. Obviously on vents I leave well alone.
There is one job I have where top frame has never been cleaned - even first time. They leave the windows open slightly on a latch so I wouldn't dare do top frames on those. Never had a problem with the job either.
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Hardest i've found are the wood finish plastic frames - you can't see the dirt and you can't see if your jets have caught the frame.
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someone told me on here last week, one good tip is make sure you rinse rinse and rinse, i have now been using mine for just over a week, and the results have been excellent and customers are gobsmacked how just pure filtered water gets the windows so clean, oh and i have been doing the tops of the frame, the windows look like new after they are done, also i have picked up 4 new customers this week because they have seen the system work,
but f**k it has been hard work, i feel like my arms are going to drop off.
Haydn
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By the way Tony, good post mate. ;)
It's way overhyped.
It's just the way it is squeeks, wfp can be perfect most of the time, but,IMO not by the means of the majority of posters on here. I watched a newbie the other day, he'd taken advice from this forum & window tools forum & to say the least, he was completely wasting his time. both in his technique & his equipment. I give him some honest advice, i know it will take time for any newbie but what he was doing was absolutley laughable to say the least.
It's not that the eventual results are over-hyped, its that to get to the stage where you can make wfp really work IMO it takes well over a year, there is just so much to it than people on this forum make out ( thats what pi**es me off). it's not easy, it wont make you more money (for a good while anyway) & the results can be worse than when you started to even clean the windows if you dont know whet you're doing.
I could rant on forever but big brother's back on.
tony
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someone told me on here last week, one good tip is make sure you rinse rinse and rinse, i have now been using mine for just over a week, and the results have been excellent and customers are gobsmacked how just pure filtered water gets the windows so clean, oh and i have been doing the tops of the frame, the windows look like new after they are done, also i have picked up 4 new customers this week because they have seen the system work,
but f**k it has been hard work, i feel like my arms are going to drop off.
Haydn
This is another problem, people with 1 whole weeks experience wfp & thats it! the whole world is going to change. with this limited experience comes the danger of passing off totally useless & miss-leading advise to other members thinking of the change. I dont want to sound big-headed or harsh, but after 1 week wfp you may as well be a 1 year old child giving a talk on global economics!
tony
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I did the top frames when i first started 3 months ago they still look good might give them a quick rub twice a year.The thing ive got a problem with is i done a customer a fortnight ago its 2 in a block 1 upstair 1 downstair the old women downstairs does her own and she has started to complain about all the drips on her windows and when they dry in they are a mess ive checked and they are a mess i turned the flow down and still the same so i had to do the flat above with my ladders the only good thing is thats the only house in the street that i dont clean and see to be honest if somebody left drips all over my windows i would do the same. darren
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mac mac
been wfp over 3 years 2 teams so I think my advice is good never lost a customer from bad workmanship, good honest chit chat with the customer take on average 5 new customers every week, proof is in the pudding.....................
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Darren try wiping the cill when youve done then give her a clean for free at least you wont get ear ache and may be another job if she`s on the ground floor give her a discount dont forget she gets to see everyone who goes in !!!!
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Macc i completly agree with everything you`ve said,some of the best advice i`ve read on here for sometime for someone just starting out.
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I watched a newbie the other day, he'd taken advice from this forum & window tools forum & to say the least, he was completely wasting his time. both in his technique & his equipment. I give him some honest advice, i know it will take time for any newbie but what he was doing was absolutley laughable to say the least.
Hi Mac, thanks for your advice. What was he doing wrong?
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I watched a newbie the other day, he'd taken advice from this forum & window tools forum & to say the least, he was completely wasting his time. both in his technique & his equipment. I give him some honest advice, i know it will take time for any newbie but what he was doing was absolutley laughable to say the least.
Hi Mac, thanks for your advice. What was he doing wrong?
Hi sheepmeister
To be honest he was doing many things a new wfp'er might do, it was not his fault, like i say, it takes a lot of time, effort & trial & error with wfp, it'd take me all night to try & explain. The best tool you can have is knowlage & understanding of exactly what is going on, wfp will clean any glass perfectly every time, no doubt on that, so when it leaves a mark/run/spot whatever, you need to know why & decide how & where it's come from. it's very, very rare for it to be the water purity & is usualy from the top frame.
IMO, there are more top frames that are troublsome to clean than not. All water drips downwards wether it's clean or not. You seem to have a good understanding already of what i'm talking about, just don't think that you MUST clean the top frame or any of the frame, you dont. when a window doesn't come up clean, work out why, then you'll be able to correct the problem & fine-tune your technique.
As for his equipment (sold by a well known supplier).
18ft f/glass pole, he couldn't reach these particular top windows with both hands on the pole. (should've been 24ft).
oval vikan, most of his work is old sash windows, oval's wont cut into the top corners of the bottom section good enough. (should've been rectangular).
No goosneck, not even an angle adaptor on the end of his pole, these houses have 8" deep stone sills. he couldn't get to the bottom of the window so he was in the middle of the road, on his tip-toes, one handed trying to get the bottom of the glass.(absolutley disgraceful of the supplier, should be shot on sight).
tony
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Macc i completly agree with everything you`ve said,some of the best advice i`ve read on here for sometime for someone just starting out.
And a wink from squeeks, we'll be meeting up for afternoon tea & scones next. ;D ;D ;D
tony
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For a minute i thought you had missed my remark about your post there Macc,blimey i was starting to think you didn`t know what you were talking about until tonight LOL.
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For a minute i thought you had missed my remark about your post there Macc,blimey i was starting to think you didn`t know what you were talking about until tonight LOL.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You know what it's like, it's just so hard to try & explain some aspects of wfp with typing words on a forum, i do do my best to give good honest advise & also realise that i'm not perfect & that what works for one may not for another. I'm very passionate about wfp advise, especially to newbies, as i learned the hard way with bad advise & sold wrong poles & brushes etc. i pulled my bag out for the first 12 months at least, all down to bad advise & equipment when it could have been so much easier with the right knowlage to start with.
Do i rant a bit sometimes?
tony
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tony, go to bed early then read my post again, i gave no advise to anyone, i was stating what i was told on this forum and what othe wfp`s have told me to do, so i may be a one year old talking s**t, so does that make all the wfp`s who told me what to do sound like one year olds?
think before you come on here and start steaming into newbies, i dont take it very lightly, im on here for advise and if i get it i pass it on, and yes the job i do i do well, my customers are happy otherwise i wouldn`t of posted on here telling people.
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Im just starting out myself with WFP and have only done my own windows - just wanted to know if its necessary to do frames on custies house?
I see what you mean by runs from the top frame though as I got this problem when I did mine - think I need some more practise before I go out and do new customers!
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I watched a newbie the other day, he'd taken advice from this forum & window tools forum & to say the least, he was completely wasting his time. both in his technique & his equipment. I give him some honest advice, i know it will take time for any newbie but what he was doing was absolutley laughable to say the least.
Hi Mac, thanks for your advice. What was he doing wrong?
Hi sheepmeister
To be honest he was doing many things a new wfp'er might do, it was not his fault, like i say, it takes a lot of time, effort & trial & error with wfp, it'd take me all night to try & explain. The best tool you can have is knowlage & understanding of exactly what is going on, wfp will clean any glass perfectly every time, no doubt on that, so when it leaves a mark/run/spot whatever, you need to know why & decide how & where it's come from. it's very, very rare for it to be the water purity & is usualy from the top frame.
IMO, there are more top frames that are troublsome to clean than not. All water drips downwards wether it's clean or not. You seem to have a good understanding already of what i'm talking about, just don't think that you MUST clean the top frame or any of the frame, you dont. when a window doesn't come up clean, work out why, then you'll be able to correct the problem & fine-tune your technique.
As for his equipment (sold by a well known supplier).
18ft f/glass pole, he couldn't reach these particular top windows with both hands on the pole. (should've been 24ft).
oval vikan, most of his work is old sash windows, oval's wont cut into the top corners of the bottom section good enough. (should've been rectangular).
No goosneck, not even an angle adaptor on the end of his pole, these houses have 8" deep stone sills. he couldn't get to the bottom of the window so he was in the middle of the road, on his tip-toes, one handed trying to get the bottom of the glass.(absolutley disgraceful of the supplier, should be shot on sight).
tony
He didn't have an angle adaptor? At all?? That'd make it almost impossible, surely? Thanks for that. Think I'm gonna need a rectangular brush. I have been having trouble getting into the corners with the oval vikan. Friend of mine swears by Ionics brushes, so might give them a try.
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If you clean the top of the frame properly everytime and rinse it well you won't have any proplems. Don't try and save water by not rinsing properly it doesn't work.
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If you clean the top of the frame properly everytime and rinse it well you won't have any proplems. Don't try and save water by not rinsing properly it doesn't work.
Usually, not always.
WFP can never be relied upon.
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I think it's more the man behind the pole that lets the clean down!
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Maybe, but it's still inconsistent.
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If you clean the top of the frame properly everytime and rinse it well you won't have any proplems. Don't try and save water by not rinsing properly it doesn't work.
Surely this will take up more time as it requires time for the top frame to dry off??
How are you getting on with WFP Squeaky? Do your customers seem to be adapting to it?
I think the reason its inconsistent is that results cannot be checked at eye level, or straight away? If they could be checked straight away, problems could be solved.
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tony, go to bed early then read my post again, i gave no advise to anyone, i was stating what i was told on this forum and what othe wfp`s have told me to do, so i may be a one year old talking s**t, so does that make all the wfp`s who told me what to do sound like one year olds?
think before you come on here and start steaming into newbies, i dont take it very lightly, im on here for advise and if i get it i pass it on, and yes the job i do i do well, my customers are happy otherwise i wouldn`t of posted on here telling people.
I've now been to bed & errrrrrrrrrr, thought ??? & guess what? i'll not be editing my post :o
It's nothing personal mate, i was using you as an example, i'm on here to help people like yourself & be helped myself.
But how can you say you do your job well after only one week?
How do you know your custy's are happy after one week?
Why pass on advise that you don't actually know is correct?
After 6 to 12 months wfp & once you've done your entire round a good few times + various new & different jobs & used a few different poles & brushes you will think & work completely different to what you do now & who knows, i may even take you seriously ;D
tony
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How are you getting on with WFP Squeaky? Do your customers seem to be adapting to it?
I'm happier using it (when it doesn't break down ::)).
Customers generally don't like it though.
I've got a few who say it's done a good job, and they're happy.
But at least 20 people have made a point of telling me they preferred the old way.
I reckon if all of them were honest and didn't just put up with it, about 80% aren't keen on it.
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Whys that? They not happy with the results or just not keen on the windows being left wet?
Had a customer the other day say "are you not going to dry them off?" and when I explained it to him he sounded VERY skeptical. Only a £6 account every 2 months but if everyone starts then it might cause problems....
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How are you getting on with WFP Squeaky? Do your customers seem to be adapting to it?
I'm happier using it (when it doesn't break down ::)).
Customers generally don't like it though.
I've got a few who say it's done a good job, and they're happy.
But at least 20 people have made a point of telling me they preferred the old way.
I reckon if all of them were honest and didn't just put up with it, about 80% aren't keen on it.
Squeeky, as a well respected member of this forum & very experienced w/c do you think it would be beneficial for me to do a post explaining how to clean wfp (sucsessfully) without doing the top frame & the most beneficial method for the majority of circumstances? It would take a big post & a lot of explaining so i wouldn't want to waste my time & of course, it would only be based on my experience. it's just that, i see post after post of what i think is unnessesary suffering from new & new'ish wfp'ers. i ask you as i respect your honesty greatly & think we are on the same wave-length (if that doesn't sound too suck-uppy). ;)
tony
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Yeah, why not mate, if it's not too much bother. :)
I might learn a few things myself.
You do realise some people will argue with you though. ::)
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Whys that? They not happy with the results or just not keen on the windows being left wet? A bit of both.
Had a customer the other day say "are you not going to dry them off?" and when I explained it to him he sounded VERY skeptical. Only a £6 account every 2 months but if everyone starts then it might cause problems....
You're lucky, I've had at least 30 or 40 say that.
The results aren't always as good, I can see why they preferred it before.
They'll put up with it for now, because they know there's no way I'm going back up ladders now.
But as soon as they see another trad cleaner...I'm history.
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Yeah, why not mate, if it's not too much bother. :)
I might learn a few things myself.
You do realise some people will argue with you though. ::)
Other people arguing dont bother me squeeks, it's natural, i would expect it, we all do things different ways & i'm certainly not perfect. no doubt we all have ways that work for us, it's mainly to get rid of this blanket thought that you must clean all frames etc. I know that there are top frames that will clean perfect every time but IMO these are more rare than usual & also IMO 90% of bad results from wfp are born from cleaning the top frame. I just see so many problems on here, that i just dont experience with not doing the top (or any for that matter) frame. the problem is, it's so hard to explain in text.
Will think it out.
tony
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Go for it tony, but chances are it will get lost over the months and folks will still argue over which way is best.
BTW I now use your method and don't find a problem, cheers from me at least ;D
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Why are you waiting for the top frame to to dry? as long as you have brushed & rinsed it properly there won't be any crap left to mark the windows. Frames first then glass then a good rinse.
I don't know why so many cleaners are being negative about wfp, maybe its change they
don't like?
I expect you go home put a 78 on and watch a video.
Or maybe its the way you put yourself across explaining the new process to your customers?
When i changed over i had 120 houses and i didn't lose any, andi've had nothing but good coments from my customers. I also limit the number of houses i do in a day that way you don't have to rush and miss corners!
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Squeeky, as a well respected member of this forum & very experienced w/c do you think it would be beneficial for me to do a post explaining how to clean wfp (sucsessfully) without doing the top frame & the most beneficial method for the majority of circumstances? It would take a big post & a lot of explaining so i wouldn't want to waste my time & of course, it would only be based on my experience. it's just that, i see post after post of what i think is unnessesary suffering from new & new'ish wfp'ers. i ask you as i respect your honesty greatly & think we are on the same wave-length (if that doesn't sound too suck-uppy). ;)
tony
That would be really, really helpful. If its not too much trouble? Thank you :) It won't get lost as I'll probably bookmark it!! :P
Whys that? They not happy with the results or just not keen on the windows being left wet? A bit of both.
Had a customer the other day say "are you not going to dry them off?" and when I explained it to him he sounded VERY skeptical. Only a £6 account every 2 months but if everyone starts then it might cause problems....
You're lucky, I've had at least 30 or 40 say that.
The results aren't always as good, I can see why they preferred it before.
They'll put up with it for now, because they know there's no way I'm going back up ladders now.
But as soon as they see another trad cleaner...I'm history.
Thats what I worry about.... I currently share a lot of my round with a very cheap trad guy but my customers still stay loyal. One thing that bothers me is that they'll want them done trad AND realise they can save some money :-\ Or maybe am just worrying too much....
Hope it works out OK for you... am sure so many wouldn't swear by it if it didn't have some advantages! ???
Chris
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Anthony, I realised that as I posted LOL... if you wash and rinse the top frame thoroughly, then any muck from that will be washed off when you do the window below it? :P
To be honest, I love change and progress.... tis what keeps the world spinning... I just don't want to lose customers because my technique sucks!
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Go for it tony, but chances are it will get lost over the months and folks will still argue over which way is best.
BTW I now use your method and don't find a problem, cheers from me at least ;D
;D ;D
Nice one john
If it helps one person & saves him all the hassle of the dark side ;D then that's good enough for me. At the end of the day all we want is a clean window when we've done, how we acheive it doesn't matter. My method works excellently for me & i'm sure others would benefit also (with practice ofcourse, it's no mirracle).
tony
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I never do frames unless they ask and then i say it will take me twice as long and therefore charge double for it,after all we would charge extra having to do it off of ladders.I`m with Tony on this one the frames DO NOT need doing in order to produce a top job,it`s only because that`s the way WFP has been sold to everyone saying that the frames being cleaned is a must,I have had no complaints and rarely do frames unless asked,i was a quick trad WC and if i did the frames with WFP on every house it would be hardly any quicker if at all.Cleaning in this way requires a rectangular shaped brush to stop you having to go off the glass,it`s also an art and requires more dexterity.
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tony, when i first saw you post that you left the top frame(probably last year) I couldn't see how you could be accurate enough to stop splashing the frame, but changing to rectangular brush and pencil jets (previously oval brush and fan jets) made things so much easier to control accuracy and like you said "practice and you'll get there" ;)
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Hope it works out OK for you... am sure so many wouldn't swear by it if it didn't have some advantages!
It has many advantages & the results should be perfect, BUT, to get to this stage is what the whole problem is. The problem of - wfp = instant millionaire, easy life, work done for 11am, customers gagg for it, my round is suddenly going to quadruple etc.etc. yawn, yawn, yawn. you know the score? ::)
tony
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I never do frames unless they ask and then i say it will take me twice as long and therefore charge double for it,after all we would charge extra having to do it off of ladders.I`m with Tony on this one the frames DO NOT need doing in order to produce a top job,it`s only because that`s the way WFP has been sold to everyone saying that the frames being cleaned is a must,I have had no complaints and rarely do frames unless asked,i was a quick trad WC and if i did the frames with WFP on every house it would be hardly any quicker if at all.Cleaning in this way requires a rectangular shaped brush to stop you having to go off the glass,it`s also an art and requires more dexterity.
ditto, ditto, ditto, (tea & scones anyone?) ;D
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tony, when i first saw you post that you left the top frame(probably last year) I couldn't see how you could be accurate enough to stop splashing the frame, but changing to rectangular brush and pencil jets (previously oval brush and fan jets) made things so much easier to control accuracy and like you said "practice and you'll get there" ;)
Wey, hey, at last, john you are my saviour. Keep up the SKILLED work ;D
tony
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I've got wfp purely for me not my customers. Why spend thousands for your customers benefit? It's to make my life easier. On paper it's financial suicide - why enter a trade where the start up costs are so high when you can do the same job with the same wages for next to nothing? Me Me Me :)
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I don`t think you can earn the same working trad,if fact i know you can`t.
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I don`t think you can earn the same working trad,if fact i know you can`t.
Agreed, but you need extra work to make extra money, and it loses you quite a bit of work.
I'm making 30-40% more per day, but over the month I'm about 10% worse off.
It just means I get work done quicker, I've now got to fill an empty week.
Then I'll be better off.
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Squeaks,
You should monitor how many customers you lose and gain. My nightmare when switching to wfp was customers on mass cancelling due to them not likeing wfp. That as not happened.
I hate it when I lose a customer, If i gain 10 new customers and lose one old customer It feels I am doing badly, as loseing a customer allways feels worse then gaining several.
When I switched to wfp 20 months ago I wrote down on a sheet of paper (Sevreal Sheets)a column for New customers and a column for customers who cancelled.
17 months out of 18 I have got more new work then what I have lost. The one month that I lost more then I gained was only by £5.00.
Heres an example looking at my sheets April 06 LOST 3 customers worth £21.00, Gained 12 customers worth £158.00. Net total gain £137.00.
MAY 07 Lost 4 customers total £32.50
Gained 18 customers Total £249.00. Net total gain £216.50
Now if I had not wrote them down I could swear my round was doing badly as I know how I feel when I lose a customer.
You need to canvass if you are loseing more then you gain, This applys to a trad w/c as well as wfp. Basic economics. Your round must grow. Not only in size but in the profit you make.
My round is now at the point where I have enough work to say I am full, but I will allways take on new work, it will just take me longer to get round. I build the extra customers into my round, when I have between 5% and 10% Too many customers, I put up my prices and lose customers who dont want to pay. My round then increases in its profitability.
Or I sell odd work to a local w/c if I get to much.
Nel
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Guess I'll have to canvas.
I hate the thought of going back to doorknocking. :(
It feels desperate, and like I'm going backwards 6 years or so.
On the subject of picking up work, apart from the small bunch Tosh gave me, I've picked up 2 in 4 months.
So no, I'm not gaining anything. :-\
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Whys that? They not happy with the results or just not keen on the windows being left wet? A bit of both.
Had a customer the other day say "are you not going to dry them off?" and when I explained it to him he sounded VERY skeptical. Only a £6 account every 2 months but if everyone starts then it might cause problems....
You're lucky, I've had at least 30 or 40 say that.
The results aren't always as good, I can see why they preferred it before.
They'll put up with it for now, because they know there's no way I'm going back up ladders now.
But as soon as they see another trad cleaner...I'm history.
I had something like a 5% turnaround in my customer base during the first couple of months of WFP. That wasn't a 5% loss of work though because new people wanted me to use it due to windows that weren't really reachable the trad way. Since then, some of the people who grumbled at first have since said that they do like the results and the others haven't said anything but I'm still with them nearly two years later so I assume it must be OK. I suppose that some of my first cleans were a bit flakey because they were first cleans and due to inexperience. I did explain that things would improve as the detergent film was gradually removed and as the frames got cleaner but I was only parroting what I read on here. I wasn't totally convinced myself and maybe some of them picked up on that.
I think you might be in a similar position to me Rog - needing to get more work in to fill the gaps caused by working faster.
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macmac
About a month ago, I ask Aquatec ( peter ) if he would Make a video showing how to clean with WFP. Not just the basics but even those windows that give us jip. A few interested but no reply from Peter, But to be fair to him he is a very busy man....
In my experience and thats just 7 months of WFP I have found that you need to clean the frames, Some windows you can get away with others not, But if you know the secret of how to clean with no frames please, please let me know, If you are not good at explaining things Then can I suggest you think of making a video, That way you can have a visual impact on the new WFP ( like me ) and they will learn it Quicker..
Look forward to the post......... ;)
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Squeeks...on the matter of getting new customers ...I have this year got 69 new customers...and I do not canvass...just leaflets....
With this new week I have set a new target of putting out 100 leaflets each and every work day until Christmas...
I have 2 sets of leaflets, 1 that say I have cleaned in your 'street today' and another that is just the general....want a w/c blah, blah....this way it does not take long to get the leaflets out.
another 31 customers this year and I will have reached my target....the numbers do not look too bad either ;)
Good luck...I am the same as yourself.....too little work, too much time.
Dave.
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macmac
About a month ago, I ask Aquatec ( peter ) if he would Make a video showing how to clean with WFP. Not just the basics but even those windows that give us jip. A few interested but no reply from Peter, But to be fair to him he is a very busy man....
In my experience and thats just 7 months of WFP I have found that you need to clean the frames, Some windows you can get away with others not, But if you know the secret of how to clean with no frames please, please let me know, If you are not good at explaining things Then can I suggest you think of making a video, That way you can have a visual impact on the new WFP ( like me ) and they will learn it Quicker..
Look forward to the post......... ;)
No chance of a video (only got 36k connection)
But will try & write a post later this week. ;)
tony
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I've found some of what you've had to say informative macmac, particularly the over selling of which I think I do. And as you say, it comes back because they expect the earth for very little money.
I think I will always clean the frames, but not make such big claims about it.