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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Mike 108 on July 17, 2007, 09:28:42 pm

Title: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Mike 108 on July 17, 2007, 09:28:42 pm
Tested TDS this morning - 82 ppm
Changed resin. TDS now 112 ppm

Was warned that reading might be high at first but would come down to 0 ppm as more water was run through.

Why is this and how much water needs to be run through.

Thanks

Mike
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: AuRavelling79 on July 17, 2007, 09:32:42 pm
Something weird here.

What is your set up?

Tap water reading?

Is there an R/O?

Are the seals tight?
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: pjulk on July 17, 2007, 09:37:01 pm
are you using one of those 10" di vessels if so have you put it back together correctly.

Paul
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Luke Johnson on July 17, 2007, 09:49:42 pm
you may have filled the vessel up too high, I know this can cause problems.....have you seen my wfp 1960s pictures?
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Mike 108 on July 17, 2007, 09:55:34 pm
Malc/Paul

The Di unit is 18" tall

No Ro unit (soft water area)  tds usually 0 ppm

The tap water has tds reading of 112 (just checked it)

Water coming out of Di unit is also 112 (reading in subject heading must have beeen a typing error!)

I can't see how I could have put the Di unit back together wrong - it wouldn't fit together any other way

Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Mike 108 on July 17, 2007, 10:00:15 pm
Luke

When I first got the Di vessel (from a friend) there was an air gap at the top - I thought that maybe the resin had 'settled'

When I filled it up today, I filled it right up to the top!

Why do think that might cause a problem?

Mike
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Mike 108 on July 17, 2007, 10:13:41 pm
There is a 'sponge' inside the resin tube. Does it go at the bottom (underneath the resin) or at the top (on top of the resin).

Thanks
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on July 17, 2007, 10:23:42 pm
the sponge goes at the end where the water comes out to stop the resin passing through the pure water
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: DASERVICES on July 17, 2007, 10:42:56 pm
Your DI vessel is too small you need one of these:- http://www.gapswater.co.uk/acatalog/vessels.html

The one you have only works with an R/O
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: macmac on July 17, 2007, 11:24:01 pm
I have 2 11" di vessels, there is no sponge ??? in either of them & they've run 100% for over 3 years. no resin can get through a di vessel unless you connect it back up the wrong way, i.e. there is an in & out.
Never fill it right up to the top with resin, it should be filled 3/4 only.

tony
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Mike 108 on July 17, 2007, 11:39:05 pm
Macmac

I didn't know that.  I'll take some out tomorrow and see what happens to the tds reading.

Thanks
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: macmac on July 17, 2007, 11:42:13 pm
Macmac

I didn't know that.  I'll take some out tomorrow and see what happens to the tds reading.

Thanks

If there is no IN/OUT marked on your di vessel top, take a close look & study it's workings & it will become clear which way the water should flow.

tony
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Mike 108 on July 17, 2007, 11:49:16 pm
Macmac/Alex

There is an 'In' and 'Out' marked.

I'll take out some resin tomorrow.  Will also investigate to see if the sponge can go anywhere different to where it is now.

Thanks

Mike
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: JM123 on July 17, 2007, 11:56:25 pm
Hi mate, you're using far too small a vessel.  you need 2 11ltr+ vessels.  a 750ml vessel just can't di the water that fast, plus it'll burn out after 15ltrs maximum.  If you use 2 11ltr vessels then a bag of resin will last for about 21000ltrs.
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: macmac on July 17, 2007, 11:59:27 pm
Hi mate, you're using far too small a vessel.  you need 2 11ltr+ vessels.  a 750ml vessel just can't di the water that fast, plus it'll burn out after 15ltrs maximum.  If you use 2 11ltr vessels then a bag of resin will last for about 21000ltrs.

I'm confused, he says his di vessel is 18" tall ???

tony
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: JM123 on July 18, 2007, 12:03:58 am
oh, sorry - slight reading mistake on my part, thought he said it was 10inches but sorry its 18 inches (no funny jokes please)


ignore my last post.


in fact, just forget I was ever here!
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: macmac on July 18, 2007, 12:07:05 am
oh, sorry - slight reading mistake on my part, thought he said it was 10inches but sorry its 18 inches (no funny jokes please)


ignore my last post.


in fact, just forget I was ever here!

but what about the sponge JM? i've never heard of a sponge in a DI.

tony
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: JM123 on July 18, 2007, 12:12:27 am
well you see tony that was what threw me - I just seen 10" in one post and sponge in another and automatically assumed a 10inch ro-man refillable vessel (750ml)  those are the only ones I know of that have sponge in them.

We only stock structural and dekal di vessel, neither of which has sponge.
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: KarlJones on July 18, 2007, 12:54:06 am
Inspired by this thread I decided to see what happens to TDS after it has gone through the sediment and carbon filters.  The idea was to see if guys that can half justify using DI systems with no RO could benefit from using carbon and sediment filters...

Well my TDS prior to any filtering was 247,  after filtering it was 246.

So no, my thoughts that you might be able to use carbon and sediment filters prior to the DI and cut cost were wrong.  But thought I would post it anyway just incase you were wondering.

Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: *foxman on July 18, 2007, 01:09:45 am
Good test. It shows that the membranes do all the work and you need the prefilters to protect them from clogging.
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: KarlJones on July 18, 2007, 01:52:37 am
yes thats right but if I had to guess I would have thought it would have dropped the TDS by 10 or something like that.  I was surprised at 1 TDS.

As you say, the membranes in a RO system do all the work.  So you must change the filters before the TDS rises. If you wait for the TDS to rise then its the membranes and not the filters that are shot.

Back to the DI system. 
Have you considered getting another DI canister, as folks on here have pointed out  you run two in line.  The way this works you basically use your old used resin as a pre filter rather than just throw it away.

It makes more sense as feeding 90 TDS into your new resin is better than feeding 112 into it and saves you a bit of cash by making your new resin last longer.  You could always go for a smaller canister for the pre filter and change the resin in it (just store the old used resin and use it to fill it up) if cash is a problem, but of course, if you got another 7x18 you can just swop them around and re fill the oldest one.

My own system is a bit different to most, I RO it into a water butt and then DI it when I put it into the barrels, it was just easier to plumb it that way.  But I have wondered about getting one of those small 250ml DI jobs for on my RO and just shoving old used resin in it once a week to help bring it down a few TDS before the DI.



Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: DASERVICES on July 18, 2007, 08:35:02 am
Mike,

Do you have a picture of it, or the link which you bought from so we can see what it looks like . If we have that then guys on here can help you resolve it straight away.

Doug
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Mike 108 on July 18, 2007, 08:43:31 am
D.A.

No. But if I can't sort it this morning I'll take some pictures of the parts and post them on the site.

Thanks
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Mike 108 on July 18, 2007, 09:53:18 am
Paul Griffin/Macmac/Luke Johnson/D.A.Services/Alex Wingrove/and all

Thanks guys

It's now sorted.

What I'd done was put the resin tube in upside down !!!  (Cringe/embarrassment)

The rubber seal on the tube end which should have been in contact with the lid was at the bottom - the incoming water was just short-circuiting across the lid and coming straight out again!

What a plonker!

For anyone's information, I haven't taken any resin out of the tube yet - it's still full to the top - but everything seems to be OK now. TDS reading 0 ppm.

Alex.  I see what you mean about the sponge - that bit was fitted correctly.

Thanks again guys. Sorry about wasting your time.

Mike
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: pjulk on July 18, 2007, 03:42:17 pm
He He

We all make these silly mistake's at one time or another i have put a di unit back together wrong myself and could understand why the TDS was sky high after i put new resin in.
I took me a day or so to work it out


Paul
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: JM123 on July 18, 2007, 04:26:15 pm
I remember someone on here once before put softening salt in the vessel, they couldn't understand why it wasn't bringing the tds down.  suppose we all make mistakes.
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Jason Atwell on July 18, 2007, 07:46:38 pm
Paul Griffin/Macmac/Luke Johnson/D.A.Services/Alex Wingrove/and all

Thanks guys

It's now sorted.

What I'd done was put the resin tube in upside down !!!  (Cringe/embarrassment)

The rubber seal on the tube end which should have been in contact with the lid was at the bottom - the incoming water was just short-circuiting across the lid and coming straight out again!

What a plonker!

For anyone's information, I haven't taken any resin out of the tube yet - it's still full to the top - but everything seems to be OK now. TDS reading 0 ppm.

Alex.  I see what you mean about the sponge - that bit was fitted correctly.

Thanks again guys. Sorry about wasting your time.

Mike

Hey father in law!! I suppose thats what happens when you get to your age!!!! :-X ;D
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: Pat Purcell on July 18, 2007, 09:45:24 pm
Inspired by this thread I decided to see what happens to TDS after it has gone through the sediment and carbon filters.  The idea was to see if guys that can half justify using DI systems with no RO could benefit from using carbon and sediment filters...

Well my TDS prior to any filtering was 247,  after filtering it was 246.

So no, my thoughts that you might be able to use carbon and sediment filters prior to the DI and cut cost were wrong.  But thought I would post it anyway just incase you were wondering.


I find that strange as well, the DI system we used to have came with a carbon pre filter which was supposed to lengten the life of the resin, I;m not questioning your results I;m just wondering why it was there at all if it didn't do anything ???
Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: KarlJones on July 19, 2007, 12:34:01 am
Well when I thought about it sort of became a bit clearer.  I should say that there is actually 3 pre filters, 1 sediment and 2 carbon filters that managed to drop it by 1 TDS.

But when I think about it, they are not there to get rid of "totally dissolved solids".  They are there to get rid of solids that are not dissolved, in other words the sort of stuff that will clog up my membranes.

I suppose, the only true way for me to test there effect on DI resin is to run water through some DI resin (250ml) without it being filtered,  and then do the same with it being filtered.  Testing it at 5 liters, 20, 40 and 60 should give a good set of results with my TDS.

This sounds fun to me, so I will do it but it might take me a week or two to get the bits I need.

Title: Re: New resin - tds reading 132 !!
Post by: JM123 on July 19, 2007, 11:59:38 am
sediment filter - removes non dissolved solids (sand + silt etc)
carbon filter - removes VOC's (Volatile Organic Compounds) and Chlorine
RO - removes dissolved solids and salts from the water
di - removes any salts/solids which have made it through the membrane.