Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: stevegunn on June 08, 2007, 07:10:33 pm
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Just dropped my woolsafe membership have I done the right thing?
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Badges mean nothing, its you that the customer employs, not your fancy logo`s
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Hi Steve
How many custard know what woolsafe is?
How many carpet cleaners know what woolsafe is?
Dave
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What is wool ?
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Baaaa ;D
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When I first started looking at the woolsafe approval system, I thought that the fact that you had to have 5 years experience was ridiculous. I decided there and then that I was not interested in getting woolsafe approval if they dictated membership on how long you had been doing the job, not how good you were at it.
I remember an old boss of mine said on employing good staff:
"Never pay for age, never pay for length of service and never ever pay for sex!"
He was a mackem!
Yes, Steve, I think you have done the right thing
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Lionheart's spot on Steve,as I said to you in Harrogate going for a curry, why wait till you have 5 years experience and let people on the loose on wool carpets just doesnt make sense . Why not teach people from the start as everyone advises to get training from the NCCA ect. If it is good enough for the NCCA and IICRC why not Woolsafe?. Do they approve of people going out untrained on wool for 5 years and doing damage , to me thats not being very woolsafe ??? . They wont be getting my money after 5 years in the business.
tihson
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Steve
Would your bank balance be more heather than before then YES!
Corgi registered doesn’t make you a plumber. :'( :'(
Paul
Something you Blitz meteorically speaking trashed is trashed customer know this hopefully! ;)
Len
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In a great many cases (certainly not all) it is the newcomer to the industry who has undergone some form of professional training who tends to be more careful and follow the basic rules... its after a while the bad habits begin to creap in. Those who do not take any sort of initial training tend not to be around for too long
I can see where Woolsafe are coming from and if you look at some of the posts on the various forums you too, if you are honest with yourself, will also able to see why.
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Hi Steve,
Back to your original question, how much work did you get from being Woolsafe approved ?
If as I suspect it was zero, then financially a good move.
However some like to be part of organisations as it gives confidence, although you don't seem to lack this ;)
Corgi is about the only trade organisation which seems to have any meaningful public profile and this is only because it is compulsory for gas , you do not need it for general plumbing.
Cheers
Doug
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You can use the manufacturer for guidance on what is, or is'nt safe to use on wool and it's not just products that carry the logo...................eg, Alltec's excellent powder was granted woolsafe status, but they decided the ongoing, annual cost from woolsafe was, a rip off and decided to discontinue registration..............the product, however, remained the same product and is obviously safe to be used on wool.
I made the mistake " many years ago "of adding woolsafe to an advert, which was picked up by a local competitor. What I failed to realise, at the time, was, although I was using woolsafe products you had to have personal registration, also.
I've always felt such memberships to be more of a cost / restraint, than a benefit.
So..................how can you get a "safe to use this company " message accross to the public....
You need a memorable logo, simple message, low cost, but qualified membership.
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paul dont be sheepish!
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From a cost saving point of view good move, if it didnt provide any direct work.
From a marketing point of view bad move, if you rely heavily upon marketing for your work.
I make membership of these types of organisations work for me not the other way round.
Im not a member of woolsafe although i tell my customers the products I use are woolsafe and have been passed by the woolsafe organisation.
Mark
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Derek
Did consider joining till I called up their web site, can’t see Julie of chemspec listed on their approved list of cleaning agents. ??? Is it only about training if so Chris (aka spindle2k) needs help wand technique other wise he will be an old man very soon. ;D
Mark
What products are they? :D
Len
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Len
I was a member of Woolsafe in the early days in fact I went on their session to become a Woolsafe Trainer as did a few other people...Julie at Chemspec took up the Woolsafe training and ran with it...still does
Although not a member these days, like Mark, I do use chemicals that certainly fall within the Woolsafe criteria...most are Woolsafe approved
I hope you are keeping well by the way ;D
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Woolsafe never brought me any work but like Mark says its a good marketing tool but I feel you are just paying to display a logo which means nothing to joe public.
I did not receive monthly newsletters just quarterly ones printed on A4 paper not professionally done like the NCCA ones.
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Derek
Very well thanks (some times not enough hours in the day/night) hope all is well with you and family
Is it all about low ph or low temp, think quality of co2 plays an important roll.
Just recruited a financial adviser/expert, quoted some names reply WHO, that cost me £100, word of advise to newbie’s run it by wife/girlfriend even your mother. :D
Len
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I have never had a customer ask me if the process I use is woolsafe.
On the other hand, I have had custy's say, this is a very expensive carpet. This is when you step in and say....the process I use is safe and kind for wool.
I think that, as long as you have a professional image and they are confident about you, there will not be a problem.
With all the info available ont tinternet these days and my working experience, I would never consider a Woolsafe cource myself.
That said, if your a newby and want reasurance, theres no harm in going on any coarse.
John
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Hi everyone,
WoolSafe, and its approved carpet maintenance products, training, membership and promotion, has been discussed in this Forum in the last couple of months. Allow me, as founder and MD of The WoolSafe Organisation, to put the record straight about these issues.
1. WoolSafe Approved products
There are more than 50 WoolSafe chemical licensees worldwide, including 14 in the UK. Many manufacturers have been with WoolSafe since it (officially) started in 1991; others have joined and then dropped out for a variety of reasons.
It does NOT cost “10’s of £1000’s” for a manufacturer to get accreditation on a product. In fact, with the license (£300), testing (aver. £500) and initial registration/listing (£105) this amounts to £905 for one and £2115 for 3 products. Annual re-registration for 3 products costs only £1110. Peanuts compared to, say, one advert in a trade magazine.
Manufacturers constantly have to adjust the formulations of their products because of government legislation, raw material supply issues, improved performance, more attractive fragrances and so on. Some changes can have a marked, and unforeseen, effect on the overall performance of the chemical, as WoolSafe have found several times in the past. Past accreditation says nothing about the product now.
There are currently well over 200 WoolSafe-approved carpet care products in 14 product categories, covering almost all the types of product a professional carpet cleaner is ever likely to need. All products are checked once a year to ensure that they continue to meet WoolSafe’s standards (as set out in WS 1001). These standards are based on years of research of the real-life requirements of wool carpets and rugs, and the best way they are cleaned, maintained, protected, etc. They cover both product safety AND performance (see www.woolsafe.org).
One more thing: just because a manufacturer says a product is safe to use on wool does not necessarily mean this is the case. A chemical manufacturer who wants to have its products tested for WoolSafe approval is given all the information they need regarding tests and performance requirements. Despite this more than 20% of products submitted fail to meet the standards!
If you want to know more about why a product with a pH of 7 can be unsuitable for wool, and one with a pH of 10 can be WoolSafe approved, ask us or, by attending a WoolSafe training course, learn this and much, much more! And it only costs £120 (£60 for additional members of same company).
2. WoolSafe Certified Operators
To become a Cert Op carpet cleaning companies have to meet the following requirements:
have received professional training by one of the recognized organisations in carpet and upholstery cleaning;
are members of a recognised professional or trade association related to the cleaning industry;
have been a carpet & upholstery cleaner for at least 5 years;
have attended a WOOLSAFE training course and passed the exam;
meet other requirements relating to their business and professional associations;
use WOOLSAFE-approved products whenever they clean or maintain wool or wool-rich carpeting.
For us this covers all the bases. However, we DO have some members with less than 5 years experience. They were accepted as Probationary Members on the basis of their obvious expertise, professionalism and enthusiasm for the job. None have disappointed so far.
Annual WoolSafe membership is only £120, plus a one-off £60 registration and listing fee. Many pay less because we have a loyalty bonus scheme.
3. WoolSafe promotion
We are in the middle of a massive effort to promote the WoolSafe Mark, Certified Operators and Registered Inspectors to both commercial/industrial customers and clients and consumers. Since October 2005 articles featuring WoolSafe have appeared in 70 trade and consumer magazines nationwide. We know from the enquiries we receive in our office and from contact with industry and carpet cleaners at trade shows, that the message is getting home.
4. Green carpet cleaning
WoolSafe is addressing that too. We are working with two specialist organisations, Green Seal and EcoLogo, to encourage our chemical partners to ‘green’ their chemicals. A number have already responded (Host and Chemspec in the UK, many more in the US) and more are sure to follow.
Regards,
Paul Bakker
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straight from the horses mouth :D :D
I love it when we get good answers like that it cuts out all the BS and answers all the posts which are just peoples opinions but are posted as though they are facts.
Mike
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I can only speak of my own experiences of being a Woolsafe Certified Operator, but the end result is positive and beneficial to my business.
Similar to NCCA Membership, Joe Public is not typically aware of most trade associations and similar. As far as I am aware, the only trade association that the public will be aware of is ABTA, I certainly cannot think of any outside the flooring/cleaning industry.CORGI, as far as I can gather from their website, are not a trade association , but:
"CORGI is the national watchdog for gas safety in the United Kingdom.
Our goal is to make people safer when they use trades people. We strive to improve standards in the industry and help you find and use safe and competent trades people. "
For me, Woolsafe Membership, like NCCA, is something to sell to and educate your customer/prospect about. In other words, it starts out as a sales tool which brings benefits to yourself and the customer.
When I enrolled, I sent out letters to most carpet mills in the UK informing them of my new Woolsafe Certified Operator status. The response was encouraging and continues to provide me with some work. Some carpet mills will not consider using or recommending any carpet cleaner who is not a Woolsafe Certified Operator.
I've recently renewed my membership and will continue to do so next year.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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I'm glad to see there is sensible flexibility in the 5 years thing.
Lets face it there are plenty of idiot cc doing the same wrong things for 20 years, while there is someone with a years experience who have applied diligently his training and learned from his 12 months on the job.
ps would you get kicked out if a you had a major blacktop situation and agreed with custy to Blitz it?
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Len
Spitfire advanced although after reading Pauls post Im not 100% sure its Woolsafe approved or just Alltec 'woolsafe' 'recommended'.
Good product though even on nasty polyprop.
Personally i will use woolsafe products/techniques if it gets the desired results but a 8 year old neglected wool carpet sometimes needs to be nuked to get it looking clean and i feel any detrimental effect a cleaning solution would have is outwayed by the damage done over the 8 years of neglect.
Mark
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Hi Guys
Thanks to Paul Bakker for giving us a few details about his organisation.
I would like to see the CC related organisations promote themselves more through this forum , as I'm sure this is the best way of having a sensible debate on a level playing field.
Cheers
Doug
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Through the Woolsafe booklet that is given out to all the carpet retailing outlets with a list of all the woolsafe approved operators , i have now teamed up with carpet retailer who passes on to me all their cleaning enquires and also advertises my company in their shop window which has now become a major source of quality leads for my company and most unexpected.The training course is top notch and one of the most worthwhile courses i have been on,so for me it has definatly worked and has paid for my membership for the next 30 years. :D I would just like to add that i am one of those that has not had 5 years experience but have been self-employed for 17 years with proof of business.
Mark
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Well done Mark.
Rather than sit back and wait and see what membership will bring you, you've gone out and made Woolsafe work for you.
In two weeks time, I have a £500+ job. The lady did her research on-line and found me on both NCCA and Woolsafe sites. This gave me a big advantage when it came to closing the sale. Price was never an issue, madam just wanted to feel secure that she had called upon a high quality tradesman :)
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Paul Bakker
WOOLSAFE approved products for carpet cleaning
Click here for the most up to date list
One of the companies I buy from quote approved by the “Woolsafe” Organisation for use on Wool and Wool-rich carpets. Unquote and this company are not newbie’s in this field and use your logo. Do I see a court action or is it generic stamp of approval 8)
Mark R
Thanks now I know what to use ;)
Ken
With the up most respect what products do you use, as I can’t see any but horror on their UK web site. Guild of master craftsmen/safe T you know what!
Back too Paul B
(Regular cleaning will extend the life of your carpet and maintain its appearance. Vacuum clean regularly and thoroughly, which removes gritty dirt that can damage the fibres.)
Can you give us the pro’s an insight to what vacuuming machine is the best for wool carpets; you don’t seem to cover this on your web site, very important methinks first line of defence. ::)
I don’t expect a reply to this as one businessperson to another :D
What if find ironic is they are using my sign Aries the ram never a sheep to the slaughter ;D
Len
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Len
I use quite a few different Woolsafe Approved products from various leading manufacturers. I also find them to be suitable for most day to day soiling on synthetic fibres. These days, I'm loathed to mention specific brands unless asked an opinion of a particular product/system. But I am of the opinion that most cleaning products produce at least good results if used appropriately as part of an effective system. To mis-quote "The Pig": All cleaning solutions are equal, but some solutions are more equal than others
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Ken
Have to say I snort a lot but the cleanest animal!
Are you using any of the listed products on woolsafe UK if not you are deceiving your clientele shame on you.
Do the ncca endorse WS if so why!
len
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Yes Len
As I stated, I use Woolsafe Approved products for virtually all my work, whether natural or synthetic fibres.
As for the NCCA, their teaching is generic and they don't recommend or endorse any products. But the NCCA training tells us to use suitable cleaning solutions for the task in hand. This means that when cleaning wool, you use solutions that are suitable for cleaning wool. It's of no use whatsoever to get a carpet really clean using, for example, SuperSuds Mega pH pre-spray if you end up bleeding the dye or shrinking the carpet.
Safe and happy cleaning :)
Ken
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Like Uncle Kenneth ... I use chemicals that are within the Woolsafe criteria for the vast majority of my work
I find that by following the basic principles of cleaning I don't need to use high pH chemicals or even high heat
To coin a phrase often used by someone (I can't remember the fellows name ;))
'Safe' and happy cleaning
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Hi everyone,
I am replying to 3 questions/comments over the last few days:
Use on non-WoolSafe chemicals
WOOLSAFE appreciate that there will be situations, particularly in the commercial environment, where rather extreme measures have to be taken – in consultation with the client, of course- to get the right cleaning result. In such cases chemicals that are not Woolsafe-approved may have to be used, which is possible provided the pile is rinsed thoroughly afterwards and left in the correct pH condition that prevents colour bleeding. Failure to do so will lead to all sorts of problems – and one client less.
Using a high pH chemical such as Blitz (pH 12-12.5) may not cause colour bleeding when first used. But the internal pH of the wool fibres will be changed from around 4.5 - 5 to 5.5 - 6. When you next clean that same carpet with Blitz the pH will move further: to 7 or even 7.5. Maybe still no visible colour bleeding will occur. But the next time… bang, there it goes!
Use of the WoolSafe Marks
All WOOLSAFE Marks are Certification Marks and protected by law. Unauthorised use is not allowed and will be suppressed by all means at our disposal. This is the official position:
The WOOLSAFE Mark, a registered certification mark, and the WOOLSAFE name are owned by The WOOLSAFE Organisation and used by them and by WOOLSAFE licensed suppliers of carpet and upholstery maintenance products to advertise and/or promote WOOLSAFE-approved products.
This Mark and name can ONLY be used on product containers, associated literature and technical information, including the internet, to promote these products.
They CANNOT be granted for use or used by carpet and upholstery cleaning companies to advertise or promote their cleaning and maintenance services on leaflets, advertisements, websites, letterheads or any other method of promotion or advertising.
The WOOLSAFE Certified Operator Mark is a certification mark, owned by The WOOLSAFE Organisation, and this mark and the WOOLSAFE name can be used by them and by accredited carpet and upholstery cleaning companies to advertise and/or promote carpet and upholstery cleaning and maintenance services. Use of this Mark can also be granted to carpet mills, retailers and others for display in maintenance literature to promote professional carpet cleaning and the services of Certified Operators.
The WOOLSAFE Registered Inspector Mark is owned by The WOOLSAFE Organisation, and this mark and the WOOLSAFE name can be used by them and by carpet inspectors registered by them to advertise and/or promote carpet inspection services. Use of this Mark can also be granted to carpet mills, retailers and others for display in carpet literature to promote the professional resolution of disputes and claims, and the services of Registered Inspectors.
If you know – or suspect –any unauthorised use of the Marks, please inform us immediately and we will take action. The identity of the ‘informant’ will be kept confidential.
My email address: paul@woolsafe.org.
Advice on carpet cleaning machines
WOOLSAFE approval testing only covers chemicals. We do not test cleaning machines or tools and therefore cannot advise on the ‘best machine’ for any particular job. Where a specific piece of equipment is essential for the application of an approved chemical, we make sure that this equipment performs this job satisfactorily.
Having said that, certain types of equipment are more suitable for particular jobs than others. For instance, suction-only vacuum cleaners should be used on wool loop pile carpets with ‘singles’ yarn, to prevent excessive fuzzing.
Keep asking the questions! It's the only way to get to the truth.
Regards,
Paul Bakker