Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Steve Chapman on July 08, 2007, 02:41:43 pm
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We have just replaced the same vac motor in one of our excels for the third time in 9 months, is anyone else experiencing trouble with the life of these motors?
We never let water or foam pass through and are very careful, and the one thats gone looks as if its brand new, yet its just grinded to a halt after making the normal screeching noises and burning smell!
We do use the excel nearly every work day all day long but surely they should last longer than 3 months?
I cant think what else could make them go, any ideas?
regards
steve
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Steve,is it vac 2 if so, I had the same problem.The black seal at the bottom of the waste tank was leaking and dripping directly on to the motor.If so get it in to Extracta it cost about £50.The only thing is it keeps going every 6 months I've had 3 seals fitted in 18 months!John allways asks me the same old shxxxte "have you been using solvents in your tank,and all this crap about how he's never come across it before"
regards Jeff ???
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Some cheaper pattern vac/motors appear to have a very short life when compared to the original Lamb Amtek. Could this be the case?
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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jeff,
it is vac no 2, but i'm sure there is no leak but may be worth investigating!
Ken, the vac is one from woodbridge and is alot cheaper than the ones from extracta but is still a ametek one so should last longer than 3 months!
can they be fixed or are they totally blown?
regards
steve
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Hi Guys
I had so many vac motors in my Excel that my accountant even remarked on it.
When I switched to Alltec no failures in two years :o
Cheers
Doug
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I used to get 600 - 700 hours out of the exel's vac motors.
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Hey carpet Doc where do you keep your machine at night? I made the mistake of keeping it in the van and had to have a new vac motor fitted but was still under guarantee. I then switched to keeping it in the shed...bang another motor needed!
I now keep it in the house and seems fine. Apparently according to John and Brian the cold and early morning dew can effect the motors and should never be kept outside/in sheds etc....
Next time it goes however I am going to get John Kelly to fit a new one for me...a bloody lot cheaper than Extracta do it for!
John
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What these machines need is a soft start. Whereby the motors start up at a low speed, then increase to full speed. It would stop the surge of o rpm tp 20000 rpm within a second.
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what i cant understand is it is the no.2 vac every time, the no.1 has been in there for ages and is still fine, if damp was the problem surely it would affect both motors,
i was wondering whether one motor works harder than the other so it burns out a lot quicker, i can live with replacing it every six months, but 3 is just silly, perhaps it's because we are buying the cheaper ones?
Is there any maintenence that can be done to the motors to make them last longer?
regards
steve
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Yes.
You could install a cooling fan to the motor compartment or in the base as I did so that it blows air OUT of there.
Reguarly use compressed air to blow out the carbon deposits from the air intack side of the motors (accessed from outside)
And the main thing, run the machine for a few minutes after the final job of the day to expell all damp air, do this with the vac tank lid open.
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do you think the warmer but at this moment in time damper humid air has anything to do with it?
Shaun
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Now I swear by this and its worked all the time in the 10 years I been carpet cleaning. I was going through vac motors like there was no tomorrow until I took this advice and my vac motors in my Alltec Pro Plus just go on and on and on, they last years. I dont know why it works but it does and the piece of advice was DONT LET THE VAC MOTORS RUN UNTIL THE BRUSHES WEAR OUT AND THE MOTOR STOPS. CHANGE THE BRUSHES SAY EVERY 450/500 HOURS. There will still be enough of the brush to keep going for a while but change them religiously after this time and it did the trick. I dont want any anorak shooting me down in flames here. This worked for me fact. By the way, the times I had foam sucked into the vac motors was nobody's business and they still lasted years as long as I CHANGED THE BRUSHES BEFORE THEY WORE OUT. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thanx
Chris lol
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Also ensure that the rods and washers that the motor are mounted on are of equal length.
Lamb motors have recently altered the aloy castings of the support plates.
When the motor is worked, the aloy body will distort and the fans will start to run out of balance if the motor is not supported by equal length rods.
John
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I use an ittalian equivalent to the lamb motor and have done so for the last ten years and at a fraction of the cost of a lamb! for a 5.7" three stage motor I think they cost me 339.00 plus vat and delivery,
they last as long as a lamb and are just as powerfull as the standard motor!
I use a service engineer in market lane Dunston tyne and wear, his name is Peter Davies his mobile number is 07977453804 and he does not charge vat
I heard of a guy buying a 7.2" lamb a few weeks ago from a local supplier at a cost of £250.00 plus vat I can buy them for £150.00 plus vat and thats a super vac 1500 watt
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Mistake in the vacume motors! it should of said £39.00 plus vat and delivery
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stuart
where can you buy the italian motors from?
cheers
steve
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Woodbridge commercial 01279 422220 ask for john
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I think I am correct in saying you need to watch how tight you fit the Woodbridge Motors.
I fitted on too tight a few years back and it only lasted a month.
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ian,
why would that be so?
steve
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The second motor burning out is the recurring problem for mcs with series not parallel mounted vac units. If you switch one motor on the other will rev quite well due to the turbine effect of the air passing through. If you then switch the second motor on, the motor will cause the unit to rev even faster. If the motors are mounted parallel as with Alltec and one or two other manufacturers, the motors will run at the correct speed and not tend to disintegrate. I have found that normal running 5.7" 3 stage units will run for 1000 hrs or more without a brush change. I very rarely change 5.7 brushes as by the time the brushes are out the bearings and vanes are about shot anyway. I service one particular machine that has run 5.7s for several years, the owner says that it is due to running the vacs at the end of the job with the lid open to dry things out.
7.2" units are a different matter, the brushes must be checked every 350-400 hrs and very often changed at that time.
You get what you pay for. Cheap motors will not last as long, as a rule, as Lambs, but if they are cheap enough it may pay to fit them and change units sooner.
Trevor
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I would totally disagree with that 1 I have bought these cheaper italian motors from woodbridge since 1997 and each motor last for approx three years without a brush change depending on usage and as far as iam concearned I just replace them rather than change the brushes! Back in 97 i was paying £25.00 per motor I think the lamb equivelent were £97.00 ! ok that was ten years ago and vacume motors have gone up in price since then ! I dont think with these particuler parts you get whjat you pay for rather than greed of suppliers charging what they like for parts ,
I can buy a lamb 5.7" three stage from woodbridge for £57.00 plus vat and delivery
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I used Woodbridge cheaper vacuums in my Ninja
for 6 Years, they are good motors, but are certainly
less powerful than Lamb, not masses of difference
but noticable.
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Definitely there are far more problems with Vac motors in series than in parellel!
We use Cross-American Recoil 3XPS use 2 three stage and also a 2 stage. Our motors each have there own stack pipe and so are practically independent from each other as far as affecting the other adversly. This way they all run cool and at their peak performance.
I believe in series you only increase cfm by 20% under opperating circumstances. In parellel it is 80%With Cross
American's approach testing indicates even more increase in cfm and air velovity. You actually have more opperating lift too because of the increase of pull at the wand on the carpet where every really matters.
Again a side benifit is cooler motors that last longer.
best wishes
Damien71
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Why can't we get a more powerful. single motor, in extraction machines, they must be in use, in some of the powerfull commercial vacuums ????????????????
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the extracta motors are fitted in parallel so work independently of each other, the two i replaced had each done less than 300 hours, and looked clean as a whistle, no residue in the exhaust etc.
I'm convinced they are just poor quality or faulty to start with.
The motors should be designed to be used quite rigorously, and apart from switching them on and off and making sure no foam or water is pulled through them , what else can you do to make them last longer?
only not use them at all ::)
regards
steve
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Just found a motor 1750 watts / 2.35 hp..............how does that compare with the usual ?
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If my memory serves me correctly, the twin vac Extracta's use the older 7.2" vacs in parallel. Same set up as on my Alltec Professional Plus. The service recommendation for the Alltec used to be 350 hours but that sometimes was too long and motors went pop because brushes were worn out. The recommendation then came down to 300 hours, and to be honest, I found this to be borderline too, so I serviced mine at a convenient time after 250 hours. I then went from <1 year vac lif to 4 or 5 year life.
It all makes me wonder whether the carbon brushes on these motors are durable enough. Would I be correct in thinking that our 230 volts requires a harder carbon than the US's 110volt?
I'm told that the 5.7" vacs are much more durable than the larger 7.2's.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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ken,
they are as you've stated,
have inspected the brushes today and the ends were just like crumbled powder, although there was plenty of length left.
Does this seem like the brushes are the problem? - And can i assume that this has damaged the motor beyond repair?
this seems to me a bad problem with so little hours use, and the fact extracta recommend a once a year service, you would think the motors would last the year aswell, esp for the not so technically minded.
Extracta have never recommended replacing or checking the brushes, so perhaps this is something overlooked my manufacturers and suppliers?
It would save at lot of grief and cost in the long run.
regards
steve
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Steve
I'm not too gen'd up on the technicalities of these things, but if the brushes have crumbled, could this have caused excessive arcing? When Trevor Ives services machines, he runs the motors first @ half speed (with 110 volt transformer) to help the brushes bed-in properly to minimise the arcing problem, so that's why I'm thinking damaged brushes could cause a problem.
At 300 hours on my Pro-Plus, the brushes were absolutely shot.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Carpet Guy:
The Vacuum motor you might be referring to is the Lamb Ametek 117500-12.
I bought one of these motors a little over a year ago and it is a screamer. Very powerful.I used in my system and then later loaned it to a friend of mine who uses a Bane Clene Paramount. We have somewhat increased the performance by putting a 2 HP motor in it and ended up turning the Sutorbilt 3MVL vacuum pump almost 1700 rpm and still kept the amps down to around 16. When he added the 117500-12 Premier vac motor it was like a gas truckmount almost. However the motor(Lamb) only went another 20 hours or so when it started sparking. I likely did not put more than 25 hours on it myself.
I asked a person in the buisiness of central vacuum for homes about it and he said that there were problems in the early models . So if you buy one make sure it is one built recently. Definitely don't buy one made in 2005. I have had the most succes with a moderately powerful 5.7 Lamb Vac that operates at 117 inches of water lift sealed. And has a maximum of 100 CFM with no restriction. Of course these motors don't work under these conditions but rather inside an extractor with or without another one and then with hose attached. Go to www.lambametek.com and then to products and look under tagential discharge and you will find most of the motors used by mfgs.
damien71
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Good post Damien...........the motor I found is actually made in Slovenia, but there is a UK distributor, who I will be phoning for info'
I owned a CFR a few years ago which had a single, three stage vac, that was capable of working effecrively, on 150 feet of hose.
Even allowing for the CFR tooling, the power was impressive.
I'm no engineer so can only guess at the possibilities, but a single vacuum, with greater power has more appeal than doubling, or trebling, the number of vac'c