Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: D.Salkeld_Ltd on May 18, 2007, 07:02:28 pm
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Hi All,
I have deliberately posted this statement to start of a debate ;)
I think that for a mostly average sized house window cleaner the Backpack system is best.
18' pole and backpack you can get almost ANYWHERE ;)
The trick is to use it so as NOT to lift it.
Now on the other hand, if you do large commercial buildings then it's a bit like cutting the lawn with sicsors (I seriosely CANNOT SPELL ::))
Come on let's have a good debate ;D ;D
David
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i have never tried a backpack, i like my van system, but the thought of not getting my hose caught makes me think, hmmmm
i hated mytrolley system though
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Debate ? you said it all, no contest, backpack hands down every time.
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What about married window cleaners? Can't we have one? :)
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Heres 5 pages going BACK a bit :) http://www.anotherforum.co.uk/?board=wfed_poles;action=display;num=1099524186
aw shucks link blocked so make your own way there :'(
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This is just wondering out loud, but would it be possible to have a van system thats run off an easily removable trolley system thats run off an easily removable backpack system,
Even typing it , it sounds a little silly but for those with a smaller van it would give a lot of versatility
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This is just wondering out loud, but would it be possible to have a van system thats run off an easily removable trolley system thats run off an easily removable backpack system,
Even typing it , it sounds a little silly but for those with a smaller van it would give a lot of versatility
yes
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Ok got round it, go to my website link ...below, then to the Forum links page and click on backpack, thats if your bored ;D
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Jeff can`t you put a 60psi pump on a backpack,peter says the flow sometimes is not adequate.I really fancy a backpack i have a few jobs that it would suit down to the ground.
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Debate ? you said it all, no contest, backpack hands down every time.
100% AGREED.
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Hi All,
I have deliberately posted this statement to start of a debate ;)
I think that for a mostly average sized house window cleaner the Backpack system is best.
18' pole and backpack you can get almost ANYWHERE ;)
The trick is to use it so as NOT to lift it.
Now on the other hand, if you do large commercial buildings then it's a bit like cutting the lawn with sicsors (I seriosely CANNOT SPELL ::))
Come on let's have a good debate ;D ;D
David
I run a Trailer system, but would never go out without the backpack, save so much hasstle on some Jobs, used it today on a couple of first cleans, It did an excellent Job.
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NWH yes you can I did on my first one but now only use the smaller and lighter 35psi Flojet because of the weight.But for a temporary backpack mainly used as a trolley it should be fine. But you also need a good battery or a few of the smaller ones.
My low pressure system wont pump much over 70ft but at normal heights I find it fine but not enough pressure for a fan spray although Peter now has 1mm jfan jets which I need to try.
Omni have their 80psi which sounds ideal for you.
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I have a I have a van set up and if access is easy will always use that because I get a much better flow rate and feel I can work faster with the hose, however I also have a back pack and if the jobs hard to get to out it comes. I wouldn't go out with out it, but most of the time it stays in the van.
Simon
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It would sit in my van a lot to but it would be really handy from time to time,i reckon on some jobs it would save me 15-20 mins easy.
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Hi,
just a little input frow a relatively newbie, ;)
i started last autumn, trad, then went wfp around xmas time,
as the backpack was the cheapest option, i went for it, and in my opinion it was a good starter, but humping all those 25 litre barrels about all day ,for filling it etc, bacame an absolute pain, hoping the darn thing had enough water to finish the last window, (and it never does)... either dragging it around or being uncomfortable with it on your back.
but that was me starting out without any other gear,
so thats my opinion as a starter upper,
but i totally agree its good for awkward places and an odd use here and there, and it certainly will be easier for some of you guys who have all the taps, pumps and van tank on hand to make things simple as regards to filling it,
and i can hear you saying, its nothing carrying a backpack all day, or its easy filling it with 25 litre containers...., yes it is easy, its just time consuming and a pain to be honest.
so yes it is the quickest, for an odd house. OR......
if its used as a back up or unless you convert the damn thing to a trolley or fill via pump, ( even thats a pain )..
whinge over :D
Gary.
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I use a backpack for the few stand alone jobs I have. I only ever carry it if I need to go up steps. Aluminium shopping trolley frames weigh less than a litre of water, mine is always mounted on one of these.
Most of my round is just about as compact as you could get, for this my 50 litre
[ 2x 25 ltr containers] trolley system with 30 metres of micro bore on it's hose, reel reigns supreme.
50 litres till coffee break, 50 more till lunch, 50 more till afternoon break, 50 more job done. Dai
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You could use less water- smaller jets and silicon air hose that allows you to have a tap anwhere. But it does depend on the type of dirt on the glass and whether the glass is hphobic which will use 3 times the ammount that phillic uses or if you do the frames which is twice as much again.
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Totally agree with your last mail Jeff.Can I ask ya this.I`m absolutely `sold` on
Algarde silicone hose,but what makes this hose so different that you can place
Your tap anywhere? Also can you describe the 1 millimeter jets Peter supplies.
Yesterday was a `dream` day for working.All glass phillic,dropped like a `cinema curtain` the water I mean.A new commercial account,went inside,totally spot free,
Average size window 1/3rd of a liter although back flipped em` first with squeegee.
The building has`nt been done for over a year.Is there any way of turning phobic
Glass to phillic glass ?
Lewis Doubtfire
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The hose is soft and pliable so that you just fold with one finger against your palm, it anywhere to stop the flow, no tap needed. Or press it with your thumb against the pole to slow the flow, it or stand on it. Its a lot stronger than it looks.
Phobic to phillic, I aint got an answer after 10 years searching. :'( The suppliers should have a good long hard look at it. Lighter column of water and takes up less than half the ammopunt on a reel. Get it from good aquarium suppliers on a roll.
Havent seen Peters 1mm fan jets, he just commented on them at Blackpool, I guess they are the same as his others- metal with green plastic inserts.
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hi jeff who can i purchase the backpack from and would it be useful for domestic to start off with thanks john
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Cleantech, Williamsons plus others, or the 80psi from Omni http://www.omnipole.com/omnipole_backpack.htm
Yes ideal for starter or for ever. RO units from www.ro-man.co.uk
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Jeff,
The Omnipole BP looks very simular to the Sureflo ??? ::)
I wonder if an Omnipole 80psi pump would fit in a Sureflo ??? ;D
David
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Backpack??? I can't think of anything worse, my body's not designed to hump that weight about all day. Van system for me. ;)
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Backpack??? I can't think of anything worse, my body's not designed to hump that weight about all day. Van system for me. ;)
I didn't get on with the backpack either even though I only used it for odd jobs. I use a van mount and a trolley where needed. No place on my round is out of reach now that I've switched to 100m microbore but for safety's sake, I get the trolley out sometimes. I don't like carrying that weight around. If I'm going to use a backpack on a portable frame, I might just as well use a trolley. I have had bad back at times too. I tried a backpack but it doesn't suit me. That's not to say it won't suit some people though.
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I agree with the Shiner
I think backpacks are a bad idea and i can see there will be many people with back problems in years to come.
I know you can use a backpack with a trolley but if you are going to do that you may aswell just buy a trolley.
I would never use a backpack and neither would my sons.
We use a van mount for most of our work and if i can't get to it with my 100mtrs of minibore out comes my trolley.
Plus with the trolley you can do more work than with a backpack on each fill.
Paul
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I agree with the more water on a trolley bit you said,but most people i know with backpacks don`t actually use them on there backs they carry them.The good thing with a trolley is that you can have a good pump with flow control.
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I have a prolapsed spine anyone with a bad back will know what that means. Using the backpack kept my back excercised and supple, it did not give me any extra problems but then I know how to control back pain- by excercise. I carry 10L max but also use water reducing measures which most dont understand.
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What do you mean by using a reduced amount of water then Jeff.
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Have the ability to finely control the water at the brush head just one possibility using smaller jets, switching on and off to hand, between windows. Making the quantity of water you carry on your back go further. You only need enough, not more than enough, not less, just enough. Its important for backpacks. I usually get 3 house tops from 10L
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What pump do you use on your backpack Jeff.
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Lewis I very often applicate dirty windows prior to wfp, is this what you do?
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Oh sorry I mean't to say also save the back packs for when someone asks you to do Notre Dame Cathederal.
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The only small one out there Its a LF Series 2 Piston demmand pump http://www.dualpumps.co.uk/pages/diaphragm_roller/disphragm_roller_subs/flojet_electric_driven_pumps.htm
RLF 1112201D on/off switch,finned motor & fuse 3.7Lpm £71.74 Page 40
If you want a std trade large pumps for trolley or van its the Duplex II Two Piston demmand pump D313H7011AR 7.6 Lpm £134.11 Page 38
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I use the backpack on a trolley and it as changed my working life.I enjoy working now, where as previously it was always a bit of a drag to get me going.
So to say its no good is wrong, obviously you have to know how to use it!
My worst jobs (georgian and leaded) are now my favourite.
I earn more now and not just because of the wfp, it just makes me more enthusiastic for working.
Iv'e been using it for 6 months now so after 26 years trad the backpack is the best thing ever as far as I'm concerned.
Also, I have not had one complaint about my wfp work,I still do some trad work.
Tim
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so its a trolley system and not a backpack ? ... ;)
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Do many people use them on their back?
I'm just so pleased I chose this way for wfp,very easy to set up, cheap(less than £500),does a great job and I presume a lot lighter to lift in and out vehicle.
All this stuff about not producing enough water flow,I don't understand,because after you have done the first cleans it's faster than trad cleaning and surely that is what we are all after, faster cleans more dosh!
Tim
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For me it is van mount + 100m microbore hose.
If I'm doing a run of houses, say 5 houses one side, then 3 on the other side of the road, I park up, open van doors, slip hose over shoulder (it's connected via a cheap caribina to some webbing that I wear like a sash) and walk to furthest house.
And then it's non stop cleaning until I'm done.
Jeff I know has developed a system or method of work that allows him to use very, very little water, but if I was using a backpack I'd have to refill it at the very least 9 or 10 times (biggish houses, couple with conservatories)
House 9 is a stand alone detached, not a big one, but I reverse up drive, job takes about 8 minutes, it wouldn't be possible to be any quicker with backpack, access very easy and quick, though would comfortably do it with a single fill of back pack.
House 10 is another stand alone, again access so easy a backpack no advantage.
Houses 11 and 12 are next door to each other, once more access straight forward and would certainly have to refill a backpack here, so once more, no advantage gained with a backpack.
And the same for houses 13 and 14, these are a pair of semi's, as one is upstairs only I might just get away without the need to refill a backpack, but access so straight forward there is no advantage.
And of course because I've a 650 litre tank I can have whatever flowrate I like, and the higher the flowrate, potentially the faster you can work (please note the use of the word'potentially'!)
A backpack is of course the ideal tool when there are access problems, particularly on terraced houses and so on, but I only have an odd account here and there where I think I would benefit from having a backpack on board the van.
Ian
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I don`t always `back flip` or squeegee first,but on new accounts that have`nt been done for `yonks` I always do.It lifts and `suspends`,it takes longer obviously,but
Its quicker,ya don`t use anything like as much water for a spot free finish.Jeff
Brimbles recommended pumps are ace,although don`t use pumps anymore,and
Battery powered not as much.Jeffs `fine tuning`technique is something that I try to do now
Using my Algarde hose,I find its much simpler,and quicker.
Lewis Doubtfire
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What does 'back flip' mean? Is that with trad method or wfp.
Thanks
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NO NO NO
A van system with 100mtr M/bore wins hands down, Try both for a year and 99.9% will chose a van set up.
I have a backpack in my van and use only for very awkward accounts, I use it once or twice a day. But I would never use it all day every day on its own, its too heavy for an 8 hour day, use that for a year 8 hours aday and you are going to have some severe problems with your skeltal frame that will cause long term damage or problems.
The problem with the backpack other then weight is you continuely run out of water, so you turn the flow rate down to try to make it last risking doing a bad job. Or your allways going back to a house because you could not quite finnish the last window or couple of windows.
There is skill in walking with a hose and judging how much hose you need for awkward houses, when mastered it takes a lot of frustration away from wfp.
No CONTEST>
Nel,
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hear hear..... from a sole backpack user....
for now! ;)
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Looks like David got his wish, a good debate !