Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: NWH on June 30, 2007, 07:39:36 pm
-
I purchased a backpack this week and got a trolley for it and it looks just as professional as a trolley system i`ve seen advertised for a £1000,this setup in all has cost me £260 the only difference being that it carrys 16ltrs compared to 25.Is it me or has others out there spotted this.
-
Why indeed?
Trolleys appeal to those starting out. Most then move on.
-
Don`t get me wrong Alex i love the van mount and wouldn`t be without it,but i thought i`d get the backpack as i have a few jobs it will come in handy,but a grand for one of those trolleys i reckon people that are buying them must be off there trolley LOL.And by the way when are the telescopic superlites due out please.
-
We have no definite date at the moment. We are still working on a couple of the clamp sizes. Once this is sorted we will then have to schedule a production run of them. All I can say is that I am working with one of the prototypes at the moment and I rank it as one of the world's best poles! Modest aren't I? :)
-
Why pay a £1000 for a trolley.
Who pays £1000 for a trolley?
Kind of a bit of an overstatement that isnt it?
Would you like to list what the seller actually has in the package for this trolley?
-
FREEDOM!
-
Forgot to mention the cheap pole and the RO system that you can pee quicker.
-
So NWH.
Are you stating here that the company that makes and sells the Freedom trolley are ripping poeple off?
-
Is it me or has others out there spotted this obvious rip off.
Are you new to these forums?
I had a bit of a 'run in' with the maker of the Freedom trolly, since it was my opinion that they were over priced and over weight.
They're about 32kg DRY!!! Add 25 litres of water and you've got the weight of a bantam weight boxer on a sack truck (and that's what the system is; a sack truck).
A couple of lads local to me bought a Freedom; one sold it within two months of receiving it.
So in answer to your question; yes; but it's not a 'rip off'; it's just an over-priced sack truck that weighs a lot.
-
What do you think?in your honest opinion would you say that package is worth a £1000,priced separatley those products don`t come anywhere near that figure,exactly how many hundreds of pounds is that trolley worth then?
-
well i made my trolly out of sack trucks complete with pump and varistream 25L barrel bits of hose ect less than 200 quid forgot battery
-
The Freedom trollies may have been 32 kg at one time but they are nowhere near that now. I can't speak for what they used to be like to use but mine is great. Nothing is going to get any lighter than a back pack. I know a couple of lads who use them and think they are fine for what they use them for.
I bought my freedom trolley after going to the makers to get my mate sorted out with a van mount system from them and think that what I paid for it was worth every penny. Also 2 other lads around here have bought the freedom trolley after seeing it in action.
One man's meat can be anothers poison but I think it's way over the top to infer a rip-off going on.
-
What do you think?in your honest opinion would you say that package is worth a £1000,priced separatley those products don`t come anywhere near that figure,exactly how many hundreds of pounds is that trolley worth then?
I think you can get the trolley by itself for around the £600 quid mark; but let's not go down the road of accusing anyone of 'ripping people off'; there'll be overheads in the manufacturing process and marketing that you won't even realise; also why shouldn't someone make a decent profit for a good bit of kit.
But is it a good bit of kit?
In my honest opinion; no.
-
Is it me or has others out there spotted this obvious rip off.
Are you new to these forums?
I had a bit of a 'run in' with the maker of the Freedom trolly, since it was my opinion that they were over priced and over weight.
They're about 32kg DRY!!! Add 25 litres of water and you've got the weight of a bantam weight boxer on a sack truck (and that's what the system is; a sack truck).
A couple of lads local to me bought a Freedom; one sold it within two months of receiving it.
So in answer to your question; yes; but it's not a 'rip off'; it's just an over-priced sack truck that weighs a lot.
very restrained tosh... :)
priced separatley those products don`t come anywhere near that figure,
That can be said of any package. Always better to buy separately. The backpack is without doubt the cheapest way to get into wfp.
I don't think that makes the trolley a rip off though.
-
well said tosh .their is profit n rip off profit.on another forum their was a guy who bought a trolley system .showed me reciepts 1450. had it a few months .then put 250litr tank in van .took pump off trolley .fitted in van with poles etc from trolley system . sold me trolley 6.25.litr barrels n battery 60 quid . he said if he new what he knows now .he would have bought backpack.or diy van system n saved him self .half the price tacky gwent wales . ps he went to some place in barry island wales .for is van system . n all the advice he wanted
-
Tosh says lets not go down the route of them ripping people off,but you can buy the trolley on it`s own for about £600,that sounds a bit like a contradiction to me LOL.
-
very restrained tosh... :)
Thankyou, but...
I have no beef with Andrew or his Freedom trolley; but I do have a well-informed opinion that I'm entitled to share, especially if I think it's of benefit to fellow window cleaners.
I used to help mod this area of the forum and must've deleted at least four posts; maybe more; giving either Andrew or his trolley a good slating.
Praise in public, complain to the supplier was my motto in circumstances like this; but Andrew did push his kit on this forum, so I gave my opinion; that's all.
-
Tosh says lets not go down the route of them ripping people off,but you can buy the trolley on it`s own for about £600,that sounds a bit like a contradiction to me LOL.
NWH,
Stop using that phrase 'rip off'. If you see something priced at 'X amount' and you purchase and receive the goods in working order, then you haven't been ripped off.
-
Calm down,Calm down,joking apart though Tosh there is another well known supplier that sell these trolleys that i know that sell them for the £700 mark,it`s near enough exactly the same product.They manage to sell it at that price and still make a profit.
-
Like I said one man,s meat can be anothers poison.
I think the Freedom trolley is an excellent piece of kit and has proven invaluable to me since I got one. I,ve recently taken on an employee and kitted a van out for him with the trolley and a tank on board using the trolley to power 100 metres of minibore. It's about 95% domestic work and more often than not we use the trolley but when its faster we use the hose. It's dead easy to hook the trolley up to the tank or detach it and chuck a container on.
I originally bought an Ionics system and now know that I could have got basically the same kit cheaper elsewhwre but I dont blame Ionics for the price I paid. I made the decision to buy it after all.
We sell our services at whatever prices we want to and it's up to our custies whether they accept it or not. The same principle applies with manufacturers/suppliers. How many posts do we see on here about people making a killing on jobs they do. I do it all the time if I can. :) I dont make it public though :) ;)
-
Some good comments there Brightclean,it just amazed me how much cheaper you can get setup when you shop around.With the backpack being a 1/4 of the price of the trolley i was just surprised why so many people went for the trolley over the backpack,i think this thread has got Tosh sulking i reckon he`s just brought one LOL.
-
Some good comments there Brightclean,it just amazed me how much cheaper you can get setup when you shop around.With the backpack being a 1/4 of the price of the trolley i was just surprised why so many people went for the trolley over the backpack,i think this thread has got Tosh sulking i reckon he`s just brought one LOL.
OMG has hell just frozen over? lol ;D
Anyway I have my own reasons for choosing the trolley over the back pack. The main one being able to run a tank mount with it. It suits my workload and with it and a tank on board I have the best of both worlds.
1 of the other guys who bought the trolley was using a back pack but had gone through 3 since Jan this year. Mind you he is a heavy handed so and so. The trolley is really very well built so can stand the abuse he gives it.
-
What did he do or how did he treat the backpack to go through 3 of them.
-
Errrr I dont think that the back pack is designed to be constantly dropped from 2 or 3 ft onto the ground. He is a a big guy so just filled it.. picked it up and dumped it outside every window he did lol.
Oh yes of course it was all Shurflo's fault accordin to him lol
-
notice that most only seem to mention just a trolly, no one mentions that you get a 5 stage RO/DI system,
with it, also varistream, and much more, if your great with diy, sure you can save a few hundred quid,
but what if your not, or just to busy to diy a trolley system, we have got to pay for someones time, And remember purefreedoms trolleys are not diy, they are a professional built system. jouk45
-
I purchased a backpack this week and got a trolley for it and it looks just as professional as a trolley system i`ve seen advertised for a £1000,this setup in all has cost me £260 the only difference being that it carrys 16ltrs compared to 25.Is it me or has others out there spotted this obvious rip off.
Why pay a £1000 for a trolley.
So this is a trolley for £1000? . . . . I dont think so!
Be fair
This is not just a bespoke manufactured trolley with pneumatic tyres, with a 100psi pump and flowmaster controller enabling the use of 100mtrs of microbore, a large powered battery in a secure box capable of being flexible enough to turn it into a van supported system, an 18ft pole with a reach of around 23ft topped by a 10'' Vikan brush and a 100 gallon a day 5 stage RO/DI purification unit providing all you need for a start-up system . . . . this is an M&S bespoke manufactured trolley . . . . oh no, wrong advert :)
I hope you get my drift! ;)
What is right for one may not be correct for another but posts with headings like this do no-one any good.
If you have bought one and it fits the bill,fine.
I am sure people can make their own systems. That is their choice. There are a lot of manufacturers out there all trying to make a product and a living. Thankfully the staying power, its functionality and its usefulness over a time will be the arbiter of whether a product is worth the money or not.
-
Sure you can make your own system, (I did,) if you know what to buy. When I was starting out the biggest problem was a lack of knowledge on my part. I didn't know what to buy or where to buy it.
Don't knock the trolley, its got a lot of people started who wouldn't have been able to build their own from scratch. OK so you soon grow out of it, thats progress.
-
Wish someone would manuf an electric drive rolley :(
-
I dislike trolleys. They are not the most efficient or effective way to WFP. They create more work for the user and are generally not a good idea. For a few window cleaners they are a good idea though due to access issues etc. Backpacks are only slightly more useful in reality. Most who carry on WFP'ing for a couple of years will have graduated to proper systems.
What you pay for a trolley is up to you. No one is out to rip you off, just provide themselves with a decent living and you with a professional product. There are lot more expensive trolleys than the Freedom trolley.
You may notice that our firm has never sold trolleys or Backpacks. We could quite easily do so and could make a healthy profit on them. I just do not like selling something that I feel is the wrong product for the job.
Before I get everybody leaping to these products defense, yes I still clean a fair amount of domestic windows, yes I live in Cornwall and have to deal with narrow lanes, bad parking etc, and yes there are a lot of steps, paths and gates. I started with a trolley myself, a very good one, that I bought about 6 years ago. Within 2 months I had built a trailer system as the shortcomings of the trolley were hard to ignore. Within 6 months I sold the trolley to someone else who was starting out himself, within 6 months he had sold it on to someone else who within 4 months took it to pieces to use the parts in a Van-mount system. I wish someone had said to me back then to save my money, think a bit more and kit out a vehicle. I would have saved myself so much work and have given myself about a year's head-start on fully integrating WFP into my window cleaning round. If I had fitted my estate car out with a 125litre tank a pump and hose I would have saved money and been able to clean windows far more quickly.
By the way whilst we are on the subject of prices;
Ionics sell various trolleys, prices below
Duplex DI trolley (basically 2x DI canisters with wheels) = £357.95 + VAT
Cricket trolley (as above with pressure vessel to hold/pump water) = £729.95
Pro-5 access trolley (300ltr) =£4630 + VAT
Pro-7 Mobile Trolley = £4385 + VAT
All of them do their job very well, most of the larger ones are for large commercial premises where they stay on site permanently and get moved to where they are being used for that day.
Makes the Freedom look quite cheap doesn't it?
-
I agree totally Alex
I think within a few weeks of starting out with a trolly most people buy a long length of microbore and a reel to begin using itheir trolley as if it were a van mount. The days of pushing a trolley round to the backs of houses don't last long. But what you learn in those first few weeks is priceless.
-
Im am going to order 1 of these Freedom trolleys Monday - but after reading all these posts the question is do I still go ahead and order one - really confused what to do now? Ain't got the knowlege to build my own! Also do I go for a van mount system or trolley system? :-\ My heads spinning here lol
-
It is just my personal opinion, you can turn a backpack into a trolley quite easily, but you can't really do it the other way around.
-
Wrekin
I think there is a secondhand trolley being offered on this forum at the moment. I wouldn't be put off by all this talk. Trolleys are the way most of us started out.
-
All i can say is that i only started last month , but my freedom trolley has been great and have never and still do not feel that i made a wrong decision. if i had bought items seperately i would still be building my trolley now. surely all you people appreciate that you have to pay for skill manafacture as well as just the bits.
-
Also do I go for a van mount system or trolley system?
The best thing you can do is make the decision based on your round and likely future customers.
Taking a figure of 60 houses on my round 40-ish suit a trolley, about 10 are ideal for a van mount system, with the balance being suitable for either.
People who swear by one system or the other can only be talking in reference to their own situation and nothing more whether it be backpack, trolley or van mount!
I'm waiting for one of those backpack, self floating jobbies as worn by James Bond all those years ago - now that would be good! :)
-
Poor Wrekin must be in a right old pickle by now.
It's really a no brainer. No-one can honestly say that one set up is all things to all men. All have their +'s and -'s HOWEVER.. the freedom trolley is an excellent investment because it is just so versatile. I had just a van mount to begin with and got well fed up of access problems, not being able to park near the property, getting round the back of terraces. The trolley solved them all for me. A lot say they move on from a trolley to a van mount. Some like Vince still say the trolley comes in usefull. Mine certainly comes in usefull. I use it more than the hosereel from the tank now.
The Freedom is a very well thought out and *loody well built piece of kit. It will drive 100 metres of hose with no probs all day long if you need it to but can also be used stand alone as and when best to do so.
If I had known about it when I first went WFP I would have gone for it then just added a tank and reel.
My advice to Wrekin is to just go for it. I saw the deal you have been offered and its a good one. You have a Transit so just add a tank as and when then you will have a set up for any job.
-
Wrekin,
If you have a Transit then you have no space issue which is why most of us started with a trolley.
If it is a question of money then a 500 litre tank in the van with a 100psi pump and 100meters of microbore will do anything you want it to and only cost about £350. Then simply add a backpack for anything you think you will have access problems with for about £160 and you are sorted.
Total cost about £550 plus any poles and water purification you need.
-
I've used a van mount AND a trolley from the beginning. What I have found is that my trolley usage gets less and less as I resist taking on work where I need it. I keep hold of it because it's useful in certain situations still. I don't really need to connect a hosereel to it much. I have a 10m length of hose which I use to connect the van mount to the hosereel. I connect this up to the trolley and pole hose when needed to save having to move the trolley around so much.
-
Wrekin,
If you have a Transit then you have no space issue which is why most of us started with a trolley.
If it is a question of money then a 500 litre tank in the van with a 100psi pump and 100meters of microbore will do anything you want it to and only cost about £350. Then simply add a backpack for anything you think you will have access problems with for about £160 and you are sorted.
Total cost about £550 plus any poles and water purification you need.
Have to say I couldn't agree more with Alex, infact I've been trying to put him off one of these trolleys on a different thread. If he's unsure exactly what he will need to set up his own system I'm sure there are plenty on here that we be more than happy to help, including me!
-
Im am going to order 1 of these Freedom trolleys Monday - but after reading all these posts the question is do I still go ahead and order one - really confused what to do now? Ain't got the knowlege to build my own! Also do I go for a van mount system or trolley system? :-\ My heads spinning here lol
My Advice is to phone Andrew and he will give you unbiased advice, tell him the type of work you have, he will point you in the right direction as to your best needs, if he feels the trolley system is the best for you, he will tell you, if its not right for your needs he will advise you as what would be best, He will not try to sell you something that is wrong for you and your business.
You can't take advise from someone who has never used a Trolley only those who have?
-
Wrekin,
If you have a Transit then you have no space issue which is why most of us started with a trolley.
If it is a question of money then a 500 litre tank in the van with a 100psi pump and 100meters of microbore will do anything you want it to and only cost about £350. Then simply add a backpack for anything you think you will have access problems with for about £160 and you are sorted.
Total cost about £550 plus any poles and water purification you need.
Top advice!
I still prefer just my backpack and working out of a car though.
Don't get me wrong, if I worked by myself I'd do as Alex suggests, but I work mostly with my Other Half and she trads the ground floors as I WFP the first floors.
When I'm really ahead of her, I drop my WFP and trad back towards her. It works for us and I don't have the expense of running two vehicles either.
-
got my freedom trolley second hand, two poles with it lots of containers, several
brush heads and lots of trad gear £600 the lot.
have been working out of car with for past month has been good as gold
trolley not what i would consider heavy and lifting 25 ltr containers is hardly a killer.
like others have said it is extremely versatile am now converting to van only
as i cannot carry the water in car i now need for work.
but i only need to buy a tank and hey! sorted
-
I do all commercial work purchased my troll @ £1150.00 added a few bits and bobs had it over a year now and would not change it for anything, its the bizz why go van mount when this bit of kit will do the same? also any out of the way windows no problem just wheel it out and away you go.
-
I started with a trolley then got a van mount.
But i still use my trolley on the odd job where i may be parked quite a way from the job.
If i started again i would still buy a trolley first as without my trolley some of my work would be awkward.
All window cleaning rounds are differant and they can all be done with a van system but might need either a trolley or backpack for the odd few.
You just need to look at your round and see if any of it will be awkward.
For me i would never use a backpack due to back problems
Paul
-
I built my own trolley system, It can carry up to 50 litres. The hose reel is mounted on it, I don't have to wheel it round the back.
If you have a very compact round, you can't beat it. What's easier, Pushing a trolley for 15 metres to the next house, or moving the van?
If I wanted a van mount I would just stick a tank in the back. Parking is a problem on new compact estates. With a trolley you can forget about it. Dai
-
The Freedom is a very well thought out and *loody well built piece of kit. It will drive 100 metres of hose with no probs all day long if you need it to but can also be used stand alone as and when best to do so.
You must be joking, right!? It's a terrible design. The one we had the varistream was hanging off the back waiting to get smashed off, the battery leaked acid everywhere, extremly heavy, i could go on! The driving a 100 metres of hose is just the pump which is pretty much standard in every WFP setup nothing to do with the trolley.
Its a modified sack truck... there is no design!!
-
No Foxman I am not joking.
Are you sure we are talking about the same thing?
You say "had" Well I've had mine around 3 months and its the latest design. Heavy? No way mate!! If it was anywhere near as bad as you are saying I wouldn't have bought another. Nor would the 3 other guys that I know that have bought it.
I think you are way out of order mate. Get your facts right before you go slagging something off. I say this because I know for a fact that you arent talking about the trolley that they now sell. They dont even fit the varistream to it any more.
-
Brightclean foxman says he has had one and that is his opinion which he is entitled to,one of the only things we have left in this country is free speech.If he wants to as you put it slag it off,that is completly up to him if people companys put there products on sale it`s all part of the game,but you cant put a stop to peoples opinions.
-
haha... these trolley posts always get a good for and against response.
-
Well here we are - its 50/50 really half of you say YES to the freedom trolley the other half NO - my problem is I still gotta setup my business with some sort of water fed pole system and im split right down the middle as what to do? Time is getting on and I still got an empty van :( :-\ :-\ :-[
-
NWH. You are right about free speech.
I just thinks its very unfair to make statements like that about a product which has evolved from it's original form. Which may have been heavy etc but no longer is. Its a bit like me saying that my latest model car is rubbish because an older model was in my opinion.
-
Go straight for the van mount if you can afford it,you`ll want one in the end anyway if all goes well.Then if you find access problems etc look into other options.
-
Brightclean you know i love you really.
-
Well here we are - its 50/50 really half of you say YES to the freedom trolley the other half NO - my problem is I still gotta setup my business with some sort of water fed pole system and im split right down the middle as what to do? Time is getting on and I still got an empty van :( :-\ :-\ :-[
Well mate.. if I were you I would just go get a water butt.. stick it in your van. You can secure them with a bit of rope you know. Get a hosereel from B & Q and a decorators pole.. you can stick a scrubbing brush on the end you know. If you think I am joking I aint.. I've seen set ups like that :p
I've told you my experience and so have others.
You have to make a decision. In any public forum there's going to be different opinions. Go with what you feel is best for you and all the best of luck with it.
-
Well here we are - its 50/50 really half of you say YES to the freedom trolley the other half NO - my problem is I still gotta setup my business with some sort of water fed pole system and im split right down the middle as what to do? Time is getting on and I still got an empty van
I would say look carefully at your round. Consider whether you are going to have access and/or manouvering problems with a hose reel and if so how much. If the problems with manouvering a hose outweigh those of manouvering a trolley then go for the trolley. Your going to need a storage tank in your vehicle anyway to support your trolley so the switch to van mount later if you found you wanted to wouldn't be a big step as the freedom trolley can be used to feed a hose-reel just by reconfiguring your hose connections. But you will still have your trolley for those out of the way properties which most of us seem to have.
This is the route I've taken as many of the properties on my round are way away from the service roads even to reach with a hundred metre hose and I work on my own.
-
I think you are way out of order mate. Get your facts right before you go slagging something off. I say this because I know for a fact that you arent talking about the trolley that they now sell. They dont even fit the varistream to it any more.
No, maybe you should get your facts straight. We've had one and 'the varistream (or whatever it was) was hanging off the back waiting to get smashed off, the battery leaked acid everywhere, extremly heavy' that is a fact
There is no way the design has changed as it's a sack truck!
And if i want to express an informed opinon about something, like you are, i will.
So maybe your 'out of order'.
-
So Mr Foxman.
How long ago did you get your Freedom trolley?
Ive seen the old design one myself and how you can say the design hasnt changed is beyond me ???
-
About 12 months ago.
have you a picture of yours which you can upload to see what differences there are?
-
Hmmm the freedom site is down.
I havent got a pic myself. Have a look at the freedom website sometime.
www.purefreedom.co.uk
-
No joy with their site getting an error message, will be interesting to see if it has changed.
The latest one i've seen was at the Fed show in Blackpool, that was pretty much the same as what we had.
-
Just go on EBAY they have them advertised on there,just tap in window cleaning when on EBAY.
-
Hi , well i have only used a backpack up to now totally,
i get fed up with it and all the messing about with humping and lugging that ,and the water about, filling etc...
so i was going to trolley it up, then i thought .. what for ?
to still pull a trolley around and still keep filling the damn thing up?
even though there are numerous ways to fill a trolley or backpack,
how can that be better than having a huge tank in the van, hose to pole and off you go.....??
it has to be the simplest way barring an odd awkward to get to house etc, where im sure a trolley or bp will be a godsend.
but lets not kid ousrselves that the the most simple way has to be :
Large tank in van.
Pump water to pole
To window.
The End.
-
without a doubt...why would anyone want to fill up all those barrels each morning/night...then lug them into van and keep changing them every few houses...what an absolute pain in the neck!!
As you say...nothing simpler than pull up, take hold of hose, walk to house, clean windows and onto next one or back to van and drive away...
-
i have a van mount but hardly ever use the hose i always use the trolley. The trolley i use is light and versatile. I fill it via a gravity pipe from the tank. Have a look. (thats not me by the way!!)
-
why not just walk your hose round...?
-
Wonder how long that water will last cleaning that conny roof, don't know about you guys but I get through loads when doing them.
-
nice item on ebay paul ;D
-
Personally dont See the point in these trolley systems. was doing a job the other day bloke rolls up 3 doors down with this red trolley looked like it had bmx wheels on it took him an age to get out the van and get started up, just thought whats that all about WOW
-
Isn`t it expensive using champagne instead of pure water?
Gerry.
-
LOL,Wheres that blokes neck gone.
-
i do 4 average house before i need to refill doing upstairs only and it only takes 30 seconds to refill. Im a lot quicker with it than with my hose reel. Many dont want to use a trolley or back pack but i wouldnt be without it. I went for this one because of how light it is.
When i got my system i thought i would use the hose reel with my van mount system more than i do, but the trolley makes my life easier.
-
You don't have to spend a great deal. Have a look at Matt's DIY site and make one yourself. The pump box on mine just hooks on the trolley, and would run a van mount just as easily, Twin pole carriers are a big help. I really wouldn't want a van mount for my round. Dai
-
yep i think its down to personal choice. I opted for both to cover myself. I mainly do houses so the trolley is ideal. What turned me off to many trolleys is thier weight which is why i bought mine. I can lift it in and out when full of water no problem.
-
I can lift it in and out when full of water no problem.
This is fair comment, but on my round I only lift it out once a day.
I do have a backpack for the few stand alone jobs, even this is on a shopping trolley frame. Dai
-
LOL,Wheres that blokes neck gone.
Head and shoulders! lol
-
why would you pay 1000 for a trolley system ?? ?? ive never got that either
all the bits are "Plug in and use " on the cleantech site, they do a ready made pump box which you just connect the hoses to, attach it to a sack truck and put the hose in a 25 L barrel
E.mail for a link tot he DIY site
<---------------- it will guide you though the whole process