Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: trimanyellow on May 10, 2007, 08:42:21 pm
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Hi
Ive just picked up a few conservatoey cleans next week including the roofs.
Can anyone give me any advice as to what the best method or way is to do these cleans?
do you use detergents? power washers or just wfp them.
Many thanks for your comments and advice
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apparantly they all say get traffic film remover, spray it over the roof, leave it to dry a little, then wfp off
oh yeh, i think they are a complete pain in the ass by the way ;)
others differ obviously
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Get yourself a cheap pump up sprayer (£20 tops)
buy some non-caustic TFR (Traffic Film Remover)
dilute 20:1
Spray all of the roof
Leave for 5-10 mins depending on how dirty it is.
Rinse it off with customers hosepipe (normal water)
The pole it (wfp)
Bobs your Uncle
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Charge at least £100- they are hard work.
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Get yourself a cheap pump up sprayer (£20 tops)
buy some non-caustic TFR (Traffic Film Remover)
dilute 20:1
Spray all of the roof
Leave for 5-10 mins depending on how dirty it is.
Rinse it off with customers hosepipe (normal water)
The pole it (wfp)
Bobs your Uncle
Thats how i do it
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Charge at least £100- they are hard work.
You should have seen the one I have just done. It was a right royal pain. I do not have wfp so if using TFR do I just hose off. And £100 seems steep.
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Must be some kind of tough dirt round your ways! I just plug into the customers water to clean off the roof with my pole/brush and then q quick rinse with pure water. I haven't found a conservatory roof I couldn't get clean yet inc algae/moss etc.
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Steve, The estate is by a few chemical works and a distillery. All the plastic is caked in it and I am searching for the best method to get this off the roof and the UPVC. Need a good stiff brush on a pole to be done from a ladder. Any ideas?
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I've been cleaning con's now for 3 years always done with pole even b4 i went wfp, however this week i had a small con to do but could not get to 2 side's of it due to a wall and sloping roof and it was GREEN with old slime so i borrowed a con roof ladder £32 for 24hrs could not of done the job without it, now that i've used it i will def be using it again.
You can get right up to the fineall (pointy bit) and if need be scrub by hand.
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Do loads of these, in fact just come in from doing one.
I hook a pole up to customers tap and scrub away, got 25 ltrs of tfr in garage, never used it!
Then for pvcu, use a gd cream cleaner.......as good as new!!
I always charge over £100, todays one £125 plus a tenner tip!! ;)
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Mick how long do they take you?
I am not sure about charging as much as that, but I want to be charging the same as you ;D.
When we do them they don't take long so I charge almost by time & how dirty they are.
Lowest being £20 (small & not very dirty)
Higher being £50.
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Usually max 2hrs, the thing is to set ur price and stay with it.
Sometimes, if in a not so affluent area i will go down to £95, but just be confident when quoting, or "include the guttering" in the price for free, i did with todays one, took me bout 40 mins extra.
I dont meam emptying the tho, just cleaning the undersides.
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Charge at least £100- they are hard work.
You should have seen the one I have just done. It was a right royal pain. I do not have wfp so if using TFR do I just hose off. And £100 seems steep.
Company local to me has just gone national, and they charge three to four hundred pounds :o so I would say hundred pounds is cheap
Here is the company... http://www.fargil.co.uk/welcome.html
Andy
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Ive seen these before when looking into the cons cleaning.....are they a franchised operation?
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Company local to me has just gone national, and they charge three to four hundred pounds :o so I would say hundred pounds is cheap
Here is the company... http://www.fargil.co.uk/welcome.html
Andy
:o :o :o :o
unbeliverble how do they get away with it ???
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Its a numbers game.......all you need is 4 or 5 ppl per week say yes and ur on a winner!!...im sure with loads of marketing, its possible to get enough leads to achieve that!!
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Ive seen these before when looking into the cons cleaning.....are they a franchised operation?
Hi Mick, so I have been told they have or just about to sell franchises
jampot
They are very professional at what they do, as you can see from there web site, they know what they can get or they would cost them selfs out of the market
Andy
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They priced 4 con roof's near me the other day pretty much all the same,
cheapest one was £1050 :o the top one was £1400 :o :o :o
Thankfully one off them phoned me for a second opinion i picked all for of them up for £1000 :D :D
This is not the 1st time this has happened thankfully
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wow, that's just ridiculous. Unbelievable.
£100 yes, but an extra zero? :o
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i take it people do these without wfp then? i did one a while ago with just a pole on a hose pipe didnt look as good as i had hoped when it was dry though take it the tfr is the answer.what sort of sprayer would u use just like a pump garden sprayer?
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Company local to me has just gone national, and they charge three to four hundred pounds :o so I would say hundred pounds is cheap
Andy
:o :o :o :o
unbeliverble how do they get away with it ???
Yeah, earning profit like that, have trading standards been informed...there should be a law against it!!!!!
Mark
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Wow...... I simply cannot believe the prices..... what am I doing to myself....
If this is what peeps can get I am seriously undercharging....
Saying that though, with TFR and WFP they don't exactly take long do they?
They must use all sorts of cleaning agents & stuff...... dont' they... do they? ???
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Makes me laugh - i've had one complain because i charged £20! Took me ages, then she tells me she pays£30 just to have her hair set!
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Day off today ;D
On FARGIL website they say treating PVCu to polish, what do you think they use? Or does anybody know? is is as good as wfp and a good scrub?
Cheers Craig
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Old WFP brushes never get thrown away no matter how tatty they get. They just get used for conservatory roofs.
I have never used tfr but a good strong mix of washing up liquid works just fine. If you are starting out you may want to save yourself a few bob.
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Company local to me has just gone national, and they charge three to four hundred pounds :o so I would say hundred pounds is cheap
Andy
:o :o :o :o
unbeliverble how do they get away with it ???
Yeah, earning profit like that, have trading standards been informed...there should be a law against it!!!!!
Mark
Law against profit! :o
Yeah to listen to some of the posters on here you'd think so!!!
One poster charges £20 a clean, another will charge £80 and be made to feel like a dreamer by others who cannot envisage anyone obtaining that price.
BTW the statement was made very much tongue in cheek, if they want to charge £400-£500 a job good for them, it definately gives others a chance to earn good money while at the same time discounting.
Mark
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BTW the statement was made very much tongue in cheek, if they want to charge £400-£500 a job good for them, it definately gives others a chance to earn good money while at the same time discounting.
Mark
A man after me own heart ;D if the profit is there, go for it....... just imagine being in a quote off against these people ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Bet they get a lot of knock backs. What they offer is more than just a scrub of the roof with a brush.
They offer, and market, is a total refurb package, inside and out upvc and everything.
Still a good business idea though.
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Makes me laugh - i've had one complain because i charged £20! Took me ages, then she tells me she pays£30 just to have her hair set!
hair set , yes. but i bet the roof looks better!
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British people are unique ! They want to feel the sun and expand their castle . . . . . ie plastic extension with windows ! If they love it and have paid £1000,s on it surely they want to maintain it ? Just a small tip if you are the w/c and somone asks you to quote , tell them you know somone who does conservatory maintainence and get your mate to do it ! And you can do the same for your mate !
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I have charge £15 just for a quick spruce with wfp on about 8 panels and it took me 15 mins but i have also charged £40 for one that took just over an hour both small but both now clean. they want them done every 3 -4 months so all good for me.
but and i mean BUT if it was bigger and filthy i would charge up to £250 for some of the pain in the ass ones that i have seen. I think with WFP and TFR still could be done under 3 -4 hrs
J
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What do you think to these prices matt, squeeky and mac mac, you normallly have so much to say.
Could you see this as an add on to your window cleaning business, or are you too busy?
Mark
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What do you think to these prices matt, squeeky and mac mac, you normallly have so much to say.
Could you see this as an add on to your window cleaning business, or are you too busy?
Mark
Best not to get personal I find !
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I think it can be a good addon as you can deff do in the rain as it is easier in the rain I think
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i thought most window cleaners did con roofs and fascias etc ??? as for prices i try to price these jobs higher than my rate for window cleaning.....not always high enough :( but that will be changing from now on ;D
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What do you think to these prices matt, squeeky and mac mac, you normallly have so much to say.
Could you see this as an add on to your window cleaning business, or are you too busy?
Mark
it is always hard to judge from text ,but that comes across as a tad provocative
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No not at all, just looking for some balance to the thread, they may provide an insight as to why experienced cleaners dont bother with this type of cleaning, or why they price at the levels they do.
They all seem to have strong views on "real world" pricing in relation to the window cleaning trade, their thoughts on this would be very much appreciated.
Mark
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So I take it no one of the "real world" of pricing has an opinion on PVCu cleaning prices.
Oh and if you were in a position where customers didnt want to pay you much for cleaning windows, or they cancelled you because they didnt like the pole, would you consider offering this service ?
Mark
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So I take it no one of the "real world" of pricing has an opinion on PVCu cleaning prices.
Oh and if you were in a position where customers didnt want to pay you much for cleaning windows, or they cancelled you because they didnt like the pole, would you consider offering this service ?
Mark
Davo, i will suggest that YOU go out next week & price some con' cleans up @ 500 quid a throw, come back & report your findings & we'll take it from there :-*
Tony
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Mac mac, theres not much middle ground with you is there? I havent said Id charge £500.
The question is, do you think at the prices some companys charge that a window cleaner offering a very similar service would be "dreaming" if he were to charge between £100-£250 to clean a similar conservatory?
BTW I could sell em at £500 if thats what I wanted to do, but I dont think thats a volume price point.
Mark
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Davo , my friend also a window cleaner fits upvc soffits and gutters ! Some of his customers asked him for quotes which he did , suffice to say they thought he was too expensive ! Later they got the job done by virgo who charge double what he was quoting ! ::)
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Davo , my friend also a window cleaner fits upvc soffits and gutters ! Some of his customers asked him for quotes which he did , suffice to say they thought he was too expensive ! Later they got the job done by virgo who charge double what he was quoting ! ::)
Very important question...why do you think that is?
Mark
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Well his words not mine ......." just cos I clean the windows they think I should do it for nowt ( nothing ) My point on an earlier thread is if somone asks give them your mates number ! and visa versa ;D
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Well his words not mine ......." just cos I clean the windows they think I should do it for nowt ( nothing ) My point on an earlier thread is if somone asks give them your mates number ! and visa versa ;D
EXACTLY, its the customers perception of a window cleaner as cheap labour.
And IMO thats what you need to change if you want to obtain good money for your time.
Now a conservatory cleaner who happens to also clean windows.....does that open up more possibilities???
Mark
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Davo, without being rude, may i ask - exactly what do you do? Are you a window cleaner? Are you some kind of lecturer or still at school? Just a simple answer would suffice only you seem to be full of theory but with little substance if you know what i mean.
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Mac mac, theres not much middle ground with you is there? I havent said Id charge £500.
The question is, do you think at the prices some companys charge that a window cleaner offering a very similar service would be "dreaming" if he were to charge between £100-£250 to clean a similar conservatory?
BTW I could sell em at £500 if thats what I wanted to do, but I dont think thats a volume price point.
Mark
Forgive me, i have been down :'(
To be fair davo, with the correct approach, i think you could get 100 to 250 quid for a proper con' clean quite often & is a realistic price. 500 quid i think is pushing it & as you state it's not realy a volume business. BUT, i think there is a difference between making a living soleley from con' cleans & as an add on to w/c'ing, this is where the customer perspective comes in. ;)
Tony
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Davo, without being rude, may i ask - exactly what do you do? Are you a window cleaner? Are you some kind of lecturer or still at school? Just a simple answer would suffice only you seem to be full of theory but with little substance if you know what i mean.
DJW My job is in direct sales, im a sales manager for a national company.
Is that straight forward enough?
Mark
If you mean substance as in cleaning windows, your quite correct. If you mean substance as in selling goods or services to people then your mistaken.
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Davo, without being rude, may i ask - exactly what do you do? Are you a window cleaner? Are you some kind of lecturer or still at school? Just a simple answer would suffice only you seem to be full of theory but with little substance if you know what i mean.
DJW My job is in direct sales, im a sales manager for a national company.
Is that straight forward enough?
Mark
If you mean substance as in cleaning windows, your quite correct. If you mean substance as in selling goods or services to people then your mistaken.
so you are not a window cleaner ??? ???
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Davo, without being rude, may i ask - exactly what do you do? Are you a window cleaner? Are you some kind of lecturer or still at school? Just a simple answer would suffice only you seem to be full of theory but with little substance if you know what i mean.
DJW My job is in direct sales, im a sales manager for a national company.
Is that straight forward enough?
Mark
If you mean substance as in cleaning windows, your quite correct. If you mean substance as in selling goods or services to people then your mistaken.
so you are not a window cleaner ??? ???
Do you want an answer to that??
Mark
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well yes, am i missing something ??? i thought you cleaned windows for a living ,this is a window cleaners forum after all and i assumed that most people on here were window cleaners or wanted to become window cleaners ???
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Mac mac, theres not much middle ground with you is there? I havent said Id charge £500.
The question is, do you think at the prices some companys charge that a window cleaner offering a very similar service would be "dreaming" if he were to charge between £100-£250 to clean a similar conservatory?
BTW I could sell em at £500 if thats what I wanted to do, but I dont think thats a volume price point.
Mark
Forgive me, i have been down :'(
To be fair davo, with the correct approach, i think you could get 100 to 250 quid for a proper con' clean quite often & is a realistic price. 500 quid i think is pushing it & as you state it's not realy a volume business. BUT, i think there is a difference between making a living soleley from con' cleans & as an add on to w/c'ing, this is where the customer perspective comes in. ;)
Tony
Thankyou for your opinion mac mac.
Mark
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are you a window cleaner ....Davo???
sorry ...i will simplify the question ...
do you clean windows and get paid for it???? ::)
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are you a window cleaner ....Davo???
sorry ...i will simplify the question ...
do you clean windows and get paid for it???? ::)
NO.
Thanks for simplyfying the question.
And I presume there are people reading and using this forum who dont currently clean windows and get paid for it.
Mark
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Davo
I think you should make clear your possition as it may be in your favour to do so. You may get very different replies if people knew your exact intensions, i for one may have got your situation completely wrong but if i knew what it was & what you actualy want to acheive i might even be able to help you & give better answers to your questions ;)
Tony
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yes there are but, as they have no experience in the hands on part... they don't get taken seriously....and it's very easy to destinguish the real wc from the not so real.........
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so basically you sell double glazing and are onhere looking ffor info about window cleaning but you do not have a round ??? or do you still sub work out that you have canvassed ???
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yes there are but, as they have no experience in the hands on part... they don't get taken seriously....and it's very easy to destinguish the real wc from the not so real.........
I dont offer opinions on how to clean windows.
mark
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Anyone that can sell double glazing is welcome to give me tips about increasing my business !
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are there no forums for double glazing salesmen then ???
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so basically you sell double glazing and are onhere looking ffor info about window cleaning but you do not have a round ??? or do you still sub work out that you have canvassed ???
I dont sell double glazing, and I earn no money from the work I canvassed.
Mark
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right,so you intend to start a round then and are looking for advice/info etc. :) is that correct
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so basically you sell double glazing and are onhere looking ffor info about window cleaning but you do not have a round ??? or do you still sub work out that you have canvassed ???
I dont sell double glazing, and I earn no money from the work I canvassed.
Mark
the majority read, and don't post and you are boring us.... so get to the point ....i cant be bothered to read your reply ....im toooo tired .... got work to do
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Thank you Davo (Mark) now we are getting somewhere, i notice the only thing you seem to post about is marketing and money and never about the cleaning side of things which puzzled me for a while and still does. I find it rather difficult to take advice from someone who is not in the same boat if you see what i mean, which explains why i have such a problem with your posts (over my head most of the time). This is not a rant or a wich hunt by the way - some of your advice might indeed be useful. :)
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Thank you Davo (Mark) now we are getting somewhere, i notice the only thing you seem to post about is marketing and money and never about the cleaning side of things which puzzled me for a while and still does. I find it rather difficult to take advice from someone who is not in the same boat if you see what i mean, which explains why i have such a problem with your posts (over my head most of the time). This is not a rant or a wich hunt by the way - some of your advice might indeed be useful. :)
have to agree on that djw, i had assumed the marketing stuff was direct experience of working a round,rather than transplanted generic sales,could still be useful tho i spose
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Thank you Davo (Mark) now we are getting somewhere, i notice the only thing you seem to post about is marketing and money and never about the cleaning side of things which puzzled me for a while and still does. I find it rather difficult to take advice from someone who is not in the same boat if you see what i mean, which explains why i have such a problem with your posts (over my head most of the time). This is not a rant or a wich hunt by the way - some of your advice might indeed be useful. :)
I read the boards for information, I see posts concerning topics I understand and have experience of and post on those topics. Theres not much point posting on a subject I have no experience of.
I was a time served painter and decorator for 15 years, now I work in direct sales. I wish I had the knowledge I have now when I was on the tools. So many jobs underpriced because I thought they wouldnt pay any more
Thats why I tend to talk about prices and rates, Ive experienced this first hand. The biggest barrier when I was on the tools was me, my confidence in what I could charge.
I read these boards and see the exact same mind set.
Mark
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phew!!! that took some getting out didnt it,i find it strange that a salesman with no direct experience of window cleaning should choose to post on a window cleaners site ??? ??? ???,now you are opening up perhaps you could give a straight answer to this question
HAVE YOU ALREADY STARTED,OR DO YOU INTEND TO START,A WINDOW CLEANING ROUND??????
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phew!!! that took some getting out didnt it,i find it strange that a salesman with no direct experience of window cleaning should choose to post on a window cleaners site ??? ??? ???,now you are opening up perhaps you could give a straight answer to this question
HAVE YOU ALREADY STARTED,OR DO YOU INTEND TO START,A WINDOW CLEANING ROUND??????
Now I am opening up....... think thats enough about me. Dont you worry about what Im doing or intending to do.
Mark
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so why post on here ??? ??? ??? whats the point if you dont clean windows ??? i dont post on sites for print workers or mechanics or gunsmiths or electricians even tho i might have some knowledge(however limited) which relates to their trade ???I JUST DONT GET IT >:( over and out man you do my head in ???
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so why post on here ??? ??? ??? whats the point if you dont clean windows ??? i dont post on sites for print workers or mechanics or gunsmiths or electricians even tho i might have some knowledge(however limited) which relates to their trade ???I JUST DONT GET IT >:( over and out man you do my head in ???
I have been open and honest and have no problem in answering questions, however I dont respond well to someone whos trying to be smart .
Mark
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Your theories are great but many are unpractical in the real world, where have you gained your ideas from - do you read some books on salesmanship? And why post on this site? You have nothing to gain other than playing with us. So are you just testing theories out to get a reaction? You've seen the brags of earnings on here so if you applied your ideas on top then you would earn an astonishing wage (if it worked). So what's it all about? Why aren't you out there practicing what you preach?
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Your theories are great but many are unpractical in the real world, where have you gained your ideas from - do you read some books on salesmanship? And why post on this site? You have nothing to gain other than playing with us. So are you just testing theories out to get a reaction? You've seen the brags of earnings on here so if you applied your ideas on top then you would earn an astonishing wage (if it worked). So what's it all about? Why aren't you out there practicing what you preach?
Many are unpractical in the real world....like what?
No Im not playing with anyone
No i havent got it all out of a book
Who says Im not practicing what I preach.
Mark
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Like whacking in a huge price on an unsuspecting customer? - not practical if you want to keep them for return cleans in the future.
Was it you that said "buyers are liars"? a very strong statement to make when there is obviously little money about on the estates that i cover.
The unpracticalities of your theories are that probably 90% of the time there is little money about for people to pay the huge figures you are suggesting for conservatory cleans. Most houses and extensions inc. conservatories are paid for by loans so few customers are loaded with liquid assets.
I like the basis of some of your posts but struggle with your - dare i say it, cons to strip customers of money.
Back in September you were picking our brains on setting up a windowcleaning round, now six months later your telling us how to run our business yet your not in the business by your own admission.
So i ask again - what is it you actually do for a living and what interest do you have in this forum?
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Davo Is clearly a sales man, I like reading what he writes, and take some of the things on board ;) many will just not be sustainable in the long term but I like his style.
I dont rip people of ever by the way ;)
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If he was sat across the table from me now i would be asking exactly the same questions but it wouldn't seem threatening as the typed word appears on a forum.
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Davo Is clearly a sales man, I like reading what he writes, and take some of the things on board ;) many will just not be sustainable in the long term but I like his style.
I dont rip people of ever by the way ;)
you said it ian, he is definite salesman ::) i just dont understand why he is on here posting questions etc. when he does not clean windows for a living ??? what does he get out of it? and whats all the " Dont you worry about what i am doing or intending to do "crap ??? I assumed he had a window cleaning business from the posts on canvassing,managing work,removing paint from windows,cleaning upvc etc. I remember JSMC making his first posts on here a short while back,he asked loads of questions about everything and anything related to window cleaning .why? because he was interested in starting a window cleaning business,not because he wanted to give us all the benefit of his marketing and sales strategy.I am not "trying to be smart" i simply fail to see the reason why anyone would have any interest in this forum UNLESS they :
1: already have a window cleaning round/business/job
2: are interested in starting a window cleaning round/business
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Davo Is clearly a sales man, I like reading what he writes, and take some of the things on board ;) many will just not be sustainable in the long term but I like his style.
I dont rip people of ever by the way ;)
you said it ian, he is definite salesman ::) i just dont understand why he is on here posting questions etc. when he does not clean windows for a living ??? what does he get out of it? and whats all the " Dont you worry about what i am doing or intending to do "crap ??? I assumed he had a window cleaning business from the posts on canvassing,managing work,removing paint from windows,cleaning upvc etc. I remember JSMC making his first posts on here a short while back,he asked loads of questions about everything and anything related to window cleaning .why? because he was interested in starting a window cleaning business,not because he wanted to give us all the benefit of his marketing and sales strategy.I am not "trying to be smart" i simply fail to see the reason why anyone would have any interest in this forum UNLESS they :
1: already have a window cleaning round/business/job
2: are interested in starting a window cleaning round/business
maybe he wants to start up doing it, if he does then many of the things need to be changed for it to work in the long term.
if not maybe he just finds it interesting.
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Like whacking in a huge price on an unsuspecting customer? - not practical if you want to keep them for return cleans in the future.
Was it you that said "buyers are liars"? a very strong statement to make when there is obviously little money about on the estates that i cover.
The unpracticalities of your theories are that probably 90% of the time there is little money about for people to pay the huge figures you are suggesting for conservatory cleans. Most houses and extensions inc. conservatories are paid for by loans so few customers are loaded with liquid assets.
I like the basis of some of your posts but struggle with your - dare i say it, cons to strip customers of money.
Back in September you were picking our brains on setting up a windowcleaning round, now six months later your telling us how to run our business yet your not in the business by your own admission.
So i ask again - what is it you actually do for a living and what interest do you have in this forum?
Im not telling you how to run your business, this is a forum, my posts merely reflect another opinion.
I have already told you what I do for a living, and I shall shortly be selling a cleaning service which I will sell on to a friend whom I gave some window cleaning work to.
I post on cleaning paint off things because thats what I did for 15 years. I also have cleaned a few conservatories trying out different cleaners so I have experience of that.
The only thing that I dont have is 1000's of hours of experience moving a pole with a brush on the end up and down on glass.
Ive done a great deal of canvassing and direct selling.
Ill tell you a quick story wont take long, I was talking to an old friend whos moved away from the area where I live to the north east, they have a window cleaner, the same one for the last 7 years, he calls every 2 weeks cleans a 3 bed semi and charges them £3.50 ( its a depressed area). I said to him (his wife actually, he couldnt care less if his windows were cleaned or not) would you pay him £7 if he called once a month? yes of course I would, he does a decent job, I just cant understand how he makes a living charging £3.50.
Do you think this cleaner is working smart? He could do half the work for the same money, either he's too stupid to realise or he doesnt value what he does to earn his living. And I see so many "were only window cleaner threads", your selling yourselves short, Im not saying they will pay any price to have their windows cleaned ( the most my friends wife would pay is £10 a month, its still a hell of a lot more profitable than £3.50 a fortnight.)
I presume the majority on here are happy to do what they do, happy with the money they earn for the hours they work, great carry on.
In conclusion, just because I dont move the pole up and down doesnt mean Im not entitled to an opinion on this forum.
My intentions with my posts is to try to offer the benefit of my experience to those who may be interested.
Mark
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Mark, you keep on posting, as I have no background of direct sales, and have already put some of your advice into practice (what you said earlier in this thread to me) and have got work at a better price. I priced with confidence, and priced not at window cleaning rate ;D
I trawl through the forum picking at info... like a circling vulture.... ;)
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Mark, you keep on posting, as I have no background of direct sales, and have already put some of your advice into practice (what you said earlier in this thread to me) and have got work at a better price. I priced with confidence, and priced not at window cleaning rate ;D
I trawl through the forum picking at info... like a circling vulture.... ;)
dale i have read this back and i think it was mick hay who told you to "price with confidence"
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So Mark, are you suggesting we double our prices and half our cleans?
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Leave him alone. Yes DJW and DJ Thorpe you've made some valid points but Mark (Davo) is a theorist. We've all got a few foibles.The way I read his situation is that he is trapped in a high paying job.
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Just probing, i'm no business man, i'll freely admit that- i'm still struggling in my first year but i'm open and honest about it. I've been strung along with rubbish advice on here from some members, so just like others to be honest and realistic too. There are one or two who have been cleaning a long time and know what it's like to struggle to build a round and battle with the weather etc They are the ones i like to listen to but they rarely post. ;)
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So Mark, are you suggesting we double our prices and half our cleans?
If your charging little money on a 2 week call cycle then I think you should seriously consider it.
Mark, you keep on posting, as I have no background of direct sales, and have already put some of your advice into practice (what you said earlier in this thread to me) and have got work at a better price. I priced with confidence, and priced not at window cleaning rate ;D
I trawl through the forum picking at info... like a circling vulture.... ;)
Dale it does work, not all the time, but the hits make up for the misses and then some. Im pleased you got good money for your time.
Like whacking in a huge price on an unsuspecting customer? - not practical if you want to keep them for return cleans in the future.
A huge price is a matter of opinion, to you £100 might be expensive for a pair of shoes, to someone else it the price they 're happy to pay.
I havent condoned charging £500 to clean a conservatory, merely stated there is middle ground. I think charging them the same hourly rate you clean windows at is a gross undersell of the value of the work.
Mark
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Just probing, i'm no business man, i'll freely admit that- i'm still struggling in my first year but i'm open and honest about it. I've been strung along with rubbish advice on here from some members, so just like others to be honest and realistic too. There are one or two who have been cleaning a long time and know what it's like to struggle to build a round and battle with the weather etc They are the ones i like to listen to but they rarely post. ;)
Well if your struggling get off your backside and go and get some work, go knocking knocking knocking. If youve got 3 days a weeks worth of work go and knock the days your not cleaning. If you already do a lot of door knocking and your not bringing in decent work then your doing something wrong.
If you want to tell me what you say and how you work I can give you some advice to rectify the problem. Door knocking isnt window cleaning, but its the bit that can make or break your business.
Mark
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I'm no business man is like saying you could never be a dad or someones father, but one day you are. You make the best fist of it you can. Whineing that Davo gives bad advice ain't gonna help, and looking to honest but poor WC's isn't going to help either. Take some responsibility for your own actions.
You are a businessman fact.
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Mark , I have read a few posts of yours and you are clearly good in the field of sales ! Just try a softer approach with your advice as it can come across as a tad harsh , which is a shame because I can see you want to help people on here . Regards jonah .
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I'll tell you why i'm no business man :) I'm too soft to hammer people for a simple job that i don't think is worth the money, like charging someone £400 to £500 to clean the dirt off their conservatory when it takes say two hours max. I don't like to charge £30 for a twenty minute clean of a four bed house. It's not a case of "getting off my backside" - it takes time to build a business, compact it and sort it.
Mr sol, you don't seem to be any better than me at it or any more succesfull in your field so i can't see much useful advice there either. The way to make money in my opinion is to be ruthless and uncaring - something i'm not. I'm not interested in making a fortune (strange though it may seem) i'm quite happy just to make a living, not bothered about retiring in a hurry have plenty to live on at the moment. So in your eyes i'm a little odd but hey that's the way i am.
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The problem to me when i run out of work is not so much the money but the sheer boredom of having nothing to do hence i'm not looking forward to retirement (i'll be bored witless).
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About the giving of advice, yes I'd lke to give Alex Ferguson a few tips, and who couldn't have done a better job than almost any England Manager.
Ryan air run a a no frills cheapest flights airline and have a strategy to secure the secondary locations across europe. Harley Davidson motorbikes aren't as fast or technically advanced as Japanese ones but they sell for more money. Currys and carpet right have large retail park locations, dominoes Pizza prefers the high street.
The point I'm trying to make is there isn't a right or a wrong way to conduct a business, and the great thing about being in business is that you are allowed to get things wrong, to make mistakes.
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There are couple of differences between us, one is that you use my being the same or no better than you as an insult.
The way to make money has nothing to do with ruthless and uncaring, that is your subjective opinion, and unfortunatly that is all you really listen to .
The factual way to make money or create wealth is to find a way of adding value to a product or service and then tell people about it.
It really is that simple.
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Mr Sol, insult? what are you on? You have a similar van you do the same job the same way you have a similar customer base - how can that be an insult?
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Ewan, an example of me being a bad business man : i have picked up customers and priced them too high i.e. a tiny terrace house for four bed detatched (in my area) money. Rather than take the money every month and boast on here how brilliant my prices are, i have dropped the price on the second clean to ease my concience (doddery old lady on her own) - bad business obviously. But it makes me feel better to do that.
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And what are you doing now if not boasting?
You didn't listen to a word Ewan said, you merely re emphasised what you said earlier.
Ewan said add value, I say Add Value, Davo says add value, it just that we all say it differently.
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Mr sol, i just told you i'm a bad business man, hardly boasting is it? ::)
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Ewan, yes i can agree with your post for the man wanting to sell his house, even i would do the same thing and have done in the past. It's a golden opportunity to make money - a one off clean needed in a hurry and you'll probably not see him again. I do end of tenancy cleans too - you don't know or even meet the customer, the money comes out of the tennants deposit - great.
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DJW you definately dont listen, noones telling you to charge £500 to clean a conservatory, just dont do 2 hours work at the same rate you charge for window cleaning.
You do whatever you want, if you want to work for a £5 an hour carry on , but dont come moaning that things are tough. Get out there and get more customers, that is THE KEY to success providing you charge sensible money.
Mark
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Mr sol, you don't seem to be any better than me at it or any more succesfull in your field so i can't see much useful advice there either. The way to make money in my opinion is to be ruthless and uncaring - something i'm not. I'm not interested in making a fortune (strange though it may seem) i'm quite happy just to make a living, not bothered about retiring in a hurry have plenty to live on at the moment. So in your eyes i'm a little odd but hey that's the way i am.
Do you think a very successful cleaner whos been in the business 20 years is gonna give you some magic secret thats going to turn things arround? I think your going to be dissappointed.
Theres no magic secret, except work hard AND SMART.
Mark
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Davo i listen a lot, i don't have to agree with your theories on how to make a fast buck. I have enough people trying to do that with their continuous phone calls thanks. It's up to me how i run my business at the end of the day, i've stated my lack of business skills - i know where i'm going wrong (in your eyes) but overall i'm happy with my lot. :)
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Davo i listen a lot, i don't have to agree with your theories on how to make a fast buck. I have enough people trying to do that with their continuous phone calls thanks. It's up to me how i run my business at the end of the day, i've stated my lack of business skills - i know where i'm going wrong (in your eyes) but overall i'm happy with my lot. :)
Theyre not theories, they are proven ways of increasing the profit your business can make, not just window cleaning but virtually any business. As for a fast buck, if you want to make a fast buck I think youve chosen the wrong business, yes I agree its upto you how you run your business, but you seem to do a lot of moaning for a man whos contented.
Mark
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so why did you choose this business then
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Moaning? i'm just questioning some of your business theories your so intent on pushing on this forum. It just gets under my skin a little because i don't happen to agree with all of them. Why can't i be allowed to voice my opinions too?
Part of what makes this forum interesting and humorous is when people post of having a bad day, making mistakes getting things wrong we all do it. What makes it less interesting are when people brag of their high earnings, perfect work and think they know it all. :D
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Because its not glamourous, its safer and more accessible than it used to be, the rates arent bad, and theres a great deal of plastic out there that needs cleaning.
Mr Sol is quite right when he says Im trapped in a good job, i couldnt afford to go on the tools, I wont tell you my income cos that doesnt matter all I will say is that it costs me over £3,000 a month to stay level.
Mark
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Moaning? i'm just questioning some of your business theories your so intent on pushing on this forum. It just gets under my skin a little because i don't happen to agree with all of them. Why can't i be allowed to voice my opinions too?
You wont agree with any of them, you think profit is a dirty word. You said it yourself, you need to be ruthless and uncaring. I dont think you know how far from the truth that statement is.
Also you question the advice I give, tell me its nonsense then admit your doing no good, well the way your working at the moment isnt breaking any pots is it.
Mark
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"TRAPPED IN A GOOD JOB" oh for christs sake,my heart bleeds for you mate,really it does ::) if you dont like your job then pack it in,as for "needing" 3k a month,do you need it or is that just what you want,most people can trim a good percentage off their outgoings if they make a few sacrifices.
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The way i'm working is probably how most on here work judging py the posts i read and the fellow cleaners i talk to. I said i didn't agree with some of your ideas and explained my side of things, who are you to decide how i am doing? I can only think you are some kind of salesman anorak or failure in your field to want to spend your time on a wndowcleaners forum.
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Right, off to bed, going to dream of consevatory cleans - night all. :-* :-*
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Wow this thread is going on & on...... ;)
LJ your right Mick did tell me to price with confidence on this thread :-[, but to be fair Davo told me the same in the Fascia/Soffit thread from a few days ago. My fault I got them mixed up. :-\
With Davo/Mark I pick out what I need, which is were I think he is coming from. I really don't care what he does, but if I can use it (which surely is the point of the forum) then I will consider it then put it into practice.
Pick out what is applicable to our business...... to be fair I have already benefitted pricewise with some of the stuff he & Mick said. ;D
I would not be surprised if Mark also posts on other trade's forums... do you Mark?
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"TRAPPED IN A GOOD JOB" oh for christs sake,my heart bleeds for you mate,really it does ::) if you dont like your job then pack it in,as for "needing" 3k a month,do you need it or is that just what you want,most people can trim a good percentage off their outgoings if they make a few sacrifices.
Not looking for sympathy, i need over £3,000 per month to pay my bills. I enjoy what I do but a great deal of pressure to perform every week.The way i'm working is probably how most on here work judging py the posts i read and the fellow cleaners i talk to. I said i didn't agree with some of your ideas and explained my side of things, who are you to decide how i am doing? I can only think you are some kind of salesman anorak or failure in your field to want to spend your time on a wndowcleaners forum.
I havent decided how your doing, by your own addmission your struggling. Your reasoning for dissagreeing doesnt make sense, eg".... so I should double my price and halve my call frequency" "....I dont want to charge £500 for 2 hours work" who has told you to do that? The £500 cleaning rate was primarily designed to illustrate that you can charge a customer £100 + for a clean without ripping them off.
You have a basic flaw in your ability to read what is actually being said, as for being an anorak, ill buy one on monday.
Dale I dont post on any other trade forums.
Now to try and put an end to this thread if any established and successful window cleaners think im talking nonsense on what ive posted please post and I shall shut up ( providing you can justify why Im wrong with valid reasoning)
Mark
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To me it's like my dad analogy. To say I'm a bad dad, hopeless at it, i don't provide money care or support. I haven't got time for my son, but I'm still as good as most dads on the dads forum.
Then this is used as justification...
Because I'm a bad dad and have admitted it ,it's okay for me to go on being one, and besides all the people giving me Dad advice like Mr Sol and Davo are crap dads too.
Advice is advice. Should I tell Ryan air to put their prices up because they'd make more money? Dominoes to move to cheaper out of the way premise's to save money?Would they listen? Would it make me a bad person?
If Richard Branson's Virgin moved into window cleaning they would get a team of experts in the field who know the industry such as Ian Lancaster, Trevor Knight, and Dave St Ives (as an example), get someone else to provide the bulk of the large investment needed and only provide a small amount themselves while retaining overall control.
If RB wen't skint and had to knock a round up from scratch he would do all the obvious things, but then he would set about adding value. He would do this by going hot, electric reel, and superior impactfull marketing.(A bit like me actually ;D)
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Blimey, Sol are you on drugs? hallucinating? chill out man, it's another day today start another post or something. ;D
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To me it's like my dad analogy. To say I'm a bad dad, hopeless at it, i don't provide money care or support. I haven't got time for my son, but I'm still as good as most dads on the dads forum.
Then this is used as justification...
Because I'm a bad dad and have admitted it ,it's okay for me to go on being one, and besides all the people giving me Dad advice like Mr Sol and Davo are crap dads too.
Advice is advice. Should I tell Ryan air to put their prices up because they'd make more money? Dominoes to move to cheaper out of the way premise's to save money?Would they listen? Would it make me a bad person?
If Richard Branson's Virgin moved into window cleaning they would get a team of experts in the field who know the industry such as Ian Lancaster, Trevor Knight, and Dave St Ives (as an example), get someone else to provide the bulk of the large investment needed and only provide a small amount themselves while retaining overall control.
If RB wen't skint and had to knock a round up from scratch he would do all the obvious things, but then he would set about adding value. He would do this by going hot, electric reel, and superior impactfull marketing.(A bit like me actually ;D)
Good post that,lots of things to think about.