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UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: neil100 on May 28, 2007, 07:01:31 pm

Title: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: neil100 on May 28, 2007, 07:01:31 pm
 The reason I ask is I am midway through putting a new membrane in my 40 40 ro. I have just removed the old membrane out of the vessel, unpacked my new one and I have now noticed a Rubber seal on only one end of the membrane.

I cant remmeber which end the seal was on when I pulled the memmbrane out.

The end I have opened is where the water goes to waste and the mostly pure water into my tank.

Please Help I need to finnish it. I dont want to do it wrong and find its leaking.

Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou.

Nel.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: Bazzy1999 on May 28, 2007, 07:23:36 pm
Just looked at my 4040ro instructions and it says the black seal goes at the feed end.
Hope this helps...

Bazz...
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: Roy Harding on May 28, 2007, 07:24:16 pm
Hi I have just changed mine on saturday.

The rubber seal goes at the end the water goes in from your fillters.

Roy
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: neil100 on May 28, 2007, 07:34:52 pm
Thanks Roy and Bazz. I will make sure the seal on my memmbrane will be at the end where my water comes in at. I suppose the seal makes that end watertight whilst the O ring makes the other end watertight.

Many thanks.

Nel.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: Bazzy1999 on May 28, 2007, 08:51:26 pm
Nel & Roy... How long did your 4040 membranes last..

Bazz...

Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: Roy Harding on May 28, 2007, 09:14:46 pm
Mine lasted 2 1/2 yrs

Roy
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: Bazzy1999 on May 28, 2007, 09:24:31 pm
mines 6 months old so ive got abit of time to go then...


Bazz...
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: neil100 on May 28, 2007, 09:30:10 pm
Not long, a tad over 17 months.

I put this down to some bad advice from Facelift on when to change pre filters and my own fault for bringing the ro unit inside for two weeks when I went on my hols begining of febuary this year.

I am not going to cry about it. This new ro looks a real good un from the Ro man.

I have just run the water for 10 mins through my pre filters. I then connected it up to my RO left it on flush run for 20 mins, which seamed a total waste as the highest my tds got to was 3.

After 20 mins I connected my kick ass pump. It as brought the TDS down to 1. So I wont bother with resin for a while.

I have left it on the flush run. I have no more adjustment on the valve to try to reduce my tds to zero by allowing more waste water. Now heres the amazing thing, I have just tested by filling my bucket for exactly 60 seconds of waste water, 10 ltrs of waste to 4.2 ltrs of pure water into my tank. Thats on flush as well.

Is that simaler to you guys. My tap tds is 90.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: Roy Harding on May 28, 2007, 09:38:38 pm
My tap tds is 234ppm and is now coming out of the r/o at 0.1ppm.

I set my waste flow control vavle so I get the same fill rate. I use to pyrex jugs and and get them to fill at the same rate.

I dont have a booster pump, but I get 80psi off the mains.

Roy
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: Bazzy1999 on May 28, 2007, 09:39:38 pm
Nel..My tap TDS is 275 ish and my tap presure is 90psi and after pre-filters and 4040ro it brings TDS down to 004 and i polish it off with a DI and i can fill my 1000L static tank in 5 hours but before i start filling the tank i flush the 4040ro for 20mins.

Bazz...
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: neil100 on May 28, 2007, 10:27:05 pm
Wow I am mega impressed with your systems. They are better then mine. Good show. My tap pressure is Woefull. No choice but to get a pump.

I tested it tonight without the pump, I got 6.6 ltrs a min waste and 1.2 ltrs a min pure at 0.2TDS.

So I can fill my 1000 IBC tank in 4 hours if its empty.

On the flushing front, I have a valve in my tank that stops the pure water from over flowing. Would it be benefical for the Ro if I left my outside tap on as a flush when my static tank is full? The ro will not produce any water but all the water going through my RO goes as waste. Or will this damage the RO?

Thanks again for the helpfull advice.

Nel.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: JM123 on May 28, 2007, 10:31:18 pm
you only need to flush the membrane once every week or so - for 15mins.

I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: neil100 on May 28, 2007, 10:48:29 pm
If you only need to flush once a week for 15 mins. Would it be better if I flushed with pure water from the van?

My first memmbrane lasted just under 18 months, I want to do everything the right way and try to get over two years use out of this one.

I am only in a Softish water area my tap tds does not go over 100 tds very often, so its a bit of a shocker that my memmbrane as gone allready.

The old memmbrane could still fill my tank at 4 ltrs a min but its tds was between 17 and 20. Not huge but 20 times higher then 0.1tds.

My son and I use between 3,000 and 3,500 litrs of pure water a week. So a new memmbrane will pay for itself in the long run.

Nel.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: JM123 on May 28, 2007, 11:12:35 pm
ok neil.

the most important thing to remember is to change your prefilters every 6 weeks and your carbon every 12 weeks, no longer than that.

Also, don't buy cheap - you get what you pay for.  We supply purtrex 5micron prefilters £3.50 and EP-10 carbon filters £12.00, a little bit more expensive but very very good quality.  You should easily get 3 years out of a membrane if you change the filters regular and backflush at regular intervals.

Oh, a quality membrane is a must also - just ask Roy Harding what he thinks of his ;)
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: neil100 on May 28, 2007, 11:27:33 pm
Thanks for that Jm.

Can I ask you. When I pulled my old memmbrane out I was shocked to find a massive Osmonics Sticker with Cellophane wrapped round. The Cellophane wrapper around the sticker covered about a third of the memmbrane.

Should that have been removed by the supplier who made up my RO system?

Plus would it have affected the efficency of the memmbrane?

I had a Small Ro man sticker on my new memmbrane which I duly removed.

Do you have a web Site?

Nel.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: JM123 on May 29, 2007, 12:04:08 am
Hi Neil

The cellophane should have been removed! Membranes are normally tape wrapped, but come in a cellophane/plastic bag that you remove the membrane from, the plastic is there only to stop the membrane from drying out.

the osmonics sticker won't matter.

no web site just yet, all the programming etc is done but not online until I get my finger out and load in pics etc.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: tartan cleaning on May 29, 2007, 09:02:55 am
at what tds reading did you change RO? as mine is at 0010 ?
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: neil100 on May 29, 2007, 01:41:11 pm
My tds was averaging between 17 and 20 tds. So my Ro was only 80% efficent and not 98%.

Some would not of changed their memmbrane. I changed mine because in the long run it will save me money. I worked out that at 20 tds a 25 Kg bag of resin would be used every 6 weeks on average.

I have just bought a new bag which should last 18 months at least.

Nel.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: tartan cleaning on May 29, 2007, 06:01:58 pm
hi thanks for your input my ro is now 2yrs old i know it will eventually need a new membrane where did you buy your membrane? thanks
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: Roy Harding on May 29, 2007, 06:06:45 pm
I bought mine from JM123

£225 deliverd

Roy
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: neil100 on May 29, 2007, 06:27:25 pm
I bought mine from Ro-man,

It was £185.00 incl vat and Free delivery.

I took the free delivery offer, the web site said up to 7 days for delivery.

It came in less then 24 hours.

On the same order I got a 25kg bag of resin for £69.50 incl vat with free delivery.

They also have a fantastic Carbon block filter which they recommend. the Chlorplus 10 Carbon Block Filter for £15.75 incl vat. Its good for 45,000 ltrs which is far better then the basic one were you should change it after 15,911 ltrs have been through it.

Nel.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: tartan cleaning on May 29, 2007, 09:52:18 pm
do you have a phone no.?
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: Chris Cottrell on May 29, 2007, 10:05:36 pm
Hi Neil

The cellophane should have been removed! Membranes are normally tape wrapped, but come in a cellophane/plastic bag that you remove the membrane from, the plastic is there only to stop the membrane from drying out.

the osmonics sticker won't matter.

no web site just yet, all the programming etc is done but not online until I get my finger out and load in pics etc.

So should the membrane be removed from the blue wrap ( pictured ) or inserted as is

Chris
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: neil100 on May 30, 2007, 12:53:35 am
Tartan.

Are you asking for my phone number?

You dont say in your post who you are directing the querstion at.

I have no problem in letting you have my number, but I thought you might be asking for JM123 number seeing as hes a supplier.

Nel.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: tartan cleaning on May 30, 2007, 07:47:21 am
Tartan.

Are you asking for my phone number?

You dont say in your post who you are directing the querstion at.

I have no problem in letting you have my number, but I thought you might be asking for JM123 number seeing as hes a supplier.

Nel.

yep suppliers phone no though i had a look at ro-man web site that looks favorite at the mo.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: JM123 on May 30, 2007, 09:10:08 am
As regards the membranes, the ro-man membrane is (as far as I'm aware) an XLE-4040.  The 4040 membrane we supply is the AKTF, which is a more expensive membrane but one we feel is worth the extra due to its quality

Tartan you have mail.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: tartan cleaning on May 30, 2007, 04:10:42 pm
hi the xle membrane is the one i currently have what is the difference?
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: JM123 on May 30, 2007, 04:17:48 pm
the xle is a cheaper membrane (still a very good membrane) but the AK is definitely the best out there.  Output is approx the same (ltrs/min) but the quality of the water is better, most find their output tds to be 001ppm.

Its really a choice thing, the AK is the best (thats just our opinion) while the xle is still a very good membrane for the money.

hope this helps.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: tartan cleaning on May 30, 2007, 05:07:55 pm
hi does this membrane suit all 4040 systems?
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: JM123 on May 30, 2007, 05:22:17 pm
it will suit most 4040 housings on the market.

it will operate on line pressure over 40psi and like any other membrane requires the usual prefilters and weekly flush etc.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: tartan cleaning on May 30, 2007, 06:09:49 pm
its a pentair housing is it compatible? Also i have never flushed my ro as i was told it should flush itself ? as far as i can tell the membrane has not suffered from this as its 2years old now and is still producing 008ppm from 300ppm.
Title: Re: 40 40 membrane does it matter which way I put it back in?
Post by: JM123 on May 30, 2007, 11:24:11 pm
e-mail replied to.