Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: D.Salkeld_Ltd on July 14, 2007, 03:45:53 pm
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Hi All,
After 19 years trad window cleaning and just over 1 year WFP. I have gone through the initial learning curve of WFP and now I am totally convinced it is an excellent possitive step forward for our industry.
As I have stated before; there is now no NEED to use ladders contantly for window cleaning. I have scars to prove how dangerouse ladders are and I believe that anyone seriousely in this industry should consider WFP seriousely.
We, as an industry, the associations and federations should be encouraging and helping ladder users to convert over to WFP.
Now I also feel we should not be forced off ladders by legislation defenitely making ladders for window cleaning illegal. On the other hand legislation should stop those few idiot employers forcing workers up ladders!!
I feel the ONLY drawback to WFP is leaving the windows wet! But iff this is looked at sensibaly then it should not be a consideration as the windows dry off perfectly well.
David Salkeld
P.S
Excuse the splening......err...spelnin......er spelling?
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working in a rural historic area i find that the windows such as georgian sash ones with bad paint work are not as suitable for wfp, so i certainly wouldnt want ladders banned but am glad i have another tool i use about half the working week.
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I don't like being told what to do and if I want to climb a ladder now and then, it's up to me!! I don't want some government official telling me what I can and can't do >:( Long live ladders I say and the right to choose, mind you once the enviromentalists realise how much water is used by us window cleaners then wfp will be banned anyway :-\ guaranteed!
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Ladders are not dangerous it is the people that use them, use them correctly then you will be fine.
That's great that you only use WFP but I for one like to use both WFP and TRAD.
I use trad more than WFP but WFP guys call ladders but think its ok to use them for access reasons. You can hurt yourself falling from 2 rungs up aswell as 10 rungs up.
It is upto the user to decide and common sense should prevail.
Regards
Adam
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I don't like being told what to do and if I want to climb a ladder now and then, it's up to me!! I don't want some government official telling me what I can and can't do >:( Long live ladders I say and the right to choose, mind you once the enviromentalists realise how much water is used by us window cleaners then wfp will be banned anyway :-\ guaranteed!
Maybe you dont like being told what to do, but how would you feel about and employer telling your son to climb a unsecured ladder?
Ps wfp does not waste water as you put it, it uses it then returns it to the water table, its not damaged or polluted. unlike what your washing machine does to it with detergents, so your washing machine is at greater risk of being banned by environmentallists as you put it than wfp has!
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Ladders arent dangerous?????????? are you real if that was the case H&s wouldnt be bothering there time with changing the rules.
I know people who have used ladders for 20 odd years they dont like WFP but can admit defeat with the saftey issues, it takes one tired day or one gust of wind or sudden change of weather or one time you just mis place that foot!!
And that could be it, see you in the next life!!
As for those that use them for access at least there changing with the times and trying to change, there cutting down with the use of ladders which is most definatly safer!!
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I don't like being told what to do and if I want to climb a ladder now and then, it's up to me!! I don't want some government official telling me what I can and can't do >:( Long live ladders I say and the right to choose, mind you once the enviromentalists realise how much water is used by us window cleaners then wfp will be banned anyway :-\ guaranteed!
Maybe you dont like being told what to do, but how would you feel about and employer telling your son to climb a unsecured ladder?
Ps wfp does not waste water as you put it, it uses it then returns it to the water table, its not damaged or polluted. unlike what your washing machine does to it with detergents, so your washing machine is at greater risk of being banned by environmentallists as you put it than wfp has!
Every litre of water that comes out of your domestic water-system goes through your local water companys pipes, it is there that it is treated with chemicals that do harm the environment, including the 80% that goes down the drain from your RO system.
Thats pollution, the addition of unnecessary chemicals to water thats flushed straight down the drain; not even used to flush the john.
Matt
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Ronnie, yes I am real and been cleaning for 20 years, used regulary and using them as they should be used then there is no problem. Useing ladders every now and then is when you will have problems.
If we all thought like that Ronnie we would be all rapped up in cotton wool.
Ban cars cos they kill people every day, you don't drive do you Ronnie ?? if you do you must get real, you might kill yourself!!
Regards
Adam ;) ;)
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including the 80% that goes down the drain from your RO system
80% ?!? Mine is not even 50%, but to be honest if the water company didn't try to call the stuff that comes out of taps water, and actually made it purer, there would be no need for RO systems.
So blame the water company mate, not the guy trying to make it suitable for a DI polish.
As for ladders and safety, I am sure ladders can be used safely, but not profitably. I tried it, using a ladder matrix and ladder stand off and making sure my ladder was safe every time. It took forever. But lets be totally honest. The grave yard has loads of window cleaners that thought they were safer than they were so I suppose another one or two won't really hurt.
WFP vs Ladders, :D
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I don't like being told what to do and if I want to climb a ladder now and then, it's up to me!! I don't want some government official telling me what I can and can't do >:( Long live ladders I say and the right to choose, mind you once the enviromentalists realise how much water is used by us window cleaners then wfp will be banned anyway :-\ guaranteed!
Maybe you dont like being told what to do, but how would you feel about and employer telling your son to climb a unsecured ladder?
Ps wfp does not waste water as you put it, it uses it then returns it to the water table, its not damaged or polluted. unlike what your washing machine does to it with detergents, so your washing machine is at greater risk of being banned by environmentallists as you put it than wfp has!
Every litre of water that comes out of your domestic water-system goes through your local water companys pipes, it is there that it is treated with chemicals that do harm the environment, including the 80% that goes down the drain from your RO system.
Thats pollution, the addition of unnecessary chemicals to water thats flushed straight down the drain; not even used to flush the john.
Matt
I dont use an ro system, and I collect & filter rain water
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asboss lets hope the next death or serious injury is not happing to you from a accident on ladders :'(
And well you will notice that every thing chnges in life and mainly for the better like slower speed limits in certain areas saffer cars, must wear seat belts and no using phones whilst driving rules.
I guess you never had a near mis on ladders either.......your a living miracle!!
wrapped up in cotten wool.........well i like my life and will continue to do so as saftley as possible, yes accidents happen just walking down the street so y in courage these to happen by risking your life up a ladder!
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Ronnie,
sounds like your WFP only, maybe I am wrong but saftey is paramount to me and I adhere to H&S requirements thankyou, and yes I do move with the times.
I give a first class job and I am 90% commercial and deal with H & S officers nearly every day. Risk and method statements are done on a regular basis and updated every year so don't try to preach saftey to me.
There are more hazards using a pole and hose and the quality is not as good as Trad. If giving substandard finishes are order of the day for you then get another job, maybe cut your pole down and start brushing the pavement.
Cheerrs
;) ;)
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I`ve used ladders for over 15yrs but i try and use WFP on everything i can these days,i don`t understand why some of you wcs want to use ladders at all if you don`t have to,it`s a lot more knackering using ladders for a start let alone the safty aspect which is the most important thing.I know these topics can get boring but within a few years as more and more wcs start using WFP it will become the norm,and the bucket and ladder in the main will be long gone except for inside work of course.WFP is safer quicker and earns you far more money,why on earth would anyone want to climb ladders all day if they no longer have to,i was so sceptical about it at first but stuck with it and i`m so glad i did it`s now a pleasure going to work.
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preaching saftey??? ;D
"There are more hazards using a pole and hose and the quality is not as good as Trad. If giving substandard finishes are order of the day for you then get another job, maybe cut your pole down and start brushing the pavement."
really more hazards hey and substandard finish i guess you have never used it and if you did obvouslet not very good ;)
i would start brushing tha pavement and make good money i would!!
now iv used ladders on and off for about 10 years and had many near misses but i enjoy my life and want to continue to do so.
i started Wfp (on my own 2 years ago) and never looked back and never had any near misses have built up my round from nothing with WFP and have a customer satisfaction.
so go on answer my question any near misses or do we already know the answers??
And if it ever comes to it i will use my pole to sweep you off the pavement ;) ;) ;)
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NWH, good post mate and you are right upto a point. With WFP you are looking for the right type of windows that will cope with the system, with trad you can do any window but if there is a window or job that is unsafe or you can't get to with trad thats when WFP comes into play.
As for money it's all down to your price, I make a good living only using WFP as a tool. ( an add-on ). I even clean cracked and windows where putty is falling out, when they are safe to do so.
People make out that WFP is the answer to all your window cleaning needs but it's not, you have to cherry pick the jobs to suit your system.
I am not against WFP but lets all get real, it's a TOOL and a TOOL only.
Adam
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i agree but i good tool and tool that helps save lives!
but its not perfect no matter how good the operator is.
so have you had any near misses?? :-*
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I also agree Asboss,jobs do need to be cherry picked in order for all to run smoothly.But once you have that`s when you can and only then really see the advantage of WFP,i also use trad but only when safe and on jobs that are to good to turn away,i have some weeks when i don`t need to get the ladder out at all and it`s then that i think god this job is easy.
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Ronnie,
your near misses were your fault, what were they ? did you not use a saftey devise? if not then you are a hazard to yourself and others around you. Basic saftey measures are ladder stopper or similar and ladder mitts oh and of course not placing the ladder on uneven ground or slippy surfaces. The right angle and weather conditions also play a part. I control my working area and cone off for the public. Doin commercial work as I do means I cannot work unless these steps are followed. It's the same as driving a car, airbags crumple zones etc.as you pointed out.
Accidents happen and tripping over a hose or stepping back and falling over a wall are all hazards related to WFP.
I AM WFP ALSO RONNIE, I think you missed that .
If what I have wrote is incorrect and I am sure it's not then I will gladly back down.
Sweeping statements regarding ladders will just wind people up and cause friction. If you want to work a certain way then that's fine but don't put down guys who work differently from you.
You are a fellow shiner who works hard to make a living and i respect that.
Regards
Adam
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Sorry for the delay, the webpage went very slow and stopped for some reason.
Yes Ronnie I have had near misses and they were down to me rushing and not the ladders. I have not had a miss for quite a few years because I don't have to rush around any more, 6 hours a day does me fine.
You will get near misses in every job that is life I am afraid and hopefully you can come back and learn from it.
Regards Ronnie and it is Saturday night after all so going out for a few beers
Adam ;)
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Well said David have being saying this for ages.
Was listening to an experience today of a window cleaner who damaged his spine and was off work for six months. He had never had a fall in his life.
I think no one on this forum can say there is no risk of us falling off a ladder, there is always a risk involved going up a ladder but we do it. The problem today which I often now see happening is there are a growing number of obstacles being placed in peoples gardens for examples decking. People no longer consider "oh I should not put that there as my window cleaner would not be able to pitch his ladders to clean the windows". It is now becoming more dangerous to clean windows with ladders even with new builds.
Hence wfp is the tool to overcome these obstacles. People will still ask us to clean unsafe windows but now with wfp we can say that is the only option. But people need to be educated about health and safety and reasons why wfp should be used. The associations should be pushing the HSE in promoting WFP, this is something the SLWCN will be doing.
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mind you once the enviromentalists realise how much water is used by us window cleaners then wfp will be banned anyway :-\ guaranteed!
Ihope not :'(...
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Do you watch the weather or have you had any rain latley i know i have,hosepipe bans or people moaning about WFP use i don`t think so not this year.
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iv not been putting down ladders just giving my opinion, now yes there were times it was my fault but i was young and un a wear of saftey devices(my employer was a cow boy and my dad).
I think most people are a danger to there self as well i mean time is money most want to keep earning more and more they find it hard to turn down work and they get overloaded but dont have enough to take some one reliable on full time.
Cause of this they end rushing which will bring out mistakes and mistakes up a ladder can be fatel!
But also you could use saftey devices and be having a bad day (argument wiv misses or something) so your mind isnt totally there and you mis judge the next step............ and then you could end up on the floor dead or badley hurt.
Now im certain we all have these bad days but when i do with WFP i proberly mis a window or let the pole drop and brake it but i can still work the next day!!
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My big plus for WFP is how easy it is compared to lugging those ladders around. I can do a job in less time and with less effort. The last thing I want is for all the other WCs in my area to go over to WFP. Stay trad, please stay trad.
I definitely don't want all window cleaners to go over to WFP.
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I dont use an ro system, and I collect & filter rain water
Not according to your website.
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Ronnie, you can't work if your looking up and walk back then fall over a plant pot or wall and break your arm, leg and skull.
Bit extreme I know but could happen to you every day. Wake up and smell the roses mate, we can all have an accident.
Enough said :-X
Regards
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you talk rubbish i thinkyou just like to argue well go and do that with your dog iv give my opinions and well iv you dont like it i dont care. :-X :-X
By the way just used my old brush to sweep a pavement earny good hourly rate thanx for the advice :-* :-*
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Don't have a dog and mind you don't trip when you sweep up matey. ( sweeping on a Sunday ) you must be hard up.
;D ;D ;D
Take that sponge from between your ears and you might learn a thing or two.
There are two sides to a coin and mabe one day you will see there are two sides to this thread which you can't seem to grasp. ???
Have a good day ;)
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cheers asboss!!!
Ill borrow that sponge just incase you fall of your ladder ;)
i notice you are from manchester were abouts and wots the company name is it a secret???
obvousley you dont agree with my opinion and i totally know theres two sides to the thread i feel WFP is far safer than ladders even when used saftly.
Hard up ??? ye thats right if only i was as good as you ;D ;D
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Yea manchester, I don't mind my location being known, whats yours ? I see your location is a big secret .
Do you want to come and look me up ?
Ronnie, it's not a "my way or the highway" situation, you must remember this in life and you will go far. ;)
I am not going to waist anymore time on you so we will agree to disagree if thats ok.
Good luck for the future Ronnie.
Adam 8) 8) 8)
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Not wishing at all to come into the numpty catergory I have already asked you a question about this on the varitec thread, err, ahem, tugster.
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I dont use an ro system, and I collect & filter rain water
Not according to your website.
Can you read? I dont think so!
Why are there so many numptys on this site?
OMG is there any need for a response like that?
Theres no need for insults.
Im sensing some irony in it though.
Matt
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Not wishing at all to come into the numpty catergory I have already asked you a question about this on the varitec thread, err, ahem, tugster.
Answered, Mike at Varitech can supply all the pumps and filters you need.
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Keep your replies objective and on topic please, insults are frowned upon, if you wish to have a go at one another then do it through private email and not on open forum.
Ian
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Keep your replies objective and on topic please, insults are frowned upon, if you wish to have a go at one another then do it through private email and not on open forum.
Ian
Thankyou Ian
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Asboss thats right we have our deifferent opinion thats far and we are fellow window cleaners in the same area we we could mayb need advice or even help of each other in the future.
I feel you started the snide comments but lets forget about it.
My location is on my website which you will find on my profile.
Regards
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Well Well Adam V WFP, surprise surprise ::) (NOT)