Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Zac Nicholson on May 10, 2007, 08:04:42 am

Title: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 10, 2007, 08:04:42 am
Hi, i'm new to this site, but need some direction.

I bought some window cleaning work last year off a guy who retired. He said it would make me £100 per day over 3 days and I could expand.

Now i'm not slow, I window cleaned 15 years ago part time, so I know what i'm doing.

The problem is the work is well underpaid. Working 9 am till 5 I can only get through about £60.

I can live off £300 per week but its proving hard work getting through the work and doing my head in at £60 per day.

What should I do?
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 10, 2007, 08:15:10 am
how much work do you have?

you need to put it up so you can earn what you want
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 10, 2007, 08:25:20 am
I have about £1200, and get through it in 4 weeks. That is unless it rains.
Thankfully April has been dry.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: a-r window cleanin on May 10, 2007, 08:36:31 am
Canvass for more customers and put your current prices up.
I use towork my guts out for about £70 a day so I got a wfp and canvassed like mad. I delivered leaflets and door knocked every minute I was not cleaning windows and that was feb this year now I have no room for more customers and will not take on any more work unless it is more money then I get now.
Dont give up just get canvassing
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 10, 2007, 08:44:36 am
Should I raise my prices first, as I need the money, but have no spare time.?
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Clear Vision on May 10, 2007, 08:56:04 am
Up your prices by £1 on every house. That will give you a couple of hundread extra a month. Then canvas more work and quote high. If you get it thats a bonus. Then you could start to drop your worst jobs.

Just an idea
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: need a cleaner on May 10, 2007, 08:56:48 am
Im fairly new on the wc side of things but that would seem the way to go for me, as it would solve 2 prob at the same time, it would increase the revenue and would create you some extra time as some clients are bond to leave, but i would do it in stages, ex 1 week at the time and only moving to the next1 once the first was stable.

Just my 2 cents ::)
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 10, 2007, 08:57:41 am
what are the average prices foe houses then,

if they are low that could be could be your problem,

how long have you had the clients and when was the last price increase,

also do you do frames and sills, if you do say i do all of this at no extra charge for x amount, and i havnt put them up in so much time, i would like to put them up 1-5pounds depending on what you can get about with

but if you dont do them increase the price and say you will do the frames and sills, bit more work involved but youll earn more moeny
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 10, 2007, 08:58:44 am
I've made a decision!!

I've printed a note to all my customers and doubled ALL the prices.

looking at this forum, i'm well under any way. I should now make over £100 a day and double my income.

I've said that in order to continue I have no choice but to increase the price.

I'm now going out to post them all.

Thanks
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on May 10, 2007, 08:59:36 am
If your going reasonably fast you should be getting £100 easy maybe £150 especially on those hours.

Print a letter explaining the reason for the price rise, in the letter explain to them that the new price is still very low in comparison to other window cleaners in the area, say that you can only honor this new increased price for existing customers and that new customer have an even higher price. If need be let them have a month to think things over.  Give out the letter and tell each one in person as well. 

All so put in the letter other reasons for the price increase.  Maybe their prices haven't gone up in years where fuel, rent, ect have.

You will loose a few but you should still have a round that is worth more than it was and hopefully you won't be working as long.

Simon.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on May 10, 2007, 09:00:58 am
Nice one, stick to your guns.

you wont regret it

Dave
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on May 10, 2007, 09:02:20 am
Now that's going some.

Let us all know how you get on.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: M & C Window Cleaning on May 10, 2007, 10:00:29 am
Hi Nicho,
Many years ago I purchased a round from a guy that reckoned he could get through £100 worth of work between 9am and 3pm working on his own.
First time we did it two of us working together couldn't get through £80 working 8.30am - 5.30pm with no break. At the time I was doing £80 a day on my own.
I fretted about what to do as I'd paid good money for this round and I didn't want to throw it away. In the end I made a similar decision to you. I made a general increase of 50% and by the time I'd done them a couple of times I was up to my usual £80/day.
I also had to 'educate' the customers to my way of working and pricing as the previous chap had priced everyting exactly the same. Leaded, Georgian, UPVC - Ali - Wood frames and with some he was even cleaning the frames as well, all for the same money.

Out of about 140 houses I lost about a dozen, but I picked up more than I lost. Most of the customers knew the previous chap was dirt cheap and were expecting it. Judging from their comments I think many of them would have accepted a 75% increase.

Turned into quite a nice round. Some years on I sold it when I didn't need it as the young lad working with me moved. Recently discovered another pal of mine is now working it.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: matt on May 10, 2007, 10:21:58 am
start by putting them up £1

thats a few mor quid in your pocket

then get door knocking for more work, the houses inbetween the houses you do are ideal, no travelling, put a nice price in, as you have nothing to lose, you dont have the work, so any more at good prices are a bonus

Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 10, 2007, 10:55:03 am
Just finished posting note to about 1/4 of my customers. (Local ones first)

most were not in thankfully.

One woman came rushing out waving the note. "Oh dear" i thought.

"It's about time isn't it. Malc never put his price up in 8 years. We were worried we would loose you because I cant see how you make a living"

WOW wasn't expecting that!

She wanted to give me her friends address to go there as well, so I explained that for new customers the price would be more expensive again. Not a problem she recons!

I think the guy worked on the basis of 30p per window (each ladder move) what should I charge for new ones?
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: matt on May 10, 2007, 11:03:00 am
i started off pricing 50 p per ladder move ( this was cheap )

i now price more ( though im WFP upstairs, so no more ladders ) , sometimes 75p, sometimes £1

Im of the opinion that when i price a job, i havent got it to start with, so price a nice price and if you get it, its a great bonus

the new prices you give are the prices that will earn you more then your 60 quid a day, so price well

Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: matt on May 10, 2007, 11:04:14 am
oh and you will also find that most customrs who want a regular window cleaner understand we all need to make a living, they know EVERYTHING has gone up, so we pay more for everything, so that means we need to put our prices up , thats life, and most accept it

Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: a-r window cleanin on May 10, 2007, 11:31:08 am
£1 per hole in the wall min I rekon.
Charge more for bay windows and doors etc
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 10, 2007, 01:01:47 pm
Should I invest in a Water Fed Pole as well?
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on May 10, 2007, 01:03:28 pm
80p to a £1 for a ladder stand and a lot more if it's leaded or a frame wipe.

I think some will say that thats too cheap.

You already have a full round so price high and if you don't get it it's not a loss.

Simon
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on May 10, 2007, 01:08:23 pm
I would wait for all your work to settle down before making a move like that.  WFP is great, but your going to double the prices and then change you method of working, I think you'd be asking for trouble.

Let a few cleans go by at the new prices and research about wfp and then make the jump if you want to.

Simon
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Paul Coleman on May 10, 2007, 01:15:26 pm
I've made a decision!!

I've printed a note to all my customers and doubled ALL the prices.

looking at this forum, i'm well under any way. I should now make over £100 a day and double my income.

I've said that in order to continue I have no choice but to increase the price.

I'm now going out to post them all.

Thanks

Doubling the prices eh?  Even if they are worth double, that still takes some guts.  I suppose the way to look at it is that even if you lose half your customers (which I doubt), you will still break even on your total turnover.  Additionally, the ones remaining will be priced OK and you will have plenty of spare time to seek more, better paying work.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Dave Turley on May 10, 2007, 01:18:48 pm
nicho, you've got some guts, fair play to you

for every underpriced customer you lose, this gives you time to take on another higher priced customer. so each one that says "no way" is a move forward.

good luck to you!     :)
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 10, 2007, 03:53:16 pm
Just posted some more. Had a couple say it was too much and not to bother calling again.

Met a fellow window cleaner while getting petrol. he has a Water Fed Pole system in his van and is upgrading this weekend. Buying a bigger van and getting bigger tanks and stuff, dont really understand it.

He recons he can earn £200 a day on his own, say's he nearly doubled his income trad!!

He's offerd to sell his old stuff. I'll pay it off in a few weeks. He said he has work comming out of his ears and may let me have some of that as well.

I'm going round to see him later tonight.

Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 10, 2007, 06:07:34 pm
If I bought his stuff off him, should I pay for the work?
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: AuRavelling79 on May 10, 2007, 10:19:42 pm
Probably.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 10, 2007, 10:34:51 pm
but at the same time dont get studpid.

i always hear of people saying price high,

but their is a knack. listen out for words like,


wehavnt been able to find a window cleaner, the windows are filthy, are you regular, i got your number from somewhere,when can you come.


these people who give little clues seem to not mind paying a bt extra

today priced a masonette, 4 windows on the front, just double ones, should take more than 2min each, and 3 round the back should take more than 6min, and a door another min. that 15mins £12

with that i can earn £30ph which im happy with and still talk to the cleint, and i dont have to work my butt off.

and also no offence but women seem to pay a bit extra, dunno if its something to do with a desire to shop, but men are more tight

So what im basically saying take your time in pricing talk to the client so they like you, and so you can judge them, and price accordingly, you wont ever look back
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Biscute on May 10, 2007, 10:39:28 pm
were ru from? 300 pound a week isnt a bad wage, but invest in a WFP it is a great excuse to up your prices.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: macmac on May 10, 2007, 10:41:46 pm
but at the same time dont get studpid.

i always hear of people saying price high,

but their is a knack. listen out for words like,


wehavnt been able to find a window cleaner, the windows are filthy, are you regular, i got your number from somewhere,when can you come.


these people who give little clues seem to not mind paying a bt extra

today priced a masonette, 4 windows on the front, just double ones, should take more than 2min each, and 3 round the back should take more than 6min, and a door another min. that 15mins £12

with that i can earn £30ph which im happy with and still talk to the cleint, and i dont have to work my butt off.

and also no offence but women seem to pay a bit extra, dunno if its something to do with a desire to shop, but men are more tight

So what im basically saying take your time in pricing talk to the client so they like you, and so you can judge them, and price accordingly, you wont ever look back


I would agree with that totally alex. works for me too.

tony
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 10, 2007, 10:42:56 pm


He recons he can earn £200 a day on his own, say's he nearly doubled his income trad!!



he can

thats not hard you only need to work from 8-4 to earn that and more comfortably

just got to stick at it though
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 11, 2007, 08:12:42 am
I have agreed to buy his equipment, he will fit it for me in my van Saturday and show me how to use it.

I suppose I will need to tell my customers.

£200 a day here I come ;D
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: SherwoodCleaningSe on May 11, 2007, 08:27:30 am
How much is the deal Nicho?

Must admit you do have some Guts, good on you.

Took me 6 years to decide to go wfp.

Simon.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 11, 2007, 08:54:06 am
A bit less than 1k for everything, inc about £500 worth of work he doesn't want. His work is due this week so i can do it first and work out how I should be doing my own work.

How much is the deal Nicho?

Must admit you do have some Guts, good on you.

Took me 6 years to decide to go wfp.

Simon.

Not guts, I just make quick decisions.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 13, 2007, 05:57:50 pm
Vans been fitted out yesterday. IBC tank half full with water. Start work with pole on his work tomorrow.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Clive McDonald on May 13, 2007, 08:40:07 pm
I think you've dropped lucky, good luck. From your very first post I thought you'd been stitched up, so I am glad that things have balanced out for you.
You are obviously a grafter. Persistence is the key.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 14, 2007, 05:30:54 pm
I can't believe how quick WFPing is, had an great day. (Not saying how much as some seem to get upset)
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 14, 2007, 05:32:28 pm
I can't believe how quick WFPing is, had an great day. (Not saying how much as some seem to get upset)

187 by any chance?
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: r4g1t on May 14, 2007, 05:33:11 pm
I can't believe how quick WFPing is, had an great day. (Not saying how much as some seem to get upset)

we only get upset when you call us names
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 14, 2007, 05:34:31 pm
I can't believe how quick WFPing is, had an great day. (Not saying how much as some seem to get upset)

we only get upset when you call us names

we?

i like being called names, like sweetie, darling, arr they make me feel loved and warm inside
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 14, 2007, 05:34:34 pm
I can't believe how quick WFPing is, had an great day. (Not saying how much as some seem to get upset)

187 by any chance?

No
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 14, 2007, 05:36:13 pm
I can't believe how quick WFPing is, had an great day. (Not saying how much as some seem to get upset)

we only get upset when you call us names

Could you quote any references please, I think you are mixing me up with someone else.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 14, 2007, 05:37:44 pm
I can't believe how quick WFPing is, had an great day. (Not saying how much as some seem to get upset)

187 by any chance?

No


No what then?
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 14, 2007, 05:48:43 pm
Look I just had a good day, stop bullying.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: NWH on May 14, 2007, 05:50:42 pm
The first of many mate.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Paul Coleman on May 14, 2007, 05:52:52 pm
I can't believe how quick WFPing is, had an great day. (Not saying how much as some seem to get upset)

we only get upset when you call us names

Could you quote any references please, I think you are mixing me up with someone else.

You modified your post.  I replied to this thread and my post was deleted even though I didn't get involved in the name calling.
My post said - "and that is just the beginning" after you stated your turnover for the day.  I won't quote any numbers though as you seem to have gone shy about it.  :)

However, the guy you bought from was quite correct that £200 is possible in a day.  To do that day in day out you need to build the work up though.  I've exceeded £200 a number of times but I'm not saying how often and by how much.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Zac Nicholson on May 14, 2007, 05:56:22 pm
I'm going!

Good Luck
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 14, 2007, 05:57:33 pm
200 should be your daily target, with wfp that shouldn't really be an issue, i earned that today with a few hickups, all depends what you want from work really, my mentality is when im there i work, not faff around, just want to earn as much in as little time
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Paul Coleman on May 14, 2007, 06:08:37 pm
200 should be your daily target, with wfp that shouldn't really be an issue, i earned that today with a few hickups, all depends what you want from work really, my mentality is when im there i work, not faff around, just want to earn as much in as little time

Yes I agree.  I could do £200+ every day if I went out canvassing more, dropped the poorer paying work and generally worked at it harder.  I am finding it a bit different at 50 to when I was 19 Alex.  The muscles aren't as elastic as they were 30 years ago.  Even so, my goal is to be doing that every day that I choose to work by next Spring.  I do like a bit of time off as well  though and WFP has given me better income and more time off too.  I haven't done a great deal over the past ten days but I am now approaching a busier 4 week spell for me (I do a 6 weekly cycle).  Really, I do need to fill in some more gaps in my work.  The trouble is though that as I get better work in, I drop the poorer work before filling those gaps.  The result is earning a bit more with a bit more time off.  I have about 40 less customers than a year ago but earn more money from them.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 14, 2007, 07:02:44 pm
yeah i know what you mean, it takes alot of work to fill that gap, but i think its also about pricing it right

mike charges £20 for the same style house i live in down the road. i would only charge £12 if i was doing it myself. maybe £15 for an absolutely cheeky quote.

so it does come down to pricing alot of the time
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Paul Coleman on May 14, 2007, 07:26:55 pm
yeah i know what you mean, it takes alot of work to fill that gap, but i think its also about pricing it right

mike charges £20 for the same style house i live in down the road. i would only charge £12 if i was doing it myself. maybe £15 for an absolutely cheeky quote.

so it does come down to pricing alot of the time

I did have a chat with Mike about pricing a few years ago.  We both happened to be driving into MacDonald's at West Green (guess we've both got bad taste  ;D ) .  It's taken a while but I've gradually come around to his way of thinking.  I used to think of being turned down on price as failure.  These days, I realise that it's just fine.  If I get turned down half the time that's OK because I only want work that pays well now.
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 14, 2007, 07:31:54 pm
and i tend to find that he gets all his work, and me too, especially if you have an add and they phone up from that, i only recently started on my own, and went out with the idea, that if it takes me a bit longer to build up my round because i want the prices i want then fair enough, i have only had a few turn me down because i was too expensive

today i picked up two new jobs, one was a house i used to clean for £9 they recommended me  to their friends  and asked for a reduction so i said ok. anyways they moved out, new lady in, charged her £13 for same amount of work, now mike would probably  have said 15-20 but that's him, im happy with that, and if they don't want it done fair enough,

but if you go with the right attitude you come out tops
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on May 14, 2007, 07:49:43 pm
Do you think we gave him the help he needed ?
Title: Re: £60 a day, need help!
Post by: Alex Wingrove on May 14, 2007, 07:51:24 pm
i think we are continuing to give him help needed, help all about mike and pricing windows and stuff

dont you agree dave?