Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: qwert on June 06, 2007, 09:00:49 am
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IF you do frames as an add on extra, hom much extra would you charge on a £10 account with 2 doors and 8 windows??
Is it 50% more??
Thanks
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We include frames and sills in the original quoted price as technically they are part of the window. Plus this is a good seling point when you advertise either "frames included" or "no extra cost for frames" :)
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IF you do frames as an add on extra, hom much extra would you charge on a £10 account with 2 doors and 8 windows??
Is it 50% more??
Thanks
When I worked trad, I would offer this as maybe a once or twice a year service. I would charge double for it i.e. in your example, the £10 job would become £20.
I always did the sills as part of the standard job.
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You clean the glass you clean the frame. Only takes a quick wipe.
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We include frames and sills in the original quoted price as technically they are part of the window. Plus this is a good seling point when you advertise either "frames included" or "no extra cost for frames" :)
I'm going to do that but I'm looking at price comparison and many wcs round here are trad and don't include the frames but are cheaper than the price I was going to charge. I was trying to cost out the extra value of doing the frames for free..if you know what I mean.
By the way, do you also do ALL of doors inc UPVC as well?? I was going to offer this as standard as well as frames and cills.
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As long as the doors are UPVC or in very good painted condition, we will price them in if the customer wants them done. Be carefull on new build sites where you don't have UPVC and they are painted, the finish of the paintwork may not be good and when you wipe down, you will take the paint with you, so not worth the hassle. You probably are not far out with 50% on top of the £10, but again each property and customer requirement can be different :) You do have a really good selling point if not many other Wc's include frames in your area....happy hunting :)
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What do you do if the customer wants ther doors doing but they are not ion good painted condition???
Say no or warn them??
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Up to you really, but would definately warn them and express your concerns and say that "if they wish" you will do the first clean on it to establish what can and can't be done and discuss with them after that again. By the way, when you see a very poor condition door, you will know when to say no! :)
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do what i do
2 top windows = £3, if they are of normal size, and for 2 bottom windows = £2 you earn enough to wipe them over, and to be honest, if you have a snotter or sill cloth, i mop up, and wipe the frame when i wipe the edges, it take about 5secs more, and if you do a little bit each time, will save you more money over time, and earn you more than doing it as a one off.
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it all depends how dirty they are, if they are bad, i charge as much as 3 times as much , trad,
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I find as a gneral rule of thumb that including upvc frames in a traditional clean usually doubles up on the time it takes to do them if you say do them every other time. So I usually charge double the cost of the windows. I find most are more than happy with that. If it doesn't take double the time then I'll reduce price accordingly.
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double the time?
what do you do?
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I don't know how you guys/gals do it in less than that unless it's just the style of the windows on my round differs from yours. Many of them have a little recess that runs rounfd the edge of the openers and if you dont go down there they get really black. on many of them the recess is nearly an inch deep. To do some a one climb job becomes a two climb job because you can't reach safely right to the edge.
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double the time?
what do you do?
Well if I were doing it as a once or twice a year job, I have sometimes needed to go over it with a slightly abrasive washing up pad and possibly a bit of JIF or similar. Also wash under the sills - especially on upper windows where dirt below the sill shows up from the ground. There is a reason why I have charged double for this type of work. Also, I think it's a long standing habit not to price all-in on a regular clean that came from when I first started window cleaning. Bear in mind that when I started (early 90s), many people were paying 14 or 15% for their mortgages and starting out was very difficult because everyone was watching the pennies. At that time, to charge a bit lower and cut a few (less important) corners was not seen as a bad thing so long as people were getting a reasonable quality, affordable job.
At least by offering frames as an occasional extra, people had the choice whether to pay for it or not. Of course then Britain pulled out of the ERM, mortgage costs plumetted overnight, but I couldn't start pricing higher on many jobs and including frames because neighbours talk and would have thought I was ripping the new customers off by charging more and doing a quick frame wipe.
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Frames get wiped as standard thats how i get so much work as others in the area dont and refuse to wipe frames.
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When you clean the frames and cills do you just use the pure water without any cleaning agent and do you dry wipe the frames and cills??
If so how do you dry wipe the top frames and cills??
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if i do the frames , i charge the same again ,
ie , your £10 house i would charge another £10 for the frames !
frames shouldnt need doing every time , especially if you are doing the cills each time !
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if i do the frames , i charge the same again ,
ie , your £10 house i would charge another £10 for the frames !
frames shouldnt need doing every time , especially if you are doing the cills each time !
you hit the nail on the head, they dont need doing everytime, thats why it only takes a few second, to quickly wipe of "dust" its not even that really, and over a year, for the time i spend and earn, it might work out more that spending half as much time in wiping the sills,
plus it looks better for longer,
but to be honest, when i quote a job i say the price, if they are like, ohhhh ermmm, i then quickly add it includes the frames etc, even though i would have done them anyways
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I know some that refuse to clean frames even to the point of turning down a job if it includes the frames every time. That I don't understand. I've never refused to clean them. I've always seen it as extra work and given two prices one with and one without the frames. That way the custy can choose if they want to save money or not. I know there are some Jobs I wouldn't have if I charged one price and included the frames. Where I live when people ask for a quote for their windows they usually understand that to mean windows and sills, not the frames. There are a few exceptions however so I usually make sure we understand each other bfor I start. Leads to less complications later.
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i suppose its comes down to
"what ever works for you"
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If it's the frames once in a while then I double the price, if the frames are really minging then I'll add even more on. Frames that are done every month I'd charge 50% more. I'm wfp now so just add the frames to the service unless some one wants me to be particularly fussy about them then I'll charge more.
I think if you do frames once in a while trad it can take up to twice as long easy, that's if your going to do a decent job. If it don't take twice as long it might indicate that your a bit slow using a blade. It would probably take Terry Burrows several times longer to clean the frames as well as the glass as he's so fast with a blade.
As for including frames in a basic package, it depends where you live as to how it will work, if you do a load of council estates you'll find they are more interested in a cheap job.
Simon.
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Thanks. I think i'll do the frames, cills and doors all advertised as no extra charge but just actuyally price a bit more than average.
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Go for it.
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Right from the start I did the frames every time.
It sets me apart from the run of the mill WCer. When I was trad (Which wasn't for long) all new custy's were charged double for the 1st clean. My explanation to the custy is always that I clean the frames every time but to get them up to my standards it will take a lot more work 1st time. To be honest I probably lose out on earnings on the 1st clean but I find this does 2 things. No 1 it weeds out the ones who just want 1 clean and then will dump you and No 2 when the new custy sees the frames all shiny they are well impressed. Nice white frames stand out even more than clean glass. After the 1st clean trad to keep them clean takes no time at all. It also helps to justify why my prices are probably around double the beer and summer brigades. I hate to bring this up but going WFP means I take no longer than I would otherwise coz I do the frames anyway. ;) :)
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Don't you take pride in your work, I really think to make a job look nice the whole window needs cleaning, it's a shortcut just to clean the glass, after all we are called window cleaners, not glass cleaners. What is the point of just cleaning the glass when you could stick your price up a little and include the frames, you wait and see how happy the customers are, and how much their house will stand out compared to the neighbours. Remember the frame is a large percentage of the window and for a general appearance of cleanliness the job should be done properly, unless the frames are flakey. It's fly by nighs that just do the glass and I will get picked over any other window cleaner in the area because of my standard of cleaning.
You might not like the idea of this non frame cleaning people, but the next fresh job you get, clean the frames, even if it's without telling the customer you include the frames, see how nice it looks and see how it makes you feel, it makes you be able to leave a job with a smile on your face, and I don't know why you'r self employed if you don't want to be happy in your trade. You probably started window cleaning because you were unhappy in your old job, then get happier and do a proper job.
Doing a proper job leaves you feeling good inside, trust me
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Luke and Brightclean, do you just use water on the frames and cills and do you wipe the frames and cills dry??
Thanks
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or "whatever works for the customer", after all the saying "the customer is always right" is still in use and is still aplicable to modern methods and work
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Clean the frames,yes by all means but they don`t need doing meticulously(spelling) every time.If i did that at all my houses every clean i`d never get all my work done,customers do not expect it to be done every clean in general and i do some snooty up market places.Unless there prepared to pay for it they don`t get them done,don`t get me wrong i don`t let the sills go green but frames and sills every clean for just a 5-10% increase would put me out of business.I know a wc and all he bangs on about is how good a job he does,i clean all the frames and sills on all my houses year in year out every clean,this guy is up to his eye balls in dept does about 5-6 houses a day and basically earns a fraction of what he could,oh and he`s trad aswell.Like i said i do up market work and have had no complaints about sills or frames,so just think how long over the years i could have wasted farting about with plastic cleaning for nothing.
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Luke it`s not about taking pride in your work it`s business,taking pride in your work won`t pay the bills.
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won't it, well answer this then. We are invloved in the "window" trade as in we make peoples houses look nice through windows. Everest take pride in their work while everybody else pays the bills. But who makes the most money.......Everest, and who do rich people go to when they wan't windows fitting.....Everest. Have you ever cleaned Everest windows, they take half the time, why?, because they take pride in their work. They make their windows the very best money can buy while the rest are doing bogoff deals. And did you know it is companies like Everest who still go out and cold call. They still want a hands on aproach while everybody else does online and over the phone deals. Cold calling has been proven to the the most effective way of gaining customers especially when done by a good salesman.
Luckily my dad was an Everest salesman and they do "fit the best" and we clean the best, and we make the most money in these parts. The proof is in the pudding. But I don't want an argument!! especially with people I don't know!! Luke
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Doing a proper job leaves you feeling good inside, trust me
I agree, and I do a proper job of whatever I've been paid to do whether that's including the frames or not.
One of the reasons I price the way I do is because when I began cleaning windows there was no such thing as UPVC frames they were nearly all Critall or cheap wood and putty, absolutely awful things, that with age shredded anything that went near them including fingers. No such thing as wiping frames then. Detailing was also almost impossible at times. I once put a long splinter right through my forefinger when detailing round a window with wooden beading.
With the popularity, firstly of Aluminium and then UPVC frames came frame wiping. Cost me a fortune at first because I didn't alter my prices, I just wiped the frames. The difference in time to clean the same houses was staggering. I went from cleaning 7 houses (2 &3 bed terraced) an hour to just 4. So I increased the prices to match what I'd been earning before and promptly lost all my custies with Aluminium and UPVC frames. So I hit on the idea of charging for just the windows and offering a frame cleaning service as an extra service if required and allowed any prospective custies to choose what they wanted. That way I kept both the custies who wanted only the windows and those who wanted both windows and frames cleaned.
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good idea
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I agree give them the choice but don`t do it for free.
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isnt wfp clean frames = spotless glass. we charge double for first cleans surly if we only did glass from then on then doing the frames was a waste of time in the first place. most of our customers sooner have clean frames cus that is what you see from a distance not the glass but since the frames are clean now and they got over the spotting stage why take the chance of dirt building up on the frame and one day have spotting reappear, lets face it we tell then that the frames need to be clean or spotting will appear. while the frames are clean why not keep them that way it takes no time at all and the customer payed for it in the begining.
to me not worth the customer saying the system is crap for the sake of not doing frames but thats me
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I suspect we're talking trad here as if we we were WFP most of this thread would be moot. Hopefully I'll be WFPoling tops and tradding the downs by autumn so thats gonna be intrestin.'
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So by going WFP you saying to them i`ll do your frames from now on for free,some wcs say this to the customer in a way of selling it to them so they don`t get sacked.When you were trad did you do all the frames every time for nothing then,my guess is you didn`t so why are you doing them for nothing now.I bet theres a lot of guys that don`t do the frames every time for the simple fact it`s not needed every clean.
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or "whatever works for the customer", after all the saying "the customer is always right" is still in use and is still aplicable to modern methods and work
If I took that too literally about the customer always being right so that I always did their bidding, I would probably have been in the bankruptcy court long ago.