Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jouk45 on June 19, 2007, 12:30:33 pm
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this is just another though i had, i have seen a few topics lately about electrocution from our poles if we touch any live wires ect, why don't they just fit flexible earth straps to the base of the poles, then if electricity should hit the pole, it goes straight to earth, like the one picture below,
they come in any length
what you think jeff, or can that not be done
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/joeuk_bucket/C264921-01.jpg)
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I need to see the picture Joe, ;D ;D
But electricity will always go the quickest route to earth and just reading your post, it won't work, the electricity will still travel through the human body, unless your insulated from the pole.
Anyone who's worried about it Just wear rubber gloves, you hands may stink at the end of the day, but at least you'll be around to smell them. ;D
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jeff i know we would still get some of the shock, but would the earth strap not take it all to ground
and less shock to the body, i hate wearing gloves ;D
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Unless the window cleaner is thiner than the strap and wearing protection, ie,rubber gloves,rubber soled shoes, most of the electricity will run through the largest mass and the human body is about 80% water :o
Just a small shock is enough to kill.
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One of those things just trailing along the ground would be about as useful as a chocolate fire-guard.
Sorry to be so pessimistic, but just being realistic.
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Here is the real solution, just normal rubber gloves won't work, they need to be of a certain grade. These gloves are designed for electricians to touch wires up to 26,000 volts and still be safe http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/products.php?cat=Electricians%20Gloves
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jeff, I thought women were about 45-55% water and men 55-65% water?
anyway, faradays effect is what this about, electric takes the easiest path, its all about how well the body conducts, or more appropriately, how easy it is for the electric to pass through the body. If you have ever seen the northern linesmen in the US working you can see they work in a chain-mail suit - reason being the suit will conduct the current around the suit and away from the body.
An earth strap would work but would probably present more of a trip hazard than anything else - stick with the gloves!
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yes it is called a faraday suit, also use these gloves, not just any old gloves http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/products.php?cat=Electricians%20Gloves
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thats the gloves I mean Luke, interestingly, electric behaves in the same manner as water, it will take the easiest path.
except there shouldn't be any water coming out of a ocket :o
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do you have some of them gloves?
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jeff, I thought women were about 45-55% water and men 55-65% water?
anyway, faradays effect is what this about, electric takes the easiest path, its all about how well the body conducts, or more appropriately, how easy it is for the electric to pass through the body. If you have ever seen the northern linesmen in the US working you can see they work in a chain-mail suit - reason being the suit will conduct the current around the suit and away from the body.
An earth strap would work but would probably present more of a trip hazard than anything else - stick with the gloves!
You could well be right about the % on the body ;D
Don't forget though John, water and electric don't mix, sweaty hands and body's in the summer, mixed with standing in a pool of water and faradays effect will make the body the easiest path.
The line's man may well wear a chainmail vest, but he doesn't work with water splashing all around him or running down his arms.
I agree with the gloves, but as we all know they get left in the van or they get lost etc.
the only sure protection is a risk assesment.
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Am I missing the point here, but as part of your risk assessment if there's that much chance of electrocution then you don't do the job.
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I suggest a combination of things
1. good rubber boots
2.safety check-each time
3.anti electrocution gloves
4.insulated sections
5.never touching any wires!
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Am I missing the point here, but as part of your risk assessment if there's that much chance of electrocution then you don't do the job.
Ok You see the cable is very old and degrading or a job thats been done by billy the bodger, do you take the chance for a few quid and do the job, or do you think its not worth it? and walk away?? I know I do.
The h&s rules and the laws of this country are very good and are there for our protection, but how often do you see anyone going around and checking the quality of external cables.?
But after all said and done, the chance of being electrocuted is very small and it only takes one W/C for this to happen to and h&s will be looking for more rules to throw at us.
All the above not only applies to wfp work, but ladders work as well.
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Great when theres 2 topics on the go ;D So helen seems to have the one of the best answers- Risk assesment but maybe backed up by the 5 combinations Luke has pointed out ?
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Posted on the other topic about overhead lines.
Pure water is pure and in most cases gone through a di.
Dionised water is what we put in batteries. So far so good in effect the water should be safe.
But as you wash windows other things will get washed away by the water making the water impure and thereby increase the risk of flashover.
For the earth strap to work you will need to drive a earthing rod into the ground and connect it to the pole preferably the top Like a lightning rod on churches etc.
Best of all any chance of electrocution you don't do the job.
If you need to do it the the electricians gloves will be more than adequate though they are quite thick and would work better with the leather gauntlets.
Also on the electric network in thunderstorms the overhead linesmen down tools at the first sign / hearing of thunder and don't carry on until 30 mins after the last bit of thunder.
Darren
Ex High Voltage Fitter
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my pole runs on water not electric so there is no risk of electricution
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??? explain ?
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my pole runs on water not electric so there is no risk of electricution
I bet you'd change your mind if you hit a power-cable (http://www.xs4all.nl/~ernstmul/images/msnbonus/tonguebigeye.gif)
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~ernstmul/images/msnbonus/tonguebigeye.gif)
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~ernstmul/images/msnbonus/tonguebigeye.gif)
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my pole runs on water not electric so there is no risk of electricution
Defies belief, it just does
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:o :o :o Water and Electric don't Mix ::)
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:o :o :o Water and Electric don't Mix ::)
yes they do !
car batterys mix water and electric all the time
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jeff my pole runs on water i dont use electric in it so its not gonna shock me is it even i know that and im not a rocket surgeon
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:o :o :o Water and Electric don't Mix ::)
yes they do !
car batterys mix water and electric all the time
Thats because water is one of the best conductors of electricity, and its not just plain water in a battery it is an electrolite solousion, if this electrolite became exhausted, even with it filled with water it would not work.
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jeff my pole runs on water i dont use electric in it so its not gonna shock me is it even i know that and im not a rocket surgeon
Then let me give you a little science??? in plain old english, because I think this may just save your life.
When your using your pole that runs on water, just like all of our poles, you are soaking the ground around you and maybe, just maybe, your getting a little wet your self,
Now lets say you accidently touch an overhead power cable even if your say 6'' away from it, the electricity can ark (thats Jump) that 6'' hit your wet brush, the electricity can then travel down your pole and ELECTROCUTE you, even more so if your stood on wet ground.
Now I hope you can see, were not talking about what our poles run on but what comes out of them and working near electricity.
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Theres one born every minute ;D
Or maybe a village is missing an ejit.
Sorry, and I mean that, but get real, please.
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It's good to see this debate opening up and peoples ignorance of a very real threat.
If anyone is interested I can try and get the clearances distances of the different range of electricity
Anorak I know but it might just save someones life.
In my old job, I used to work in compounds upto 132,00v. I knew the safety clearances and it still made me nervous in certain substations.
I once had a near miss. I pulled a small fuse from a LV pillar. The wire from the back touch the busbars and flashed over. Luckily i didn't get a shock and just had some carbon burns on my hand.
The voltage that 99% of you will go near is of this kind. If it doesn't kill you it can really do some damage.
The outside may not look so bad but your insides will look like they've had a flesh eating bug over your organs.
I know the safe distances and I wouldn't risk going near them.
Is it really worth a few quid.
Darren
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It's good to see this debate opening up and peoples ignorance of a very real threat.
If anyone is interested I can try and get the clearances distances of the different range of electricity
Anorak I know but it might just save someones life.
In my old job, I used to work in compounds upto 132,00v. I knew the safety clearances and it still made me nervous in certain substations.
I once had a near miss. I pulled a small fuse from a LV pillar. The wire from the back touch the busbars and flashed over. Luckily i didn't get a shock and just had some carbon burns on my hand.
The voltage that 99% of you will go near is of this kind. If it doesn't kill you it can really do some damage.
The outside may not look so bad but your insides will look like they've had a flesh eating bug over your organs.
I know the safe distances and I wouldn't risk going near them.
Is it really worth a few quid.
Darren
Darren
Any type of info you can get and add to this will be beneficial to us all.
I also think its now opening a few more eye's to the potential dangers we all face, not just wfp users but ladder users as well.
I watched a friend die in front of me, when he was working on the elecrtrical system of a helicopter and that was an 18v system :o No there is no typo eror 18v, this has made me more aware of electricity at any voltage.
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Haven't got my old safety books anymore as I don't ever intend on going back to that industry.
Will phone a friend tomorrow and hopefully get some distances.
If i can add some photos i will try
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Haven't got my old safety books anymore as I don't ever intend on going back to that industry.
Will phone a friend tomorrow and hopefully get some distances.
If i can add some photos i will try
Thanks darren
Everything helps
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so jeff1 your saying if i touch one of those wires i could die!
I thought the signs saying DANGER OF DEATH on the electric poles was just to scare people away from stealing electricity.
Ok seriously now, how can people who use wfp for safety reasons have not considered the risks other than falls from height.People bang on about tanks being secured properly, not using ladders because of how dangerous they are etc but do they think about other things.
The problem with health and safety laws are that they draw attention to one danger at a time and people on here as has already been said only seem to concentrate on falls from height. i hate the term risk assesment but anyone who has a brain in their head will continually be assessing the risks around them weather at work or not.
I suspect that some may think that because they use wfp they are totally safe at work!
How about this you stand in the road to clean windows with a pole when with a ladder you could have stayed on the pavement but it must be safer becuase its wfp.
don't mean to offend anyone but feel that there could be a real lack of common sense out there, ok you wear electrical gloves on your hands but does the rest of your body not come into contact at times with the pole whilst working, ok then earth your pole, but would in not be better to prevent yourself coming into contact with electric in the first place.
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I always used to stand in the road of our quiet sleepy town, after all I am only there for a min or two. Then someone pointed out that I would no longer be covered from my PL insurance unless I had the correct signage on the carriage way. You want to see number of the signs your supposed to put out even for two minutes work and permits 100yds either side of a crossing. But thats a different topic. I now stand on the pavement and get wet :'(
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I believe, I don't know, the reason that water is put into batterys is to hold the sulphuric acid. The reason it's pure or distilled is so that non conducting calcium salts don't deposit on the plates.
Where does this idea come from that de ionised water doesn't conduct electricity?