Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: D.Salkeld_Ltd on May 24, 2007, 07:13:44 am
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Another statement to set us off ;D ;D ??? ???
I am NOT....repeat...NOT..Knocking Trad Window Cleaners. If you are happy with your ladder.....then fine ;)
But, I believe there is no NEED to use a ladder anymore for most windows. OK there are some; flat roofs etc. that a ladder is needed to access them. But, on the whole, with the variouse small WFP systems available it is no longer neccasery (spelt rong ???) to work off a ladder ??? ???
What do you think?
David Salkeld
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Another statement to set us off ;D ;D ??? ???
I am NOT....repeat...NOT..Knocking Trad Window Cleaners. If you are happy with your ladder.....then fine ;)
But, I believe there is no NEED to use a ladder anymore for most windows. OK there are some; flat roofs etc. that a ladder is needed to access them. But, on the whole, with the variouse small WFP systems available it is no longer neccasery (spelt rong ???) to work off a ladder ??? ???
What do you think?
David Salkeld
I think you should be made to use ladders for a whole week as ounishment for starting this thread :)
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Shiner,
So what do you think ???
And wait for my next thred ;)
David
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Shiner,
So what do you think ???
And wait for my next thred ;)
David
What do I think?
Well of course you are right. Apart from a small number of windows where you need to climb onto a flat roof to get to them, a ladder isn't really needed. I have occasional days where it might come off a few times but most days it stays on the van. In fact, since I switched to a lighter pole, I even bridge over some quite wide flat roofs with a pole rather than get the ladder off. Of course this isn't always possible but I do it where I can.
I even have two jobs next door to each other where I climb up onto the flat roof and jump across to the neighbour's flat roof. It sounds but but, believe me, the gap is very small or I wouldn't do it.
Shiner >>>>>>>>>>> W/C long jump champ.
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No neeeeeeeeeeddddd
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I fully agree NO NEED TO CLEAN WINDOWS AT ALL , Didnt clean mine at all for 15 years till i became a window cleaner, but the choice is mine how I do it and I choose to do it with ladders
Mogy
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ok, so what about lower sash's left open? ;D
I still carry my ladder just incase. This time of year theres more and more windows left open and nobody home.
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I am NOT....repeat...NOT..Knocking Trad Window Cleaners. If you are happy with your ladder.....then fine ;)
Mogy,
Please note the above. There is a guy I know has been WC for about 30 yrs; Ladder, bucket, washer, squeegee, scrim and sill cloth. I couldn't keep up with him :o WFP for him would be a nightmare ???
David
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WFP is not suitable for ALL windows, so yes there is still a need for ladder use (from a WFP'er too! :o) Windows that are left open? A quick call to the customer the day before should remedy that one :)
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There is NO NEED to use a ladder to clean windows
Well i prefer to use a squeegee or a wfp brush, a ladder would scratch the glass surely?!?!? :P
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I have a very good customer. £30 every month - quick and easy job - cash on completion - cup of tea on arrival ;D
Only snag - old double glazing with perished rubber gaskets - the type that leach black dye into the water and onto the glass.
Only practical method is trad and wipe the frame before squeegeeing, so i do.
Do I need to use a ladder for this job? YES
Have a few others which I also ladder for a variety of good relevant reasons.
Cheers,
Ian
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Sometimes i still can`t believe how good a job the pole does,it gets quicker and quicker and i have to check just to make sure there spotless but the old pole never seems to let me down.
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HI D.SALKELD ;D ;D
I WAITED TILL WEDNESDAY TO SEE A PROPER TEAM PLAY , HA HA HA HA HA HA 21 POINTS BEHIND UNITED & NOT WON LEAGUE FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS , I SUPPOSE THATS WHO YOUR ON ABOUT.
WHAT A MATCH , ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
AIG = WHATEVER HA HA :P :P :P
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Well i prefer to use a squeegee or a wfp brush, a ladder would scratch the glass surely?!?!?
Someone had to say it!
Seriously though, I have numerous first floor flats that I do where I don't do the flats beneath as the occupiers do them themselves. I think they'd be up in arms if I poled the windows above and left the dirt all over their windows below. These can only be done by ladder (and trad equipment) at least until I gain the custom of the people beneath.
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I have to agree there is no need
ITS TIME LADDERS WAS BANNED FOR WINDOW CLEANING
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/comsite5/bin/pdinventory.pl?pdlanding=1&referid=2930&purchase_type=ITM&item_id=0286-18825549
Andy
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Poleman.... that article is dated 2005...... i wonder how many people have died in fork lift truck accidents in that time...... better ban them aswell then! And any other tool of a trade that may cause a risk to someone's safety!
With the state of this country it wouldn't suprise me if wfp manufacturers are paying off the government to bring out anti-ladder legislations!!! :)
In fact..... there may be government agents at work in this forum!!! :-\
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i use ladders because i cannot afford a WFP system yet.
nothing wrong with using ladders as long as there used properly.
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I agree with David.
BUT, if you are a sole trader i think you should have the choise of trad or wfp. If you come off its tough, no benifits or compensation as there is a safer method.
If you employ, thats a different kettle of fish.
Macc
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What a stupid statement
get about more & try wfp'ing 120 year old, paper thin glass 30ft up with a pole without breaking it or without the astragals falling out ::) or like someone said, bottom sashes left open, or the inside of old mansions where you need a 12ft ladder for the insides! or sashes with mega-oxidised astragals etc.etc.etc
I think some people think that every window in the world has lovely upvc frames just because that's all they personaly come across day to day.
I also think some people would spend 2 hours scrubbing an oxidised window just to prove it can be done wfp when it could've been done in 2 mins with a ladder. If you cant use a ladder safley then you should't even have a driving liscense imo.
I am a wfp'er & trad, but to be honest the TOTAL OVER-HYPE of wfp on this forum sometimes is getting silly, who exactly are you trying to convince?
tony
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ITS TIME LADDERS WAS BANNED FOR WINDOW CLEANING
Whilst the case you point to is tragic you have to acknowledge there are risks in all occupations.
Your statement is like saying let's ban cars because people die every day whilst driving. We should all use public transport.
When someone chooses a career they consider the risks beforehand and choose whether or not to take up that career with it's risks. I'd rather be a window cleaner using ladders anyday over some other trades.
As with all other trades, whenever I take on a new job I do a risk assesment and work to minimise any risk to myself and others. If I think any part of the job is too high a risk then I don't do it.
I've done this since long before the HSE started telling everyone what they should and shouldn't be doing. That said I think much of what they say makes for a lot of common sense and are excellent guidelines.
As for a blanket ban on window cleaners using ladders though, I think it's very wrong. If a person doesn't want to use ladders at all, then he/she should only choose work that they can do without them. If they've got no problem using ladders safely, as many of us don't then we should be free to accept work that requires use of a ladder as long as we are prepared to carry out proper risk assesment and any risk involved is minimal.
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What a stupid statement
get about more & try wfp'ing 120 year old, paper thin glass 30ft up with a pole without breaking it or without the astragals falling out ::) or like someone said, bottom sashes left open, or the inside of old mansions where you need a 12ft ladder for the insides! or sashes with mega-oxidised astragals etc.etc.etc
I think some people think that every window in the world has lovely upvc frames just because that's all they personaly come across day to day.
I also think some people would spend 2 hours scrubbing an oxidised window just to prove it can be done wfp when it could've been done in 2 mins with a ladder. If you cant use a ladder safley then you should't even have a driving liscense imo.
I am a wfp'er & trad, but to be honest the TOTAL OVER-HYPE of wfp on this forum sometimes is getting silly, who exactly are you trying to convince?
tony
Way to go Macmac,
Thats the kind of arguement David is looking for!
you've pointed out occasions where WFP is simply not suitable.
The banning of ladders does make sense in a general term, although it would never be a blanket ban because there are - as Macmac points out - many occasions when the use of a ladder is the only sensible and practical method of working.
However, I've been WFPing for 3 years solid and in that time I've not needed to 'WORK' off ladders more than 2 or 3 occasions, and by that I don't mean my little 6ft pointer ladder.
By and large David is right, there are few times when, for the vast majority of us, a ladder is ever needed to work off.
There will come a time when run of the mill window cleaning will indeed have the equivelent of a ladder ban.
The framework is already in place isn't it...."If there is another option other than using ladders, that option should be used."
It's worth pointing out that it doesn't mean the demise of traditional window cleaning...that can still be done with extension poles too!
Ian
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Like i said, who are some people trying to convince??
This ladder Vs wfp thing is getting very, very boring. wfp is a tool & certainley is not a total solution.
It's getting like the guy (we all know one) who buys a new car & suddenly that particular make or model car is the best thing since sliced bread!!!
It may have many downsides but he would never dream of bringing them into conversation, instead, he just tries to convince you (and himself) that everyone should go & do what he has done ::)
BORING, BORING, BORING.
A clean window is a clean window, it's not any cleaner done either method, trad or wfp who cares?
Both have upsides, both have downsides :o :o OH NO :o :o SURELY NOT ANY DOWNSIDES TO WFP, OOOOH MY GOD, NO, I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT IN! WFP? NOT A TOTAL SOLUTION? WHAT THE HELL ARE WE GOINT TO TALK ABOUT THEN????
get a life, get real.
tony
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SAME OLD SAME OLD BLAH DE BLAH
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A pole is just a ladder without rungs.
Long term risks have not yet been compared conclusively. 8)
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Are you talking about ladders or WFP.