Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mattywig on June 13, 2007, 10:49:32 pm
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I spent 6 grand on an omnipole system 4 years ago and used it for 3 years solid. I have sinced changed back to traditional and have never been happier! I just got sick of hearing the sound of my own voice banging on to anxious customers about pure water technology and h&s stuff, and finally realised that the reason I had made a lot of money using it was that I was very good at talking customers into accepting a system they really didn't like. One day I just decided I'd had enough of doing it, got my ladders out (which never freeze or break down!) and Ive since had the stress free life of satisifed customers and no complaints I used to enjoy! Its also been unbelievable the amount of business that has come my way on the estates I work from disgruntled reach and wash customers sick of having their house drenched, their plants ripped up by hoses, and their windows left dripping wet.
Im sitting pretty until one of us falls of our ladders!!!! Any body else hate reach and wash or is it just me the idiot! ::)
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My customers like it, they are impressed with the results. I think alot of the time its down to the person using the equipment. I have taken on 2 customers that said they hated the WFP system due to poor results from a previous window cleaner. Not had a moan from either of them!!
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I agree with you a useless workman always blames his tools! However by and large my job was of a reasonable standard but customers still just don't like it. I find they dislike how quick it is, and for whatever reason they dont like water covering the front of the house, I just got sick of having to explain myself to people! Have you never found it stressful trying to convince suspicious customers? I must just have low stress threshhold!!!
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I was cleaning a commercial property this week (WFP) when another WC team turned up to clean a nearby office. I joked with one of the guys that it was good of them to turn up to give me hand. He started bragging about how it would only take them 5 minutes to clean their office using WFP. Well 15 mins later they packed up and drove off. When I had finished I went over to look at the windows that they had 'cleaned'. Apalling !!! White streaks on every window. :o This is what gives WFP a bad name. >:(
Steve
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When i or roundbuilders quote, and the customer has agreed to the clean, we leave an explination letter. When we go to clean they have read what will, and what may happen after a first clean. Customers have said to me they were not sure about it at first, but really like the results. I picked up a customer 3 weeks ago, a b&b, who recommended us to a friend up the road, then after this clean he recommended me to 2 of his neighbours which i have now got. They said they were not sure but the original customers sold it to them!! I tell people its quicker as we dont have to climb ladders, and we clean all the window not just the glass. Im upfront and honest with people from the start, tell them if they want us as a regular cleaner we will come all weathers and wont be turned away as we are a business ect ect, get concerns out of the way about the system and how we clean before they ask. I have found, for me to, be the best way.
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After ten years of using pure water we gave up on it as it didn't suit a large majority of the work we do, It was great when it worked but too often it didn't and the system itself required constant maintenance
Having read this site for about a year and gaining some useful knowledge that wasn't around when we did it , I wouldn't mind doing it again on a limited basis with a trolley system or a backpack which does not take up much room and purely on domestic as our commercial customers are in very congested areas wher there would not be room to use a 70-80ft pole and IMO rope work is much easier anyway as our H&S rules aren't as restrictive
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I don't get any complaints for wfp anymore just compliments now. Not saying I do a perfect job every time but fortunately if I do make a mistake it's not noticed. I lost a handful in the first 3 months but now I'm gaining work I would never have done trad. I do keep the pressure up high and give all the windows a good soaking and the customers just seem to have accepted the wetness of it all.
I think being able to sell the idea to your customers is a good thing not a bad thing. I get customers telling me how good it is now.
I wouldn't go back to trad as my knees were starting to go, I work with my wife so doing ups all day most days was getting to them. Wfp is a way for me to stay a wc and not have to hassle about training up as something else.
Simon.
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mattywig
You do have some very valid points in this post, between the window cleaner, the customer, the job, trad or wfp, there are so many varients that nothing will ever be black or white. I'm wfp & trad & am realistic enough to know that both methods have many up & down sides. It's having the sense to know when to use which method & how to price accordingly. I'm not one to spend an hour at a job wfp just to prove it can eventually be done when i can guarantee the result in 15 mins trad. There may well be people who's whole round can be done wfp but for most i think it is unrealistic (unless you drop all the none wfp jobs). but to be honest some of my best paying work is trad only & i'm certainly never going to drop them. From my veiw it's better to have both methods to hand & know when to use which.
One point i will make is that in the last 4 years the wfp equipment has improved ten fold. For example, for me, buying a carbon facelift pole & quality rectangular brush + a swivel joint has had a better impact on my work in the last 8 months than going wfp in the first place 3.1/2 years ago. I've come to realise that the pole, brush & jets is the most important part of any wfp kit & i'm now wfp'ing so much more work that i just couldn't get to come up good with my old crap fiber-glass pole & old, worn out oval vikan brushes.
So if you're still using old poles & brushes it may be worth considering the above comments as they realy are so much better now.
tony
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got 2 vans with pole systems and customers still prefer trad!
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Thanks Tony I have noticed that there is a lot more new gear about and I would never rule out trying it again. I do think that old fashioned people are hard to convince of something new (even though its over 40 years old!) and Ive had enough of trying! I went into window cleaning to escape a very stressful job and just find wfp more stressful than traditional which oddly I find quite theraputic!!! Thanks for the advice on new gear though.
matt
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I think it's the speed which can upset some customers. If you've spent 45 mins cleaning a house trad the customer feels they've got their monies worth. If the next time you turn up and wfp the same job in 10 mins they don't.
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What a bunch of whingers!!!
Sorry I must be using a different system from you guys because for me WFP has completely changed my life. Yes I make more money but most importantly for me it allows me more time off to spend with my kids. I could easily manage on 3 good days a week now so I just take time off when I want because I know I can easily catch up.
As for the results I lost the sum total of 1 customer when I started 12 months ago & that wasn't because of the quality of my work she just didn't fancy her windows getting wet (not sure what she's doing today as it is chucking it down in Warrington)
Mattywig you joke you will be alright till one of you falls of their ladders, well I tell you what you won't be laughing if & when that happens, been there, done it, bought the T Shirt, won't ever do it again!!
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I totally agree with the above WFP is for us and not the custy, if they don't appreciate your service wether 10 mins long or 45 mins long then replace them! there are many other people that appreciate a good service
If i get a "Jesus that was quick!" i simply reply "thats why we have the tools for the trade, and it costs us a damn site more in maintenance and running costs than a mop and blade"
thay soon get the point !
i have to say that the results are also fantastic, as long as you take your time and rinse well, this only takes a few more seconds so i don't know why people rush and get shoddy results.
at the end of the day when you screw something into a wall would you rather use a screw driver that will take you 5 minutes or a power drill that takes 2 seconds i know which one i'd rather use!
the right tools make light work of a tough job!
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Loads of points here good and bad!
Trad in the wrong hands can get bad results
WFP in the wrong hands can get bad results.
Offering a service to customers and not explaining your methods leads to difficulties late on.
Not "selling" your services to the customer can lead to difficulties later on.
Have found that in the past 10 months of new customers all are aware of WFP, all expect it if they have suitable windows and hardly anyone now comments abouts ladder usage. We have work which is not suitable to WFP, so we trad aswell.
When we switched to WFP we didn't lose any because of WFP. We offer a call back service within 24 hours if results are not good and the only people that use this are the "over fussy" ie there is a cobweb across my window type!
We employ and to be honest whilst they are on the ladder usage work the stress level of possible falls are far worse than explaining to customers why we use WFP. Again if the customer is unhappy with a service, they do have the option of going elsewhere if they want, that happens in every walk of life, but if they hang on to you and complain every month, I guess you have what we know as serial whingers!
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I've had the odd sarcy comment about it being so much quicker, when am I going to reduce my prices?, my answer is when I've recouped the 1000s of £s it has cost me to buy all my equipment!!
My other answer is OK I will knock X amount off but I'll have to put that same ammount back on as you now get your frames cleaned monthly!!
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as said, your obviuosly using it wrong, i never have any complaints, had a handful in the beggining but not now
i spend time and do a good job, better than any trad cleaner
i put a post on here the other day, i had a old couple that i had bee doing for 3 months, but they were never in, the 4th time they were in and i saw the pole and how quick i was and came running out "your not our window cleaner, youve never finished, we want someone to polish them"...bla bla bla
anyway, the next month i missed them out, the old chap came out and couldnt apologise more and that he was wrong, then the lady also came out and couldnt apologise more...
speaks for itself really, use wfp properly and you WILL get good results, rush and dont use it propeerly and expect to get a crap job, as with anything
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I guess you have what we know as serial whingers!
We have a 3 strike system then we drop! complain 3 times in quick concession then we say we won't be back.
if someone has a genuine complaint then fair enough but you get to see who is genuine and who is on a power trip!
the amount of times people have complained that they have spots and there on the inside, others have genuine complaints but are mineral deposits that need further attention, we sort it out then everything is fine.
we never GET A COMPLAINT DOWN TO POOR WORKMANSHIP TAKES A WHILE TO MASTER BUT ONCE YOU KNOW I WOULD PUT IT AGAINST A MOP AND BLADE ANY DAY!!!!!
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Doh! must of hit the caps lock! ;D :-[
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WFP is here to stay whether we like it or not; there are
only two trad lads left in area where I cover and we do
second + third storey work for one of them . WFP is not
perfect but used properly it does the job right and its
safer.
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Hi I have had wfp for 2 years and it is hit and miss.
Before wfp I never lost a client and grew very quickly.
Since going wfp have lost many customers.
I originally thought wfp was for commercial jobs only but now find everyone is doing domestic with it as well.
I prefer to walk away from a building knowing I have done a great job but that cannot happen with wfp.
I am now doing more and more trad but just charge more.
I have picked up 12 jobs this week alone where the clients have bombed their wfp window cleaner to get us to do them trad.
You have to bend to your clients needs at the end of the day so as long as I am not breaking wah then I will continue to please them.
Some will say there is an alternative method to ladders (wfp) but when clients are continually getting bad results then surely wfp is not an alternative to ladders if used correctly.
I do commercial with wfp but take longer to ensure a good standard
Thanks Robbie
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Just a little about my customers....with the exception of 1 customer (couple in their 70's) the customers that I have have shown very little intrest in how their windows are cleaned just that they want them cleaned without any fuss or bother...I think if I could clean them using moist babywipes they would not care.
They seem to be more instrested that they can pay via internet bank transfer, I clean on the day I say I clean and that I am not Turkish or Polish....a bit of an odd one, despite me being a foreinger here in Holland that is ok but not if I am Turk or a Pole...no offcence meant to anyone, this is just a pure fact.
I do not think that most people care how we clean, as Steve. K once wrote 'were just the window cleaner,once were gone, were forgotten'.
As for trad, I am now doing some windows trad as I fond some are just easier to do that way, instead of blindly using wfp for all, I now use a variation depending on the situation...as I now use the backpack/van mount/trad....it horses for courses. Best tool for the job at that time is the chosen tool.
The WFP/Trad debat is boring beyond belief...we are all window cleaners and who really cares who uses what....I have next to no work this week, yet next week I am chock'a'block and earn very good money...so who cares...it's the end result doing a good job for money...move on to the next, repeat as required....
Cheers
Dave.
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Just go up your ladders and look at the windows you wfp. Like brand new windows (esp white upvc).
Good job.
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ive always found that if you clean a window properly with WFP you dont get any problems, its when you try to rush that you get comebacks (there are the odd few exceptions however such as old wooden windows that tend to streak if your not careful).
when i set up a few years back with WFP i did think what am i doing as many of my customers didnt like it. however the majority of them wouldnt go back to traditional because they like the job it does..........but not everyones going to like it i suppose!
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you can't please all the people all the time, only some people most of the time.
it has turned into a wfp vs trad debate, personally i have never had any problems, never had people moan about the results. I had one lady once say she prefers them blade things i asked if our results were no good, she said everything was fine, results fine but she just prefered the blade.
don't know why if the result was fine but hey, can't please them all!!
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I clean on the day I say I clean and that I am not Turkish or Polish....a bit of an odd one, despite me being a foreinger here in Holland that is ok but not if I am Turk or a Pole...no offcence meant to anyone, this is just a pure fact.
Dave
Just out of interest who did you end up living in Holland?? Wgat was the story behind that. Tell me to *** off if you think I'm being too noisey but I find that interesting. Any language problems.
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Qwert as with most things...a woman is normally behind it all as is the case with me....Language is not a problem but I do not canvass as my skills are not that good with the 'ol double dutchness' but I have to admit we grow each and every week...so not too bad...sorry to all for hijacking the thread.
Cheers
Dave.
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AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
SHUTUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm getting sick of people saying they leave bad results with wfp!!!
Today I did about 12 houses and with the lovely sun and wind they were drying very quickly which made me walk back to the start and check them.
Not one spot!!!!!! or run
Perfect. Couldn't be better.
Oh........... a post above (cant remember which one?) said it's stressful being wfp!
Stress???? If you cant handle a few complaints here and there and a few leaks in the system you shouldn't be self employed or fit to run a business. Come ashore!
WFP is great in the right hands (my hands that is, after seeing beautiful results on every single window all day long)
Oh..... had a lady stop in the street today and was very interested in the system and set up. She even had a look in the back of my van to see how it worked.
Anyway I called at her house just before I came home and give them a clean. She just sent a email saying how pleased she was with the results. She couldn't believe it. Over the moon. And that was a first clean!
I can now get a first clean to come up perfect.
Trad is just as good but harder work. Thats all.
Wfp is the way forward
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I agree with you a useless workman always blames his tools! However by and large my job was of a reasonable standard but customers still just don't like it. I find they dislike how quick it is, and for whatever reason they dont like water covering the front of the house, I just got sick of having to explain myself to people! Have you never found it stressful trying to convince suspicious customers? I must just have low stress threshhold!!!
If they seem unconvinced, I just tell them that I researched it thoroughly and it cost me thousands of pounds to make the investment. Sometimes I get them laughing. I say words to the effect that a few customers seem to think I switched to WFP just to annoy them and that if I REALLY wanted to annoy them, I could do so far more cheaply. Giving them a laugh sometimes wins them over but you have to select which customers you try that line on.
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Only 2 replies have had any negative feedback I think I will look at the latest gear on the market and give it another go. How do you manage to get over people bak gates when they are padlocked without a ladder? That would be my biggest problem as I am 18 stone and not the most agile climber in the trade!!!! ;D
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carry a ladder or don`t do them...
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How do you manage to get over people bak gates when they are padlocked without a ladder?
Give them a quick phone call / text the evening before.
Steve
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Only 2 replies have had any negative feedback I think I will look at the latest gear on the market and give it another go. How do you manage to get over people bak gates when they are padlocked without a ladder? That would be my biggest problem as I am 18 stone and not the most agile climber in the trade!!!! ;D
Personally I don't think you need to look at spending more money on yet more gear, you need to change your view of WFP by using it again & gaining confidence in it. If you still feel iffy about it why not book yourself on to one of the many courses available or better still, spend a couple of hours with someone & see how they work. Sure there must be someone in your area on this forum.
But don't let all that expensive gear sit in your garage, what a waste!!!!!!!!!